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The Stock Market and Investing

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    To quote Fat Tony from "The Simpsons" - 'Actually, you can really keep costs down when you don't pay for materials, or labor, or permits or... land'

    Maybe an "internet tax" would level the playing field B)
    ab348 said:

    I like how China subsidizes consumer-level exports. I can buy something on Amazon or ebay for $1.99 and it has free shipping from China via China Post. How does that make any sense?

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    You would think that after 8 years of Obama we would have been in great shape. I hardly think Trump caused all these troubles you guys are talking about in just one year.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Anyone else notice how people aren't talking much about the National Debt or how we will ever be able to tackle it? I guess we have bigger looming problems?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited April 2018
    Regarding 8 years, I can look at my 401K in November 08 compared to November 16 (not to mention local property values), and see something didn't go wrong. It could have gone better, but as we can all see via socio-economic issues, stock markets might not be the best measure of national health, in any way.

    45 isn't wrong that there are trade issues out there, especially or even primarily with China. However, the way to handle this issue is with talks and negotiations, handled like a mature responsible adult. As was said, China isn't dumb, nor is it scared - it can fight back. In such a fight, the real losers are normal consumers. Best case scenario, instability hurts the USD, which causes fuel prices to rise. Who suffers? Normal consumers, especially those in middle America who drive a lot.

    I am going to move off of the direct political babble, it gets tiring. We have more in common than different, not worth the headache. Not to mention, no matter who gets an election, we have the same issues. Same clowns (even when they claim to be anti-establishment/anti-"elite"), different suits.

    National debt, just kick the can down the road.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    Pretty bold statement from someone who likely watches FOX all day and thinks it isn't MSM. Successful as judged by who? She knows nothing about public education, has no real work experience nor relevant credentials, yet another one who would be nothing if not for family fortune. The legitimate first world doesn't depend on for-profit and Christian schools for primary education, you know, the first world kicking American butt in virtually all HDI. She's a joke, like virtually all of 45's appointees.

    If she wasn't a major contributor via being an heiress to a sketchy MLM fortune, she wouldn't have the job at all. She has stumbled and failed in every interview in her history in this job. Have you seen when people ask her anything? She's clueless.

    Yeah, those MI charter schools are looking great

    gagrice said:

    Fintail:
    Pretty bold statement about a person that has started some of the most successful private schools in Michigan. She has the same views on Charter schools as Obama's Ed secretary Arne Duncan. I think you are watching too much MSM.

    I don't have TV, gave it up when I retired in 2006. Charter schools are only as good as the people running them. Same as public schools. The Schools DeVos started are private and produce top of the class students. I am hoping she does what she was appointed to do. Get rid of the WORTHLESS department of education. By the way some of the top schools in San Diego are charter schools. Not tied to the Teachers Unions.


  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    PS, Fintail, those charter schools in Michigan are from long before DeVos became Sec of Ed. Even Rocky that hates her admits the schools she started are academically the best in Grand Rapids.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited April 2018
    There's some chance DeVos won't last through 45's term. Give her a few more interviews and she'll crack like an egg.

    I'm more worried about hucksters, shysters, and social regressives weaseling their way into public policy than teachers unions. Private profiteers involved in publicly funded social goods often go wrong.

    Given the performance of everything in Michigan, beating the local system might not take much. The aviation-themed school that her husband is involved with does not make much of a case - it could easily be an anomaly. I haven't seen any quantifiable data showing anything she is involved with is kicking butt, but I have seen plenty of data about the deficiency of charter schools in general. Charter schools are quite rare in my area and the schools here are generally highly rated.

    Michiganders are familiar with her, no doubt, I am sure Rocky is thrilled about her and that family overall
    gagrice said:


    I don't have TV, gave it up when I retired in 2006. Charter schools are only as good as the people running them. Same as public schools. The Schools DeVos started are private and produce top of the class students. I am hoping she does what she was appointed to do. Get rid of the WORTHLESS department of education. By the way some of the top schools in San Diego are charter schools. Not tied to the Teachers Unions.


