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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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I found an MDX at a dealer that was marked sold and they would only let me look at it, not drive or open it up. That was the exact correct thing to do. I then found two sitting on a lot at another Tennessee dealer and was able to buy it for MSRP within a couple of days. There are dealers that are good to work with, but unfortuately there are many that are exactly as you describe. That is truly too bad.
Maybe when the Pilots arrive at Honda dealers it will free up some MDXs for you to still consider. While it does not walk on water, it is an awesome vehicle and truly a great driving experience.
Good Luck,
MIKEinTN
Acura is letting it's dealers do anything they damn well please because "there's money in them thar hills". Acura, like most other's is letting a little short term pain in for what they think is long term gain. They figure that demand for the MDX will just keep going and going as it seems to be a great vehicle that's NOT overpriced. Little do they realize that everyone's got their limits and Acura has definitely exceeded mine. You'd have to give me one now (not sell it to me for MSRP). I don't begrudge anyone making money, but there's a right way and a wrong way. Personally, I'll give my business to someone who earns it, not tries to $%#%^ me for it. If Acura doesn't police it's bad dealers, I'm not giving them the satisfaction of getting my business, even at a "good" dealer. Call it guilt by association.
Rant over,
metmdx
The front passenger side airbag is hooked to an sensor that controls its deployment but I do not believe it disables the front passenger airbag.
My wife really likes the MDX but I refuse to pay MSRP for ANY car since I don't believe the dealer brings value equivalent to 10-12% of my money. Keep in mind, the 10-12% margin each consumer pays doesn't even include any back-end rebates the dealers receive directly from the manufacturer. Do you really think the dealer provides that amount of value? Where is that amount of value? The only time I visit the dealer with no fee is up front when purchasing the car to test drive the vehicle and obtain information. Most Acura dealers don't even keep a MDX on the lot for test drives (kudo's to those that do...). Any time I visit the dealership under warranty, the dealers repair costs are covered by Acura. Outside of warranty, I pay the dealer out of pocket. Besides, Acura makes great cars and chances are you will never see the dealer again (except for your next car) after you pick up your new car.
Don't get me wrong, car dealers do provide some value and am willing to pay what I consider a reasonable price for their services (up to $1,000 over invoice), but I refuse to pay the margin they are asking for the MDX today.
When it comes down to it, this isn't an Acura dealer issue but actually an Acura manufacturing issue. If Acura only provides a dealer with a small number of cars each month, the dealer must charge more for each to maintain their profitability. I know that an Acura dealer would be willing to accept my $1,000 over their invoice cost if Acura would allocate them enough vehicles. Until then, or until the MDX is no longer an attractive option, the market will have to pay higher prices and I will not be one of them.
If Acura can't remedy their supply/demand issue within the next year, then they are truly guilty of playing the limited production/limited allocation game which will leave a terrible taste in my mouth and push me away from them for good. This type of game is a short term strategy and causes very little brand loyalty in the long run.
After purchase, we always got to fill out a survey form and send it to American Honda.
As far as their service department goes, once again, I doubt any other dealership could have made me happier. Even with $16 oil change, they wash the car (not a fancy touch, but still something not expected). After each service, there is a followup call to find out if I was satisfied.
It is interesting to note that similar practices are not used by Acura dealerships (BTW, this dealership also sells Acura at a different location). I would assume however that American Honda would have a policy in place to get feedback from buyers like it has been in my case.
As far as production and the limit goes, Honda has limited facility where they can produce these vehicles. Honda targets to sell 500 American Odyssey in Japan, and no MDX. Obviously, they don't see a market for these large vehicles in Japan, and hence producing them makes sense locally where the demand lies.
I don't know, but Acura may be targeting 50-60K sales per year for the MDX, which is about what Lexus does with RX300 (and MB with ML). That is probably a sales target, taking into account the current production capacity, and any possibility of drop in demand in the future. It is just that MDX has been a hot seller, and after Pilot arrives, some people will make a move to the lesser model. And that should relax MDX demand quite a bit. Now if Honda were to make 100K MDXs per year now, and then launch Pilot, they may end up having inventory trouble. One of the business practices these companies use is low inventory time. A lot of things has to be considered to make these decisions I would think.
