> would love to see the Billionaires pay their share.
Isn't the problem that so many people with high incomes can shield and hide their income from taxations--e.g., the stories about the Kennedy family.
And then there are the corporations such as GE and others who pay no or little taxes by moving their incomes or their home offices.
Additionally, social security needs to be paid on incomes right up to the maximum. Originally the maximum taxed was set at 90%ile of incomes. But social security needs the income so that we are not subsidizing it out of the general fund from our children's income taxes. I just read a brief history in a newspaper by Robert Reich that a commission had reset the max taxable amount under Reagan to 90 percent of payers being taxed on full income. But now that has slipped to 82% being taxed at full income.
Republicans in disarray as debt plans are questioned By Alan Silverleib and Tom Cohen, CNN July 27, 2011 4:30 p.m. EDT
Washington (CNN) -- Competing Democratic and Republican deficit reduction plans were subjected to a fresh round of criticism Wednesday as signs of disarray emerged in a House Republican caucus split between unhappy conservatives and a leadership struggling to maintain party unity. "Get your [non-permissible content removed] in line," House Speaker John Boehner told his Republican caucus in the face of divisive infighting over his latest proposal, two GOP sources who attended a Wednesday morning meeting told CNN on condition of not being identified.
Beneath the harsh partisan rhetoric, there have been signs of a growing recognition of a need for further compromise. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, called Tuesday for renewed negotiations with Obama, and indicated that his party must be willing to move away from some of its demands. "We are going to have to get back together and get a solution here," McConnell said. "We cannot get a perfect solution, from my point of view, controlling only the House of Representatives. So I am prepared to accept something less than perfect because perfect is not achievable."
Are those polls of a balanced sample of likely voters?
Actually, I think I got mixed up a bit on this poll question. It is this: 67% of Americans favor raising taxes on the wealthy and at the same time have sizable spending cuts. A CBS poll for one was released about this in the past few days.
In any case, I also know for sure that the majority of Americans blame the Republicans for this mess we are in right now.
> blame the Republicans for this mess we are in right now.
That's good, because I'm a registered Democrat.
> CBS poll
I trust Rasmussen, Quinnipiac, Zogby, and a few others in polling to give their bias if any in the sample they use. As I said earlier, the polls done by a newspaper or news network are sometimes less careful about getting a truly random sample or a sample of actual likely voters. They sometimes oversample democrats, e.g., and then present the poll results as valid.
>taxes on the wealthy
I actually agree on that. I spoke earlier to the social security contribution question. I also feel some of the hatred toward the wealthy on the part of lower income people is because of the fact that many escape taxation. Those are ones many people desire to see taxed. There are people who would be considered wealthy based on their incomes who are paying taxes at a fair rate because they can't shelter their incomes.
I could have guessed that from some of our debates on Public Employee Unions. Especially teacher's Unions. I would consider you as close to middle of the road as any of the poster's I have come across on Edmund's. Your views that some consider right wing on welfare are just common sense. Paying some leech to sit at home and watch TV, and make illegitimate children is so far left wing. And the motivation to raise the Democrat vote count is way too obvious for anyone on this forum to mistake.
What is kind of funny, is the fact that many on our deacon board at church consider me too soft when it comes to handing out food and gas vouchers to the poor and needy. Then I am a firm believer it is the obligation of church and family to help each other in need. Allowing the government to do it always ends up as enslavement wrought with fraud.
On the debt ceiling it is now a game of chicken. If the President does not think it is imperative as he has told the bankers. It won't get done in 6 days. I wonder where all these people worried about defaulting on bonds were when Obama Motors screwed the bondholders out of their money? I would rather screw over the Japanese and Chinese than our own citizens. Then that is just my sense of fair play.
I would say McCain should be careful badmouthing the ones that got him re-elected. Without Palin campaigning for him he would have likely lost.
McCain also blasted Democrats in his speech. He called the plan from Majority Leader Harry Reid "full of smoke and mirrors," and said President Barack Obama is leading "from behind" by not offering "a specific plan that perhaps could be considered by both bodies."
"It's unfair of the president of the United States ... only to go out and give lectures and act in as partisan a fashion as I have seen in his addresses to the American people," McCain said.
I am glad McCain was not too senile to realize the plan from Lame Harry was worthless. I personally am not convinced that Geithner is telling the whole truth about the default. What has he done to give him ANY credibility on this issue? It should be obvious we are lied to continually. I kind of wonder like Ron Paul. Where is the beef (gold)? This whole game Obama and Geithner are playing could be to get more money to waste on social programs. I don't like losing anymore in my stock market accounts than the rest of you all. I am down about $20k this week. But I have pictures of my grandkids on the wall. And they are not able to defend their future from those thieves in DC. I feel the Tea Party is all that stands between him and future poverty.
Oh wow! I cannot believe you are thinking this way. My thinking is the polar opposite of yours. I feel that it is the Tea Party (if it gets it's way) that will assure poverty for your grandchildren and mine.
We have not heard from Tony at all on all this mess. Tony, pleasy chime in if you are around.
Oh wow! I cannot believe you are thinking this way. My thinking is the polar opposite of yours.
Just think about the interest on the debt when the truth comes out about inflation and interest rates go up? It will soon be unsustainable. Look at the last round of bond sales. The Fed had a hard time finding anyone to buy at the current rate. I believe it was 3.75%. We are in deep trouble and adding debt will only make it worse. We cannot feed, house and provide HC for everyone that does not have a job or is unwilling to work. Forget tagging the rich for more. They have it hid or in a non profit where it is safe.
I have been "in" stocks during this mess, but maybe now it's time to reconsider. Why? Because the risk is sooo huge, it may not be worth it. What if the entire mess is a huge trap? There are some that made a fortune from the 2008-2009 financial disaster. The market had massive upside after the meltdown for those that were prepared... and corporate profits have soared.
Hmmm. As I see it, it's conceivable that there's currently limited upside potential to the market before it gets stuck in a trading range... maybe 10%. But just think how much more money there is to be made by shorting the market, promoting it's collapse, and then leveraging on it's rebound. Do you really trust your "leaders"?
Be careful. Be ready. Be smart.
Is being "in" THIS stock market THIS WEEK worth the risk? What will we gain if there is no default? A few percentage points of quick gain... MAYBE? Are we willing to risk so much for that?
I am not getting "out" of the market at this point, but I am going to be ready to pull the plug... and I will, if things get too much uglier, I will indeed step aside of the entire process. I feel like we are all helpless at the mercy of idiotic politicians, we are full of hope, yet we are concerned... the real truth is that we are considered potential collateral damage to our "leaders". You trust them with your investments?
My finger will be on the plug EVERY minute at this point until the situation is resolved.
I will leave this tidbit with you...
IF US Defaults, Stocks Fall 30%, GDP 5%: Credit Suisse CNBC.com | July 28, 2011 | 02:56 AM EDT
In the very unlikely event that the United States defaults on its debt obligations, the country's economy would contract by 5 percent and stocks would fall by nearly a third, according to Credit Suisse.
While Andrew Garthwaite and the global strategy team at the Swiss bank see a 50-50 chance of a ratings downgrade of U.S. debt by the major ratings agencies, they remain confident such an outcome would not lead to disaster.
“We think there is a 50 percent chance of a ratings downgrade on U.S. sovereign debt.
This could happen even if the debt ceiling is raised,” Garthwaite, the head of global strategy at Credit Suisse, said in research note.
“We doubt it will have much effect," he continued. "Japan has a 1.1 percent yield and an AA- rating, many U.S. Treasury funds do not have credit-rating limitations and national bank regulators would probably keep risk weightings for U.S. sovereign debt at zero.”
If no budget deal is struck, but the U.S. does not default, Garthwaite predicts a bad time for stocks and the economy.
