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Thank you for sharing! So therefore; each individual car split could be very different in many factors then; I guess even with the gasoline situation too perhaps. Well I guess wider tire only do good on curb turn and balancing but not split then. Thank you for the information about the weather too. We kind of figure out that the car with the wider tires was slower as you have mentioned. So therefore, the lower psi will do faster split or slower? Or isn't depend on the car weight? Maybe there should be a good psi will do perfect for the car then? Still learning for more solution...Now! I understand why each different sites have different time split base on 0-60 and also quarter mile. My Santa Fe have more accessories (mean more weight) but seem like the Santa Fe does not care much or less at all...it still go at the speed I want it very often...I used 87 Octane...Do you think 91-92 Octane do any better performance on SUV especially on the Santa Fe?...I am sure that my Santa Fe will go slow on winter time because you most like go face against the wind..
i commute to and from work about 60 miles a day, travelling at normal california speeds (which is as fast as you think you can go without getting caught by cops)--so i go between 70-90 depending on traffic..(california drivers are another subject)...my santa fe drives beautifully at these speeds, no rattles or shakes or wind noise to report at all...i'm also getting a little over 20 mi per gallon which is better than i though i would get in such a large and heavy vehicle...so i would agree with other posts here, the santa fe has no problems at high speeds, in fact, i would say it drives better than some cars i've owned (and a heck of alot more comfortable with all the room)...(by the way, i've owned some crappy cars: ford aspire, dodge neon, dodge stratus, ford probe...and the santa fe drives better than all these cars...sorry i can't compare the ride to a lexus or camaro, i've never owned them so i defintely can't compare them, especially when i'm trying to convey my honest opinions about the sante fe)....
as for me, i bought the santa fe as a replacement for my stratus...i bought it in mind as a "family car" that has ample room for two growing kids and 1 growing adult (myself), and my wife...i did not buy it in mind to drag race sports cars on the road, or to even use it as a true suv (so i didn't buy the 4 wd)...i bought it as a safe, economical, and dependable car that i can load big stuff in when i need to, and still be able to tell folks that i own a "suv" (or is it "xuv) not a mini van...this is why i was more interested in the rav 4, and crv than a rodeo or xterra when i was looking around, the comfort and the smooth ride mean more to me than the performance time off the line or it's off road capabilities...
the santa fe is a nice ride, and i am very proud to own one...it has pizazz with it's bold type body style and unique looking interior (thank god it doesn't look like an aztek)...i've had nothing but compliements from folks who would come up to me just to find out what it is i'm driving... it suits my needs, and it did not break my bank account...it has a nice smooth ride, and a warranty i wish that dodge had (or else i would still own a paid off dodge stratus now, not a santa fe--but that's another story)...all in all, i wouldn't ask for anything more from my santa fe, and i'm very happy with it....
j/k hung it's a good pic
Odie
Higher octane does not give you better performance. The octane number indicates the fuels resistance to combustion. The higher the number, the harder it is to ignite. As a result, if you run 92 octane fuel in a vehicle the doesn't require it, you may have a less complete combustion cycle, giving you worse emissions, worse mileage, and even less power. At the same time, if you run a lower octane fuel in an engine requiring 92, you may damage the engine due to preignition of the fuel. Some vehicles are designed for higher octane fuels (such as turbo/supercharged engines, or high compression engines) but the bulk of vehicles on the road are designed to run on 87 octane pump gas. You should use what is recommended for your vehicle.
Extra weight will effect every performance aspect of a vehicle (acceleration, cornering, brakeing)but you may not notice it much. If you added 150lbs of accessories, it would be like driving around a person with you at all times. Most people don't notice much of a performance hit with a passenger, which is why you don't either. But if you were to measure the acceleration, cornering, and braking of your SF and another SF without the same accessories (assume everything else is the same, including driver) then you would be able to measure a difference. It probably would be too much, but you could measure it.
