Gardening

stever

Didn't they feed lobster all the time to prisoners back in the day, until they rioted?

ateixeira

So true, last time my wife came back, she brought me a couple of lobsters. Best dinner evar!

fezo

It wouldn't surprise me!

Heck, in the McDonald's they have a McLobster! Any place else they would call that a lobster roll.

robr2

juice - the proper spelling is EVAH.

Ah the McLobster - actually a pretty good lobster roll for the price.

ateixeira

gagrice

With the recent outbreak of deadly E. Coli in Europe there are a lot of articles about the dangers of organic farming using manure as fertilizer. I am not sure how you would test for such things.

(Reuters) - The warm, watery, organic growing environment suspected as the source of a deadly E.coli outbreak in Germany may produce delicious, nutritious bean sprouts, but is also an ideal breeding ground for the dangerous bacteria.

"Bean sprouts are very frequently the cause of outbreaks on both sides of the Atlantic. They're very difficult to grow hygienically and you have to be so careful not to contaminate them," said Paul Hunter, a professor of public health at Britain's University of East Anglia.

"And organic farms, with all that they entail in terms of not using ordinary chemicals and non-organic fertilizers, carry an extra risk."

Hunter said he personally bought organic fruits and vegetables, but steered clear of organic raw salad foods "for precisely that reason."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/06/us-ecoli-beansprouts-idUSTRE7552N72011- 0606

I am not sure if knowing your grower makes it safe or not.

Mr_Shiftright

makes you wonder what KIND of manure they might have used.... :surprise:

gagrice

It seems that much of the world uses human feces as fertilizer. I was always told that is very bad. I think the safest is planting in soil with a small amount of animal manure mixed in very well. It looks like hydroponic gardening would be a more problematic system. Though I don't have any evidence to back that up. Many people may just get a stomach ache and it goes away. I know my wife is a real nut on washing all our vegetables thoroughly. Not sure that is a sure protection or not. Here is the CDC site that keeps track of all the cases reported.

http://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/outbreaks.html

Mr_Shiftright

I believe our grandparents called human manure "nightshade"--that was the code word, wasn't it?

stever

Night soil. Not quite as deadly, usually, as the nightshade plant (belladonna) . Of course, tomatoes and potatoes are nightshades too. :shades:

Lots of municipalities make compost from night soil, but it's a better practice to use it on your flower beds and not the veggies. But the heavy metal risk may be exaggerated.

Sprouts have been implicated in e.coli outbreaks in the states before. I quit eating the alfalfa ones years ago.

Mr_Shiftright

night--SOIL (duh)

Karen_S

I use to grow my own sprouts. It's really easy. All you need is a quart mason jar and some cheesecloth to rubber band around the top. Put the seeds in the jar, sprinkle with water daily, and set in a sunny location. Three days or so later the jar was filled with fresh sprouts.

Here's a good question, though. If grown in this manner, is Ecoli a real threat? Is the contamination in the seeds or the growing process?

stever

We used to start 'em on damp paper towels. Don't remember where they matured.

But yeah, even the home grown ones are risky since the seeds can be contaminated "within".

UC Davis

gagrice

This is all news to me. The only thing my wife sprouts these days is Quinoa for use in bread. What we have found is name brands like Bob's Red Mill sprout in 24 hours very nicely. The bulk Quinoa we bought at the Natural food store would not sprout. All tastes about the same when cooked and used like rice.

Mr_Shiftright

Just harvested my friend's strawberries. They look *great* but are in fact quite tart. I wonder why?

I just got back from a hike at Jack London Park in Sonoma CA (where he used to have a farm). There are hundreds of pear and plum trees in a gigantic orchard--they are all neglected and half-dead---what a shame.

gagrice

If it is like down here the cost of water is a killer. No way I can justify having fruit trees on a cost basis. How many grapes, apples, peaches, pears, plums, cherries, oranges, lemons, limes & apricots could I buy for $150 per month. The cost of water in the summer season. Not to mention fertilizer. We don't use any pesticides so the bugs do take a toll on the fruit along with the critters. My wife picked a pan full of cherries this morning. She likes to cut them up in our salad in the evening. Mmmmmm good.

ateixeira

Isn't all soil worm poop, eventually?

Just wash the harvest well.

Mr_Shiftright

My dad was a pilot in China in WW II and he told me that exact same thing. They *knew* what the Chinese were using for fertilizer but he said he never saw nicer tomatoes! I never heard much about the war but I heard a LOT about that--LOL!

ateixeira

That's a load of crap.