  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited April 2018
    fintail said:

    I am going to move off of the direct political babble, it gets tiring.

    You can say that again.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    fintail said:

    I am going to move off of the direct political babble, it gets tiring.

    Yea, verily.

    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Let's take a little break..

    I'm sure we can all get our world views confirmed by watching a little cable news.. ;)

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    28,164 closing on the DOW 11/26/2019. My IRA loves this market. My wife's financial adviser said I should get out of cash and into the market a year ago. I bought 4 highly rated Fidelity Mutual Funds and sure glad I did. Best one FSCSX is up over 20% in less than a year.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Ditto on my Fidelity account, doing very nicely. Have also been dollar cost averaging on a couple stocks I've got and even though their monthly dividend amount has come down, still paying me each month which I like. Been a great run and hope it'll continue for awhile!

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My wife has a couple Jackson accounts that pay a little over 5%, with a guaranteed death benefit. The Jackson National Annuities drive our CPA crazy as they do not specify what is income or what came out of principal. We also have a good amount of BKN that pays a tax free dividend. Enjoy that Florida sunshine. My brother lives in Punta Gorda Isles south of Tampa. They are always trying to get us to come visit. Been a fairly cold winter here in Pahrump, so may take them up on it.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    My couple of stocks have dropped their dividend slightly, but still paying a decent one. Been doing so more dollar cost averaging and am very pleased so far. Now with a small wedding coming up, that extra income will be greatly appreciated!

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200

    My couple of stocks have dropped their dividend slightly, but still paying a decent one. Been doing so more dollar cost averaging and am very pleased so far. Now with a small wedding coming up, that extra income will be greatly appreciated!

    They've actually cut the dividend? Or, has the stock price gone up, so the current dividend is a smaller percentage yield?

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  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    They've actually cut the dividend. Have a couple of Reit's and one is paying $.16/share and the other $.17/share. One of them has a lot of shares and since it's price is pretty low right now, am dollar cost averaging every month or so so I keep some of the dividends and buy more shares with the rest. I want to have it to become like a small annuity in it's monthly payout if I can. A few years ago, they were both up in the $.24/share payout! But Reit's have to payout 90% of what they take in or so it seems.

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200

    They've actually cut the dividend. Have a couple of Reit's and one is paying $.16/share and the other $.17/share. One of them has a lot of shares and since it's price is pretty low right now, am dollar cost averaging every month or so so I keep some of the dividends and buy more shares with the rest. I want to have it to become like a small annuity in it's monthly payout if I can. A few years ago, they were both up in the $.24/share payout! But Reit's have to payout 90% of what they take in or so it seems.

    REITs and MLPs have to fluctuate, due to the rules you state. It's great for generating cash flow, but maybe not so much for total return.

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  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    At this point of my life, I'll be happy to take that cash flow monthly. I can either keep it and add it to my bank account, or, do some dollar cost averaging and increase the number of shares I own at a cheaper price overall. It all depends on what I feel like at that moment and what bills I could use that extra income for. Since I use 99% of it for retirement, that's where it goes. Still collecting a smallish hourly wage due to my part time gig at Enterprise plus I've also got my government retirement check and what little social security I do get to pay the monthly bills.
    I know at some point in the future I will want to retire again, so having this other avenue of income will come in very handy once those Enterprise checks no longer come. Figure it's best to put that 99% away for that rainy day we've all heard about!

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    LOL. Well, @kyfdx suggested I post here. I guess an attempt to bring a thread back from the dead. I think this post-COVID (current-COVID?) investing world is very very different.

    Anyway, I have some money to invest. Not really feeling the whole sub-1% savings and CD accounts. I read up on some interesting crowd-funding companies and thought I'd take a shot.

    One is lending folks money outright for whatever they need. Another is commercial real estate projects. The third is small business bonds.

