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Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Anybody else seen those clever new Hyundai Santa Fe ads that poke fun of big or luxury SUVs? I've seen two. The first has a family driving down a the street in their "practical" Santa Fe and everyone else is riding around on big yellow pieces of construction equipment (I especially liked the line of steam rollers picking up kids in front of a school). The 2nd ad has a Santa Fe with a family of four heading down a neighborhood street and there's a kid in the back seat staring out at business professionals getting into their luxo SUVs (Disco, X3, etc) to go to work. In every case there's only the driver. I found both ads to be very effective at pointing out that many people buy far more vehicle than they really need.

    -Frank
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    of SUV is growing very fast. Think about it. In just the last 5 years we have had some major players enter this market segment. Ford Escape, Mazda Tribute, Saturn VUE, Jeep Liberty, Hyundia Santa Fe, Chevy Equinox.. Ford to intorduce another the Mercury Mariner. These are very nice sized vehicles. As for right size? who knows. You can't really tow too much with these little utes. This is where the larger ones come into play.
    With the recall stigma over, the Escape is doing very well. The new 05 is a nice improvement on interior quality along with interior noise. Ford is developing a 3.5 V6 for the next generation mini-ute. This is turning into a stupid HP war. In my opinion a small V6 along with about 200HP and about 200ft/lbs of torque is enough for these litte utes. Start reaching into the 250 range and its just plain over kill. I would rather have nicer interior, more options, handling ect...
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Might as well add it to the topic title. There was a review of the Equinox in this weekend's paper and so long as you don't mind it being a GM product, it offers some good capabilities. The most interesting of which is a sliding rear seat that provides over 40 inches of legroom. Of course all that legroom has to come from somewhere and it's achieved by stretching the Vue's platform by 6" to a 112" wheelbase. The Equinox also is rated to tow 3500 lbs which is good for this category. Power from the V-6 is adequate but certainly not stellar with 210 lb of torque somewhat compensating for the relatively anemic 185 hp. The Equinox also got top marks in frontal and side impact testing. Over all I'd say they Equinox is probably worth taking a look at. Especially if rear seat room is a major consideration.

    -Frank
  • speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    I like those Hyundai ads too, Frank. I think you may have missed the punchline on the second one, though. After seeing all the businessmen hop into their luxury rides, she asks her father, "Dad, isn't today....Saturday?" the point being that if you drive a Santa Fe you won't have to work weekends to make payments for it. Clever ad, and I like the emphasis on the importance of family time!
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Oops, my bad. I've only seen that particular ad once and it was a couple of weeks ago so you're right, I forgot the punchline ;-)

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frank: funny indeed, but I found it even funnier than Hyundai will make the next Santa Fe bigger than the current one. The Tucson will occupy the compact segment and the SF is moving up in size.

    The ad might look a bit hypocritical in a couple of years.

    Vue is kinda big for a compact SUV, I think the Equinox is easily into the mid-size territory. Price will overlap with the compacts, though.

    Equinox really should have gotten the newer 3500 engine from the Malibu, 15 more hp and better fuel efficiency than the ancient 3.4l.

    -juice
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I understand GM has some sort of agreement with China to provide the 3.4L engines for the Equinox. I guess it is a fairly long term agreement so it is unlikely that the Equinox will see another powerplant for the next couple of years.

    That having been said ... the engine I would really like to see in the Equinox is the 3.5L Honda V6 that is available in the Vue :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Speak of the devil, I just drove one last night. My wife had a Test Drive Offer for a $35 gift card to Staples, so we sampled a Redline model.

    $28.8k seemed a little steep, but there is a $3k rebate in this region, so $25.8k didn't seem too bad. This had leather and a moonroof, so it was pretty loaded.

    I had also driven the old V6 model, and of course the most noticeable difference is the engine. It's torquier and smoother, by far. Leaves the old V6 in the dust, basically. It is not lightning quick like the Forester XT, not even close, but there is power to spare.

    Other likes? It's spacious, for people and cargo. Flat floor in the back is good for the 3rd passenger. The leather is more comfortable than the cloth seats I sampled last time, and this sample even had satellite radio.

    My complaints are the same as I had with the old V6 model - cheap plastics, spongy and too-soft seats, low cushions with no side support. Open the doors and you're greeted by several exposed screw heads. Gaps and seams are a lot wider than I'm used to. I realize they leave room for expansion and contraction, but it just looks cheap.

