Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

ateixeira

In Europe they can't give away the V6s. The 4 cylinder are more desirable given their gas prices, and the upcoming diesel is the real gem (to the Europeans).

It'll be interesting to see the hybrid coming next year.

-juice

mad0865

Being naive, but why doesn't Honda put out a diesel CRV? Just about every gas station I go to in NJ sells diesel, get great gas mileage, a lot cleaner burning. Heck, I wish a lot more manufacturers would put out a diesel truck here in the states. No one is bold enough to do it? Won't sell? My brother who lives in England says that just about all cars out there are diesel, and you get used to the noise of the engine and the smell of the fumes. Just a thought.

-mad

tincup47

Since several manufacturers attempted to market diesel engined vehicles in the 80's and they flopped miserably sales wise, there is a reluctance to try again. Also with US diesel fuel having much higher sulfer content than what is available in Europe there are fuel injection reliability and particulate emission questions about diesel vehicles in this country. Until the sulfer content goes down and gasoline becomes more expensive (and scarce) I doubt if you will see many diesel enginned vehicles in the US.

ateixeira

You beat me to it. Our diesel isn't as good as the stuff they get in Europe.

Also, diesel here isn't necessarily cheaper than gas. You do get better efficiency, but most gas stations around me actually charge more for diesel. At my last fill up diesel was $1.81, more than premium, even. Regular was $1.44, a rather huge difference that effectively erases any advantage in mpg.

In Europe diesel is cheaper than gas. In Brazil, it's much cheaper - about half the price. If Americans could get high quality diesel for 72 cents a gallon, people would flock to them.

BTW, Honda is relying on Isuzu to manufacture diesels, so I would not be surprised to see a CR-V in Europe with an Isuzu diesel. Here in the USA? Very doubtful.

-juice

diploid

Then is it really a Honda?

What diesel gas stations? I'm in central jersey and I only know of one gas station that sells diesel.

mad0865

I'm right on the border of Somerset & Hunterdon county, and there are at least 4 gas stations on rt22 that sell Diesel fuel. There is always some kind of "duelie" sittin' there getting diesel, and prices for it are relative to somewhere between 1.35 to 1.44 / gallon. Thanks for the US vs Europe diesel debate.

-mad

diploid

Ahhh good ole rt 22 and the notorious Somerville circle...

ateixeira

I guess it would be a Honduzu.

Diesel availability is hit or miss, but it sales went up so would the number of stations with diesel.

What I don't like is that it's usually only available at one pump, and you may have to wait in line even if other pumps are free.

Then again, you wouldn't have to refuel as often.

-juice

scape2

was my choice. I own a 2002 V6 XLT in black with all options but leather and sunroof. Escapes V6 is tops in its class and does make a huge difference over the 4cyl models. Try packing 4 adults and gear in a 4cyl SUV and hauling it up a 7percent grade... you'll see. The Escape handles wonderfully. Even with all the bad publicity initially the Escapes are selling.. My choice was down to the Jeep Liberty and Escape. I didn't like the MPG of the Liberty, the large tire hindering rear views, the swing open tailgate and the round headlights. I felt the road manners were better in the Escape. The road is where over 90percent of your time is driving for over 95percent of SUV owners. You can knock the powertrain of the Escape, fact is this is where the majority of drivers go, on the street. I have taken the Escape up logging roads to my favorite fishing spots and it handles them just fine for me!

diploid

is not tops in its class. That distinction goes to the V6 in the Liberty.

FrankMc

HP 210 vs 201 and torque 235 vs 197 it's added weight negates that advantage. The Escape 6 and Liberty 6 have roughly the same pounds/ torque ratio.

Frank

ateixeira

You didn't like the tailgate? I thought it was clever, how the glass pops open by itself, and it opens to the curb side if you parallel park.

I think it's 215hp, right? Yes, power/weight is similar.