No, I mean that literally. They used loads of crap for fertilizer! LOL

PF_Flyer

Actually, the amount of fertilizer is why the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

Well my dad DID get malaria, but I don't think you get it directly from....that stuff.

ateixeira

Actually I think my neighbor uses green spray paint.

gagrice

This is the first of the cherries and first plum. My wife picked a huge bowl full of cherries and a few more plums this morning. A friend gave us a bunch of peaches last night. They were wonderful on pancakes with maple syrup this morning. We got all the canning stuff out to start making cherry & plum jam. Life is good.

stever

"For the banana peel, it’s just the first leg of the journey. It is collected along with everything else in the compostable waste bins at Erlanger and hauled to a large composting site at the company's Georgetown, KY plant [Toyota]. There, it is transformed into mulch used at a six-acre vegetable garden tended to by employees. The garden donated 2,500 pounds of produce worth about $3,500 to a local food pantry last year. At Halloween, children at the plant's day care center get the pumpkins grown in the garden.

Gardening has caught on elsewhere, including at Subaru of America Inc.’s headquarters in Cherry Hill, NJ, where employees nurture a “Share-the-Love” garden, growing herbs, eggplant, zucchini and other veggies to give to non-profits. Last year, 720 pounds of produce was donated, the company said."

If This Is 'Greenwashing,' It Pays

gagrice

Great idea. More corporations with huge campuses wasting water on grass should do the same thing. "Plant Veggies not Grass"

Now that I have the squirrel population to a minimum the quail are breeding again. There are 3 covey wandering around the place. These wandered across the deck yesterday.

stever

I miss those guys.

PF_Flyer

Well, you need to lead them more then :P

gagrice

I have been reading about a tree called the Miracle Tree. It is Moringa Oleifera. Watch the video and tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXDSksjGNCA

This is an interesting story about trying to import Moringa products into the USA. This couple used to live a few miles from me. I am going to try and grow one of the trees to see if I can.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8111961/moringa_oleifera_products_up_ag- ainst.html?cat=5

stever

Hm, "the fact that the tree attracts a host of insects make it unattractive for people to grow it in their backyards." (link)

gagrice

I don't suppose I would want to eat anything the bugs don't like. I think the potential is for feeding the starving of the World. If it has all those health benefits I would not mind putting a few leaves in my evening salad. Maybe I will have my lot in Hawaii cleared and planted in Moringa. Want to go set up a Yurt and live off the land. :shades:

http://www.mamamoringa.com/about_us.html

stever

Probably invasive there, although it sounds like most of the native plants in Hawaii have been overrun by introduced plants.

gagrice

There are some invasive plants. In Leilani Estates where we have our only piece of Hawaii left, they discourage clearing until you are ready to build. The native plants can hold their own until the land is cleared. Miconia is the number one culprit. The Coqui Frogs are a big nuisance as well.

http://www.hawaiiinvasivespecies.org/pests/miconia.html

http://www.hawaiiinvasivespecies.org/pests/coqui.html

At least with plants you can use a machete. The Coqui will drive you crazy and are difficult to kill. I don't think it is as bad as the Hogweed in NY or Kudzu down south.

stever

Heh, your link says the frogs are bad because of their loud, incessant and annoying call from dusk until dawn.

Down in Puerto Rico, their call is hyped as a tourist attraction, and we went out of our way to try to hear some. Must not be as thick there.

Neighbors went to a U-Pick strawberry lot yesterday and gave us a quart. Nice and tasty. I like the hard to find small berries, but at least these weren't as big (and as hollow) as the stuff we usually get in the market.

gagrice

PR is where they came from. The difference is they have no natural enemies in Hawaii. On the Big Island they are deafening in the Ohia forests at night. When you buy or sell real estate their is a Coqui frog disclaimer in all the paper work. We would always go late at night to any property we were interested in buying and check out the din. For a while the state was spraying a citrus product on the ground to try and kill them. They spend their days on the ground in the wet leaves. Then at night they climb up in the trees and scream. It is REALLY LOUD. It is Not a tourist attraction. Many tourist have left condo complexes after the first night because of the horrible screaming.