    Lots of unfinished edges on the trim, too. The lids feel hollow, not solid. You see the mold parts, too.

    The front seats has arm rests that help hold you in, but I'd like bigger bolsters, after all Redline implies performance driving. The rear seats are awful, way too low, too short for thigh support, and bolt-upright seat backs. It's too narrow for 3 across, also.

    How did it drive? Steering effort is way too light, numb even. Again, Redline models should have tighter steering. The turning ratio is good, though.

    In corners the body leans a lot, it's supposed to have stiffer springs but overall it still feels biased towards ride. Tire noise was a bit excessive, though the rims are very handsome.

    Ours had a rattle in the cargo area that just would not stop. I did a U-turn at one point and we heard a clunk from the suspension, I wondered out loud if the recent recall had been done on this model.

    4 sturdy cup holders were a plus. Child locks for the doors and locking seat belts, too.

    My overall impression was there was a good powertrain searching for a better chassis. Redline is about performance, this niche expects razor sharp steering and tighter handling than what the Vue offers.

    As is, the Vue Redline feels like the old Vue with a nice Honda engine.

    Compared to a Forester XT, it has a touch more room, but it's not even as comfortable, so I can't think of anything the XT doesn't do better.

    -juice
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Sure looks like there is going to be a HP/Torque war in this segment also. Why? These are little utes and nothing else. I feel a V6, with about 200-225 HP and about 200-235ft/lbs of torque would suffice. My personal feelings are manufacturers should put more into the interior and exterior, safety and handling. Ford is also getting ready a 3.5 rumored to put out about 235HP for the Escape/Tribute/Monterey line-up for 06-07 model year.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You know what, after driving the Vue, I'd have to agree, at least for that model.

    I do think the old V6 was too coarse, but the 200hp engine from the Malibu would have been adequate.

    Spend the money on the plastics and especially the seats. I cannot think of any vehicle with seats worse than what the Vue has. They're just awful.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
  • gmginsfogmginsfo Member Posts: 116
    I'm certainly not going to buy one first year out, but in light of the Escape's mediocre NHTSA ratings, I'm wondering if the lower center of gravity presumably provided by the heavy batteries in the Hybrid will make it handle any better? Will crash-avoidance manuverability be affected? Any thoughts?*
    _____
    *I'd originally posted this on the Escape board, but had no takers. We Subaru owners are supposed to be a more talkative, intelligent lot, so how about it?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It may lower the center of gravity but it also increases mass. The suspension and tires will have more inertia to overcome.

    I doubt handling will be better, they'll probably add low-rolling-resistance tires and sacrifice some handling.

    The Prius is not known for its handling, not at all. A Corolla outperforms it easily.

    -juice
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,743
    i sense a little 'troll'ing in post 4149
    -juice - thanks for your observations
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • rhouser2rhouser2 Member Posts: 114
    i read in a trade magazine that the pontiac version of the nox will also have the 3.4 engine in it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A shame, really, the 'nox is nicer inside and out than the Vue. Still not great, mind you, but a step up IMO.

    -juice
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    Of course it'll have the 3.4 engine.
    It's a Pontiac, isn't it?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Good question! Does it come with 4 wheel discs as standard? If so this will help in the braking portion. I personally feel it won't handle any better. The weight distribution looks like it will be awkward. I would think the suspension would need to beefed up a bit to handle more of the weight up front??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So far most hybrids have arrived very well equipped.

    It's likely the Escape hybrid would be comparable to a loaded up Escape V6 in terms of features and content. It could even get some exclusive features.

    Price will be $28k or so IIRC.

    -juice
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    It's funny how little things can make a vehicle comfortable or not. (yes, juice, I'm still driving the Taco I hate so much and I'm STILL looking to replace it).

    Saturday I drove a Liberty and got to play with it a bit (definitely a fun vehicle to drive). Enough so that we went Sunday to a dealer to buy one. However, on Saturday I only drove it. Sunday I sat in the passenger seat and discovered that since I'm so short, I either have to sit slightly sideways or else have my left foot higher than my right and not flat. This was not an issue with my hubby and his longer legs.