“As our economists point out, each month of no rise in the ceiling could easily take 0.5-1 percent off GDP.
In this case, equity markets would drop by 10-15 percent, prompting Congress to find a solution, and bond yields would fall to 2.75 percent.” If that proved to be the case, investors would in Garthwaite’s opinion need to get into defensive stocks and out of the dollar.
However, the worst case scenario is clearly an outright U.S. default. That is where things could get nasty, according to the Credit Suisse team.
“This is very unlikely, but if it occurs, GDP could fall 5 percent plus, and equities by 30 percent,” Garthwaite said.
In the event of such a disastrous outcome, Garthwaite predicts the only place to hide would be in cash-rich stocks.
“Worries about the U.S. public finances will likely bring investors to focus on ultra-safe equities: companies with [credit default swap] spreads below that of G7 sovereigns, yet offering dividend yields above government bond yields: Centrica [ CNA-LN 312.40 -7.90 (-2.47%) ], Sanofi, Novartis [ NVS 61.94 -0.88 (-1.40%) ], Compass [ CPG-LN 566.50 -15.50 (-2.66%) ], Pfizer [ PFE 19.30 -0.33 (-1.68%) ], Philip Morris [ PM 71.77 -0.15 (-0.21%) ], Merck [ MRK 35.19 -0.60 (-1.68%) ].” With fiscal tightening in the cards no matter what the outcome of talks in Washington, Garthwaite is worried about the effect on growth, but not that worried.
“Our main concern is that, on IMF estimates, fiscal tightening in the U.S. will be equivalent to nearly 2.5 percent of GDP next year.” Garthwaite’s economics team predicts that most of that tightening estimated by the International Monetary Fund will not actually take place, and predicts only half a percent of GDP growth being lost as result.
OK, my good friend. No disagreement at all. But, consider this. NEVER turn a blind eye... Look at everything. Think about what it all means.
For example...
IBM....... Yesterday's volume was over 5 million shares.
QID....... This is just one ETF that SHORTS the Nasdaq 100. Yesterday's volume on JUST this ONE fund SHORTING the Nasdaq was over 9 million shares! Almost twice that of IBM... and it went up over 5% yesterday.
Agreed there are others that beat IBM daily but I am talking foundation/long term. Not 50% of the portfolio.
IOW, no time to get out of IBM/AAPL/AMZN at the moment (afaic) considering the impasse will not last another week. The Clowns are just teasing us, that's all!
Problem is, there is no lead clown, just a comedian with a funny middle name!
You have hit a home run with your recommendation for GMCR. It is up over 20% in pre-market trading,
Not only were you incredibly right about BIDU, but you were soooooo right about GMCR. Awesome. I have heard Cramer recommend GMCR many times, but never bought any.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government has been so irresponsible that it can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing foreign assistance from foreign countries to finance our government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt limit weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a spending problem and a leadership problem. Americans deserve better".
Senator Barrack Obama March, 2006...When he voted against raising the debt limit.
Thanks. I really believe that AAPL, BIDU, and GMCR are very good stocks to hold for the long term, but you can expect some ups and downs along the way, mainly caused by outside influences. Just hang on and be patient.
I bought GMCR back in Feb. at around $43.00. Wish I had bought more.
I am going to post this as respectfully as I can, and I am going to do so only because I care about everyone here.
We continue to see problems of massive unemployment and an unbelieveable housing crisis... among many other serious issues. Now on top of all the serious problems, we have gotten an unusual glimpse into the political machine that more typically operates behind the scenes.
These are the folks that are at the root of the problems we face. Was it a pretty picture? Are you impressed with their behavior? Their comments, interviews and news conferences? How about their ability to work together? Do they seem interested in putting the well-being of the United States ahead of political gain?
After seeing our "leaders" in action, I am more convinced than ever that we are in more trouble than I ever imagined, and I can't honestly imagine that those people can or will ever truly solve the problems of this country, and that it is more likely that they are more a part of the problems than the solutions.
My optimisim has been shredded quite a bit. My levels of trust are reduced sharply.
I expect a "solution" will come, but it will be a "false" solution... a joke of sorts. It will not truly solve the problems, but will put a bandage in place that will eventually come loose. In the meantime, the market will applaud the bandage, but I am no longer going to put so much trust in the stock market, due to our incompetent leaders. I know it is a great place to make money, but I am going to be much, much more conservative moving forward. I am going to go back to the drawing board, and re-evaluate my allocation between equities and fixed instruments.
I have pared down my equities during this fiasco, and I am convinced now that we have a serious problem in Washington DC... worse than EVER... and as a result, the extremists are going to gain a larger foothold over time. I expect that this next election is going to be horrible, with a bloody campaign effort from both sides. It will cause damage. I can't even imagine a good election result after what will be an epic battle. I also expect that our country will be seriously wounded and deeply divided.
I am warning everyone here to be careful how much of your $$ you are willing to put into a market that is quite vulnerable to political interference. I have posted in the past about political interference in the markets, and how dangerous it is, and how much I despise it.
Also, don't be too quick to celebrate any first "agreement" in Washington. It might fall apart. I'm not saying it WILL fall apart, but it could... The first agreement might just be tentative, and it could unravel, and give false hope.
I can see it now. Our "leaders" will pat themselves and each other on the back for a job well done, claiming that they never for a minute would have risked the integrity of the US. Everything will seem just fine... for a while. A big sigh of relief. The markets will celebrate.
OW... that wasn't my point. Of course there are. But IBM is a slow steady growth company. It's a smart machine, and in the end has a better chance of getting ahead than a lot of those sprinters that eventually run out of steam. Just look at history.
I was making an observation and reporting it. It really wasn't about IBM at all. It was more about the "shorting" of the market.... and the level.
Ok... now that I've clarified that, I'll get back to the main point, which was that there are sooooo many "investors" (again, I only used IBM as a barometer for comparison because it is such a solid investment) that are more interested in putting their money into a market that collapses. They are still out there, and that is what they want to happen. That is how they want to make their money. A market collapse is VERY profitable to a LOT of powerful investors.
They will profit from our loss, just as they did in the financial crisis meltdown, and then they will profit again when the market builds itself back up. Once it reaches a "top", the best way for them to make more money is for the market to go down again.
I also realize that smart investors flea to these types of investment instruments when the market is collapsing, but I think you get my point now. The collapse of the stock market doesn't matter much to many big powerful investors. They will make tons of money no matter what happens, and would just as easily invest in "shorting" the market than to invest in solid companies (like IBM).
It becomes an interesting scenario when there are more gains to be made by a market decline. Afterall, what is the more profitable appeal when the market gets to a point of limited upside potential and massive downside potential? When big powerful investors can profit from both directions, consider their preference in that situation.
In an earlier post you asked why I'd support the Reid plan. I really d'ont but as a last resort it is better than default. I really believe the Reid and Boehner plans should be combined with Boehner's real savings and Reid's future war savings. I understand the Reid plan is a bit of a trick as it counts savings that are natural so it needs added language that there will be no replacement costs unless they are needed for national emergency reasons. Otherwise the Dems will count the savings and then spend it on something else. One way or another I'm really sick of all this and we'd have a surging market if not for it.
BTW in a CNBC street poll 39% blame Obama, 5% blame Boehner, 24% blame Reps, 5% blame Dems and 23% blame the Tea Party for this mess. What makes me sick is that the Dems oppose a balanced budget plan and that is as irresponsible as it gets. How the public is not seeing through that is beyond me.