-juice

scape2

weight is what takes away the advantage in HP. Granted the Liberty has 210HP vs the 200 on the Escape, but, take a look at the weight of both vehicles. The Escape feels more nimble and is quicker 0-60. My second choice was the Liberty. My wife and I decided we just couldn't get over the round headlights, side open tailgate, tire on the back(can't see out), window controls on the center console and a few other quirks. The V6 in the Escape is smooth and very responsive.
The Hyundia styling is just a turn off for us. I know its a personal preference, just not mine.

ateixeira

Edmunds does say 210hp for the Liberty, my bad. The same engine makes more power in the Ram.

The Escape has 201hp per Emunds, and should be a tad quicker.

-juice

auburnblu

Bottom line at the moment, Liberty is not available with 0.0% and Escape is. Sure I like the engine of the Liberty better and I like the fact the 2wd is rwd. But the actual price gap right now at least short term is tremendous. Having a $750 loyalty rebate and X-Plan pricing, doesn't hurt the Escape in my eyes either.

Actually picking up one that's arriving Monday Silver/Graphite Choice XLS V-6 MSRP $20,285 X-Plan $18,901. That's pre tax/tag and pre rebate. I'm getting a V-6 Escape after tax for under $19,500 and financing it for 0.0%.

ateixeira

GM, Ford, and Toyota all have no interest financing going on now. That helps the Tracker, TrailBlazer, Escape, Explorer, RAV4, 4Runner, and Highlander become a little more affordable.

-juice

diploid

Has 0% APR for a longer period and it applies to ALL their models. Frankly, the only advantage I see in this is that you could pay less per month for a Vitara than you would for a Tracker.

vin_weasel

Up here in Canada almost all of the dealerships, especially the big 3, have 0%. I heard an ad from a DC dealership that always advertises that they had the Liberty at 0% along with all of their other cars.

wildten

i bought a liberty in august. about 3 weeks later, the car started having problems. first, it was the front tire hitting the front shield, it was fixed. second, when the windows rolled down then up and down again, it made clicking noise. it was not fixed. the technician told me that the libertyS did the same thing. third, when the car was driven with the A/C off, the vent blew warm air to the window shield that made the window foggy. it was not fixed yet. fourth, when the a/c was turned on, it smelled like mildew. it was fixed. now when the car goes over the speed bump, it makes squeaking noise in the back. Guys, this is my first new car with Jeep and that is my last new car with Jeep. no more jeep products.
a friend of mine bought a 2001 Jeep grand Cherokee about 2 months ago b4 i bought the liberty, the car started having a/c problem.

Please read the title of "liberty problems" and u will be amazingly find out the multiple problems on the liberty. for that kind of money, i can buy another suv next time instead.

jrizzo106

What is X Plan Pricing? Price mentioned is much lower than quotes I've gotten

scape2

vs Liberty in my region is very competetive. I picked up my 2002 Escape XLT V6 with all options but leather and sunroof for $22,800. I thought I did pretty well considering what Edmunds/MSN show as invoice for these options. A few quirks to get used to on the Escape is the column shifter and the key placement..

beachfish

I didn't like the tailgate either. I doesn't open to the curb side if, like I do, you live on the left side of a one-way street. I really like my new Forester. And everything I've seen has referred to a 90/10 power split on the models with AT and sensors to transfer power before a wheel slips.

I haven't had it to the Outer Banks yet, but the fishing usually doesn't get really good until Thanksgiving or so.

John

ateixeira

If that turns out to be the norm for the Liberty, that would be a real shame. I really liked the one I test drove, and it seemed to me that Jeep had made progress in the area of build quality.

John: I went surf fishing in September, and it was great. Flounder, croaker, and yellow tail galore. We BBQ'd them - yummy! The Forester was great in the sand.

Your auto is different than my manual. Mine is 50/50, while yours starts 80/20 and then adjusts as needed. We had a debate as to the exact numbers, but our SoA rep tells us that 80/20 is the most accurate number.

The cool thing is that it can adjust the F/R split proactively by using several sensors in the wheels and the throttle and brake pedals, so it doesn't wait until you start slipping to adjust the AWD.