    I don't necessarily want to lay out all the rules for each one, and there are more than one of each type of company out there. The investing sites I found all rated the ones I chose highly. Of course, who the heck knows how much advertising dollars come into play with those reviews. They actually cautioned against the bond one because the company behind it has yet to turn a profit and, therefore, could go under at any second.

    What I like about the former two is that I can actually pick and choose exactly where the money goes. So, for example, I can see that someone with a 700 credit score and $10k/mo income wants to consolidate debt with a $20k 3-yr loan and choose to give them some of my money in return for 8% interest. Of course, they say the trick is to diversify. Loan out $25/person over 200 loans so the defaults don't kill you.

    Anybody ever tried such an investment before?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    qbrozen said:

    LOL. Well, @kyfdx suggested I post here. I guess an attempt to bring a thread back from the dead. I think this post-COVID (current-COVID?) investing world is very very different.

    Anyway, I have some money to invest. Not really feeling the whole sub-1% savings and CD accounts. I read up on some interesting crowd-funding companies and thought I'd take a shot.

    One is lending folks money outright for whatever they need. Another is commercial real estate projects. The third is small business bonds.

    I don't necessarily want to lay out all the rules for each one, and there are more than one of each type of company out there. The investing sites I found all rated the ones I chose highly. Of course, who the heck knows how much advertising dollars come into play with those reviews. They actually cautioned against the bond one because the company behind it has yet to turn a profit and, therefore, could go under at any second.

    What I like about the former two is that I can actually pick and choose exactly where the money goes. So, for example, I can see that someone with a 700 credit score and $10k/mo income wants to consolidate debt with a $20k 3-yr loan and choose to give them some of my money in return for 8% interest. Of course, they say the trick is to diversify. Loan out $25/person over 200 loans so the defaults don't kill you.

    Anybody ever tried such an investment before?

    On-line platforms, I assume? Be ready, because most of my feedback is going to be negative.

    The problem with this sort of thing, is no one is really doing the due diligence on each investment. At the small amounts being requested, it just isn't feasible.

    Personal loans: Good credit score, but $20K of credit card debt (assuming, otherwise, why would you be willing to pay 8%?). This might be someone trying to get their spending habits/debt back on track. But, would I risk my money on someone that makes $120K/yr, but doesn't have any assets to secure a loan (HELOC, etc)? At a 10% default rate, you'll lose money, even if you spread it out.

    Commercial real estate: I haven't seen too many sites with crowd funding for this. I've seen specific project deals, but that would seem very, very risky. It seems the people that make money on commercial real estate are the contractors on new build projects, or the third owners, that scoop in at a reasonable price, after the first two go bankrupt. Locally, we have a company that creates $50 million funds to invest in commercial projects. Accredited investors only, with a $50K minimum investment. These are real pros running the fund, and while a couple of the funds have done well, there are others that haven't. I thought about this, but I didn't see enough upside to risk tying up my money for 8-10 years.

    Small business bonds? Just say no.

    If you are putting in $10K-25K that you can afford to lose, this is more like buying bitcoin, than actually investing. I know the low interest rates are killing those with extra cash. That's why we paid off our mortgage in January. The fund I was in went from 2.65% to 1.40% yield.

    The best alternative investment I've ever been in, was becoming a partner in an apartment complex. But, I was riding on the coattails of two real estate management pros, and one of them I would trust with everything I own. We sold that after 6.5 year, with a compounded return of about 17% annually. But, that was a large chunk of money, upfront.

    Obviously, I don't know your personal situation. But, if your earning are throwing off extra cash, I would up the 401K contribution. With tax rates so low, now, it would be best if you had a Roth 401K option.

    I get wanting to put cash to work. Since we sold the apartments two years ago, I've investigated dozens of investments. I'd get back into rental real estate, but the prices have gone nuts, and I really have no desire to be an actual landlord, and deal with the renters.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Stock market?