Paying some leech to sit at home and watch TV, and make illegitimate children is so far left wing. And the motivation to raise the Democrat vote count is way too obvious for anyone on this forum to mistake
Therein lies the Democratic spending problems. None of us want to see the real needy be turned down benefits. But how do you separate the needy from the irresponsible. The Dems lump than all into one bucket and write checks and that's where so much of their waste is as much of what we pay goes to the irresponsible who take advantage of the system.
Saw that now. I was responding to posts in the order I read them.
You know in this whole debt ceiling issue I'd love to ask Obama and Reid where the deficit spending and actual new borrowing stop. They d'ont want a balanaced budget so they come across to me as seeing it as endless. The Reps want to draw a line in the sand and say let's put in plans to end it in 6 years. Why Reid would say the Boehner plan is DOA in the Senate is sickening too. How can you not even consider a plan at this stage or marry elements of it to your plan. I'm seeing the Reps at least take some argumentative positions against themselves on compromise (Boehner, MCConelll and McCain now) but I haven't seen any Dem make such a move. And I'm sick of the commentators on TV like Hanitti who wants more to win a battle and have the Dems blamed after a default than solve the problem. This is a lose lose lose proposition as it now stands and Hanniti doesn't seem to get that. He wants to win a battle even though he'll lose the war. Downright stupid.
I have 500 shares of GMCR and very happy to have them.
Tags post #4668 pretty much sums up my feelings as well. This whole mess is completely beyond my understanding...unless the whole thing has been planned and executed so that Soros and others can get even richer.
I too plan of being very cautious going forward and currently have a large cash position in the Scottrade acct. More cash than equities. Mostly muni bonds in the Wells Fargo acct., which I am very nervous about.
There is simply no way for our country to get out of this mess without a lot of pain. The gov. could confiscate every dime owned by the Forbes richest 500, about 1.6 trillion and hardly make a dent in what the 2012 deficit will be...and that is only one year, never mind our overall national debt.
We might have a chance if our politicians would simply take a meat ax to all the discretionary spending and just start slashing away, then use a scalpel on the entitlements.
Even with that, when all the taxes for Obamacare start kicking in we might still be screwed.
None of the current plans floating around even touch the problem.
I agree with your assesment, which sounds a little different than what it was last week when I asked if I should convert my IRA's/401K's to cash(within their respective accounts, so as not to donate anything to the feds).
I have indeed, converted my holdings to cash(except physical gold), and will sit on the sidelines until things look better.
Yes, initially none of us had yet witnessed the circus act we have been watching since then... and now it is more obvious that our "leaders" are really screwed up, and the process is infiltrated by extremists.
A bad prescription for progress.
Good luck to you, too.
We will continue to stay in touch and see how things go. Nothing that comes out of Washington DC will surprise me any more. Well... maybe. They may have even more pathetic surprises up their sleeves.
There has been a common theme in all this mess. It's the Tea Party morons.
CNBC.com Article: Lost Amid Debt Talks: How 'Grand Bargain' Fell Apart
No matter how the White House and Congress end up resolving the debt impasse, the messy finish will make it easy to forget that Boehner and Obama once stood on the precipice of a daring compromise.
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Here's the real source of our problem for the markets, whether or not there's a quick solution this time.
"President Barack Obama's conduct during the debate over the debt ceiling has divided the country and will inflict damage that will last well after the battle is over, former New York Stock Exchange director and Wall Street stalwart Ken Langone said.
"He is dividing us as a nation," Langone said. "He's not bringing us together. He's willfully dividing us. He's petulant."
"He is not acting presidential. He is behaving in a way designed in my opinion to divide us, to make us look at each other with skepticism, with suspicion. That is the end of America as we know it," he said. "The destruction he is inflicting by his behavior will carry on long after we settle the debt limit."
"The debt ceiling will be raised, number one, by next week," he said. "They'll come to some juncture where they're going to say, 'This is not what I wanted but it's the best I can get.'"
"One solution he proposed is higher taxation, particularly for the wealthier in society who are getting benefits they don't deserve from entitlement programs such as Social Security."
Langone says wealthy should pay more. However I disagree with his income redistribution to have soc sec pay less to those who have higher incomes, and thus give more to the poor who paid in less.
>CNBC.com Article: Lost Amid Debt Talks: How 'Grand Bargain' Fell Apart
This is the compromise where Obama moved the goalposts for how much new taxes were to be included (or "revenues" to be PC).
So there was pressure from the neophytes in the House AND Obama, once again, was playing the game of making the Republicans do the positing and he then would say yeah, nay, or maybe. Does not sound leader=like to me.
Looks like Boehner already had some pressure on him from the TP and when Obama demanded another $400 Billion in revenue that was the straw that broke the camels back.
Obama did not deny he asked for the additional revenue...he just said it was a negotiating tactic.
It's time to move some mutual fund monies to safer havens in in nontaxable events in my tax-sheltered funds. I don't trust what I'm seeing.
We have the White House and democrats calling names in yet another childish method of solving the dichotomy. Maybe that's what their constituency understands:
"GOP Spoiling Christmas" CARNEY: House GOP 'incredibly juvenile'... Schultz (D-Fla.), chair of the Democratic National Committee, said Wednesday that House Republicans are trying to impose “dictatorship” through their tactics
Time for the kids to eat their peas, as the prez said, and step up to compromise with the GOP.
Meanwhile, I don't trust them. I think they are hoping to hang this on the GOP as a way of salvaging Obama in 2012.
"Dividing who Mr. Langone? The polls show he has way more support than the GOP and even the dems who are ahead of the GOP. You are correct he is dividing some. The GOP! Somehow clowns like you seem to think the minority deserves more say when you have clowns like Scott Walker saying the minority has no say! Thanks to Scott Walker, Chris Christie, Rick Scott, and John Kasich you will see how much strength Obama really has and how much the GOP agenda has destroyed its party. Sure the polls show frustration but when push comes to shove Americans have now seen why voting for the GOP is dangerous and any alternative is simply the safe play whether your frustrated or not. Obama is stronger than the current GOP thanks to these governors who outraged the people in those states are now! As angry as they were w/ Obama in 2010 it has completely flipped the other way. That is the funny thing the GOP became a my way or the highway party whether they have a majority or are in the minority and you know what? Americans are rejecting it! The ALEC agenda stinks and Americans know it face facts! "
"While I would agree with much of what Mr. Langone uttered, he is wrong to characterize President O'Bama conduct as "unpresidential." As a American who is Black and Republican, I find the GOP conduct in this whole escapade rather disgusting. The very people on the GOP side who are yelling the loudest are the ones for voted for a lot of crap that got America in this mess; two wars, a Bush tax cut, and Medicare Part D! Now, they want to cast themselves as the more fiscally responsible...Nonesense! We are not going to get out of this mess without BROAD tax increases. While the wealthy are paying nearly half of income taxes, we need to rid the tax code of interest deductions on second homes and large mortgages, say those exceeding $500,000. Also, why should boats be considered homes with interest deductions? We are Prozac Nation and think everything should be painless. BUNK! Wealthy American are front running the system and are deriving HUGE and unfair benefits. If you knew of all the crap that has been creted to allow the wealthy to shield income and assets, you would be shocked!"
It's funny how this pandering by irresponsible overgrown children on the puppet strings of our corporate overlords will be directly linked to investment portfolios and performance. Also fun how this solely political (not economic) strategy is backfiring and starting to hurt the GOP at a time when they can't afford it. No foresight.
Hannity is one-sided, and while we can agree with him a lot... we must recognize that he sometimes holds on to a position for the sole reason that it is anti-Obama. He's not the only one that does that.
If Obama or any Democrat should ever come up with a good idea, then it should be given credit for it's own merits, and not "automatically" rejected just because it came from Obama or a Democrat, Blindly supporting or criticizing the opposition is counter-productive, IMO.
