Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

1293032343596

Comments

  • tc_i_amtc_i_am Member Posts: 52
    I'd say it's over the top, cheap and inconsistent. The leather grade is one of the worst I've ever seen.

    Different strokes for different folks...

    Yea, the new "Azthrax model" joke seems to be getting around.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    Aztec as the most loved compact suv? Using what critera?

    It certainly must not be the most popular SUV, or the highest quality, or the most appealing. If so, its sales numbers would have it somewhere other than last place..
    It really isn't any more expensive that other mini-suv's so there must be something keeping people from buying it..
  • tc_i_amtc_i_am Member Posts: 52
    "It really isn't any more expensive that other mini-suv's so there must be something keeping people from buying it.. "

    Hmmm... I wonder what that could be?
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    ... I'm just the messenger / link-paster!
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Heads will roll for this, suvshopper...
  • jordiehjordieh Member Posts: 2
    Ok, I skipped most of the middle of the comments because I got bored not reading anything about the Jeep Liberty... I would like to compare the Suburu Forester (eventhough it is the ugly-duckling) to the Liberty.

    I have not driven the Liberty, but only sat in one on the lot. It had a comfortable feel to it... I have not looked at the crash ratings for the Liberty or how it is rated among consumers in choice for quality yet, but I was just curious if anyone has any input on these two as compared to each other. Thanks!
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The MPV is apparently getting the 3.0L V6 engine from the Tribute/Escape for '02. Too bad they don't bring over the AWD version over here from Japan.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Well the previous generation MPV had AWD and rear doors that open like a sedan's...and the public just didn't accept it.

    Maybe times have changed. With rear windows that roll down and 3rd row seats that tumble away Honda Odyssey-style, the MPV is pretty innovative.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I own an '01 Forester S Premium, have driven two Libertys, and have studied both models very carefully. Comments:

    The Liberty is much better off-road and can tow much more.

    The Forester can run circles around the Liberty on a winding road, and gets much better gas mileage. Power is good, not overwhelming nor underwhelming.

    The Liberty needs to be "carefully" optioned to get a decent (IMO) vehicle, because you don't get much in terms of standard equipment. The Forester, even the base model, is very nicely equipped from the get-go. ABS is optional on all Libertys, yet standard on all Foresters. Full-time 4WD is optional on all but the most expensive Liberty, yet standard on all Foresters. There are many more such comparisons to be made.

    As a "daily driver" the choice for me is clearly the Forester, even though I do like the Liberty a lot. I spend most of my time on-road, and that's where the Forester shines.

    I do agree, the Liberty is MUCH better looking, however.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Heard that, Drew. I visited a Mazda dealer to buy parts for my Miata, and checked out several models. I ended up testing the Protoge5 for fun (nice, needs only 20hp or so) but asked the sales guy to call when the MPV with more (some) power arrived.

    I really like the MPV otherwise. Even the DX has a nice cloth interior, with no cheap vinyl like the base Caravans. It's nice and compact, with great packaging. It even beats the Odyssey in two ways - the middle seats slides over even if you have a child in there, and the windows go down so they're not in prison.

    What's the topic again? Oops, sorry.

    I don't like the Tribute's interior as much. To me it seems to have lots of cheap plastic, perhaps more Ford influence than the MPV does? Didn't like the front seats without a separate head rest, then again I don't like the ones on my Miata either.

    Liberty or Forester? Can't go wrong with either, IMO. Liberty is my favorite among the off-roaders, while the Forester is what I own and IMO the best car-based SUV.

    So, ask yourself how you are really going to use it, and what else really matters to you. If you really and truly need to travel off road, under heavy duty conditions, pick the Liberty. I prefer it's paramilitay styling, too. It's also the new kid on the block, so it'll turn heads for a while.

    Then again, if you want a fuel efficient, user friendly commuter, and just have to face the occasional snow storm or dirt/gravel trail, the Forester is cheaper and will better suit your needs.

    IMO most people fall into the latter category, but would rather think of themselves as being in the former. Your call.

    -juice
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    about all this hoopla the reviewers like to drum up about offroad ability. Stats show that over 90 percent of SUV's barely even see a gravel road.
    They keep telling my my Escape can't even go on a gravel road! I fish and have had no problems using the logging roads or access roads to get to my favorite fishing spots in my Escape. Granted, I would never take the Escape into an area that may twist or bend the frame in anyway. I also tow a wave runner with gear, 4 people in my Escape and it pulls like a champ!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, had an interesting thought the other day. Mazda used Ford's Duratec engine for its new Mazda 6, and it puts out 219hp, with variable valve timing.

