Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

1262729313296

Comments

  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I think he had the Hyundai roof rack:
    image
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    Yeah that's the pic, but now that I look at it appears to be a VW Jetta. That's the mental image everytime I see that picture of Hung's roof rack with him having a ton of stuff on it. Thanks!

    -mad
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm LOL at all the mental images popping in my head. Boy, I love this topic!

    -juice
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    You and me both Juice. Hung, I'm sure that your roof rack can support a lot of stuff, but even with the superior handling of your SantaFe, I'd still be a little leary about overloading the recommended weight guidelines. Just my 2 cents.

    -mad
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Holy Cow! Liberty leaped into first place in sales for the class. They surpassed even Escape sales, with 10,562 units in July.

    That's pretty amazing for a new model, because usually they have to ramp up for production.

    Escape was close at 9,878.

    -juice
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I don't see too many Libertys driving around. Run into an Escape (or a Tribute) just about everytime I turn at a corner.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    That's cause the Triscape has been in production for a year now while the Liberty is brand new.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Exactly. You're seeing something like 12 months of Escapes on the road vs. 1 month of Libertys.

    Wait a while, they'll become more and more common.

    The Buick Rendezvous came out at about the same time, and I've only seen a couple of them so far.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I thought the Rendezvous came out last spring? I've only seen one thus far (in June IIRC) but considering how closely it resembles the Aztek, I don't think they've sold many. What's that site again with the monthly sales figures?

    -Frank P.
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    thanks for the link

    hey if the explorer & grand cherokee are such garbage, why do they top the list?
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    "hey if the explorer & grand cherokee are such garbage, why do they top the list?"

    Are you familiar with a certain famous quote attributed to P.T. Barnum?

    -Frank P.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    I see Jeep Wrangler, Kia Sportage, and Hyundai Santa Fe each beat the Subaru Forester.

    Something wrong, Subaru?
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    "hey if the explorer & grand cherokee are such garbage, why do they top the list?"

    This is one of the dirty little secrets of the industry. Why do they top the list?

    1. Most American consumers don't do their homework. They don't research safety ratings, check reliabilty ratings, dealer ratings, or customer satisfaction surveys.
    2. The domestic companies practically give these vehicles away to move them off the lot. I was ready to buy a loaded JGC Limited for less than invoice back in January. That was until I did further research into safety and reliabilty.
    3. More doesn't mean better. There a lot more MickeyD burgers sold than prime angus steaks. Which is better?

    TC
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford has about a billion dealers.

    Bust on Jeep all you want, but they have an enviable tough-truck image.

    They're also long established nameplates. However, sales for both models are way down this year.

    Squatch: yes, something is wrong. Demand for the WRX is so high that they reduced Forester production in Gunma, Japan, to build more WRXs instead. Note that they reduced the supply, but demand is still high and inventories are hovering around 40 days' worth or so (60 is ideal), with still no rebates.

    If you look at the big picture, Subaru sales are way up, even in a down market. They have actually increased their market share by 10%, remarkable with this economy.

    -juice
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    Thanks for the info. Have any cites to back it up (really.)?

    Actually, my sis just bought an Outback (I guess the Legacy Outback dropped the Legacy part of the name?). Nice car.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    "Squatch: yes, something is wrong. Demand for the WRX is so high that they reduced Forester production in Gunma, Japan,..."

    Which means that it is better than Forester demand? Is Forester soon destined for the scrap heap of Subaru history? If it was doing so well, I'd think they'd ramp up, not replace with another model...

    just musing....