My friend Bob took his auto Forester in the OBX and it really posed no challenge at all because the sand was wet. I'm sure you'll be fine, too.

Happy fishing.

-juice

auburnblu

The easiest way to get X-Plan pricing is to work for a company that is deemed a supplier of Ford. Tons of companies have this. Also you can join of all things an aviation enthusiast organization www.eaa.org for $40 and get X-Plan pricing through them. X-plan pricing on Escapes amounts to just about invoice on XLS models to about $200 under invoice on XLTs.

stever

Check out the link in the Additional Resources box in the left sidebar. (sorry, no Forester in the test, and the Tribute was left out since it's a twin of the Escape).

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

ateixeira

I guess the new CR-V wasn't available yet, either.

Hmm, Escape is quickest at 9.3s to 60. Interesting, both the Washington Post and Motorweek reached 60mph in an automatic Forester in just 9.1 seconds.

-juice

tc_i_am

Oh gawd, is that comparo flawed as usual. Where do I begin?

9.3s for the Escape? Every other automotive journal I've read has it going faster than that and the Santa Fe going slower than 11s.

I love this quote: "Although the Santa Fe didn't sport the biggest engine in our mini SUV comparison test, its 2.7-liter V6 was strong and torquey. The 177-horsepower V6..."
Strong and torquey? It's torque rating is less than it's HP rating! And they got the figures wrong, 177 is the torque, 181 is the HP.

Amateurs....

rsholland

Yeah no problems, and I didn't even fool with the tire pressure. The tires did "squeak" however, as I drove across the damp sand, not unlike when you wear sandals on the sand.

Bob

ateixeira

That's funny, I didn't notice that. Maybe because the sand was dry?

Also, I went with wider tires, 225 section width, aired down to 18psi. Did you air down?

-juice

rsholland

I left the air pressure alone.

Bob

ateixeira

Wow, so much for people needing a more capable SUV for surf fishing. Fully inflated 215s?

-juice

rsholland

lower the pressure for sand. I do if I need to, and I carry all beach stuff just in case (air pump, air gauge, board for jack, and shovel).

I worry about damaging the tire with low air pressure, so I try not to do it unless I really need to.

Bob

scname

test reached 60mph in 8.5 seconds V6 automatic. Consumer Report tested Tribute at 9.3 seconds. Car and Driver rates Tribute at 8.2 and Escape at 8.5 seconds.

ateixeira

Yeah, lots of sample variance, and also lots of variance with different drivers and methods of testing.

In reality, 30-50 and 50-70 are more meaningful, since they simulate a real world passing situation. I'm sure the torquey V6 does well there.

-juice

ateixeira

The name of that Mitsu I was thinking of is "Airtrek", at least in Japan. They may restyle and rename it for the US. It's due next summer.

-juice

gsogymrat

This comparision makes me realize how subjective these reviewers are. They seem more concerned with how a vehicle looks than the practical aspects. Ed Hellwig say the Xterra would be the only vehicle he would drive because it doesn't look "cute". Talk about a victim of advertising brainwashing. They rank the Ford Escape as number 1 even though Ford's CEO admits that their quality is "not what it should be" and it has been plagued by recalls. They go on about quality of the plastic of the climate control knobs but don't give any comparision about how effective the climate control is. I hope Edmunds doesn't pay these people for their opinions.

stever

Juice, if you have more info, please post it in the Mitsubishi Airtrek discussion. We're hurting for news about it. Thanks!

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

p0926

While I thought the article interesting, I was bothered that the individual observations sometimes directly contradicted parts of the overall write-up. In addition, the frequent disagreement between individual testers sent conflicting signals as to which vehicle was better. Of course, in their defense, the varied opinions did offer a chance to view each vehicle from a different perspective.

-Frank P.

ateixeira

Yuck, I much preferred the old XTerra. The new one's light grey cladding around the head lights make it look like it's wearing glasses. So the old studly jock now looks like a geek, IMHO.