    Now I'm thinking of not buying in this class at all. I made the mistake of driving the new (and redesigned) 2005 Grand Cherokee (loved it!). If I don't eat for the next year...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I thought by now you'd be shopping to replace the vehicle that replaced the Taco. :o)

    Are the new Grands here already?

    Last one I drove had permanent 4WD but also a permanent whine from the rear differential that I found intolerable.

    Keep something in mind - the KBB price on a '98 Forester L with 60k miles, good condition, is $8,600. On a Grand Cherokee it's $8,000. And the Forester cost about $6 grand less to begin with...

    -juice
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    The new 2005 JGC are not out yet - at least none are at the dealers and the dealer I talked to Sunday did not know the pricing (I had an idea - it was released Wednesday and I talked to someone who had the prices for the packages, though not all the options, etc.). And that's the only one I'm interested (I wouldn't mind a V8 engine that gets 20 mpg on the highway).

    They were featured at Camp Jeep this past week and they had a number of them available to drive, both on the Jeep 101 (off-road) course and on an on-road obstacle course. Lots of fun and a far better test of the vehicle than driving around the block at the dealers. That's why I was ready to buy the Liberty - I had a great time playing with it (and trying to aim it between the flags - the hill was steep enough I couldn't see the road).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I hear those events are fun.

    Edmunds Live, back in 2000, had a similar event, the flag talk reminded me of that. The Forester actually made it through no problem.

    -juice
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Juice - If I were interested in the resale value of my vehicles I probably would buy a Subaru. However, my 2000 Tacoma has a KBB of $6,700 and I would be surprised if I get that much for it. Next month it will be officially 4 calendar years old (bought as year end closeout, something I won't mention) and it has over 175,000 miles on it. With that type of usage, it won't matter much what I buy - it won't have much worth in a few years.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno. IMO $6700 is still a lot.

    If you had a domestic compact pickup with that many miles, it might be worth half as much. To me that's still a significant difference.

    -juice
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I just ran a comparison using a Ford Ranger and similar equipment/mileage. It did come up about $1,000 less.

    On the other hand, the main reason I want to get rid of the Taco is not its age or mileage, but because I don't like it. If I were to like the next vehicle (be it a Subaru or a JGC) as much as I love my '98 Wrangler, I won't sell it until it falls apart. Hmmm - maybe I should take into consideration how often in the past the Grands DID fall apart and go back to looking at the Subarus or an Unlimited.

    I know - my vehicle list doesn't make much sense as far as categories go.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, it also must meet your needs, that part is key. Otherwise it'll be buyer's remorse.

    -juice
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    The hardest part of buying a new car is to define your needs and then to prioritize them. A couple of mine are mutually exclusive (excellent gas mileage and extra power for climbing steep grades) so I go back and forth almost daily trying to decide which is more important. It also depends on how small the bank account is. Some days the frugal Forester (not XT) sounds like the right answer and other days I think "no way" as I'm struggling uphill in 4th gear. I'm still interested in the hybrid Escape but I want to see how they do longer term - I put too many miles on a vehicle to take a chance on untried, new technology (at least as far as Ford is concerned). Maybe that will be my replacement for the replacement vehicle!

    Of course, buying a vehicle that meets all your needs but doesn't grab you in some way is just as bad as buying something impractical.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Didn't I read that Ford leased the Escape's hybrid technology from Toyota? That should help in the the reliability dept.

    -Frank
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Didn't I read that Ford leased the Escape's hybrid technology from Toyota? That should help in the the reliability dept.

    No, but you did read something like that. Ford developed all of their hybrid technology, be it hardware or software, on their own. Some of it was too similar to Toyota's to get away with so they ended up licensing some of Toyota's tech to avoid litigation down the road. That's not to say Ford didn't have a Prius, Civic hybrid, and Insight all torn apart and cross-sectioned in a shop somewhere. :)

    At the same time Toyota returned the favor and licensed some of Ford's new patented hybrid tech for future use as well.

    Ford thinks hybrids are important to the future of the automotive world and wanted to do it right the first time. Buying/leasing tech from a competitor would not be how you go about doing that.

    mtngal,
    Have you thought about the Freestyle? They should be hitting lots very soon as they've been in production for about a month now. I don't know what your price range is but it might be worth a look. I saw one at the car show in February and pictures don't do it justice. It's actually pretty nice.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I'll admit my ignorance - I haven't been watching what's been coming out recently. What's the Freestyle? I'm not familiar with it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford actually only licensed some technology from Toyota, basically Toyota had patents that Ford needed to use. (edit: Baggs32 beat me to it)

    Even then they're from the 1st Gen Prius, not the new one. I'm not sure if they use the same suppliers, though.