Read about lots of complains for Acura salesman attitude, service, and markup for MSRP, I feel really sorry for Acura who used to be a first class Japanese car manufacturer who built great cars, treated their customers well, and also service their cars well.
I am a royalty Acura owner since 1993 I remember correctly, and I have owned 4 Acura cars which I still own a 00 RL now. When I was shopping for a car end of last year, I was also thinking about the MDX. I was lucky enough to be able to have a test drive, and the drive was quite pleasant. But I ended up with buying a 02 Lexus ES instead because the following reasons,
1. The dealer were not willing to negotiate the price. I think the dealership is making too much money from you if you pay MSRP.
2. The interior material is cheap looking. Acura is a luxury brand, and they should not compromise on build quality. Check out the Infiniti QX4, Lexus RX300, or BMW X5, they are using higher graded materials.
3. The exterior was not impressive IMO, I liked the RX300 and BMW X5 better. Although the MDX does have more interior space. I think the next generation of RX300 will address the space issue.
4. The service and warranty are not as good as Lexus.
The same thing happened when the 00 TL was out on the market, I didn't buy it instead I leased the RL with great lease offer. If when my RL lease is expired, and Acura is still doing whatever they did to the TL & MDX, then they will lose a loyalty customer for a very long time.
The price was MSRP but there was no trying to sell add-ons. We did not like to Base model we ordered (wind noise). No problem We'll be on the list for the next one. Oh would you like to try the Demo again for comparison. OK not base model but touring with nav. and it was White
Was I surprised when we took it out, only 25 miles on it. Almost no wind noise. All our test drives were 25 miles or more. Never ever had bad experience with staff. We BOUGHT it, it was a little more than we wanted but what the heck.
So for all the bad experience's I've read about for a long time on these pages. Good one's can be had. Debra at Bell Acura in Phoenix deliver's an Easy buying experience for a couple that are hard sell's and take a looong time to make up our minds. She also added wheel locks and two extra keys that I wanted. A very nice experience
the plant in Alabama will NOT bould mdx's, it will be only for odysses and pilots. Production for those will still be only increased 5 to 10 % a year. targets for mdxs will be 45 - 50000.
Secondly, 1000 over invoice is not enough profit for anything that costs 35000 to make. If your investment person made you 3% on anything he'd fired tomorrow. most people have no idea what it takes to run a dealership moneywise. Acura also does not do back end rebates or cut rate financing. The car is the car simply put. Acura priced the vehicle fairly against its competitors valuewise to keep all the haggling minimal.
As a salesman(who has an mdx on order), the same people who say they hate negotiating are the same ones who start to haggle as soon as you give them a price.
As for brand loyalty, Acura-Honda is strong in that department. Usually the people who object to Acura's way of doing business are not familiar with it.
The allocations have a lot to do with capacity, not playing any games. Besides would you want to buy a vehicle stacked up like firewood on some dealers lot? You would wonder why they weren't selling.
Now I do have to ask you, what is the right way for making money?
For everyone else:
1.Bad dealers give us a bad name. If you are having problems with treatment-not getting a big enough discount, but bad salespeople you can call the customer service #.
2.The colors are changing because of resale value. Too many of one color dates the car. Honda dropped the emerald green after 2001 on everything, not just mdxs
sorry, had to vent some. I'll check back if someone has any questions.
You may want to rethink this statement since I guarantee you it does not cost Acura $35,000 to make this vehicle. In addition, Acura makes their set profits at the dealer invoice price. $1,000 profit (approx 3%) from the consumer to the dealership is acceptable when combined with the additional 3% (6% total) dealer holdback they receive.
Please do not get me wrong, I am not saying that all Acura dealers should only charge $1,000 over invoice. I am saying that, being an educated consumer and good negotiator, they can afford to let a few out the door at this price to smart consumers (which are the minority) and still make a net profit from the sale.