And they rated a first aid kit as one of the most important features? Those are so gimmicky. How about rear disk brakes? Heated seats? Traction or stability control?

12mpg on premium? Buy Exxon stock.

Frank: that's why you gotta drive them all yourself. :-)

-juice

scape2

Image, Image, Image. All these put downs of the "cute utes" not being able to perform offroad is a joke. Over 90 percent of people drive ON PAVEMENT over 90 percent of the time!! All this macho, offroading stuff is a joke! Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Honda and those other who chose to stay with car like rides/frames are the smart ones in my book. They chose the majority of the market as their target. As far as quality issues with the Escape/Tribute.. These were INITIAL issues that are long gone. Granted, the plastics could be a bit nicer... but are nicer than some of the competition in this market..
I test drove an Xterra and did not like the ride, the V6 was VERY, VERY weak for how heavy the vehicle is. 170HP and 200ft/lbs of torque don't cut it for the Xterra.. That is why Nissan had to bandaid it with a Supercharger....

suvshopper4

http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolsu.asp

Gentlemen, start your engines.

diploid

Well I haven't test driven the Nissan, but from what the reviews are stating, even the new engines don't cut it for the Xterra.

gsogymrat

There are more Santa Fe's on the road than Tributes? It must be a regional thing because there are LOTS of Tributes in Greensboro, NC and I have seen maybe 2 or 3 Santa Fe's this year. I think Mazdas in general are more popular in this area. People here can't even pronounce Hyundai.

diploid

See more Santa Fe's than Tributes. I also see more of the Suzuki XL-7's than Tributes.

scname

Ford offers 0 interest on Escape and dealers are selling near invoice. That makes it about $3500 cheaper than comparable Tribute. Sales are down from 5359 to 2902. BTW, Tribute's new colors ain't going to help either. Too weird.

ateixeira

Escape, Liberty, PT Cruiser, CR-V, ... so 3 out of the top 4 are car-based.

The Nissan V6 is OK down low but feels wheezy once you get going. Imagine turbo lag, it has the exact opposite.

You gotta remember sales are cumulative. So even though the Liberty outsells the RAV4, there are many, many more RAV4s on the road today.

Went to a Mazda dealer yesterday to get a new gas cap for my Miata. Sizes are odd so only the dealer carries them. $25, ouch! The lady in front of me paid almost $9 for an oil filter. Mazda parts are painfully expensive compared to Subaru's.

Any how, looked at the MPV, Protoge5, and Tribute. The MPV needs the 3l engine, so I'll wait to test it then. The Tribute is gorgeous outside, but the interior doesn't do much for me. From the column shifter to the plastics, it doesn't feel like it belongs in the Mazda line up.

I did like the Protoge5, though. Cute, cute little car. Spunky yellow color, rear disc brakes (Tribute has drums), 16" alloys and very sporty tires (50 series). The white faced guages were cool, as were some interior touches. The headliner, carpet, and sun visors were econobox-ish, but overall I think it's a better balanced than the Tribute. Handled and braked nicely, but could use more power. Great price.

If they could put the MP3 engine in there, and make cross bars standard on the roof rack for utility, many people would be better served by the sporiter, more car-like Protoge5.

-juice

suvshopper4

You may not believe this...

http://carpoint.msn.com/browse/win_2879.asp

ateixeira

Think about it - anyone that can look beyond the styling had to have loved the rest of the beast. Also, GM gave dozens away to middle managers, so there may have been some ballot stuffing if they were included.

-juice

tc_i_am

I have to agree with juice.

I mean come on, if one was silly enough to plunk down $20k+ for a hacked up mini-van (a Montana mini-van at that), do you think you'd admit to anyone that you had buyer's remorse?

I'm glad the the owners love it, just keep it out of my neighborhood. 8-P

scname

looks pretty good to me, spacious, comfortable functional , lots of convenience. I'd place its inside above all mini and mid SUV I've been in except ML320(great leather).

Auto World magazine is owned by AMI , yes , the one got Anthrax attacked. There's a report several test cars are trapped in the basement of the building.