    ???
  • mudpuddlemudpuddle Member Posts: 26
    AMI Auto World magazine did a comparision between a $19k Santa Fe and $19k Escape in their Sept. 4 issue. They declared the Santa Fe the winner in the comparision. Their statement read " dollar for dollar, Hyundai offers more". I was amazed to see that Hyundai got a higher mark for fit and finish. It's no wonder Ford, GM ,and DC are losing market share. No attention paid to detail. Speaking of Subaru, I'd like to see their advertising budget. Everytime I turn the TV on, I get bombarded with Subaru commercials. I'd be amazed if they turn a profit in the U.S. with the dollars they're throwing in advertisement.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The Forester is due for a major update. Other than a minor facelift in 01, it is the same basic vehicle since 98. Since it is at least rumored that a major update is scheduled for 2003, their sales will flatten in 2002. The Impreza has seen sales go up dramatically since the 02 models became available, 18,358 YTD compared to 11,325 YTD for 00. The updated RAV4 has had a similar slump and increase, going from 25,068 YTD on 00 to 50,938 YTD this year. Almost all the SUV's posting increases are new models, with many popular vehicles like the CRV, Toyota 4runner, and Lexus RX300 slumping as they approach the end of their present model cycle.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    They also tested a 4 cyl Escape against a V-6 Santa Fe. While I have no argument with the fit and finish issue you brought up, the fact that the test was based so blatantly on a dollar amount and ignored at least matching engine types didn't impress me. Hyundai and Korean vehicles in general offer more content than their competition, so the value for dollar is a given. The fact that they tested a base XLS Escape against the mid-line GLS is another inequity I have trouble with. I like comparison tests to be apple to apple. The XLS V6 Escape was only $500.00 more base than the Hyundai, so price was close enough for most people to consider that a reasonable comparison.
  • mudpuddlemudpuddle Member Posts: 26
    You're right about the comparision not being apples to apples. The Escape would have faired better on the acceleration portion. but then again, the Santa Fe tested didn't have ABS, while the Escape had ABS. Strange, too, that they only tested the FWD models. Having been a loyal GM customer over the years, I never would have imagined that I'd be considering a Hyundai SUV.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    I love the MickeyD analogy!


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I have a comment on the hamburger/car analogy. In both cases, although the Mcdonalds hamburger and Ford Explorer/JGC may not be the best in overall quality they do offer value to the consumer. Angus steaks surely taste better, but do no better job of satisfying your appetite, especially for the price. If either did not satisfy the vast majority of the people who purchased them, they would not have achieved the status they have attained. The vast majority of JGC/Explorer owners had at the very least acceptable ownership experiences, with many repeat buyers. Other SUV's have historically had large rebates (Blazer, Jimmy) and have not sold well at all, so that is not the only reason these vehicles have been #1 and #2.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Sasquatch- Subaru has always been a niche player (that's part of the attraction). With the "mini-SUV" market becoming more and more crowded, the Forester will be doing excellent if it can maintain its sales volume. And as was already stated, the sales for most models decrease as they approach the end of their life cycle. Yes the Forester's sales are off 10% this year but in comparison, CRV and JGC sales are off 25%. All three models are due for a makeover.

    Mudpuddle- I too have seen quite a few Subaru ads. Of course the ads I've seen are almost always on channels like OLN, TLC or Discovery where a few ad dollars go along way. It's actually pretty clever marketing since Subaru can get national coverage on these channels but still target their ads to pretty specific market segments.

    -Frank P.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    of Subaru TV commercials on major networks too. In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find Subaru spending a much larger portion of their advertising budget on TV ads, than other car companies—especially considering the relatively small size of Subaru. I'm thinking of the size of car company vs. TV ad dollars spent.

    I see as many Subaru TV commercials (if not more), than TV commercials from any of the other "large" car companies.

    Bob
  • speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    I wonder how much personal preference comes in to a person's ability to gauge how many commercials for a certain type of car are shown. I mean, I tend to notice EVERY Subaru ad on TV, because I own a Forester and really love my car. On the other hand, if a commercial for a Lincoln or a Ford truck comes on, I automatically tune it out. So in my memory, the Subie commercials stand out mainly b/c I like Subies and pay attention more, but I wonder if my recollections accurately reflect the actual advertising scenario. Speaking of ad money spent per units sold, I'm really impressed with Hyundai and their Santa Fe. Perhaps it's different on the coasts, but here in the Midwest I can't recall EVER seeing a TV ad for the Santa Fe to this day, and they're selling SUV's at a good clip right along with Subaru and everyone else.

    I also agree with Frank and have noticed how Subaru tends to advertise on cheaper cable channels to maximize their ad dollars, and they can play to their markets as well. Anyone out there a Weather Channel junkie like me? Subaru runs ads constantly on the Weather Channel to tout AWD. On the other hand, on the networks I'm seeing a lot of ads for 'image' cars like the new Acura RS-X.

    Steve
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    ... I can really identify with Martina Navratilova!