    Verizon (VZ). 4.1% dividend
    Abbvie (ABBV) 5.2% dividend

    Those are two really solid stocks, with good dividends

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I went through the personal loans site this morning and found very few loans I thought trustworthy. All debt consolidation, all A ratings, all 700+ credit. So, all in all, I threw $750 at it just to see what happens. There is a chance some won't fund either through lack of interest or they fail somewhere else in the approval process (per the site's disclosure).

    I may pull back out of the others only because folks are so negative about it. But, like I said, other online advisors have tried them and didn't have much to complain about.

    Thing is, the return doesn't look any better (or even worse) than a lot of ETFs. I've dropped a chunk of change into my Etrade account that I'll probably use for that purpose.

    The money is my inheritance. It isn't much, but it gives us some breathing room, and I'd like to see some growth from it. I'm not a 401k or IRA fan because I hate being restricted, and I don't think putting post-tax money there makes sense. I put enough in from my paycheck to benefit from the employer match. I also put 10% of my income toward the employee stock purchase plan. That has been doing very very well for me so far.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    qbrozen said:

    I went through the personal loans site this morning and found very few loans I thought trustworthy. All debt consolidation, all A ratings, all 700+ credit. So, all in all, I threw $750 at it just to see what happens. There is a chance some won't fund either through lack of interest or they fail somewhere else in the approval process (per the site's disclosure).

    I may pull back out of the others only because folks are so negative about it. But, like I said, other online advisors have tried them and didn't have much to complain about.

    Thing is, the return doesn't look any better (or even worse) than a lot of ETFs. I've dropped a chunk of change into my Etrade account that I'll probably use for that purpose.

    The money is my inheritance. It isn't much, but it gives us some breathing room, and I'd like to see some growth from it. I'm not a 401k or IRA fan because I hate being restricted, and I don't think putting post-tax money there makes sense. I put enough in from my paycheck to benefit from the employer match. I also put 10% of my income toward the employee stock purchase plan. That has been doing very very well for me so far.

    It's good you are using "found" money for this. Doesn't sound like you are risking much.

    RE: retirement accounts

    Post tax contribution makes all the sense in the world. That money grows for a long, long time, with zero tax on the earnings. I'm still 10 years from taking RMDs, but I'm already looking at massive tax bills from my pre-tax IRAs and 401Ks, once that time gets here (luckily, because of big balances). There is literally no other way to accumulate that kind of wealth for the average working person.

    Hard to judge the stock market looking at short term fluctuations. I was down 28% from my peak, at the beginning of April. Now, less than 3%.

    There are some good stocks yielding 3%-5% that are a lot safer than Joe Palookas $20K of credit card debt at 8%. ;)

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited September 2020
    many many years ago, I put a little money in the stock market. Made some, lost some, and ultimately closed the trading account but held onto GE. Based on everything I found at the time, they were worth more as scrap than their total stock value. The market never agreed and the stock continued to decline into nothingness over the past 19 years. Meanwhile, I would NEVER think a company that can't turn a profit is worth buying stock in. Obviously, that is not something the market agrees with. So I am apparently way too analytical to play in the stock market.

    I'd love it if I could find something to support myself other than my J-O-B. Or where it could supplement income from a gig I would really enjoy, such as teaching. I haven't found that magic bullet, though. :(

    I'm not understanding why you say post-tax contributions to a 401k makes sense. You can invest in the same funds in a non-age-restricted account and, as you pointed out, you still pay tax on the earnings at some point, so what is the advantage to using the restricted account?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    edited September 2020
    qbrozen said:

    many many years ago, I put a little money in the stock market. Made some, lost some, and ultimately closed the trading account but held onto GE. Based on everything I found at the time, they were worth more as scrap than their total stock value. The market never agreed and the stock continued to decline into nothingness over the past 19 years. Meanwhile, I would NEVER think a company that can't turn a profit is worth buying stock in. Obviously, that is not something the market agrees with. So I am apparently way too analytical to play in the stock market.

