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Different strokes for different folks...
Yea, the new "Azthrax model" joke seems to be getting around.
It certainly must not be the most popular SUV, or the highest quality, or the most appealing. If so, its sales numbers would have it somewhere other than last place..
It really isn't any more expensive that other mini-suv's so there must be something keeping people from buying it..
Hmmm... I wonder what that could be?
I have not driven the Liberty, but only sat in one on the lot. It had a comfortable feel to it... I have not looked at the crash ratings for the Liberty or how it is rated among consumers in choice for quality yet, but I was just curious if anyone has any input on these two as compared to each other. Thanks!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Maybe times have changed. With rear windows that roll down and 3rd row seats that tumble away Honda Odyssey-style, the MPV is pretty innovative.
The Liberty is much better off-road and can tow much more.
The Forester can run circles around the Liberty on a winding road, and gets much better gas mileage. Power is good, not overwhelming nor underwhelming.
The Liberty needs to be "carefully" optioned to get a decent (IMO) vehicle, because you don't get much in terms of standard equipment. The Forester, even the base model, is very nicely equipped from the get-go. ABS is optional on all Libertys, yet standard on all Foresters. Full-time 4WD is optional on all but the most expensive Liberty, yet standard on all Foresters. There are many more such comparisons to be made.
As a "daily driver" the choice for me is clearly the Forester, even though I do like the Liberty a lot. I spend most of my time on-road, and that's where the Forester shines.
I do agree, the Liberty is MUCH better looking, however.
Bob
I really like the MPV otherwise. Even the DX has a nice cloth interior, with no cheap vinyl like the base Caravans. It's nice and compact, with great packaging. It even beats the Odyssey in two ways - the middle seats slides over even if you have a child in there, and the windows go down so they're not in prison.
What's the topic again? Oops, sorry.
I don't like the Tribute's interior as much. To me it seems to have lots of cheap plastic, perhaps more Ford influence than the MPV does? Didn't like the front seats without a separate head rest, then again I don't like the ones on my Miata either.
Liberty or Forester? Can't go wrong with either, IMO. Liberty is my favorite among the off-roaders, while the Forester is what I own and IMO the best car-based SUV.
So, ask yourself how you are really going to use it, and what else really matters to you. If you really and truly need to travel off road, under heavy duty conditions, pick the Liberty. I prefer it's paramilitay styling, too. It's also the new kid on the block, so it'll turn heads for a while.
Then again, if you want a fuel efficient, user friendly commuter, and just have to face the occasional snow storm or dirt/gravel trail, the Forester is cheaper and will better suit your needs.
IMO most people fall into the latter category, but would rather think of themselves as being in the former. Your call.
-juice
They keep telling my my Escape can't even go on a gravel road! I fish and have had no problems using the logging roads or access roads to get to my favorite fishing spots in my Escape. Granted, I would never take the Escape into an area that may twist or bend the frame in anyway. I also tow a wave runner with gear, 4 people in my Escape and it pulls like a champ!
201hp was best-in-class for the Escape/Tribute until the Liberty crashed the party, perhaps Mazda could counter punch by putting that engine in the Tribute next? Sure would back up the Zoom Zoom claims.
-juice
The recent comparison test in Edmunds even said that the Escape's V-6, with its no-longer-best-in-class 200hp, is more than adequate for it.
The next Forester is supposed to get a turbo, to push it into 200hp territory. It'll challenge the Escape/Tribute twins for best-in-class acceleration.
Anyone seen the Vue yet? Also, the Freelander is arriving real soon.
-juice
Rumors have it Subaru may come out with a 2.5l turbo instead, probably light pressure like Volvo and VW offer. That would produce 200hp or more, though, and coupled with a 3200 lb curb weight would make for quick getaways.
-juice
An interesting & confusing twist would be a 2.5l Turbo Impreza RS Sedan.
-juice
Forester needs a V6, more ground clearance, more towing capability, more room...
Bob
Forester would never get a V6, though it might get an H6. Subaru does boxers.
-juice
-Frank P.
I'm considering buying a small SUV and find myself thinking about the Forester, Tribute, and Liberty in no particular order. I live on top of a mountain in Western North Carolina (3000+ ft). So I do frequently encounter snow/ice. Mostly paved road driver. About 20K miles a year. No hard core off road intentions. Avid cyclist.....and it's a big advantage to carry bikes inside in upright position (although not a requirement). I'm also very intrigued by the recent wave of 0% financing. Again....I apologize for not having time to scan through all previous messages. I'm sure lots of info is available.
Which vehicle should I purchase????
Welcome to the boards! I am sure all our members who have experience with these vehicles will be delighted to share their experiences!
tidester
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SUVs
With such an important purchase you will want to take the time to gather all the proper information to make the right decision.
-Frank P.
Of course, being an owner, I am of course biased towards the Forester. I also know that living in western NC, you see plenty of Subarus which should tell you something about their ability to handle snow and ice.
