Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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Comments

  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Then I am really lucky to have a poor name XUV & almost 9 months 25,000km & always frequent stop delivery vehicle without any problems so far.

    In your opinion my SF may be the 1 out of the thousands, the rest -- all making troubles?
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Like everything else on the Santa Fe, you can buy the helmets aftermarket. That is if you have enough money left over from slapping plood and chrome all over the vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bill: ballot stuffing? ;-)

    I'm not anti-SF, I just don't think it's perfect, like you seem to. I've stated it before, but there's nothing there that 225hp could not fix. Hyundai's HCD6 concept made that kind of power from a 2.7l V6. Sound familiar?

    A low price is something, but it's not everything. Most people are willing to pay more for a product they like more, or for one that has a more proven track record. Many people also want something quicker and more sporty feeling, these are SPORT utilities after all.

    I almost think the Sante Fe would be more successful as a minivan, because noone would care that it's a bit slow and handling is lacking, and it's safety would get more attention.

    You seem to be on a mission to convince everyone that the SF is God's own SUV and nothing else even deserves consideration.

    -juice
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    For the rich, I accept the "only famous brand name" philosophy.

    But the general public, I think it is stupid to buy something only look at the brand name!
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    No, you are fine, my posting is not mainly argue with u, but is for others (u should know who!)
    I still very enjoy your posts plus your good points & infos!

    :)
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    SF as a passenger van, no kidding!
    W/o the Shiftronic may be, but no no no becase of the "Shiftronic" magic wand!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do you know if Hyundai will come out with a version of the Kia Sedona, now that they own Kia?

    It's actually intriguing. The price is substantially lower than other big vans, and it seems to be well equipped. The only catch is EPA mileage is poor. Fuel costs aren't a big concern, but range is.

    It's no rocket, but in a minivan, who cares?

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Here is another story of mine:
    A Lexus RX300 owner visit our house and suddenly he saw my Santa Fe was in the garage. He said what kind of SUV is this. I told him it was Hyundai Santa Fe and he said Hyundai. I did not even know that Hyundai have this great looking SUV. He told me how the car performance. I told him that almost like your RX300 except a little bit slower; but then I paid half the price of your RX300. He said half the price....I said yes! He then tour my car from inside and outside! He really like it when I show him that the trunk window can open; the trunk have the hidden cargo bin; and especially my mobile system that he was so impress. He said that if he would have know about Hyundai having the Santa Fe then he would have get the Santa Fe instead of the RX300 and save plenty of $$$$. He said that he really like car (Hyundai) without worry because of the 10/100k warranty which I told him come standard.

    **Overall what I am saying is that there are so many many people out there does not know anything about Hyundai now-a-day as well as Hyundai do have the XG300 and the Santa Fe. If people study about Hyundai then they might consider look into Santa Fe and XG300 and especially the warranty as well. People still lost in this world. You know what I mean**
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    "People still lost in this world. You know what I mean"

    For once, I know exactly what he means.

    BWAHahahahahhaha
  • billtungbilltung Member Posts: 255
    Thks for telling me. I think they should have a van to fill up the missing products in their showroom. For passenger van in city, forget about the engine performance, all kind of modern engines (especially the foreign export grade) will do good, believe me! & believe me the gasoline engine days will be ending soon....

    No automakers are spending lot of money on developing their "almost perfect in city" engines, whereas they spend $$$ on add-on accessories. Have you read the auto magazine recently (can't remember which one) that the new windstar van will come with "VACCUUM CLEANER"!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What mobile system? Do you mean one of your aftermarket add-ons?

    I think the name Hyundai is very well known, actually. Unfortunately, not in a positive light. For a short while the Excel was the best selling import. Luckily those memories are fading.

    If they can keep up the momentum and keep owners happy in the long term, they can really turn things around, and more and more people will put Hyundai back on their shopping list.

    I agree that many people cross the Santa Fe off their shopping lists before even seeing one. That's a shame.

    -juice

    PS Bill, yes, that Ford even had a clothes washer. I think Maytag was involved (really).
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Yes! I have the Hyundai Mobile System. Made by Hyundai and that's why they are different then the aftermarket. I have the Hyundai VCD changer, Hyundai Head Unit with Screen, and the Hyundai Turner Unit mount under the driver seat...I don't believe any of other manufacture make those Mobile system themselve but using Pioneer, Alpine, etc... Mobile system....but not their own...
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    "...Each manufacter has it's good and bad cars ( pinto, gremlin, tucker, delorean, etc, etc, )"

    Could you clarify on the delorean? Is that the good example, bad example, or both?

    ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Both, I think. ;-)

    For Hyundai fans, Audi has proven that it is possible to turn things around, and drastically.

    Whether or not you believed the sudden acceleration debacle, Audis of the era had such poor quality that people believed it. They were seemingly ruined.

    Starting with the A4, they really turned it around. Then the A6 and the TT stood out as style champs. Now everyone and their mother is copying Audi. Look at how many fake TT interiors are out there.

    Subaru, Hyundai, Ford, and Jeep are all guilty of copying Audi's interiors. Imagine where Hyundai could be 5 years from now if they make a series of right decisions (no kidding).

    -juice
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    Hyundai has already started that turn around looking at what they first offered and what they offer now. However, IMO it was easier for audi to make a drastic turn because of the market nitch they are in. Where as it will be a harder time for Hyundai to make such a drastic turn around in such a short time due to their nitch as an economically wise car manufacturer.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I really like the Hyundai vehicles that are on the market today. I seriously looked at the XG300 as a possible purchase but decided on a VW Passat instead. I like the Sante Fe as well . . . however, as nice as the Sante Fe is and as much value as they put into it (lots of features for a low price), it is NOT the perfect small SUV. The same thing applies to the other manufacturers in this category. The Forester is plagued by minimal rear seat leg room and a dated "boxy-wagon" look . . . the CRV and RAV-4 are using 4-bangers to compete head to head with V6 engines . . . the Triscape has that goofy column shifter and the low rent interior . . . and the Sante Fe suffers from a high curb weight and unique body lines that do not appeal to all consumers (not to mention the "Excel" reputation that it has to overcome). Also, the only vehicle in the discussion thread that has real off-road capabilities is the Jeep Liberty and it gets the worst gas mileage of the bunch. No single vehicle is perfect, they all have advantages and disadvantages, pros and cons.

    Just needed to chime in on this topic since my forehead was getting sore.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Take care of the head...mine is just beginning to heal. :-)

    Stephen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hyundai could even put the XG300's engine in the Santa Fe. Let's see, 11hp more, and oops, never mind. Peak torque is only 1 lb-ft more, and that's at 800rpm higher.

    I'll stick with my idea of using the HCD6's 225hp 2.7l power mill.

    So their angle right now is price, warranty, and throw in safety. It's just too bad performance isn't on that list.

    -juice
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I drove my Santa Fe like a Celica right now. That's because people don't know how to use the Manual Shiftronic....Huh...beside I think my Santa Fe as quickly as the RX300...I don't really need my Santa Fe to have more power because it already go through the break in period and they are pretty strong for me now...
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    "That's because people don't know how to use the Manual Shiftronic"

    That's right, no one else in the world knows how to drive the Shiftronic other than you....

    "beside I think my Santa Fe as quickly as the RX300"

    hehehe... let's not "think" and let's do the math.
    SF
    Weight = 3752
    HP = 181
    Ratio = 20.7 pounds per pony to carry (not counting the extra chrome and plastic wood slapped on the vehicle)

    RX
    Weight = 3924
    HP = 220
    Ratio = 17.8 pounds per pony.

    So I don't care how good you know Shiftronic, the physics don't agree with you.

    This place is so amusing.
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    I meant to edit that to read all Manufactures have bad cars. the good slipped past me. But the delorean was good only in the movies. LOL

    Odie
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    I think Hung thought you might mean psychics not physics. :-)

    Anyhow...good point. The buttmeter has never been that reliable of a measure, regardless of whose butt is used!

    Stephen
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    LOL Tony, thanks for the lesson. Guess even with 40 less hp, the Shiftronic can shift into the future, or was that the Delorean?

    Hung: Unfortunately, Hyundai has a bad rep. They really burned themselves in the late 80's/90's with the Excel. I remember a friend of mine in school bought one for the price, and he got what he paid for. A 7grand car that lasted about 50,000 miles (the engine blew up on the highway).