    Freestyle is the new 7 seater based on the Ford 500, the car that replaces the Taurus. So basically it's a replacement for the Taurus wagon, but it's lifted and offers AWD. A 200hp Duratec V6 and a CVT tranny should be adequate, if not inspiring.

    I'm not sure you need that kind of space, nor would it be as good off road as an Escape or Explorer, so prolly not for mtngal.

    What happened to your craving for the Element? Just curious. Clearance too low?

    -juice
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ford Freestyle

    Initial reports sound pretty good.

    Steve, Host
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    The Freestyle sounds interesting, but I don't need the extra seating (no kids). The V6 with the CVT tranny would be a big advantage - I'm still hesitant about getting an auto, and it seemed like the CVT would be an excellent compromise.

    As far as the off-roading, this car will be primarily our commuter car, so it won't see all that much true off-roading (keeping the '98 Wrangler for that). I do want extra ground clearance and AWD/4x4 for getting out of my driveway in winter and getting around the chain restrictions when the roads are bad. On the other hand, anything I drive is subject to unplanned trips to remote locations so it should have some off-road capabilities.

    I still love the interior of the Element, but we haven't replaced our four-legged friend yet, and the way things are going, I'm not sure when we'll get another one. So no more concern with wet, muddy paws and fur. And while I wasn't real impressed with the ground clearance, I thought it was adequate. The main concern I have now with it is the 4 cylinder engine, especially with an auto. My back is such that an auto is looking better and better to me (and also why I keep hesitating about the Subie line, though that's easily "fixable" by getting one of the turbos). Also, while I love the way the back seats can lay flat for sleeping, I've found a lovely air mattress that we are comfortable on, and the Wrangler can carry all of our camping gear (as we proved last week - we tented at a lovely RV park during Camp Jeep), so I'm not so interested in converting an element to a camper.

    I guess I'd better start looking at all the new AWD vehicles that are coming out. We've decided that the Taco definitely goes up for sale after Labor Day.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It sure it hard to get the efficiency you want along with low gearing for creeping up those inclines. I'm not sure what to recommend.

    Good luck and keep us posted!

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The Freestyle sounds interesting, but I don't need the extra seating (no kids).

    OK. I was thinking of the cargo space since you are replacing a pickup. The middle and third row fold flat to give you lots of room for cargo or sleeping.

    We chose the Escape V6 again because of it's blend of cargo/passenger space, safety options, looks, and hill climbing power. However, our hills over here are short, steep and winding where yours are more of the long, gradual, and winding right? The Escape's gearing isn't quite as smooth on roads like that. Some of our highway roads are that way and the shifting can get annoying at times.

    Might be worth another look though. The gearing has changed for the better in the '05s. I noticed it right away. The new 4WD system is pretty slick too. But we haven't had it in any snow yet.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    The cargo space would be nice, but isn't strictly needed as much now (no wet paws). From what I read, it sounds like it would be possible to get a Freestyle without the 3d row seating, which would be better for us. Though I'd prefer the Escape's styling, so I'm going to be keeping an eye on the Escape hybrid as time passes.

    The hill I climb (daily commute) is a freeway (4 lanes each way, freeway speeds called the Grapevine) and it climbs from something like 1,000 feet to 3,000 feet in about 6 miles. The 4 banger Taco goes up it at 70 mph, usually in 4th gear (I sigh each time that blue WRX flys by me probably doing 80). Many minivans can't go above 50 on that stretch. 18 wheelers sometimes go up it at 20 mph, so it can be a bit of a challenge dodging through vehicles doing all sorts of different types of speed). I get off the freeway at 4,000 feet then climb to 6,000 feet on rural mountain roads that go up and down. In the past my way of dealing with it was to get a manual tranny, but now I'm thinking auto. If I get a 6 cylinder with a towing package (or add a tranny cooler) and change the tranny fluid exactly when I should, I think I'd be OK.