Air pressure plays a role in the amount of traction your tire can provide. But it is just one factor to consider. Size, compound, sidewall flex, tread (or lack of) come into play too. Changing your air pressure can effect the flex of the tire and the size of the contact patch. Lowering the pressure will increase the contact patch, but only to a certain point. The typical street tire isn't designed to do this safely.
Anyway, thank you beatfarmer for the supportive information. The information is very helpful for me. Thanks
Mudpuddle, I agree about the TB. Seems most I've seen are over 30K. That's a whole other ballpark there.
The good thing about competition like this is it improves the breed. As soon as a bar is set, be it performance, value, reliability, or style, it forces other manufactures to try and match or beat the competiton.
I was just about settled on the CRV, but my dealer did not have the colors I wanted. I felt that its power was good for a 4-cyl (after all, I would be doing most of my driving on highways). I also liked its comfort, roominess, and Honda quality. I went down the road about 60 miles to another Honda dealer who had a better color selection. This new dealer also sold Hyundai.
They had just received 5 Santa Fes the prior day which were program vehicles (repos, had minor damage at the docks in Baltimore, etc). The particular SF I was looking at had been damaged at the dock, and had the rear hatch replaced. The dealership accepted my offer (I offered the faxed price I had received on a CRV from an Autobytel dealer). The deal also included the extended warrenty.
End result, I got a SF GLS with 400 miles for far under MSRP.
The Sport interior felt cheap to me, especially the seats. The Limited had much better seats, but still had vinyl backs with exposed stitching. The brushed metal bits were nice, and for once looked real, not fake.
You sit bolt upright, which I'm not used to, and the dead pedal position was uncomfortable, so I could not find a place to rest my left foot. It felt roomy, comfy, and quiet. The ride was pretty good, too, and the V6 was smooth, although not as powerful as I thought it would be. It may feel better with a 5 speed.
Handling was, well, it's a truck. A tall one. You can't ask too much from it, because it feels tippy and uncomfortable being pushed. This is why it's not for me - I drive aggressively and attack apexes. The Forester does this better.
Love the styling. Interior was roomy, especially tall. The hatch/gate is ingenious, and ought to be copied by everyone. Ground clearance looked good and skid plates were beefy, plus suspension parts looked very sturdy.
It's so tall that the roof rack is hard to reach, though. The cargo area is tall but not deep. The seats do not fold flat, either.
The big catch, to me, was price. $24.5k and it didn't have a moonroof, side bags, ABS, trailer hitch, or the LSD. Equip it like that and it's $27k, which is mid-size SUV territory. And that's still not totally loaded.
Also, they had only automatics, no 5 speeds at all. The sales guy said they were not even made yet, nor was ABS (a big mistake, IMO).
So overall it felt very nice, substantial. The best Jeep out there, IMO. I'm not the target customer, but I can understand the appeal.
-juice
And... we are finally in complete agreement as to styling! I too love it. In fact, there's hardly anything I would want to change, except for perhaps a rear bumper that extended out beyond the the spare tire, for better rear-end protection.
My biggest beef, which you mentioned, is that many of the items I would want, are optional. I too think ABS should be standard, as well as Selec-Trac, which offers full-time 4WD.
Even so, a loaded Liberty (that would satisfy me) would sticker around $27K. A comparably equipped Explorer or TrailBlazer would sticker around $33K. Admittedly, I'm comparing it more to a traditional mid-size SUV than to a cute-ute, but I would be buying it because I need do those kinds of tasks such as towing and off-road use.
My understanding is that there is a "hold" on the ABS for some reason, and that 5-speeds and 4 cylinder models won't be released until sometime in September.
Did you take it out from the dealer in Rockville?
Bob
The US may just get this SUV:
http://www.auto-asia.com/viewcontent.asp?pk=2852
http://www.teamsr.org/terracan.html
Homer: the fuel efficient trio of sport/cutes includes the RAV4, CR-V, and Forester. Anything else here won't get 20mpg in the city.
I fully agree that a wagon may better serve her needs, so check out a Focus, Jetta, Outback Sport, PT Cruiser, and if she can wait, a Matrix.