The question to Honda/Acura is marketshare important to them? If so, they need to produce more to gain marketshare. They have an excellent vehicle with the MDX and ARE losing many sales due to their insufficient manufacturing capabilities.
Consider yourself nudged! ;-)
tidester
Host
SUVs
2.) How long do you have to work in an Acura Dealership before you can order a MDX for yourself? If its less than three weeks, maybe I'll take some vacation time and sign up with your crew.
tidester
Host
SUVs
Thanks.
With the MDX, you will not get the dismal reliability issues that have plagued the BMW. Even Consumer Reports has rated the 530's reliability as much worse than average. JMHO.....
The other problem with having both an MDX and Odyssey is that there are some similarities between the vehicles, though there's less parts duplication than some detractors have suggested. Nevertheless, some might prefer more variety in a pair of vehicles.
Don't know if a used 530 would be my first choice, though.
I'd have to agree with wmquan's post, above.
Vehicle purchase decisions are always based on priorities. Our priorities for a second vehicle are, in order, very high safety, practicality, and at least average reliability. Very high safety = in a sedan that rides lower than an SUV, side curtain airbags, excellent actual or validly expected crash test scores, stability control (preferrably full-range), and a company commitment to safety. We're willing to trade off some performance and even some reliability to get a higher level of safety (hence us willing to accept "just average" reliability).
Thus, at $38k-$40k, we'd probably buy an MB C-Class, BMW 3-series, or Audi A4 3.0. They meet the above requirements (though I think I'd wait for A4 reliability scores). I'd also consider a VW Passat W8, Lexus ES300, and an Infiniti G35 (but only if it scores well in crash tests). Especially since the C-class, 3-series, and A4 may not be big enough. If I had to make the decision today it'd be the C-class, unless we find it too small, in which case it'd be the Passat W8.
The current Acura TL-S wouldn't be considered because I don't think it's as safe as the other vehicles mentioned here -- though the upcoming redesign may change that (current version isn't great at emergency handling even with VSA, doesn't have side curtain airbags, and crash test scores aren't great). Too bad as it has terrific power.
BMW 3 and A4 3.0 are awesome but a tad to small, which is why I like the 530! Acura may be great, but no styling to the sedan!
To my surprise, they had one that just came in last night. I was so excited to get the opportunity to test drive a MDX because in the city where I live, there are no MDX's insight (we have 3 dealers within the city limits). The dealers are selling the SUV for MSRP. This was a Touring with Nav. However, typical of the dealer, $4000 of dealer installed accessories were installed. This makes the vehicle cost at $42,500 plus tax and license, ($46,000 out the door price).
The first thing that I noticed was the different color (compared to the body color) mud guards, body-side molding, and rear spoiler. They were all grey color and it looked hideous because I prefer body color exterior accessories. Well, I overlooked that for the moment because I was so excited to get behind the wheel and take off with the car.
Well, during city driving, I thought the power was average, which did not bother me that much. Furthermore, when I was trying to get on the freeway to test its acceleration, I was sooooo disappointed, I could barely catch up with freeway traffic and I floored the son of a b#%ch and it did not respond like the BMW 3.0 X5 I test drove last week.
Before I even test drove the vehicle, I was ready to write a check and drive the car home. Well, I walked away without the vehicle (and you all know how difficult it is to even get the opportunity to buy one).
I am now looking to test drive the Toyota Sequoia and see how a V8 will perform. Also, I will test drive the MB ML320.
I know that many of you like the MDX, but after this experience, I will have to look elsewhere for my SUV.
JMHO
Transpower
Stick with 1998s or newer; with a '98, you can get a factory certified one for $31-34k, depending on mileage. The Certified Previously Owned (CPO) Lexus warranty will cover it, bumper-to-bumper, until the odometer hits 100k or three years from the date you buy it, whatever happens first.