    I'd love it if I could find something to support myself other than my J-O-B. Or where it could supplement income from a gig I would really enjoy, such as teaching. I haven't found that magic bullet, though. :(

    I'm not understanding why you say post-tax contributions to a 401k makes sense. You can invest in the same funds in a non-age-restricted account and, as you pointed out, you still pay tax on the earnings at some point, so what is the advantage to using the restricted account?

    Roth 401K and Roth IRA, you never pay tax on the earnings. Not many companies offer a Roth 401K, however. By definition contributions to those accounts are post-tax.

    Yeah, I have some GE stock that I paid $33/sh for, too. But, I also have Microsoft stock that I bought for $24/sh in 2006.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited September 2020
    kyfdx said:

    qbrozen said:

    many many years ago, I put a little money in the stock market. Made some, lost some, and ultimately closed the trading account but held onto GE. Based on everything I found at the time, they were worth more as scrap than their total stock value. The market never agreed and the stock continued to decline into nothingness over the past 19 years. Meanwhile, I would NEVER think a company that can't turn a profit is worth buying stock in. Obviously, that is not something the market agrees with. So I am apparently way too analytical to play in the stock market.

    I'd love it if I could find something to support myself other than my J-O-B. Or where it could supplement income from a gig I would really enjoy, such as teaching. I haven't found that magic bullet, though. :(

    I'm not understanding why you say post-tax contributions to a 401k makes sense. You can invest in the same funds in a non-age-restricted account and, as you pointed out, you still pay tax on the earnings at some point, so what is the advantage to using the restricted account?

    Roth 401K and Roth IRA, you never pay tax on the earnings. Not many companies offer a Roth 401K, however. By definition contributions to those accounts are post-tax.

    Yeah, I have some GE stock that I paid $33/sh for, too. But, I also have Microsoft stock that I bought for $24/sh in 2006.
    well, like me, I imagine you don't have GE stock anymore. Although it confuses me that it is still trading on the market?? Did you also get the letter that your shares were converted to evaporated water or some such nonsense?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    qbrozen said:

    kyfdx said:

    qbrozen said:

    many many years ago, I put a little money in the stock market. Made some, lost some, and ultimately closed the trading account but held onto GE. Based on everything I found at the time, they were worth more as scrap than their total stock value. The market never agreed and the stock continued to decline into nothingness over the past 19 years. Meanwhile, I would NEVER think a company that can't turn a profit is worth buying stock in. Obviously, that is not something the market agrees with. So I am apparently way too analytical to play in the stock market.

    I'd love it if I could find something to support myself other than my J-O-B. Or where it could supplement income from a gig I would really enjoy, such as teaching. I haven't found that magic bullet, though. :(

    I'm not understanding why you say post-tax contributions to a 401k makes sense. You can invest in the same funds in a non-age-restricted account and, as you pointed out, you still pay tax on the earnings at some point, so what is the advantage to using the restricted account?

    Roth 401K and Roth IRA, you never pay tax on the earnings. Not many companies offer a Roth 401K, however. By definition contributions to those accounts are post-tax.

    Yeah, I have some GE stock that I paid $33/sh for, too. But, I also have Microsoft stock that I bought for $24/sh in 2006.
    well, like me, I imagine you don't have GE stock anymore. Although it confuses me that it is still trading on the market?? Did you also get the letter that your shares were converted to evaporated water or some such nonsense?
    GE isn't bankrupt. I don't think it's ever traded under $6/share.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    kyfdx said:

    qbrozen said:

    kyfdx said:

    qbrozen said:

    many many years ago, I put a little money in the stock market. Made some, lost some, and ultimately closed the trading account but held onto GE. Based on everything I found at the time, they were worth more as scrap than their total stock value. The market never agreed and the stock continued to decline into nothingness over the past 19 years. Meanwhile, I would NEVER think a company that can't turn a profit is worth buying stock in. Obviously, that is not something the market agrees with. So I am apparently way too analytical to play in the stock market.