Bob: yeah, I went to the one on Rockville Pike. Drove there in my Miata, just for kicks. My shins were about at eye level to the Miata, and it really felt that tall to me, too.
Mind you, I didn't factor in mileage, which to me is important. Back in college, I vowed never to buy a vehicle that didn't make 20mpg in the city or better, and so far I've kept that admittedly idealistic promise to myself.
But if you are comparing a Liberty to an XTerra, the choice is so easy it's not even funny. Nissan is in deep trouble. The XTerra V6 is wheezy, and the supercharger guzzles premium.
More nit picks: The Liberty didn't have cross bars, nor did it have rub strips/rails on the roof. You'll spend extra money on accessories. Also, the roof rack has little holes on each end, but they wre not big enough for hands - stupid IMO.
I agree that the bumper should stick out further. I did like the cover that lets you stand on it without scratching it, my Forester also has this.
Overall I was very impressed. If I was shopping for a truck, it would definitely be on my short list.
-juice
You can get XTerra for much less money, or you can get a loaded Pathfinder for around 27K.
Stephen
Nissan may win in reliability (historically), but the Jeep feels like a higher quality product by far.
I agree about the handling, but if you only compared it to other trucks, it's about par.
-juice
We live on the flatlands of Missouri and Kansas and never take our Forester off road (we bought it for my wife's peace of mind(AWD and ABS)). We recently took a trip to the mountains west of Denver, CO and I made the following observations:
Saw lots of Subarus, Outbacks, Foresters, etc. (now I know why they call the Subaru the state car of Colorado)
Saw lots of Ford EXCUSES (Excape,Explorer,Expedition,and a few Excursions)
Saw lots of Jeeps, mostly Cherokees etc.
In a week, we saw only 2 Santa Fes. Saw lots of ads on TV for them. I really liked the one where they had to roll out the red carpet to make a smooth surface for the Santa Fe to be able to go off road.
After spending several weeks reading over all the posts on this forum, I just had to chime in. We LIKE the looks of the Forester and the value we received($250 under invoice). $19,6 for a new L 5 speed with brush guard, keyless entry, trailer package, cargo cover, and Subaru reliability. That feeling hasn't changed in over 18 months and 20K miles.
TIC I finally figured out what Bill and Hung's constant references to the SF quality and just overall goodness really meant. SF stands for Subaru Forester of course.
Now, I will run and grab a pillow and helmet to protect my monitor and head. LOL
Juice, we were a little disappointed with the gas mileage we were getting (low 20s in mixed city highway use). After the O2 sensor recall, the mileage jumped up 4 to 5 mpg. Now mid to upper 20s in day to day use. Couldn't be happier with performance or economy. During the afore mentioned trip, the car started vibrating (steering wheel shimmy) and then it would go away. Last week, it suddenly got much worse. In fact, I thought it had thrown a wheel weight but then just as suddenly it went away again. Now I suspect one of the tires since it still has the original Bridgestone tires. Do you have any thoughts or comments. I know you went to after market wheels and tires on your Forester and have indicated that you are very happy with the result.
Lee
Since the imbalance goes away, it could be something getting caught in your wheels or tires (gravel, snow, or ice). They act like a wheel weight and throw off the balance. When they fall or melt off, the problem vanishes.
I had that happen with my old steel wheels (ice). When I mounted my alloys, I waxed the new rims inside and out. It's great - they stay clean and the surface is slippery so no ice accumulates. They are also easier to clean.
I've also co-piloted for a friend on gravel, and we got little pebbles in the tire grooves. It created an imbalance and a funny noise when we'd get back on pavement.
Try waxing the wheels first. If you do ever drive off pavement, check the tires for anything stuck in the grooves.
-juice
For me, what's frustrating, if I were in the market for a Liberty, I know that I won't find one on a dealer lot the way I would want it—which means special ordering one—which means waiting 6-8 weeks. I HATE that. When I'm ready to buy, I want the new vehicle NOW, not 2 months down the road.