    The hybrid Escape is the only thing at the moment that seems to offer both the economy I'd like and power I need. I think I'll compromise on the economy side and go for the power and comfort. I'm tired of driving a car with uncomfortable seats!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm not sure you need that kind of space, nor would it be as good off road as an Escape or Explorer, so prolly not for mtngal.

    Hmm and those are "good" off roading? Maybe good at rough-roading but you surely jest that either of those are "off-road" worthy!!!!! HAAAAAAAAA

    -mike
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    If I get a 6 cylinder with a towing package (or add a tranny cooler) and change the tranny fluid exactly when I should, I think I'd be OK.

    FWIW I believe all '05 Escapes have a tranny cooler as well as an oil cooler. It used to be that you had to get the tow pkg to lay claim to an oil cooler but it seems that Ford decided to put it on all of them now. Probably to cut production costs.

    I have not looked under ours yet to check but nearly 100% of '05 owners on a dedicated Escape forum have reported having the oil cooler. With and without the tow pkg.

    Freestyle is the new 7 seater based on the Ford 500, the car that replaces the Taurus.

    I forgot to comment on this earlier. The Freestyle is based off of the Five Hundred which in turn is based off of the Volvo S80. So it has a very solid background.

    Also, the Five Hundred is not the sole replacement for the Taurus. The Taurus will actually remain in production for a couple more years as a fleet car (like it isn't one already) and is being replaced by both the Five Hundred and the Mazda6 based Fusion. The former is slightly larger than the Taurus and the latter is slightly smaller. Both will be offered with AWD and V6 power. Ford's new 3.5L Duratec is rumored to be headed for both too.

    The Freestyle is basically a pumped up wagon version of the Five Hundred with different sheet metal. However, since there is a wagon version of the Mazda6 (AWD offered there too) don't be surprised if a sport wagon version of the Fusion shows up in the future.

    mtngal,
    The only one of that AWD bunch that even comes close to fitting your needs is the Freestyle but I just had to elaborate. Sorry, it's a curse. ;)
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Thanks for the information - one of the reasons I love reading these boards is that I learn about all kinds of vehicles. I've looked at several that I would not have otherwise considered without this type of information.

    I showed my other half a picture of the Freestyle and his comment was "YOU can go look at it, I'm not." He's definitely interested in more of an SUV than a beefed up station wagon. In fact, he's talking about a soft top Unlimited (wouldn't hurt my feelings, either) now that the Liberty is out of the picture.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Relax, mike, she's not going boulder crawling with it any time soon! That's what her Jeep is for! ;-)

    My point is the Freestyle will likely be a little less capable than the Escape. I think the Escape would meet her needs easily.

    Freestyle is for the crowd that needs a minivan but wants an SUV.

    You mention those hills and I keep thinking "turbo" in the back of my mind. The air thins out and any N/A engine will be wheezing. That WRX blows by you because it has excess efficiency, so basically it just uses the BOV less (blow-off valve for non-techies).

    A Forester XT will do everything you want, you only sacrifice fuel economy, and even then not that much, 2005s have improved a bit there. You'll be happy with it for years to come, is my guess.

    Do the math and you'll find the fuel costs are just a small portion of your overall car expenses. Making the wrong choice and being unhappy with your vehicle (like you are with your Taco) is actually far more costly.

    -juice
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    My short list at the moment (still very subject to change) is any/all of the Subarus, and the Unlimited, with that 2005 JGC in the background if I win the lottery. If there are AWD Escape hybrids around when I finally get around to talking to the dealers (after the Taco sells), I'll look at them too.

    The WRX usually breezes by me when I'm just beginning the steepest portion, so the elevation isn't the reason - it is that a 4 cylinder does not have the horses that the WRX does!

    I really like the WRX wagon (what a fun vehicle to drive!) and would probably like the Forester XT, though I've always preferred the Outback over the Forester (have stayed away from looking at the XT because of the added cost of premium and the fact that it didn't get enough extra on the mpg to compensate for the extra fuel). If the 2005s will be improved I'll look at them again, because it would be so practical.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Unlimited is pretty cool. I got to check one out at NAIAS back in January. Makes a big difference in terms of passenger comfort.

    But I'm not sure I'd want to own two Wranglers.