    Juice - Put that WRX engine in the Forester, a little more height and legroom, and Subie's got one mean vehicle. Hope they do that!

    BTW, I think my head is also feeling better, but my monitor will never be the same with all those dents in it.

    -mad
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    Just get Earl Scheib to paint your monitor for $99.95, then it will look better. LOL

    Odie
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    LOL. Might be time for a new flat panel, but that thing will never take the abuse! My Liberty (when it arrives) should easily be able to handle it tho'!

    -mad
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    You obviously haven't shopped the market. The new 17" flat panel monitors now come equipped with optional airbags. No more bruises.

    Unfortunately it'll cost you $600 to replace the airbag everytime you read a message here!
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    Tony: Came up with a great idea. Monitor Bumpers! I went to Staples, bought a couple of keyboard wrist guards, and with my trusty glue gun created the ultimate warrior monitor! Able to with stand several pounds of forehead banging pressure without injury. I'm thinking of marketing this new idea, interested in investing?


    -mad
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Yes! That's because I have test and ride my friend RX300 and then I compare with my Santa Fe now. They don't seem much different on speed at all when I used the manual Shiftronic on my Santa Fe...I know it is hard for you guy to believe. One of this day I will do the 0-60 test so that you guy will understand more. The Santa Fe shift from 1st gear to 2nd gear so quick and therefore those report give you 0-60 test base on a/t. While Manual Shiftronic on 0-60 was not being able to test because their computer can not read it....get it....Especially my car have the break-in period which allow to go faster as well. Most of the report tested was base on new car and some of this car was not even getting into break-in period yet. A few time I have test on my Santa Fe; I used to see my Santa Fe needle reach 60 and base on my time stop I get about 9.0-9.2 second. Does anyone know if the needle reach to the mile slower than the actual mile or not?
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Absolutely! I'm always looking for a place for my money as my stock options vest. You can only hide so much money in off shore accounts befroe the Feds become suspicious.

    BTW, did you know I could afford to buy any vehicle I wanted when I was shopping? I could have bought two Hyundais. But I needed a new gold-plated lawn mower, so that naturally took precedence.

    Just thought you should know that.
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    LMAOROFL! A gold plated lawn mower. That's incredible. If I were so lucky to afford any vehicle I wanted, it'd probably be the BMW X-5, nice SUV. But, I'm just gonna have to settle for the Liberty (as soon as it arrives!).
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    It would be nice to see that engine in the Santa Fe.

    Now that we've all had our fun with Hung's post, could someone turn the lever back to the "mature" setting for this forum?
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    Why didn't you place that ove in the "Your Lawn-Mower vs. Your SUV - Which spends more time off-road " Post.... LOL go read those...boy will you guys get a good laugh.

    Odie
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Nice to hear that most of you like to have fun with my post then....Here my Santa Fe on deep sand; just in case some of you have not seen.
    image
  • blof3ld007blof3ld007 Member Posts: 4
    hey hung,

    that's a nice picture of your santa fe...

    i just got mine, and looks like i'm missing some equipment on mine...in fact, yours look totally different from the one i got...

    do you have the LX model?...and do the LX come with fender flares?...or did you buy those from the dealer?...

    i have a GLS and it does not have those on there...i feel like i've been gypped!(joking)...i sure would like to put some on mine...
  • blof3ld007blof3ld007 Member Posts: 4
    some thoughts on my santa fe...

    likes--
    -plenty of interior room...
    -nice smooth ride, more like a car than a truck...
    -it's cool to see people glance at you while you're driving trying to figure out what it is...i haven't seen too many on the road here in northern cal (seems like this is crv country)
    -nice long warranty
    -priced right, i didn't have to pay for all the extras

    dislikes--
    -my main gripe..lack of power off the line...don't get me wrong, my santa fe flys when I'm on the interstate at 80 miles per hour..i just hate stop lights (i haven't figured out the shiftronic thing yet)....
    -hyundai name = bad rep...i guess there's no denying this, but i guess i see it this way...my wife owns a 2000 honda accord, when we went shopping for it, we test drove numerous other vehicles--camry, maxima, sonata, taurus, stratus, (i even talked her into test driving a pt cruiser, which she hated)...but for the fit and price, the accord was her choice...the exact same thing happened when it was my turn to buy a new vehicle, i test drove as many as i could--xterra, rodeo, escape, rav 4, and crv...out of all these,i was torn between the crv and santa fe, because of the name and proven reliability of honda my logical mind was telling me to buy the crv,(we have had absolutely no problems with her accord, which made my decision so much harder to make)....but i liked the style and flair of the santa fe..plus it seemed to have more power, and rode so much better than the crv... my foolish heart told me to buy the santa fe...i listened to my heart only because i felt that i would have less regrets later...so far, i've been right...
  • vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    Lexus RX300 = 8.5 sec (from Edmunds)
    Hyundai Sante Fe = ?