    ;-)
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Steve- I was wondering the same thing regarding my bias towards Subaru ads. I'm always annoying my wife by announcing "Forester Ad" whenever one comes on but I almost unconsciously tune out Ford & GM ads.

    I've seen a few print ads for the Hyundai but I too can't recall seeing a TV one. Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing an Escape ad either although I've seen a couple of Liberty ones.

    -Frank P.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Sasquatch- Just wish I could identify with her bank account balance :-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru mentioned the shift to more Impreza production in press releases. Impy sales are up 100% or so, so demand is far in excess of what was expected.

    Forester sales are about on pace with last year. July 2000 was a record month, so July 2001 was not as good. Also keep in mind the redesigned model will appear in less than a year.

    Market share is a real measure of success, especially in hard times. Subaru's market share is up 10%. Sales are up in a down market. Sorry, but there is just no way to put a negative spin on fantasitic news like that. My guess is profits will be significatly higher this year than last.

    -juice
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I like the Subaru commercial where the one guy has a school bus for an SUV.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I see a lot of ads for the Subaru "All-wheel Drive Away" as the model year comes to an end and they try to clear inventory. I also see quite a few ads for the WRX. I don't see as many TV spots for the Hyundai Sante Fe but I do see the same one about 4 times a week . . . the one where they roll out a big red carpet down the side of a mountain so the Sante Fe can drive up the carpet in order to go "offroad". ;) I see more ads for Kia than I do for Hyundai. The ads for the Liberty are getting pretty frequent too. I haven't seen any ads for the Escape/Tribute since the old ad with the Tribute being escorted by a group of Miatas.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    ...anybody seen the Kia Minivan ad? They're running it here in the NYC Tristate area.
  • curreycurrey Member Posts: 144
    the one where the women takes the sales guy on a day of errands before deciding to buy the van?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hyundai has had a great year. Their sales are also up. Though part of that is because many of their models are at the beginning of their product life cycle.

    I think these gains are coming at the expense of Ford and GM, which have lost market share. There are far more models competing for your dollars now than there were 5 years ago. Plus the SUV market continues to expand, while car sales dwindle.

    That Kia ad is funny. The Koreans are expanding into new niches, so their sales will grow.

    I see the WRX ad from Subaru most often. Keep in mind they are also promoting their US Rally Team, which is literally spanking all comers in the series' first season.

    -juice
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Haven't seen that one? The one they play in the NYC area is where the father runs errands all over town with the kids and then comes home and the wife says "now you KNOW what I do all day..."
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I pay attention to TV car ads of all brands, well most brands anyway...

    Having said that, I still think, for a small company like Subaru, I see an awful lot of Subaru TV ads—and I see them on the major networks as well as the cable stations. They're everywhere.

    Bob
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    You state:I think these gains are coming at the expense of Ford and GM, which have lost market share. There are far more models competing for your dollars now than there were 5 years ago. Plus the SUV market continues to expand, while car sales dwindle.

    ----------
    The Ford Escape was also a latecommer to the mini-SUV market. Both the Escape and Sante-Fe are new in 2001 and were available around the same time in 2000. In Fords first year in this segment, it completly dominated the Sante-Fe, and most other mini-suv's in sales..
    92k vs 28k.

    I don't think that the Sante-Fe sales came at the expense of the Escape..
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    In another discussion group, someone mentioned how much better the Hyundai warranty was because they offer the 10 year warranty..

    But, 10 year/ 100000 miles for most folks really doesn't give any more warranty because most folks will hit 100k miles loooong before 10 years..

    I guess if you don't drive the Hyundai all that much the warranty will have extra value, but what fun would that be?
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Did ya see the commercial for the Dodge Durango where it's pitched as a perfect-sized SUV, compared to another one that got stuck in the garage and had to drive with the garage sitting on top of it? That was funny.