    I'd love it if I could find something to support myself other than my J-O-B. Or where it could supplement income from a gig I would really enjoy, such as teaching. I haven't found that magic bullet, though. :(

    I'm not understanding why you say post-tax contributions to a 401k makes sense. You can invest in the same funds in a non-age-restricted account and, as you pointed out, you still pay tax on the earnings at some point, so what is the advantage to using the restricted account?

    Roth 401K and Roth IRA, you never pay tax on the earnings. Not many companies offer a Roth 401K, however. By definition contributions to those accounts are post-tax.

    Yeah, I have some GE stock that I paid $33/sh for, too. But, I also have Microsoft stock that I bought for $24/sh in 2006.
    well, like me, I imagine you don't have GE stock anymore. Although it confuses me that it is still trading on the market?? Did you also get the letter that your shares were converted to evaporated water or some such nonsense?
    GE isn't bankrupt. I don't think it's ever traded under $6/share.
    I think I tossed the letter, but it was something regarding a buyout and our shares weren’t worth enough to get shares in the new parent company.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    qbrozen said:

    kyfdx said:

    qbrozen said:

    kyfdx said:

    qbrozen said:

    many many years ago, I put a little money in the stock market. Made some, lost some, and ultimately closed the trading account but held onto GE. Based on everything I found at the time, they were worth more as scrap than their total stock value. The market never agreed and the stock continued to decline into nothingness over the past 19 years. Meanwhile, I would NEVER think a company that can't turn a profit is worth buying stock in. Obviously, that is not something the market agrees with. So I am apparently way too analytical to play in the stock market.

    I'd love it if I could find something to support myself other than my J-O-B. Or where it could supplement income from a gig I would really enjoy, such as teaching. I haven't found that magic bullet, though. :(

    I'm not understanding why you say post-tax contributions to a 401k makes sense. You can invest in the same funds in a non-age-restricted account and, as you pointed out, you still pay tax on the earnings at some point, so what is the advantage to using the restricted account?

    Roth 401K and Roth IRA, you never pay tax on the earnings. Not many companies offer a Roth 401K, however. By definition contributions to those accounts are post-tax.

    Yeah, I have some GE stock that I paid $33/sh for, too. But, I also have Microsoft stock that I bought for $24/sh in 2006.
    well, like me, I imagine you don't have GE stock anymore. Although it confuses me that it is still trading on the market?? Did you also get the letter that your shares were converted to evaporated water or some such nonsense?
    GE isn't bankrupt. I don't think it's ever traded under $6/share.
    I think I tossed the letter, but it was something regarding a buyout and our shares weren’t worth enough to get shares in the new parent company.
    That's not GE. Maybe, you held stock in a spun off subsidiary?

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I’ll have to take a pic of my stock cert

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    I bought some Apple before the split as I had a muni bond payoff early. Our advisor told us to wait until after the election and see where the muni bond market goes. We had a 4% bond and I was getting $1K/year dividend from the one bond I held. My wife had some also. But now, we just have to sit and wait a bit. That's when I bought some Apple before it did it 4 for 1 split. Now, I'll just sit on that for awhile and see how far it'll go up again. And with the rest, see what happens in a few months as I'd like at least another 4% interest bond.
    My reits are still paying out, just the dividend is smaller. But add that to my paycheck from Enterprise working part time, and I'm happy. And am a retired federal worker.

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Ok, so what is a reit? And which municipality was the bond for?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    Real Estate Investment Trust. Check out "Realty Income," symbol O. Monthly dividends, and a history of increases.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Cash flow from a REIT is nice, but risky when things go wonky, like this year. I wouldn't recommend a big allocation, unless you are in the "distribution" phase of your life.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    So, REITs are what I'm getting into with the real estate crowd funding thing I mentioned above. That is always with an investing group of some sort, right? The one I signed up with is Fundrise. I just don't think I allocated the funds between the different REITs as well as I could.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    qbrozen said:

    So, REITs are what I'm getting into with the real estate crowd funding thing I mentioned above. That is always with an investing group of some sort, right? The one I signed up with is Fundrise. I just don't think I allocated the funds between the different REITs as well as I could.