On Moringa trees. From reading about propagation, I don't think they are at all invasive. They are not real easy to get growing. Once established they do ok unless there is a hard frost which will kill them. I think they are going to be planted more in the tropics to nourish those less fortunate than US.

gagrice

We got a Milkweed bush to attract monarch butterflies. Must be working as my wife found 15 caterpillars on the bush yesterday morning. Also a figs are doing great and we will be over loaded with Tomatoes in another week or so. We have a good crop of basil to have Tomato and basil pasta. mmmmmm





This tomato plant is over 8 feet tall.

stever

Nice. I "mowed" the in-laws front sand dune yesterday and was instructed to miss all the milkweed that I could. Ragged job but her butterflies will be happy.

If I really, really wanted to move to Socal, all I would really need to do is swamp my wife with your plant photos. But I don't want to work that hard and can't afford to hire a couple of gardeners to keep up with the weeding.

gagrice

Unfortunately I have had to do all the weeding myself the last couple years. Had a kid a year and a half ago that did not work out. His 4 older brothers were great. He is the baby and momma failed to teach him the work ethic she did with the older ones. It is hard to find someone you can trust that knows the difference between flowers and weeds. I don't do much weed whacking and that is what most kids want to do. I like them pulled out by the roots following a good rain. So that is what I do myself. Rarely use roundup except on the driveway cracks. So my acre+ keeps me busy enough.

sky23213

Hi, Gary!
Are those Bulgarian tomatoes by any chance?

gagrice

As a matter of fact I saved some seeds and we have one plant from that one that lasted almost two years. The last two weeks of warm weather have made everything grow like crazy. We will be sharing a lot of tomatoes with friends and family this year. We have given away so many plums and peaches so far. Just enough blackberries for my ice cream. My wife has made two big batches of plum jam. I am hoping for enough figs for fig jam. One of my favorites. Last year was such a cold summer we did not do well with figs or plums. How is your garden in MN doing? You had those great tomatoes a couple years ago.

sky23213

That's great!
We did four rows of five plants each last year, but there must have been something wrong. Even the farms around us were complaining of some disease on the tomatoes.
This year we started a little later, only 15 plants, and they are just about 5 inches high now. You know the logistics here are a little more complex :-)
First we grow the plants from seeds inside; then after May 15 (last frost) we start "seasoning" them by taking the plants outside for the day, then finally plant them in the back yard.
We have two cucumber beds on the side of the house; I didn't even know and almost weeded them out by mistake :surprise:
We probably won't have anything edible until the end of August.
Glad to hear you still get to enjoy some of those tomatoes!

Chris

Mr_Shiftright

Can tomato plants really grow upside down?

imidazol97

>Can tomato plants really grow upside down?

Last year my wife had 2 or 3 of the Topsy Turvey tomato holders where the plant hangs out the bottom. They worked nicely. But I notice this year all the tomatoes are in the ground. I don't know if she didn't like the product from the spinning holders or if the holders deteriorated.

Kirstie_H

I had one of those too. Didn't like it much. I mean, it was OK, but once you fill it with dirt it weighs a TON, so you'd better have a pretty sturdy place to hang it from, and a sturdy hook to boot.

I've done just as well this year with a cherry tomato plant, planted right-side up, in a clay pot on the deck. Nowhere near as heavy, and if I need to move it around, I can do it with minimal effort.

gagrice

This is the best year overall since we moved here in 2007. I think the old CDs we hung on the trees made a difference.



We have had fresh fruit from our yard going on a year. We still have navel oranges on the tree from last years crop. I wish we could count on the peaches and plums year round.

stever

Looks better than my oatmeal; at least I have a friend down in Texas who sends me pecans to put in it.

Lunch today was a big salad using greens from the garden bed. Neighbor dumped a load of onions on us, but we were able to dump half of those on our friends around the corner. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

Now, about GRAPES. I was thinking of planting some vines but I've heard they can take a LONG time to grow. Is that true, or only with certain varieties?

stever

The red grapes we planted in Boise fruited the next summer. The white ones took two years. None did much since we didn't water them much.

Remember, the best time to plant a tree grapes is twenty years ago. The next best time is today.

Mr_Shiftright

Well did the vines grow rapidly year to year or was it rather slow?

stever

The first summer the vines got about 6 feet up our shade house. They were at 9 feet the next summer. Then we moved. We pruned them for shade more than for grapes. Don't ask me what variety they were. Considering the heat and lack of water, they did okay.

gagrice

Where you live most any kind of grape should do good. I would pick one you like. You can start them from cuttings off a grape vine you like. I would just get a bare root grape early next Spring. Some varieties may do ok planted now. They should produce by the second year. In good soil with plenty of water they grow very fast.