Many TV commentators and hosts, as well as waaaaasy too many of our "leaders" from ALL polltical parties are guilty of this. It limits the usefulness of potentially good ideas.
Not only has the news reported today that Speaker Boehner is scheming to raise the debt ceiling with no real spending cuts, but if this plan goes through, Speaker Boehner will have rammed through another business as usual proposal - just because the GOP Leadership doesn't want to have to "deal with it" again!
In addition to raising the debt ceiling by $900 billion, the "cuts" in this deal are so small and spread out over so many years they're rendered effectively meaningless.
Only one thing will stop such a deal: You and I raising a cry of opposition that scares sense back into the Republican leadership.
I'm doing all I can. Will you join me?
If leadership's raw deal goes through, I'm afraid President Obama will have the Tea Party on life support.
I refuse to sit still while another Big Government-empowering compromise to raise the debt ceiling is forced on the American people, but limited government patriots will only prevail if our elected officials hear from us right away!
Please sign the petition to your representative and senators DEMANDING that they reject Speaker Boehner's scheme to raise the debt limit with no real spending cuts.
Watching the debate on the floor of the House. The democrats who have put forth no plan, put forth no budget in 800 days, is chastising the republicans about not compromising. If they had put forth a budget int he House from the Dems, this moment might have been avoided.
I must have missed the compromise by democrats and obama on the healthcare takeover. Must have missed it.
Sounds like spoilers at work.
Probably complaints can come from both sides, but it's amusing to watch the democrats, the party of transquility and not hurting feelings, be less than transquil and no caring of feelings!
>Hannity
He can be just as dogmatic as the MSNBC talking heads like Maddow, the new guy in the evening, Chris Matthews are just as dogmatic.
The national debt has increased each of the last 18 years...however, it has increased more in the last 2 years than in the previous 16 years combined. And of course, Bush did it !!
I know this comes as a big surprise (just kidding) but I am once again "out" of this market.
Here's what I did. Yesterday, I sold off most of my smaller and less relevant holdings early in the morning, before the huge slide. I was not able to retain ALL the gains I had shown prior to that, but I was able to sell at a profit on most of them because they had been growing for a couple of weeks. There were a couple of small losses mixed in because some of the positions were already too low right at the opening bell. I did incur a larger loss on a couple as well, but not as bad as it could have been. I repurchased some of my favorite stocks at a lower price than I sold them, but I soon realized that they were going to drop, so I sold a portion of those shares. to see what would happen this morning. Well, this morning I noticed that there was an early advance in the market, and during that advance I sold off the rest of every single share I owned before the market went a little higher, but then took it all away again, and then some.
Overall, averaging everything together, I basically came out several thousand dollars ahead of where I was about two weeks ago. I don't know if this a good thing or a bad thing, but I do feel a sense of relief... and I am glad to be in a position to take yet another fresh look at the market AFTER all the baloney is over. One thing for sure... I will not forget what I have witnessed of our "leaders" regarding this debt ceiling issue. It has been an eye-opener to some extent... meaning that our politicians in Washington DC are even WORSE than I already had them pegged to be, which was already pretty darned pitiful and shameful.
I am convinced that if those a--holes in Washington, D.C. had not created all this debt ceiling drama, we would have been at a 13K DOW, and we would all be very pleased with our gains. Perhaps the DOW will still advance, but I now see too much downside risk to participate. I suppose if I get back in at an optimum time (if I get lucky) I will be glad about all of it, but I am not counting on it. This is not a market correction we are dealing with here. This is something I don't know how to deal with very well. Typically I have a history of dealing effectively with most market corrections and downturns, and I timed the most recent correction just fine. But this is soooo different. I suppose I will be lucky if I get back in the market at the right time.
Regardless, I will watch from the sidelines. I really expected to go long term this time, but these conditions are beyond my comfort zone, and I didn't expect something of this magnitude, and I could never have imagined it. You never know what (and when) new stupidity is going to emerge from Washington D.C. these days.
I'll just stay poised and ready.
Again, congratulations and thanks to Houdini for his great calls on BIDU and GMCR, which have both proved to be grand slam home runs. That's a tough act to follow Houdini. And I expect more from you, of course. LOL.
I feel the Tea Party is all that stands between him and future poverty.
Amen, brother!
When all of these deals talk about reductions over a 10-year period, they're all heavily rear-loaded (most of the "reduction" happens in the last few years). Plus which, anyone with an ounce of sense knows that the last 9 years goes right down the toilet the next time a budget is put forward. These 10- or 12-year "plans" aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Of course, the X trillion dollar debt ceiling increase will be used up in 12-18 months, while the "reductions" over the same period will amount to $1.87.
If I were even more anal ("pinheaded") than I am already, I'd do the old Tim Russert side-by-side, where person X said such and such on date Y and then did exactly the opposite Z days (or months) later.
Do us all a favor and quit saying you're ever going to hold an equity position for anything resembling a long time. In my world a long time is 5 - 15 years. In yours it appears to be 5 -15 days.
You may not be a day trader (probably where your heart lies), but you're certainly a week trader.
Either way, it appears to work for your beautifully.
Just save us the "this time I'm really going to hold on to my portfolio long-term" rhetoric. It just doesn't wash.
This is now the greatest irresistible force meets immovable object scenario I ever saw. The cliff is coming up fast and the extremist of both sides are digging in deeper. The Tea Party is absurd and wreckless but at least you have some moderate Republicans trying to find a deal. The Dems are collectively acting like a right wing tea party IMO. Obama hasn't been heard from since his silly speeh on Monday which was a rerun of what he said last week and not one Dem seems to even be willing to talk about a 6 month solution (that seems to be their only objection to the Boehner plan) yet absurdly I've heard some of them talking about a 1-2 week deferral. I watched some of C-Span today and the speeches along party lines were just sickening. They might as well have only allowed one speaker from each side because in the time I watched both sides simply said the same thing over and over again. The Boehner plan may or may not pass the House but assuming it does it's the only thing we've got. The Reid plan has not even been voted on yet and the stupidity I'm hearing from Dems about how all the Boehner plan does is ruin Christmas shopping is nauseating and downright childish. If we d'ont get this resolved Christmas shopping is going to be meaningless. What we have going on here is some of the greatest irresponsibility ever seen by a President, a Rep party and a Dem party and I wish we could fire 90% of them including Obama. How he could still be negotiating when the grand plan was done and agreed to by Boehner sickens me. The man just does not know when to strike a deal and totally miscalculated the dangers of the tea party as Boehner was greatly overstretched at that point but thought he had the time to convince his caucus.
Therein lies the Democratic spending problems. None of us wants to see the real needy be turned down benefits. But how do you separate the needy from the irresponsible? The Dems lump them all into one bucket and write checks, and that's where so much of their waste is. Much of what we pay goes to the irresponsible who take advantage of the system.
That's about as succinct a description of how we got into this mess, and why those of us who take pride in taking care of themselves are so put out, as I've ever read. Well done!
I am happy to help those who really need it, but get beyond apoplectic when I find that I'm being taken advantage of, and there's a lot of that going on.
Think back to the red and blue map -- not the state one, the county one. All the red is in the cities and/or college towns, plus the Indian reservations. The blue is where people take care of themselves and have for generations, and teach our children to do the same.
Those in the red areas do likewise, plus which they're about to go over 50% of the people who vote.
. . . and not one Dem seems to even be willing to talk about a 6 month solution (that seems to be their only objection to the Boehner plan) yet absurdly I've heard some of them talking about a 1-2 week deferral.
Well, the other piece of this that needs to be kept in mind is that Jugears is very worried about being re-elected, and one of the primary objectives is to push all this ugliness out to beyond the '12 election.
Do us all a favor and quit saying you're ever going to hold an equity position for anything resembling a long time. In my world a long time is 5 - 15 years. In yours it appears to be 5 -15 days.