    I looked at about 6 different reviews for the Sante Fe as well as the official US site and not one had any numbers for 0-60. However, your claim of 9.0 sec is still higher than the Rx300's 8.5 and they all had one common theme for their reviews (with the Triptonic transmission): Slow off the start but good around 65-75mph.
  • bri70bri70 Member Posts: 147
    "...they all had one common theme for their reviews (with the Triptonic transmission): Slow off the start but good around 65-75mph."

    I least to me, how a vehicle responds on the highway is more important than how it gets off the line.
  • mudpuddlemudpuddle Member Posts: 26
    I read your update on the Santa Fe. I just got back from a trip to Florida and was wondering how the Santa Fe feels on the Interstate going 80 mph. Does the engine temperature ever seem to increase with the higher speeds ? Notice any oil comsumption when high speeds are maintained over a period of time? I noticed that the Santa Fe comes with BF Goodrich tires....are they wearing OK ? My Camaro handles flawlessly when travelling (27 mpg too!), but problem is, limited seating and trunk space. While at Daytona Beach, we went through the Volusia Mall and found a "car store ". The local Honda /Hyundai dealer has a store where he displays about 10 vehicles in the mall. This isn't in the open mall itself, but actually in a store where there are salesmen, brochures, etc. They had a Santa Fe on display, very nice LX model. I'm waiting until late fall to see what the 2002 models have. My wife wants a sunroof. Anyway, while travelling, I tried to keep track of all the small SUVs that were on the highway. To my surprise, I think I saw more Jeep Libertys than any other small SUV. Surprising since they've only been selling for a few months now. I really didn't notice very many Escapes/Tributes. I saw 3 Santa Fes over the 1200 mile trip. The Libertys were being driven by guys who looked to be in their 20s, while most of the Subarus I saw were being driven by "older" folks. Just an observation, folks.
  • bremo1bremo1 Member Posts: 11
    I too keep on going back and forth between the CRV and Santa Fe. I've located a dealership about 100 miles from me that sells both (and has both in stick). I'm taking a roadtrip in the morning to do an actual side-by side comparison. I'm hoping to buy tomorrow.

    I love the Honda dependability and brand. But I also find the power, engine and value of the Santa Fe very appealing. They are two good cars, so it is not like I am making a wrong choice (unlike my Fiat purchase in the late 70s). I just need to figure out which one is more right for me.
  • vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    I was just responding to Hung's claims that his Sante Fe is better than a RX300 off the line. I agree with you about the highway thing, too.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Did you know if you slap the Shiftronic just the right way you can smoke a Corvette with the Santa Fe.
  • javaswingjavaswing Member Posts: 24
    first, let me state that your knowledge of physics is not perfect either. Horsepower is power, which is the product of speed and resistence force. if you are talking about 0-60 time, torque, which means acceleration is more important. Remember the saying "horse power makes you go fast and torque makes you feel fast"?. Feel fast refers to the feeling of being pushed back into your seat, which is acceleration. With that being said, the RX300's peak torque is 222 while that of the santa fe is a mere 177. So it is very likely that RX300 has a better 0-60 time than the Santa Fe.

    But things gets complicated as those are peak numbers and the transmission might not be able to maintain those peak numbers during acceleration to 60mph. So, it is actually possible for santa fe to out pace RX300 during the sprint to 60 mph as the shiftable transmission allows you to better maintain the engine's torque.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    After my post I thought about torque, I pretty much agree with you. Let's revist out little scenario:

    Our numbers so far--
    SF
    Weight = 3752
    HP = 181
    Ratio = 20.7 pounds per pony to carry (not counting the extra chrome and plastic wood slapped on the vehicle)

    RX
    Weight = 3924
    HP = 220
    Ratio = 17.8 pounds per pony.