    201hp was best-in-class for the Escape/Tribute until the Liberty crashed the party, perhaps Mazda could counter punch by putting that engine in the Tribute next? Sure would back up the Zoom Zoom claims.

    -juice
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    But as several people have already pointed out, it's a heavy vehicle.

    The recent comparison test in Edmunds even said that the Escape's V-6, with its no-longer-best-in-class 200hp, is more than adequate for it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but way more than adequate is just the ticket for some folks! :-)

    The next Forester is supposed to get a turbo, to push it into 200hp territory. It'll challenge the Escape/Tribute twins for best-in-class acceleration.

    Anyone seen the Vue yet? Also, the Freelander is arriving real soon.

    -juice
  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    rumour has it for model year 2004
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep. Japan has had a 250hp edition of the Forester for years. Thing is, it's a 2.0l turbo, and Subaru didn't feel it was well suited for US buyers, who tend to buy automatics and like low end torque (rather than high end power).

    Rumors have it Subaru may come out with a 2.5l turbo instead, probably light pressure like Volvo and VW offer. That would produce 200hp or more, though, and coupled with a 3200 lb curb weight would make for quick getaways.

    -juice
  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    Yes, a light pressure turbo 2.5 would be the ticket for the Forester and Legacy.

    An interesting & confusing twist would be a 2.5l Turbo Impreza RS Sedan.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too much overlap IMO. They'll put the 2.5l LPT in the Forester and the regular Legacy (non-Outback).

    -juice
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    my opinion. Saw the advertisement pitting the Escape against the Forester. They say the Escape finished behind the Forester in crashtests???? Only one category, offset, otherwise the Escape does BETTER than the Forester. Check right here at Edmunds.. They also pit a low end Escape against a high end loaded Forester. The Forester has Foglamps, wheels, ect.. Of course it looks better!
    Forester needs a V6, more ground clearance, more towing capability, more room...
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a company does comparison advertising, like what Subaru is now doing, they leave themselves wide open for counter claims. I'm not sure I agree with the new Subie ad campaign for precisely that reason. As the saying goes: " People (in this case cars) who live in glass houses..."

    Bob
  • crashproofcrashproof Member Posts: 19
    Goes to show you who their competition is. They know it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Absolutely. They've been pretty bold in their ads, comparing Foresters to the CR-V, RAV4, Escape, even RX300.

    Forester would never get a V6, though it might get an H6. Subaru does boxers.

    -juice
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    So does Bill Clinton, if I recall correctly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    he he he :-)
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Of course Subaru is going to play up the Forester's strengths. The ad I saw compared items that came standard of the Forester vs optional on the Escape (I.e. AWD and ABS). I assume this is to counter Ford's claim that the Escape is cheaper (when comparing base models). Re the off-set crash test results, a number of agencies such as CU consider the off-set crash test as the most realistic of the various tests.

    -Frank P.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    dream of selling even 1/2 the number of Escapes/Tributes that will sell in one year. I test drove the Forester and in my opinion the Escape was superior in road manners, comfort, power, room... should I go on? Besides the Forester bests the Escape in only ONE category.. Take a lookat how the stats really stack up right here at Edmunds at that!
  • sdcxcsdcxc Member Posts: 6
    I'm new to the board and don't have time to scroll through all the messages at the moment.

    I'm considering buying a small SUV and find myself thinking about the Forester, Tribute, and Liberty in no particular order. I live on top of a mountain in Western North Carolina (3000+ ft). So I do frequently encounter snow/ice. Mostly paved road driver. About 20K miles a year. No hard core off road intentions. Avid cyclist.....and it's a big advantage to carry bikes inside in upright position (although not a requirement). I'm also very intrigued by the recent wave of 0% financing. Again....I apologize for not having time to scan through all previous messages. I'm sure lots of info is available.

    Which vehicle should I purchase????
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    sdcxc,

    Welcome to the boards! I am sure all our members who have experience with these vehicles will be delighted to share their experiences!

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs
  • lovethosesuvslovethosesuvs Member Posts: 95
    Like you, we are also running short of time and may not have time to post everything we did before. Suffice it to say I love my Escape! I don't live on a mountain though.

    With such an important purchase you will want to take the time to gather all the proper information to make the right decision.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    scape2- By all means go on ;-) (I had no idea that the Escape was the greatest invention since sliced bread). There's no question that the Escape is an appealing vehicle with a lot going for it. However, it is far from perfect and the #1 reason it will out-sell the imported competition is because Ford has 3 times the number of dealerships.