Ha! LOL... Let me put it the most honest way I know how, so I don't mislead anyone again. I will probably NEVER hold equity positions long-term without interruptions. I will pull the positions out now and then and put them right back in when the reasons I pulled them out are resolved.
I do continue to own some of the same specific stocks for many years, however, but there is NO DOUBT that I pull them out of the water now and then, before putting them right back in the water again. If that doesn't meet your long-term definition, I fully understand.
Your definition to long-term is "hands-off"! My definition of long-term is investing in the same stock over a long period of time. But I openly concede that my approach incorporates too much market timing to meet the typical criteria for "long-term".
As things are quieting down, I thought I would remind everyone that this is the way Washington works....It angers me as much as you, but it isn`t going to change anything.....I am disappointed in Obama`s leadership, but I`m not changing my vote until I know who is running against him...Who knows it might be a really poor candidate..
I`m no `ultra` anything , but I think we as a nation have to throttle back the deficit spending, in a sound reasonable way..Nothing momentary, but a definite step in the right direction....I`m just not going to let this process that has been worked out over many generations to throw my thinking off the real target, and that is to adjust to whatever financial challenges are coming...
I know Tagman wanted to become a longer term sort of investor, but the situation changes so quickly , he has to also.....If you took all the contributors on this board, and they were customers of a single broker, you would get a good idea how the broker benefits himself with the commissions that are generated by such a diverse group of people...It plays into Wall Street`s hands....Business has slower a bit over the last quarter for them so they are `stirring the pot`
The above certainly has not done ME any good...Not only scary but also just confusing and a bit threatening.....There is so much mis-information and facts being reported by the media that if anyone wanted any advice I would suggest you all just continue to believe in the USA and all it`s faults, and `what better investment than the fine companies you believe in`.....Again I would not buy the big blue chip stocks other than say ibm, no pg, jnj, ko etc.....Man what about apple , ibm, amazon , gooog, etc....Not at these prices, but maybe in a month or so or after this debacle is behind us..or even better after the fall `roundup`...Best advice over the years is ` If you don`t know what you are doing, don`t do anything`....I`m just not getting into` politicks `... Sorry `Charlie`-----Tony
Comments
Isn't the problem that so many people with high incomes can shield and hide their income from taxations--e.g., the stories about the Kennedy family.
And then there are the corporations such as GE and others who pay no or little taxes by moving their incomes or their home offices.
Additionally, social security needs to be paid on incomes right up to the maximum. Originally the maximum taxed was set at 90%ile of incomes. But social security needs the income so that we are not subsidizing it out of the general fund from our children's income taxes. I just read a brief history in a newspaper by Robert Reich that a commission had reset the max taxable amount under Reagan to 90 percent of payers being taxed on full income. But now that has slipped to 82% being taxed at full income.
Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/budget-baloney-why-social_b_824331.ht- ml
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
By Alan Silverleib and Tom Cohen, CNN
July 27, 2011 4:30 p.m. EDT
Washington (CNN) -- Competing Democratic and Republican deficit reduction plans were subjected to a fresh round of criticism Wednesday as signs of disarray emerged in a House Republican caucus split between unhappy conservatives and a leadership struggling to maintain party unity.
"Get your [non-permissible content removed] in line," House Speaker John Boehner told his Republican caucus in the face of divisive infighting over his latest proposal, two GOP sources who attended a Wednesday morning meeting told CNN on condition of not being identified.
Beneath the harsh partisan rhetoric, there have been signs of a growing recognition of a need for further compromise. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, called Tuesday for renewed negotiations with Obama, and indicated that his party must be willing to move away from some of its demands.
"We are going to have to get back together and get a solution here," McConnell said. "We cannot get a perfect solution, from my point of view, controlling only the House of Representatives. So I am prepared to accept something less than perfect because perfect is not achievable."
Actually, I think I got mixed up a bit on this poll question. It is this: 67% of Americans favor raising taxes on the wealthy and at the same time have sizable spending cuts. A CBS poll for one was released about this in the past few days.
In any case, I also know for sure that the majority of Americans blame the Republicans for this mess we are in right now.
That's good, because I'm a registered Democrat.
> CBS poll
I trust Rasmussen, Quinnipiac, Zogby, and a few others in polling to give their bias if any in the sample they use. As I said earlier, the polls done by a newspaper or news network are sometimes less careful about getting a truly random sample or a sample of actual likely voters. They sometimes oversample democrats, e.g., and then present the poll results as valid.
>taxes on the wealthy
I actually agree on that. I spoke earlier to the social security contribution question. I also feel some of the hatred toward the wealthy on the part of lower income people is because of the fact that many escape taxation. Those are ones many people desire to see taxed. There are people who would be considered wealthy based on their incomes who are paying taxes at a fair rate because they can't shelter their incomes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I could have guessed that from some of our debates on Public Employee Unions. Especially teacher's Unions. I would consider you as close to middle of the road as any of the poster's I have come across on Edmund's. Your views that some consider right wing on welfare are just common sense. Paying some leech to sit at home and watch TV, and make illegitimate children is so far left wing. And the motivation to raise the Democrat vote count is way too obvious for anyone on this forum to mistake.
What is kind of funny, is the fact that many on our deacon board at church consider me too soft when it comes to handing out food and gas vouchers to the poor and needy. Then I am a firm believer it is the obligation of church and family to help each other in need. Allowing the government to do it always ends up as enslavement wrought with fraud.
On the debt ceiling it is now a game of chicken. If the President does not think it is imperative as he has told the bankers. It won't get done in 6 days. I wonder where all these people worried about defaulting on bonds were when Obama Motors screwed the bondholders out of their money? I would rather screw over the Japanese and Chinese than our own citizens. Then that is just my sense of fair play.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/27/mccain-refers-to-tea-party-hobbi- ts-blasts-bachmann-backed-idea/?hpt=hp_t1
McCain also blasted Democrats in his speech. He called the plan from Majority Leader Harry Reid "full of smoke and mirrors," and said President Barack Obama is leading "from behind" by not offering "a specific plan that perhaps could be considered by both bodies."
"It's unfair of the president of the United States ... only to go out and give lectures and act in as partisan a fashion as I have seen in his addresses to the American people," McCain said.
I am glad McCain was not too senile to realize the plan from Lame Harry was worthless. I personally am not convinced that Geithner is telling the whole truth about the default. What has he done to give him ANY credibility on this issue? It should be obvious we are lied to continually. I kind of wonder like Ron Paul. Where is the beef (gold)? This whole game Obama and Geithner are playing could be to get more money to waste on social programs. I don't like losing anymore in my stock market accounts than the rest of you all. I am down about $20k this week. But I have pictures of my grandkids on the wall. And they are not able to defend their future from those thieves in DC. I feel the Tea Party is all that stands between him and future poverty.
We have not heard from Tony at all on all this mess. Tony, pleasy chime in if you are around.
Just think about the interest on the debt when the truth comes out about inflation and interest rates go up? It will soon be unsustainable. Look at the last round of bond sales. The Fed had a hard time finding anyone to buy at the current rate. I believe it was 3.75%. We are in deep trouble and adding debt will only make it worse. We cannot feed, house and provide HC for everyone that does not have a job or is unwilling to work. Forget tagging the rich for more. They have it hid or in a non profit where it is safe.
Hmmm. As I see it, it's conceivable that there's currently limited upside potential to the market before it gets stuck in a trading range... maybe 10%. But just think how much more money there is to be made by shorting the market, promoting it's collapse, and then leveraging on it's rebound. Do you really trust your "leaders"?
Be careful. Be ready. Be smart.