Bob
This is the way it used to be and should be for all cars. I don't want electric windows or locks, or remote control, or AC, or sunroof, or ABS. I DO want, however, upgraded tires, downgraded stereo (or none) to be replaced aftermarket, more powerful motor, nice seats, etc.
Why should I have to settle for someone else's option list?
Thank you Jeep, for keeping it simple.
Bob
Good point about the complete vehicle, though. Even the most stripped Forester has AWD, ABS, power everything, A/C, roof rack w/cross bars and rails, fog lights, and a full size spare.
I would have to special order a Liberty. Black, Limited, cloth seats, V6, 5 speed, 4WD, off road package, ABS, side air bags, upgraded stereo (loved the steering wheel controls BTW), moonroof, and towing package. Problem is, that's a $28k truck, so you're into mid-size territory.
I'm curious as to why there is no Selec-Trac with the 5 speed manual, though.
Sasquatch: you actually cannot have it your way. The nice seats come only on the Limited. You could get a Sport V6 with the off road package, but still no 5 speeds are available (yet).
-juice
I like the way you speced it out. However, with a 5-speed, towing is limited to 3500 pounds, not 5000, as with the automatic. Still, it's better than the Forester. Also, if it's anything like the Cherokee, 5-speeds are going to be hard to find. I'm sure you would have to order it because of the way you've listed the options. It's very unlikely you will find one on the lot like that.
It really is a mid-size SUV. It weighs in a bit over 4000 pounds. So $28K for a "loaded" one is not out of reason. If you're comparing it to the cute-utes, yes it does sound high.
Bob
Matt
Kate5000: In all of my SUV shopping, have I yet to see a Pathfinder for anything less than 33k. Where in the US can you get one for 27k? Most of the Xterras out on the lot were all over 25k.
Sasquatch 2000: Agree with the options on the Liberty. I got what I wanted, and nothing more. If I didn't want fog lamps, I wouldn't have gotten them, not get stuck paying for something I didn't want.
-mad
Bob
http://www.jeepunpaved.com/PriceEquip/zipcode?appStr=priceEquip&marketing_family=liberty&family=liberty
In the high $20s you're in Pathfinder range. A PF LE without Leather can be had for $28,891 (carsdirect.com). Add leather package and you're at $30K even, with all the stuff you normally get on QX4, in cluding the great 240hp V6. Ride and handling are tight and precise.
Heck, you can get PF SE with 5-speed manual, same powerful engine, for $26,664.
And these are Carsdirect prices, meaning that if you go to the dealer yourself you could haggle even cheaper.
Or, a really nice new Trooper.
Or, a new Wrangler and a used truck and a new motorcycle.
You get the idea.
Some points are pointless.
Tony, I don't think of the Liberty as a cute-ute. It's much more capable than any of those vehicles. I compare it much more with the Xterra or Rodeo, than to a Forester, Rav4, or CRV, and borderline comparable to an an Escape/Tribute.
Bob
???
Edmunds' options list seems short compared to what he had on his form, but let's see, I'd want:
4WD Limited 23305
selec trac 395
heated seats 250
off road 520
ABS 600
side bags 390
stereo upgrade 100
moon roof 700
tow pkg 245
console 300
window tint 270
speakers 475
for a total of 27550.
I'm not sure which stereo package includes the steering wheel controls, but that's one feature I really liked. Also, while that sounds loaded, it does not have leather, rear disc brakes, or a CD changer.
Come to think of it, it looks like you can't get a 5 speed Limited. Oh well. So I'd have to compromise on the tranny, or settle for the Sport's seats and interior, which I didn't really like as much.
-juice
What, no lifetime supply of Rice A Roni?
-juice
Here is the July Sales Figure for the Santa Fe:
Santa Fe = 5146 **Hyundai mark 6 Consecutive month of record sales**
Where is a good place to get the sale record for all of these car?
If you ever want to visit San Francisco then don't miss out a fun view: Go to Twin Peak and see the view of San Francisco: This board get to bore; I add to make it more better.
Still, 5146 sales is great. That's enough to pass the RAV4 and Forester, but not the CR-V or Escape. Probably not the Liberty either.
-juice