    -Frank P.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    sdcxc- The Liberty is the best choice for off-roading but since you don't really need that capability there's no need for you to put up with its rotten gas mileage. The Tribute offers an attractive blend of SUV and car like qualities. The Forester is the most car like of the 3. For instance, while the driver still has an up-right seating position, it's lower than in most other mini-SUVs. However, because of the lower center of gravity, the Forester handles twisty roads better while still having enough ground clearance to do light off-roading.

    Of course, being an owner, I am of course biased towards the Forester. I also know that living in western NC, you see plenty of Subarus which should tell you something about their ability to handle snow and ice.

    Each of these vehicles has its strong points but the 3 are significantly different from each other. I highly recommend you take each for a test drive and go with the one that you like the best. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

    -Frank P.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    Sorry, but you claim the #1 reason Fords sell more is because they have more dealerships..

    Sure, some folks will prefer to purchase a vehicle if they have a dealership close by, however I don't believe this is the main factor of why the Escape outsells the competition..
    There are many other reasons that better explain why the Escape outsold everyone else for a while..
    a. v6, and all that implies.
    b. looks more like a truck
    c. the Ford name
    d. value
    e. newer models of vehicles tend to sell better. When the re-designed CRV hits the streets, it's sales will see a boost..
    f. production capacity (although like the number of dealerships, if there is enough demand then manufactures can afford to increase capacity).

    Ford can support a large number of dealerships because there is enough demand for their products to support that many dealerships..

    The number of dealerships probaby is a factor, but far from the leading reason the Escape out sells the others..
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bess- I agree that your reasons a, b, d and e have all contributed to the Escape's excellent sales thus far. The Ford name (c) and production capacity (f) I would group with the number of dealerships as all indicative of market share. Ford has certainly lost a significant amount in recent years but they and GM are still kings of the mountain in that regard.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru can only dream of selling as many Forester as Ford recalls Escapes. Escape just earned a solid Black Dot (worst possible) rating in reliability from Consumer Reports, too.

    Subaru is a niche manufacturer and doesn't even try to build in the volumes that Ford does, but maybe that's a good thing they aren't rushing production (obviously Ford did). The Gunma plant is running at full capacity (meeting a reasonable quality standard) and they sell every one they make.

    Only better in one way? Nonsense. Reliability, AWD that is truly full-time, longer warranty, fuel efficiency, ride quality, roof rack capacity, payload capacities, much better standard equipment, lower liftover, etc.

    The Escape has a lot going for it, including a roomy back seat and the V6, but let's not get crazy, it has lots, I mean lots, of room for improvement.

    -juice
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    I don't subscribe to CR so I haven't seen its latest ratings or reasonings.. But I do suspect their ability to accurately rate vehicles, as I have seen them rate twin cars (like sable/taurus) completely different. Did they rate the Tribute the same as the Escape?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In this case, yes, Tribute also got the worst possible rating.

    Some twins are built at different plants, and remember it's up to the dealership to do the pre-delivery inspection and to service the car, which plays a big role in long-term reliability.

    -juice
  • sdcxcsdcxc Member Posts: 6
    Test drove a Tribute yesterday. LX-V6 (23500K+/-). It seemed OK, but didn't reach out and grab me.

    Test drove a Liberty today. Sport model with 27B (I think B?) package. +/- 23500K also. Frankly, I though it was awesome. I've owned two Cherokees, and 95 and a 98. I really liked them, they go well in the snow. But this is a major improvement.

    I'll test drive a Forester in the next few days.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    back pedal a bit here. I never said the Forester was an incapable, nor fine vehicle. I simply stated "in my opinion" the Escape/Tribute were better. What I mean by better is better for my needs. I needed towing capacity and more room. I go fishing in the mountains and my Escape has handled the access roads just fine. I am well aware not to take a vehicle with a car frame off on a class 4 trail. Granted, the Escape/Tribute had some initial quality problems. These will haunt this model for some years until people start seeing they are just as reliable as the competition. I personally feel the ride, handling, performance of the Escape was superior to the Forester. I felt the advertisement stating the Forester as being better in crashtests was misleading because it bests the Escape in ONE area, otherwise the Escape has better crashtest ratings (PER EDMUNDS).
    All this "offroad" ability hype makes me chuckle. Over 90 percent of 4x4 vehicles never even see a gravel road! The only SUV in this category I would take to a severe offroad trail would be the Xterra and Liberty. I admit, I use mine as a commuter, snow day, ice day, fishing hole, tow my jet ski's vehicle....
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    meant to say... I never said the Forester was not a fine vehicle..
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I also like the Liberty, Steve. I'll be interested to hear what you end up buying.

    scape: it's cool, we're still friends. ;-) The Escape's power puts pressure on Subaru for their next generation, so it's a good thing to have competition out there.