Is being "in" THIS stock market THIS WEEK worth the risk? What will we gain if there is no default? A few percentage points of quick gain... MAYBE? Are we willing to risk so much for that?
I am not getting "out" of the market at this point, but I am going to be ready to pull the plug... and I will, if things get too much uglier, I will indeed step aside of the entire process. I feel like we are all helpless at the mercy of idiotic politicians, we are full of hope, yet we are concerned... the real truth is that we are considered potential collateral damage to our "leaders". You trust them with your investments?
My finger will be on the plug EVERY minute at this point until the situation is resolved.
I will leave this tidbit with you...
IF US Defaults, Stocks Fall 30%, GDP 5%: Credit Suisse CNBC.com | July 28, 2011 | 02:56 AM EDT
In the very unlikely event that the United States defaults on its debt obligations, the country's economy would contract by 5 percent and stocks would fall by nearly a third, according to Credit Suisse.
While Andrew Garthwaite and the global strategy team at the Swiss bank see a 50-50 chance of a ratings downgrade of U.S. debt by the major ratings agencies, they remain confident such an outcome would not lead to disaster.
“We think there is a 50 percent chance of a ratings downgrade on U.S. sovereign debt.
This could happen even if the debt ceiling is raised,” Garthwaite, the head of global strategy at Credit Suisse, said in research note.
“We doubt it will have much effect," he continued. "Japan has a 1.1 percent yield and an AA- rating, many U.S. Treasury funds do not have credit-rating limitations and national bank regulators would probably keep risk weightings for U.S. sovereign debt at zero.”
If no budget deal is struck, but the U.S. does not default, Garthwaite predicts a bad time for stocks and the economy.
“As our economists point out, each month of no rise in the ceiling could easily take 0.5-1 percent off GDP.
In this case, equity markets would drop by 10-15 percent, prompting Congress to find a solution, and bond yields would fall to 2.75 percent.” If that proved to be the case, investors would in Garthwaite’s opinion need to get into defensive stocks and out of the dollar.
However, the worst case scenario is clearly an outright U.S. default. That is where things could get nasty, according to the Credit Suisse team.
“This is very unlikely, but if it occurs, GDP could fall 5 percent plus, and equities by 30 percent,” Garthwaite said.
In the event of such a disastrous outcome, Garthwaite predicts the only place to hide would be in cash-rich stocks.
“Worries about the U.S. public finances will likely bring investors to focus on ultra-safe equities: companies with [credit default swap] spreads below that of G7 sovereigns, yet offering dividend yields above government bond yields: Centrica [ CNA-LN 312.40 -7.90 (-2.47%) ], Sanofi, Novartis [ NVS 61.94 -0.88 (-1.40%) ], Compass [ CPG-LN 566.50 -15.50 (-2.66%) ], Pfizer [ PFE 19.30 -0.33 (-1.68%) ], Philip Morris [ PM 71.77 -0.15 (-0.21%) ], Merck [ MRK 35.19 -0.60 (-1.68%) ].” With fiscal tightening in the cards no matter what the outcome of talks in Washington, Garthwaite is worried about the effect on growth, but not that worried.
“Our main concern is that, on IMF estimates, fiscal tightening in the U.S. will be equivalent to nearly 2.5 percent of GDP next year.” Garthwaite’s economics team predicts that most of that tightening estimated by the International Monetary Fund will not actually take place, and predicts only half a percent of GDP growth being lost as result.
Interesting? :surprise:
Who should you trust?
God.
TM
God. ....and IBM/AAPL/AMZN.
Foundation.
Regards,
OW
For example...
IBM....... Yesterday's volume was over 5 million shares.
QID....... This is just one ETF that SHORTS the Nasdaq 100. Yesterday's volume on JUST this ONE fund SHORTING the Nasdaq was over 9 million shares! Almost twice that of IBM... and it went up over 5% yesterday.
Hmmm.
:sick:
TM
IOW, no time to get out of IBM/AAPL/AMZN at the moment (afaic) considering the impasse will not last another week. The Clowns are just teasing us, that's all!
Problem is, there is no lead clown, just a comedian with a funny middle name!
Regards,
OW
You have hit a home run with your recommendation for GMCR. It is up over 20% in pre-market trading,
Not only were you incredibly right about BIDU, but you were soooooo right about GMCR. Awesome. I have heard Cramer recommend GMCR many times, but never bought any.
Great call Houdini!
TM
Senator Barrack Obama March, 2006...When he voted against raising the debt limit.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I bought GMCR back in Feb. at around $43.00. Wish I had bought more.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
We continue to see problems of massive unemployment and an unbelieveable housing crisis... among many other serious issues. Now on top of all the serious problems, we have gotten an unusual glimpse into the political machine that more typically operates behind the scenes.
These are the folks that are at the root of the problems we face. Was it a pretty picture? Are you impressed with their behavior? Their comments, interviews and news conferences? How about their ability to work together? Do they seem interested in putting the well-being of the United States ahead of political gain?
After seeing our "leaders" in action, I am more convinced than ever that we are in more trouble than I ever imagined, and I can't honestly imagine that those people can or will ever truly solve the problems of this country, and that it is more likely that they are more a part of the problems than the solutions.
My optimisim has been shredded quite a bit. My levels of trust are reduced sharply.
I expect a "solution" will come, but it will be a "false" solution... a joke of sorts. It will not truly solve the problems, but will put a bandage in place that will eventually come loose. In the meantime, the market will applaud the bandage, but I am no longer going to put so much trust in the stock market, due to our incompetent leaders. I know it is a great place to make money, but I am going to be much, much more conservative moving forward. I am going to go back to the drawing board, and re-evaluate my allocation between equities and fixed instruments.
I have pared down my equities during this fiasco, and I am convinced now that we have a serious problem in Washington DC... worse than EVER... and as a result, the extremists are going to gain a larger foothold over time. I expect that this next election is going to be horrible, with a bloody campaign effort from both sides. It will cause damage. I can't even imagine a good election result after what will be an epic battle. I also expect that our country will be seriously wounded and deeply divided.
I am warning everyone here to be careful how much of your $$ you are willing to put into a market that is quite vulnerable to political interference. I have posted in the past about political interference in the markets, and how dangerous it is, and how much I despise it.
Also, don't be too quick to celebrate any first "agreement" in Washington. It might fall apart. I'm not saying it WILL fall apart, but it could... The first agreement might just be tentative, and it could unravel, and give false hope.
I can see it now. Our "leaders" will pat themselves and each other on the back for a job well done, claiming that they never for a minute would have risked the integrity of the US. Everything will seem just fine... for a while. A big sigh of relief. The markets will celebrate.
So, my message here is this...
Be smart. And... Be careful of false hope.
TM
OW... that wasn't my point. Of course there are. But IBM is a slow steady growth company. It's a smart machine, and in the end has a better chance of getting ahead than a lot of those sprinters that eventually run out of steam. Just look at history.
I was making an observation and reporting it. It really wasn't about IBM at all. It was more about the "shorting" of the market.... and the level.
Ok... now that I've clarified that, I'll get back to the main point, which was that there are sooooo many "investors" (again, I only used IBM as a barometer for comparison because it is such a solid investment) that are more interested in putting their money into a market that collapses. They are still out there, and that is what they want to happen. That is how they want to make their money. A market collapse is VERY profitable to a LOT of powerful investors.
They will profit from our loss, just as they did in the financial crisis meltdown, and then they will profit again when the market builds itself back up. Once it reaches a "top", the best way for them to make more money is for the market to go down again.
I also realize that smart investors flea to these types of investment instruments when the market is collapsing, but I think you get my point now. The collapse of the stock market doesn't matter much to many big powerful investors. They will make tons of money no matter what happens, and would just as easily invest in "shorting" the market than to invest in solid companies (like IBM).