Each of these vehicles has its strong points but the 3 are significantly different from each other. I highly recommend you take each for a test drive and go with the one that you like the best. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
-Frank P.
Sure, some folks will prefer to purchase a vehicle if they have a dealership close by, however I don't believe this is the main factor of why the Escape outsells the competition..
There are many other reasons that better explain why the Escape outsold everyone else for a while..
a. v6, and all that implies.
b. looks more like a truck
c. the Ford name
d. value
e. newer models of vehicles tend to sell better. When the re-designed CRV hits the streets, it's sales will see a boost..
f. production capacity (although like the number of dealerships, if there is enough demand then manufactures can afford to increase capacity).
Ford can support a large number of dealerships because there is enough demand for their products to support that many dealerships..
The number of dealerships probaby is a factor, but far from the leading reason the Escape out sells the others..
-Frank P.
Subaru is a niche manufacturer and doesn't even try to build in the volumes that Ford does, but maybe that's a good thing they aren't rushing production (obviously Ford did). The Gunma plant is running at full capacity (meeting a reasonable quality standard) and they sell every one they make.
Only better in one way? Nonsense. Reliability, AWD that is truly full-time, longer warranty, fuel efficiency, ride quality, roof rack capacity, payload capacities, much better standard equipment, lower liftover, etc.
The Escape has a lot going for it, including a roomy back seat and the V6, but let's not get crazy, it has lots, I mean lots, of room for improvement.
-juice
Some twins are built at different plants, and remember it's up to the dealership to do the pre-delivery inspection and to service the car, which plays a big role in long-term reliability.
-juice
Test drove a Liberty today. Sport model with 27B (I think B?) package. +/- 23500K also. Frankly, I though it was awesome. I've owned two Cherokees, and 95 and a 98. I really liked them, they go well in the snow. But this is a major improvement.
I'll test drive a Forester in the next few days.
All this "offroad" ability hype makes me chuckle. Over 90 percent of 4x4 vehicles never even see a gravel road! The only SUV in this category I would take to a severe offroad trail would be the Xterra and Liberty. I admit, I use mine as a commuter, snow day, ice day, fishing hole, tow my jet ski's vehicle....
scape: it's cool, we're still friends. ;-) The Escape's power puts pressure on Subaru for their next generation, so it's a good thing to have competition out there.
I urge anyone shopping around to check out crashtest.com for a summary of all auto industry crash tests. The Forester has the right to brag, IMO, becuase it did "Good" or "Excellent" in every single category, so it's consistently safe. IIHS is the toughest, so no surprise Subaru and Hyundai tout the results.
I actually really like Mazdas, and currently own two of them. But I prefer the Protege5 and MPV over the Tribute, personally.
FYI Santa Fe also got "worse than average" in reliability. That's disappointing, I really thought they'd do better than that.
-juice
You wont get the gas mileage or the reliability of the Subaru, but not having to worry about having your bikes stolen or damaged is probably worth it (if you love your bikes like the rest of us cycling nuts). I have a Ford Focus and would like to trade it in for one of these two, but am unsure which one to get. Ford service sucks, but I have no idea about Jeep service. The Liberty is also in it's first year, and I hope it's not anything like my first-year Focus (8 recalls and a TON of TSBs - look at www.nhtsa.gov).
Good Luck!
The Escape does have a lot going for it and if you need the towing capacity and/or frequently transport adults in the rear seat then the Escape is the better choice (I know the Liberty also has a hefty towing rating but not sure about rear seat comfort).
By the way, I think it's a shame that Ford doesn't offer a manual tranny option with the 6-cyl Escape. And what's up with that column shifter?
-Frank P.
I have a hitch and hitch mounted bike rack on my Forester. It comes with a lock, and it keeps the bikes from touching the car. It also tilts out of the way so you can open the hatch even with bikes on there.
If you are interested, I have some photos here. Click the right arrow to see a pic of the tilting feature.
-juice
The thing I don't like about bike racks is that they leave the bike exposed to the elements and uncaring people. Maybe it is unreasonable, but I just can't do that without feeling uncomfortable about it.
I don't mind carrying bikes on the exterior, because mine end up getting dirty anyway, and they're not $1000 bikes.
-juice
I seriously doubt a bike will fit upright (sans front wheel)in a Forester. But it's not as big a deal with that vehichle. The big bike rack manufacturers have trays that fit directly to Subura cross bars and the car is low enough that reach is not a problem. With the Jeep/Tribute/etc. it's not as easy to use a roof rack on a daily basis......hence the desire of interior fit.
As a side note, I have nightmares about crushing $2000+ bikes by pulling into the garage while bikes are mounted to roof rack!
IIRC, I saw a Hyundai accessory when I bought my Santa Fe that allows you to carry two bikes upright in the cargo hold. Not sure how much disassembly would be needed, but it might be worth checking out.
I know you didn't mention the Santa Fe specfically, but hey, it's in the forum title. It's definitely worth a test drive.
-Jason
Perhaps if you deflate the tires ...! ;-)
tidester
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SUVs