    Not sure those actually qualify as REITs. (it's the Trust part that makes it different. Plus, REITs are traded on the stock exchange)

    It's probably hard to get really diversified on those things without $20K or more to work with. Should be interesting, though. You might learn some valuable lessons.

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  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327

    Real Estate Investment Trust. Check out "Realty Income," symbol O. Monthly dividends, and a history of increases.

    The reits give you back some of your own money each month and call it a dividend.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    houdini1 said:

    Real Estate Investment Trust. Check out "Realty Income," symbol O. Monthly dividends, and a history of increases.

    The reits give you back some of your own money each month and call it a dividend.
    That's true for some. They set a high dividend, and borrow to keep it up. Of course, that will ultimately be reflected in share price.

    8% return looks great, until you realize the share price is dropping 5%-10% per year. :(

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  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    But right now, I want some dividends each month as I slowly exit the work force. I was about to retire again at the end of 2019 but I changed jobs in the same industry and am no longer "burnt out" like I was. Think the closeness to home, 3.3 miles each way as compared to 29, makes a real big difference actually. Even with traffic, it's three lights south and I'm home...usually takes eight or so minutes. Before, it would take maybe forty minutes coming home and thirty getting there plus the tolls and gallons of petrol which over a month, added up. I also spent 80% of the time driving in Miami, which is not for the faint of heart. And I've gotten to work with a new bunch of retirees like me and we enjoy each others company. There's lots of laughter and kidding which was lacking at the old job, something I find helps make the time fly by. Right now, work doesn't seem like work and since the raised us all to $10.00/hour, it's so much better.
    Q, those muni bonds we had were with the city of Jacksonville Florida, sewerage bonds as I recall. Gave us a good 4% interest and that extra $1000/year was nice to receive. And now, at this stage of our lives, I want a decent paying dividend so I can still put some cash into our retirement accounts and my 401K. And now, since the minimum distributions for the RMD's have been pushed back to age 72, want those accounts to grow a bit. Luckily, we've always lived under our means and obviously the kids noticed as they all are following suit. And even though it's not required, I'd like to leave each of our kids something when I pass like I was given. It wasn't a very large amount but it helped me start investing. And every little bit helps now!

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    kyfdx said:

    houdini1 said:

    Real Estate Investment Trust. Check out "Realty Income," symbol O. Monthly dividends, and a history of increases.

    The reits give you back some of your own money each month and call it a dividend.
    That's true for some. They set a high dividend, and borrow to keep it up. Of course, that will ultimately be reflected in share price.

    8% return looks great, until you realize the share price is dropping 5%-10% per year. :(
    Yeah, I always look at those big dividend payers and see what the share price has done over the last 10-20 years.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Based on y'all's comments, I pulled out of the real estate thing. Funds hadn't cleared yet, so should be no loss.

    The $1k in bonds thing ... we'll see. I'll ride it a little and let you know. It shows 13 cents interest for day 1. lol.

    I put $5k in the personal loans funding account, but am manually choosing who I lend it to. So far, I've earmarked $1,050 and only a few hundred has been funded thus far. The others are still pending.

    Still waiting for funds to clear to my Etrade account to see what I'll do there.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Just an update: on the personal loans investing thing, I bought into 16 loans at the end of Sept, and all got fully funded. All 16 made their payments at the end of Oct. I'll take that as a good sign. I put in for taking part in 5 more. I use their filters to choose only 36-mo loans to people with credit 720+ and using the money for debt consolidation. Leaves me with low-risk but also low return. But, heck, I'll take 4-5% under current conditions.