It becomes an interesting scenario when there are more gains to be made by a market decline. Afterall, what is the more profitable appeal when the market gets to a point of limited upside potential and massive downside potential? When big powerful investors can profit from both directions, consider their preference in that situation.
FWIW. Food for thought.
TM
Did you buy Green Mountain Coffee - up 20% today on earnings. It was another of Houdini's great calls.
Didn't buy that one. How 'bout you?
TM
In an earlier post you asked why I'd support the Reid plan. I really d'ont but as a last resort it is better than default. I really believe the Reid and Boehner plans should be combined with Boehner's real savings and Reid's future war savings. I understand the Reid plan is a bit of a trick as it counts savings that are natural so it needs added language that there will be no replacement costs unless they are needed for national emergency reasons. Otherwise the Dems will count the savings and then spend it on something else. One way or another I'm really sick of all this and we'd have a surging market if not for it.
BTW in a CNBC street poll 39% blame Obama, 5% blame Boehner, 24% blame Reps, 5% blame Dems and 23% blame the Tea Party for this mess. What makes me sick is that the Dems oppose a balanced budget plan and that is as irresponsible as it gets. How the public is not seeing through that is beyond me.
Therein lies the Democratic spending problems. None of us want to see the real needy be turned down benefits. But how do you separate the needy from the irresponsible. The Dems lump than all into one bucket and write checks and that's where so much of their waste is as much of what we pay goes to the irresponsible who take advantage of the system.
Again, read prior posts... #4665 & #4667
He bought some in Feb. at $43/share, but wishes he bought more.
TM
You know in this whole debt ceiling issue I'd love to ask Obama and Reid where the deficit spending and actual new borrowing stop. They d'ont want a balanaced budget so they come across to me as seeing it as endless. The Reps want to draw a line in the sand and say let's put in plans to end it in 6 years. Why Reid would say the Boehner plan is DOA in the Senate is sickening too. How can you not even consider a plan at this stage or marry elements of it to your plan. I'm seeing the Reps at least take some argumentative positions against themselves on compromise (Boehner, MCConelll and McCain now) but I haven't seen any Dem make such a move. And I'm sick of the commentators on TV like Hanitti who wants more to win a battle and have the Dems blamed after a default than solve the problem. This is a lose lose lose proposition as it now stands and Hanniti doesn't seem to get that. He wants to win a battle even though he'll lose the war. Downright stupid.
Tags post #4668 pretty much sums up my feelings as well. This whole mess is completely beyond my understanding...unless the whole thing has been planned and executed so that Soros and others can get even richer.
I too plan of being very cautious going forward and currently have a large cash position in the Scottrade acct. More cash than equities. Mostly muni bonds in the Wells Fargo acct., which I am very nervous about.
There is simply no way for our country to get out of this mess without a lot of pain. The gov. could confiscate every dime owned by the Forbes richest 500, about 1.6 trillion and hardly make a dent in what the 2012 deficit will be...and that is only one year, never mind our overall national debt.
We might have a chance if our politicians would simply take a meat ax to all the discretionary spending and just start slashing away, then use a scalpel on the entitlements.
Even with that, when all the taxes for Obamacare start kicking in we might still be screwed.
None of the current plans floating around even touch the problem.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I have indeed, converted my holdings to cash(except physical gold), and will sit on the sidelines until things look better.
Right now, I see a real disaster heading our way.
Good luck you all y'all.
A bad prescription for progress.
Good luck to you, too.
We will continue to stay in touch and see how things go. Nothing that comes out of Washington DC will surprise me any more. Well... maybe. They may have even more pathetic surprises up their sleeves.
TM
CNBC.com Article: Lost Amid Debt Talks: How 'Grand Bargain' Fell Apart
No matter how the White House and Congress end up resolving the debt impasse, the messy finish will make it easy to forget that Boehner and Obama once stood on the precipice of a daring compromise.
Full Story:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43926716
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"President Barack Obama's conduct during the debate over the debt ceiling has divided the country and will inflict damage that will last well after the battle is over, former New York Stock Exchange director and Wall Street stalwart Ken Langone said.
"He is dividing us as a nation," Langone said. "He's not bringing us together. He's willfully dividing us. He's petulant."
"He is not acting presidential. He is behaving in a way designed in my opinion to divide us, to make us look at each other with skepticism, with suspicion. That is the end of America as we know it," he said. "The destruction he is inflicting by his behavior will carry on long after we settle the debt limit."
"The debt ceiling will be raised, number one, by next week," he said. "They'll come to some juncture where they're going to say, 'This is not what I wanted but it's the best I can get.'"
"One solution he proposed is higher taxation, particularly for the wealthier in society who are getting benefits they don't deserve from entitlement programs such as Social Security."
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43924372
Langone says wealthy should pay more. However I disagree with his income redistribution to have soc sec pay less to those who have higher incomes, and thus give more to the poor who paid in less.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This is the compromise where Obama moved the goalposts for how much new taxes were to be included (or "revenues" to be PC).
So there was pressure from the neophytes in the House AND Obama, once again, was playing the game of making the Republicans do the positing and he then would say yeah, nay, or maybe. Does not sound leader=like to me.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Obama did not deny he asked for the additional revenue...he just said it was a negotiating tactic.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
We have the White House and democrats calling names in yet another childish method of solving the dichotomy. Maybe that's what their constituency understands:
"GOP Spoiling Christmas"
CARNEY: House GOP 'incredibly juvenile'...
Schultz (D-Fla.), chair of the Democratic National Committee, said Wednesday that House Republicans are trying to impose “dictatorship” through their tactics
Time for the kids to eat their peas, as the prez said, and step up to compromise with the GOP.
Meanwhile, I don't trust them. I think they are hoping to hang this on the GOP as a way of salvaging Obama in 2012.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Some good comments there, too:
"Dividing who Mr. Langone? The polls show he has way more support than the GOP and even the dems who are ahead of the GOP. You are correct he is dividing some. The GOP! Somehow clowns like you seem to think the minority deserves more say when you have clowns like Scott Walker saying the minority has no say! Thanks to Scott Walker, Chris Christie, Rick Scott, and John Kasich you will see how much strength Obama really has and how much the GOP agenda has destroyed its party. Sure the polls show frustration but when push comes to shove Americans have now seen why voting for the GOP is dangerous and any alternative is simply the safe play whether your frustrated or not. Obama is stronger than the current GOP thanks to these governors who outraged the people in those states are now! As angry as they were w/ Obama in 2010 it has completely flipped the other way. That is the funny thing the GOP became a my way or the highway party whether they have a majority or are in the minority and you know what? Americans are rejecting it! The ALEC agenda stinks and Americans know it face facts! "
"While I would agree with much of what Mr. Langone uttered, he is wrong to characterize President O'Bama conduct as "unpresidential." As a American who is Black and Republican, I find the GOP conduct in this whole escapade rather disgusting. The very people on the GOP side who are yelling the loudest are the ones for voted for a lot of crap that got America in this mess; two wars, a Bush tax cut, and Medicare Part D!
Now, they want to cast themselves as the more fiscally responsible...Nonesense! We are not going to get out of this mess without BROAD tax increases. While the wealthy are paying nearly half of income taxes, we need to rid the tax code of interest deductions on second homes and large mortgages, say those exceeding $500,000. Also, why should boats be considered homes with interest deductions?
We are Prozac Nation and think everything should be painless. BUNK! Wealthy American are front running the system and are deriving HUGE and unfair benefits. If you knew of all the crap that has been creted to allow the wealthy to shield income and assets, you would be shocked!"
It's funny how this pandering by irresponsible overgrown children on the puppet strings of our corporate overlords will be directly linked to investment portfolios and performance. Also fun how this solely political (not economic) strategy is backfiring and starting to hurt the GOP at a time when they can't afford it. No foresight.