    I urge anyone shopping around to check out crashtest.com for a summary of all auto industry crash tests. The Forester has the right to brag, IMO, becuase it did "Good" or "Excellent" in every single category, so it's consistently safe. IIHS is the toughest, so no surprise Subaru and Hyundai tout the results.

    I actually really like Mazdas, and currently own two of them. But I prefer the Protege5 and MPV over the Tribute, personally.

    FYI Santa Fe also got "worse than average" in reliability. That's disappointing, I really thought they'd do better than that.

    -juice
  • tiredofmanualtiredofmanual Member Posts: 338
    I understand your desire to carry bikes upright inside your vehicle. Laying down two or more will end up scratching them or bending a spoke, and even if you are carrying just one, somehow you end up having to adjust a brake cable or derailleur. In your case, I would go with either the Escape 4x4 or a Liberty with the Selectrac 4x4. You should have no problems carrying your bikes upright in either, though the rear seat in the Liberty does not fold completely flat. I would recommend taking a bike and a friend with you to both dealerships and simulate your inside bike rack. The salesman should have no problem with this.

    You wont get the gas mileage or the reliability of the Subaru, but not having to worry about having your bikes stolen or damaged is probably worth it (if you love your bikes like the rest of us cycling nuts). I have a Ford Focus and would like to trade it in for one of these two, but am unsure which one to get. Ford service sucks, but I have no idea about Jeep service. The Liberty is also in it's first year, and I hope it's not anything like my first-year Focus (8 recalls and a TON of TSBs - look at www.nhtsa.gov).

    Good Luck!
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    scape2- Thanks for the clarification ;-)
    The Escape does have a lot going for it and if you need the towing capacity and/or frequently transport adults in the rear seat then the Escape is the better choice (I know the Liberty also has a hefty towing rating but not sure about rear seat comfort).

    By the way, I think it's a shame that Ford doesn't offer a manual tranny option with the 6-cyl Escape. And what's up with that column shifter?

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Forester's cargo area is pretty tall, especially without the moonroof. Your bikes may fit.

    I have a hitch and hitch mounted bike rack on my Forester. It comes with a lock, and it keeps the bikes from touching the car. It also tilts out of the way so you can open the hatch even with bikes on there.

    If you are interested, I have some photos here. Click the right arrow to see a pic of the tilting feature.

    -juice
  • tiredofmanualtiredofmanual Member Posts: 338
    If bikes do fit inside the Forrester, it would be a tight fit. Maybe sdcxc should take his tallest bike to the Subie dealer too. I think that the ideal solution here would be a minivan, but I can understand not wanting to own one. Especially if you're a 23-year old single guy (that would be me).

    The thing I don't like about bike racks is that they leave the bike exposed to the elements and uncaring people. Maybe it is unreasonable, but I just can't do that without feeling uncomfortable about it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you lower the seat and remove the front wheel, my guess is it would fit. You should definitely try it, though.

    I don't mind carrying bikes on the exterior, because mine end up getting dirty anyway, and they're not $1000 bikes.

    -juice
  • sdcxcsdcxc Member Posts: 6
    Too busy with everyday business to test drive a Forester yet. Probably won't happen until next week.

    I seriously doubt a bike will fit upright (sans front wheel)in a Forester. But it's not as big a deal with that vehichle. The big bike rack manufacturers have trays that fit directly to Subura cross bars and the car is low enough that reach is not a problem. With the Jeep/Tribute/etc. it's not as easy to use a roof rack on a daily basis......hence the desire of interior fit.

    As a side note, I have nightmares about crushing $2000+ bikes by pulling into the garage while bikes are mounted to roof rack! :o( I know a couple of folks who have done it!
  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    Automatic Escapes built on or after Nov 5 2001 will have a shorter & less obtrusive column shifter.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Well that's at least some improvement then.
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    Sdcxc-
    IIRC, I saw a Hyundai accessory when I bought my Santa Fe that allows you to carry two bikes upright in the cargo hold. Not sure how much disassembly would be needed, but it might be worth checking out.
    I know you didn't mention the Santa Fe specfically, but hey, it's in the forum title. It's definitely worth a test drive.

    -Jason
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Santa Fe that allows you to carry two bikes upright in the cargo hold.

    Perhaps if you deflate the tires ...! ;-)

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.