    Now, I also have a 1999 GA SE2 with a V6 that beats the RX in speed and accelaration.

    GA
    Weight = 3118
    HP = 170
    Ratio = 18.3 pounds per pony.

    How can this be with a higher HP/Weight ratio? Well, that V6 also has a whopping 195 torque rating. While the RX is defintely no star when it comes to torque to HP ratio, at least it has a number bigger than the HP. The SF is anemic.

    So if we look at the torque to weight ratios:
    SF = 3752 / 177 = 21.2
    RX = 3924 / 222 = 17.7
    GA = 3118 / 195 = 16.0

    Just remember, you can only hold a car in second gear for so long ;-)
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    Every report show different type of seconds for each individual car. My Santa Fe is an AWD but those report show 10-11 seconds on 0-60mph while I was testing right now with my time-stop at flat hiway I used to get around 9.0-9.2 seconds on my few testing. Perhaps the RX300 you see it probably the FWD not the AWD...***Personally this is what I think. Even with the same type of car and same platform some can go faster than other; maybe they are depend on the break-in; not sure exactly why; but they do not match exactly the same speed..on split...

    **My Santa Fe does not come with the flares. I bought the flares at HDKautosport.com**

    **The BF Goodrich tires on the Santa Fe have a very good rating report and that's only reason why I don't change the rims and tires yet. I am waiting until the tires die/burn before I change to the Chrome 17" rims.**
  • vin_weaselvin_weasel Member Posts: 237
    My Jeep's at 17.66 for HP and 14.91 for Torque. Wee! :)

    (I should add that even with these numbers, the time for the Auto version is over 10.6 sec for 0-60. So the transmission does play a big part)

    Oh yeah and the 8.5 number I got for the RX300 was from a review of the AWD version. If that's the one they were actually testing for the time (which came from Lexus'), I don't know.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    The 8.5 is about right for the AWD. It doesn't matter what numbers you present, it's not what he wants to hear.

    Yes, Jeeps are very fun to drive! That is, if you like to drive. Make sense?
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    weight 3857 w/v6 4wd
    hp 210
    ratio 18.37

    torque 235
    ratio wt/torque 16.41
  • jeffmust2jeffmust2 Member Posts: 811
    1. Extra 1,000 lbs of add-ons keep all wheels on ground when Shift-O-Matic in use very fast, huh

    2. No Brand Name to stop wind flow so more slippery

    3. No chrome on OEM wheels to make slow SF

    Some guys just don't get it, huh?
  • hung0820hung0820 Member Posts: 426
    I went into caranddriver.com and found that the AWD RX300 at new rated 0-60 at over 9.0 seconds and while the break-in period RX300 from Motor Trend show 8.8 seconds. So to speak that the break-in which I have mention before does make a different in car split...Regardless of what there are not much different split between all of these cars list in this topic as well as the RX300. With same platform of cars and the break-in period really make the different on the car split as well. Could the PSI on the car's tire and the driver's weight will make a different? This is very question to me because last time I have the A/T Celica and racing with my friend Manual Celica when we were young. My A/T Celica go faster than his Manual Celica (was a true story). A puzzle to us because we don't understand what is the different but we do puzzle that the Manual Celica use a wider tires and while my A/T Celica use a factory tires. My friends and I when we were young we have test and do fix up for car racing but everytime we do those test with the same car they act like having different split time all the time. Sometime fast and sometime slower. It is very weird to us. Does anyone have good story about the splitting to share?....Or could it be the gas too?
  • beatfarmerbeatfarmer Member Posts: 244
    Many variable come into play when doing these test. Tempreture, elevation, barometric pressure, type of test surface, and importantly, the drivers. Most magazine employ testers that are very good at delivering close to the fastest times you can get. But if you are running your test during the winter in the Mojave desert as compared to summer in florida, you will get two different results from the same vehicles with the same driver.

    When you raced your friend, you mentioned he had wider tires. You were most likely faster because his wheels and tires were heavier and his choice of tire size more than likely changed his final drive ratio, delivering less effective torque to the road than you were able to.

    To answer your question, a heavier drive will effect the times. Tire pressure also has an effect on traction, which will effect times too.
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