Clowns like who?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If Obama or any Democrat should ever come up with a good idea, then it should be given credit for it's own merits, and not "automatically" rejected just because it came from Obama or a Democrat, Blindly supporting or criticizing the opposition is counter-productive, IMO.
Many TV commentators and hosts, as well as waaaaasy too many of our "leaders" from ALL polltical parties are guilty of this. It limits the usefulness of potentially good ideas.
TM
Not only has the news reported today that Speaker Boehner is scheming to raise the debt ceiling with no real spending cuts, but if this plan goes through, Speaker Boehner will have rammed through another business as usual proposal - just because the GOP Leadership doesn't want to have to "deal with it" again!
In addition to raising the debt ceiling by $900 billion, the "cuts" in this deal are so small and spread out over so many years they're rendered effectively meaningless.
Only one thing will stop such a deal: You and I raising a cry of opposition that scares sense back into the Republican leadership.
I'm doing all I can. Will you join me?
If leadership's raw deal goes through, I'm afraid President Obama will have the Tea Party on life support.
I refuse to sit still while another Big Government-empowering compromise to raise the debt ceiling is forced on the American people, but limited government patriots will only prevail if our elected officials hear from us right away!
Please sign the petition to your representative and senators DEMANDING that they reject Speaker Boehner's scheme to raise the debt limit with no real spending cuts.
For Liberty,
Ron Paul
I must have missed the compromise by democrats and obama on the healthcare takeover.
Must have missed it.
Sounds like spoilers at work.
Probably complaints can come from both sides, but it's amusing to watch the democrats, the party of transquility and not hurting feelings, be less than transquil and no caring of feelings!
>Hannity
He can be just as dogmatic as the MSNBC talking heads like Maddow, the new guy in the evening, Chris Matthews are just as dogmatic.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Here's what I did. Yesterday, I sold off most of my smaller and less relevant holdings early in the morning, before the huge slide. I was not able to retain ALL the gains I had shown prior to that, but I was able to sell at a profit on most of them because they had been growing for a couple of weeks. There were a couple of small losses mixed in because some of the positions were already too low right at the opening bell. I did incur a larger loss on a couple as well, but not as bad as it could have been. I repurchased some of my favorite stocks at a lower price than I sold them, but I soon realized that they were going to drop, so I sold a portion of those shares. to see what would happen this morning. Well, this morning I noticed that there was an early advance in the market, and during that advance I sold off the rest of every single share I owned before the market went a little higher, but then took it all away again, and then some.
Overall, averaging everything together, I basically came out several thousand dollars ahead of where I was about two weeks ago. I don't know if this a good thing or a bad thing, but I do feel a sense of relief... and I am glad to be in a position to take yet another fresh look at the market AFTER all the baloney is over. One thing for sure... I will not forget what I have witnessed of our "leaders" regarding this debt ceiling issue. It has been an eye-opener to some extent... meaning that our politicians in Washington DC are even WORSE than I already had them pegged to be, which was already pretty darned pitiful and shameful.
I am convinced that if those a--holes in Washington, D.C. had not created all this debt ceiling drama, we would have been at a 13K DOW, and we would all be very pleased with our gains. Perhaps the DOW will still advance, but I now see too much downside risk to participate. I suppose if I get back in at an optimum time (if I get lucky) I will be glad about all of it, but I am not counting on it. This is not a market correction we are dealing with here. This is something I don't know how to deal with very well. Typically I have a history of dealing effectively with most market corrections and downturns, and I timed the most recent correction just fine. But this is soooo different. I suppose I will be lucky if I get back in the market at the right time.
Regardless, I will watch from the sidelines. I really expected to go long term this time, but these conditions are beyond my comfort zone, and I didn't expect something of this magnitude, and I could never have imagined it. You never know what (and when) new stupidity is going to emerge from Washington D.C. these days.
I'll just stay poised and ready.
Again, congratulations and thanks to Houdini for his great calls on BIDU and GMCR, which have both proved to be grand slam home runs. That's a tough act to follow Houdini. And I expect more from you, of course. LOL.
TM
Amen, brother!
When all of these deals talk about reductions over a 10-year period, they're all heavily rear-loaded (most of the "reduction" happens in the last few years). Plus which, anyone with an ounce of sense knows that the last 9 years goes right down the toilet the next time a budget is put forward. These 10- or 12-year "plans" aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Of course, the X trillion dollar debt ceiling increase will be used up in 12-18 months, while the "reductions" over the same period will amount to $1.87.
Oh boy.
If I were even more anal ("pinheaded") than I am already, I'd do the old Tim Russert side-by-side, where person X said such and such on date Y and then did exactly the opposite Z days (or months) later.
Do us all a favor and quit saying you're ever going to hold an equity position for anything resembling a long time. In my world a long time is 5 - 15 years. In yours it appears to be 5 -15 days.
You may not be a day trader (probably where your heart lies), but you're certainly a week trader.
Either way, it appears to work for your beautifully.
Just save us the "this time I'm really going to hold on to my portfolio long-term" rhetoric. It just doesn't wash.
That's about as succinct a description of how we got into this mess, and why those of us who take pride in taking care of themselves are so put out, as I've ever read. Well done!
I am happy to help those who really need it, but get beyond apoplectic when I find that I'm being taken advantage of, and there's a lot of that going on.
Think back to the red and blue map -- not the state one, the county one. All the red is in the cities and/or college towns, plus the Indian reservations. The blue is where people take care of themselves and have for generations, and teach our children to do the same.
Those in the red areas do likewise, plus which they're about to go over 50% of the people who vote.
Oh boy.
Well, the other piece of this that needs to be kept in mind is that Jugears is very worried about being re-elected, and one of the primary objectives is to push all this ugliness out to beyond the '12 election.
It just gets better and better.
Ha! LOL... Let me put it the most honest way I know how, so I don't mislead anyone again. I will probably NEVER hold equity positions long-term without interruptions. I will pull the positions out now and then and put them right back in when the reasons I pulled them out are resolved.
I do continue to own some of the same specific stocks for many years, however, but there is NO DOUBT that I pull them out of the water now and then, before putting them right back in the water again. If that doesn't meet your long-term definition, I fully understand.
Your definition to long-term is "hands-off"! My definition of long-term is investing in the same stock over a long period of time. But I openly concede that my approach incorporates too much market timing to meet the typical criteria for "long-term".
So be it.
TM
I`m no `ultra` anything , but I think we as a nation have to throttle back the deficit spending, in a sound reasonable way..Nothing momentary, but a definite step in the right direction....I`m just not going to let this process that has been worked out over many generations to throw my thinking off the real target, and that is to adjust to whatever financial challenges are coming...
I know Tagman wanted to become a longer term sort of investor, but the situation changes so quickly , he has to also.....If you took all the contributors on this board, and they were customers of a single broker, you would get a good idea how the broker benefits himself with the commissions that are generated by such a diverse group of people...It plays into Wall Street`s hands....Business has slower a bit over the last quarter for them
The above certainly has not done ME any good...Not only scary but also just confusing and a bit threatening.....There is so much mis-information and facts being reported by the media that if anyone wanted any advice I would suggest you all just continue to believe in the USA and all it`s faults, and `what better investment than the fine companies you believe in`.....Again I would not buy the big blue chip stocks other than say ibm, no pg, jnj, ko etc.....Man what about apple , ibm, amazon , gooog, etc....Not at these prices, but maybe in a month or so or after this debacle is behind us..or even better after the fall `roundup`...Best advice over the years is ` If you don`t know what you are doing, don`t do anything`....I`m just not getting into` politicks `... Sorry `Charlie`-----Tony