Starting in '98, the LS400 has a V-8, 290 horse, 5-speed auto trans, 27 mpg on the freeway, 20-21 mpg around town (have to use premium), incredible sound systems, the best quality materials in and out, and you'll be driving one of the finest cars ever made. Go with the '99 or '00 if your budget can handle it ('99s certified at $35-36k and '00s in the range of $37-39k or so).
Even private party, the original warranty will still cover most 99s and 00s - it's 4 years from date of original sale or 50k miles, whatever comes first.
Check out the first LS models on the road since 1990 - most of them still look great after 12 years. Many of the used LS are coming off leases and have been over-serviced by their owners. Also, by purchasing a used LS, you'll avoid the major depreciation hit you take in the first year on any new vehicle.
One problem you should also know - if you have a failure of any type not covered by a warranty -Lexus dealers and independent shops get to "four figures" ($xxxx) pretty quick...and they ain't shy about it.
So before you buy a new $40k car, go drive a used '98-to-'00 LS400. It's NOT a sports car like a BMW but if you're looking for the most bang-for-your-buck comfortable ride out there, it's worth checking into. Good luck!
low ball 88 - If the MDX wasn't quick enough for you, forget about the ML320. It has less power and less room, yet weighs more and costs more than the MDX. Oh yeah, so does the X5 3.0L. If you want speed, I think your shopping in the wrong aisle.
You desire the status of a luxury SUV.
You crave the rugged image of a utility vehicle.
You're embarrassed when Geo's beat you onto the freeway.
You feel inadequate when you "barely catch up with freeway traffic."
It is clear to me that the cure for your insecurity will not be found on a car lot...
JMHO
I am ready to buy an MDX, and am interested in the manufacturer's extended warranty. What are some options to buying instead of through the dealer? If you don't go through the dealer, but buy "on-line", is the coverage the same as if purchased from dealer? Any "recommendations" on reputable on-line sources?
Thanks for the input.
Believe it or not, my wife thinks the Lexus is more conspicous/flashy than the BMW!! I think the other way is true.
tidester
Host
SUVs
The X5 and the MDX both go from 0-60 in 8.1 seconds. So when you pay 40+ for the BMW with vinyl seats and no sun roof, we'll both have trouble passing the Metro on the highway.
Good luck.
Also, producing more does not gain market share, selling more does. Consequently, flooding the market will kill resale value and everyone who bought one will be ticked. Ever bought something and it went on sale a month after you bought it, and they wouldn't give you the credit? Bad feeling huh?
leokadia1: I cant tell you what I paid, its against company policy. I don't want it to be repo'd. I have sold Acuras for 5 years and probably 75 to 85 MDXs, so I know them inside and out. Working at a dealer 2 weeks might not work, especially if you have to wait. My wait is 2-3 months.
to crj2: if you get the warranty, get it from the dealer. Acuracare is the best. The outside vendors (internet, buying services, etc.) a lot of times will give the runaround paying claims. Our dealership stopped taking them because they will not pay. We had to take the last few claims health insurance style: you pay for your repairs and then go chase down the warranty company for reimbursement. They are a good thing because they are prorated back if you sell/trade before it is up, and transferable if you sell to a private party.
See you guys next time...
You want an import SUV - the MDX and X5 are both imports. Tie.
You want a luxury SUV - the BMW and MDX are both called luxury SUV's, but the BMW wins here.
You want utility - the X5's 54 cubic feet of cargo capacity is 13 cu. ft. less than that offered by the Honda CR-V. The MDX wins here.
You want performance - The X5 3.0L and the MDX both reach 60 MPH in about 8 seconds. Both too slow. Even for the 4.4i, BMW claims a 0-60 time of only 7.5 seconds. No winner.
If you truly want an import SUV that accelerates to 60 MPH in 7 seconds or less, and one that also offers luxury and real utility, there is only one vehicle on the market for you...
The Mercedes Benz ML55 - $65,000.
The nice thing about an SUV as your office is the room in it. If the lack of cargo room and some passenger room isn't an issue, an X5 breaks your price point somewhat but has a slightly more luxurious interior than the MDX and a sporty flair. The ML320 has good cargo room and can be bought for $500 over invoice in many parts of the country and is pretty close to $40k depending on how you equip it. Quality has always been its sore point but it's been slowly getting better.