    The only Kia commercial that I've seen recently were the ones where the two neighbors, one with a Kia Optima & the other has a Toyota Camry, were comparing the options that either one had on their cars. I remember last year they showed the Sportage commercial where 2 groups of campers were arranging to meet at a cabin, and the one group driving the Honda CR-V got stuck trying to climb the hill.
  • mudpuddlemudpuddle Member Posts: 26
    Please consider that Ford (and Chevrolet) have a dealer at every crossroads in Everytown, USA. Try to find a Subaru, Hyundai, Mazda dealer in a town with a population under 15K. M-a-y-b-e you'll find one sharing a Ford/Chev/DC lot. If you figure the percentages, number of dealers vs sales numbers, I think you'll find that the Ford Escape sales numbers aren't that impressive. If Hyundai wasn't selling the Santa Fe this year, what SUV would have picked up most of those sales ??
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    The Santa Fe doesn't pose as a threat to sales of the Escape. However, it does lure buyers away from Ford. I think that's what mudpuddle is trying to say, bess.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    I understand your point, but the origional poster claimed that Ford was loosing market share because of the Sante-Fe.. Given that both the Escape and Sante-Fe were introduced at the same time, then it is impossible for Ford to have 'lost' market share.

    I then showed how Ford out sold the Sante-Fe by a 4 to 1 margin..

    The Ford sales number are quite impressive.

    You claim that because hyundai doesn't have as many dealerships it could not compete with Fords numbers. Why doesn't hyundai have as many dealerships? Because there is not enough demand? Or maybe not enough production capacity to support more dealerships? Maybe there are other factors as well.. If someone chooses to not buy a Hyundai because they can't find a dealer thats close enough, then thats a valid reason to choose another brand..
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I am the original poster. I did not mean to imply that the Sante Fe is the sole reason Ford is losing market share, or that the Escape would be the model suffering the sales losses.

    I didn't mean at the expense of the Escape, I meant Explorer, primarily. The small SUV segment is growing a lot, and it's stealing sales away from bigger SUVs and even from sedans (like Taurus). Escape is a sales hit, no doubt.

    Even current Explorer owners looking for a new Ford may end up in the smaller Escape, especially since after new mid-size SUV sticker shock. Those are easily into the $30s well equipped.

    The bottom line? People have many more choices now, and among them are many fine small SUVs that did not exist a few years back. Collectively, these are hurting sales of the Explorer and Grand Cherokee.

    I'm a bit surprised that Liberty it outselling the Escape, though, especially since D/C admits it priced it about $2k too high. We'll see if the sales are sustainable long-term.

    -juice
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    Thanks for your clarification.. I think your right that many folks will choose the smaller suv's over the mid-sized ones. I was looking at an Explorer, and then found the Escape had the same front and rear seat room as the Explorer and was significantly less expensive..
    The only difference now is I might have to use the roof rack on the Escape on longer trips whereas with the Explorer I would never need to use the roof rack.. I'm willing to live with that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You know who may have an even bigger problem? Ford's own Land Rover Freelander.

    It's smaller and offers just 174hp. Initially they said pricing would be just under $30k, but they've announced a much lower starting price of $25,600, probably due to competition from their own Escape.

    Volumes are small, though. They'd be happy to sell in a year what Escapes cover in just a month.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think you're right juice. It's going to have to be priced very aggressively to do well. Otherwise, it will appeal mainly to those who want/need the Land Rover "designer label."

    Bob
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    The guy who designed the Freelander (which has been on sale for a while in Europe), was used to design the Escape. If you put them side-by-side, you will notice that they DO almost look alike. Just as the Tribute and Escape are somewhat look alike, but are somewhat different in the same respect. The only thing I would want to see added to the Escape would have to be the Rear tire mount like the Freelander has. Mabye as an option like the sidebars or sunroof. I can also see a Convertable option comming soon.

    Odie
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    One thing I prefer is NOT having the spare tire on the rear door.. Either put it underneath or do like the folks down under and put it on the roof..
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Will not have any problems selling, it only has to sell 22,000 units to sell out.
    Odiel, I'm afraid I disagree with you entirely. Other than the general outline, which almost all SUV's have, they share no design elements. I don't know of any modern vehicle that was designed by one person, all manufacturers use design teams today. And I know for a fact that the Escape was not designed by the same people, we were still owned by BMW when it was designed.
    The base Freelander does offer a couple of items standard that no small SUV does. These include 4 wheel traction control, Hill Descent Control, and a 5 speed steptronic transmission.
    Bess, spare tire placement is always a compromise, but we've found that for off-roading, mounted on the back is best. And Freelander does off-road very well.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.