    In my Etrade, I put most of my investment in ETFs and playing with some stocks. Quick little hits here and there, and all have netted a profit thus far. Nothing big, and nothing long-term just yet. I'm very distrusting of the market. I also sold off most of my employee stock in my current company as of this morn, just in case.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Wish things were up a bit and hopefully, in time, things will recover. Luckily, don't need the $ right now so let it sit and just see where it all lands! A bit disappointed in Apple right now but again, know that'll go back up as more folks end up buying the new iPhones in the next few months.

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Anybody buying Apple now while low-ish?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Didn't realize it had gone low-ish. hmmm... I'm not sure. The Trefis price analysis pegs it at under $92. But a summary from 33 analysts pegs it at an average of $127. 83% of 122 sources are "bullish."

    big thing for me, personally, is that I have a tough time coughing up over $100 a share for anything. I'm relatively small time and get hung up on volume. $2500 for 100 shares of something that goes up 1 point is getting me better profit than 25 shares of apple for the same investment that goes up even 2 points. Probably not a great way to look at it, but I can't help myself.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    carnaught said:

    Anybody buying Apple now while low-ish?

    -ish? Still at a pre-split price of $425. Low-er, but not low-ish?

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    qbrozen said:

    Didn't realize it had gone low-ish. hmmm... I'm not sure. The Trefis price analysis pegs it at under $92. But a summary from 33 analysts pegs it at an average of $127. 83% of 122 sources are "bullish."

    big thing for me, personally, is that I have a tough time coughing up over $100 a share for anything. I'm relatively small time and get hung up on volume. $2500 for 100 shares of something that goes up 1 point is getting me better profit than 25 shares of apple for the same investment that goes up even 2 points. Probably not a great way to look at it, but I can't help myself.

    Took me awhile to get over that, too. But, when all the brokerages went to zero commissions, I adjusted to buy however much I want. I still like round lots, but I started buying into GOOGL last year. Started with 10 shares, then bought one share at a time, as it headed down in March/April.

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  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    edited November 2020
    Oops...my -ish should have been an -er....
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I tried to get Apple after hours last night at 108, but it didn't happen. Now, of course, today is over 110. Oh well.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    edited November 2020
    I got Apple right before the split. Had a muni bond that was called in early so had a big chunk of change sitting around. The broker said to wait till after the election to see where new muni bonds will go, so decided to get into Apple again after taking profits many years ago. I learned awhile ago from some very smart people that once a stock moves up a whole lot, doesn't hurt to take some of the profits as in many cases, it'll come down again and you'll have missed an opportunity. Sure, it's great when one has a lot of profit on paper, but, it's only on paper basically. Nothing wrong with taking some profits off the top and enjoying it.
    With part of that muni bond money, I also bought some more of a dividend paying stock that over 12 months would give me the twice a year interest payment that bond was paying. So, I'm back at that same level of yearly dividends that I wanted plus have a small chunk of Apple stock which I plan to sit on as a long term investment right now. The only negative here is that the interest I was getting on the muni bond was tax free. But, I might sell and take a loss on a loser stock I have so I can use that loss to my advantage, tax wise. But, I need to sit down and figure that amount out with my CPA wife. Or, just put a little more into my IRA for 2020. Also need to see how much I'll make this year at my part time gig as I can only earn so much from that before I lose some of my very meager s s payment, which they take to pay for most of my Medicare Part A & B. But, that's a whole different story due to me being a civil service retiree and that ridiculous & unfair Windfall Provisions Act of 1984 I believe. I don't want to go into detail as it'll turn into a rant!
    Bottom line for me is I like dividend paying investments and especially with stocks, I have no problem taking some profits when necessary. Especially as I slowly leave the work force for good, I need my income to stay at current levels and hopefully go higher, so must make good investments now to insure that income matches or bests what I'm making now while still in the work force. Also, I want to enjoy some of the fruits of my labor while leaving some for my three kids to enjoy once I'm gone. I was gifted a small amount from my grandmother and father upon their deaths, so I'd like to do the same going forward.

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

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