Both the aforementioned vehicles are quite safe and have better-quality interior materials than the MDX. Not as luxurious as a 5-series or E-class (logical trade-off to keep the SUV's relatively affordable). E.g. the ML320 has nice materials but is still Teutonically cold, like a lot of German vehicles, but perhaps more so.
I'd think that clients would be more impressed with you in a BMW X5 (beautiful looking vehicle, in my opinion) or MB ML320 (even though I think it's on the south side of the aesthetic scale), than an Acura MDX or even a Lexus RX300 (which has a nice plush interior). While the MDX has nice convenience gadgets its interior isn't as plush as the other vehicles.
I hear you about the 3-series and A4 (and thus the C-class) being small. They're all excellent vehicles, and, while possessing light years more equipment, safety, performance, and engineering than a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic, have about the same amount of room for twice the price. BTW in answer to your question, you can buy a C240 very well equipped for under $40k, but the C320 gets pretty pricey, even compared to a 3-series.
For sedans, a solid-condition 5-series is a nice choice. Too bad I can't really recommend the Audi A6, which is somewhat north of $40k. Has great styling and a beautiful interior, but its crash test scores aren't super-impressive and there have been questions about its reliability. As others here have said, the Lexus sedans are strong candidates in this range too.
Unfortunately the ML320 won't provide the power you desire either. The Toyota Sequoia might because the V8 is very torquey. If not, then it's either the X5 or the ML500, which has great acceleration characteristics (as one might expect).
Curious that your dealer had gray body side molding. Acura's body side moldings are color-matched. The mudguards are not color-matched (painting doesn't help because of the flexible plastic used). My tailgate deflector IS color-matched -- www.hondacuraworld.com sold it for a discounted price plus $125 for a professional matched paint job. Much cheaper than buying the dealer-inflated accessories.
"BTW, MDX is not a SUV, it is consider a crossover vehicle between a car/minivan/stationwagon (JMHO). It lacks off road capabilities."
No doubt the definition of an SUV has blurred a lot. The ML320 is much more a true SUV than an MDX, the Land Rover Disco is more a true SUV than an ML320. That said, what today's SUV buyer expects doesn't fit the mold of a traditional SUV either. Most of today's SUV buyers rarely go off-road, and they don't tow too much. They look for the foul-weather capability and passenger/cargo utility that is found on many SUV's. The market just changes.
However, to a strong degree, the MDX is more SUV than the X5. A vehicle with less cargo room than a 5-series wagon doesn't have utility, and BMW reflects that by calling the X5 a Sport Activity Vehicle. E.g. the look of an SUV but really a tall sports sedan/wagon. I don't mean anything bad about it, I love the X5's looks, but I think the tradeoffs on it are pretty extreme.
Good luck on your continued vehicle search. The trick is always finding a vehicle that fits your priorities. If you can swing the purchase price, try an ML500 (heh, try it before you drive the ML320!). Volvo's SUV will be available with a twin-turbo engine and should also be a nice performer, though it won't be cheap.
Though for money in that range one can buy a Boxster or alternative sports cars or sedans and have a LOT more fun. I like power in an SUV too but I don't need one that goes 0-60 under 6 seconds.
If you want a good combination of speed and utility, it's hard to find fault with the MDX. The X5 doesn't hold a candle to the MDX in the area of utility, and it takes a $60K V-8 model to go noticeably faster.
BMW clearly states in it's marketing that the X5 is not an SUV. It's really just a tall 5 series wagon. You gain AWD traction and a high seating position but in return, you sacrifice acceleration (higher curb weight) and cornering ability (higher CG).
Personally, I'd rather own a 330i than an X5. Actually, I'd also rather own a TL-S, G35, C320, or an A4 too.
Oh well, to each his own.
Buy an AWD Aztek for about $22,000. Add a factory supercharger for $2500. $500 more for genuine walnut interior trim and voila, a half price BMW X5!