    The 2005 Outback lost 180 lbs and gained 3 hp, up to 168hp. So if you thought the last one was just barely lacking, the new one ought to be fine.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    You're smart not to test drive the FXT. One trip up the Grapevine in the FXT and the yah hoos! coming from the left side of your brain will completely drown out the but what about the mpg thoughts from the right side of your brain :-)

    -Frank
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    Here's the links to the Freestyle Preview guide (if you want to look at them)

    Page 1
    Page 2
    Page 3
    Page 4
    Page 5
    Page 6
    Page 7

    I'm sorry it's in B/W but it was the only way I could get my scanner to get all the pics.

    Odie
  • happy2happy2 Member Posts: 2
    I am getting ready to purchase my first suv. Would be very appreciative of opinions of owners of mini-suvs on my decision.

    We don't need off the road really, just need better footing in snow-covered roads, or rainy long distance trips - which my son, our dogs, and equipment (bikes in all but winter months, and sleds in the winter months)take roughly monthly.

    The gear and pets have pretty well destroyed the interior of my little mercedes 190- which is now 14 years old anyway, 200,000+ miles - feel it has served its usefulness! Time for new, but nervous about a SUV because of scare stories regarding roll-overs. Am needing a car-like ride to make the transition for me from sedan to SUV easier.

    Plus, we only keep one vehicle at a time, so.. besides needing the above, need reliability.

    Initial research said we needed a mini SUV, and we narrowed it down (or so I thought!) to an Escape, Tribute or CRV. THOUGHT I had decided firmly on 2005 Tribute, but then discovered this forum....now, I am not so sure.

    Here is what we have at this point, would be
    grateful for opinions.

    For roughly the same price (almost to the penny)we have these 3 options after trade (which I definitely want to do):

    1. 2005 Mazda Tribute, AWD, 6 cyl - leather interior, DVD, side air bags, 6 disc cd.

    2. 2004 Ford Escape, AWD, 6 cyl - leather, moon-roof, side air bags, 6 disc cd.

    3. 2004 Honda CRV, AWD, 4 cyl, leather trim (but mainly cloth), moon-roof, side air bags, moon roof.

    Thought that while all were pretty comparable, we had decided on the Tribute:

    1. for the same price we got a 2005, not 2004, 2. we got the leather, and
    3. we preferred the DVD system over the moon-roof.

    All 3 we felt had similar (not identical, but acceptable rang) gas mileage, driveability, safety features.

    We felt a strong edge went to HOnda for reliability, BUT it was still a 2004 for the price of the Tribute's 2005, it was still a 4 cyl versus 6; and it didn't have the interior (leather) we wanted, or the dvd.

    We felt the edge went to the Tribute over the Escape due to getting a 2005 model for the price of the 2004, with the desired features we wanted.

    THEN, I started reading the forums here with the concerns regarding the Tribute's reliability, and maybe its inferior safety standings.

    Please tell me these are for 2-3 years ago, or rare experiences!! I really liked the vehicle we have selected (red with black trim, black leather) and the dealership.

    THANKS! Looking forward to hearing your views!
  • snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    I am, just like you, in the market for small size SUV. I have been doing some test drives over the weekends. I drove 2004 LX Trib and 2005 V6 yesterday. I was going to buy one but we couldn't agree on the price. There is a significant difference in terms interior. If I were you I would definately go with 2005 Trib.
    2004 was nice too but I liked 2005 more. In terms of power, they were both the same.
    One negativity for CRV is that, it is 4 cyl. 3 or 4 people some load and AC on, you won't be able to move the vehicle or pass some others on the highway or merge it safely. V6 rules, regardless of what you buy.
    I tested Saturn Vue too. I had not seen that much plastic in any vehicle. But the engine was powerful.

    I am also looking Ford certified used Escapes too and Equinox as well. We'll see what happens...
    Good luck with your purchase.
  • boomerbubbaboomerbubba Member Posts: 40
    A couple of observerations:

    Remember that the Tribute and the Escape are essentially the same vehicle, rebranded by Ford and Mazda.

    With your stated requirements -- safety, all-weather handling, etc. -- I'm surprised you didn't have the Subaru Forester on your short list. Although it is not considered a "pure" SUV because it is configured as a tall wagon -- higher than a sedan but a little lower than an SUV -- the Forester has about the same interior dimensions and very often is cross-shopped against the three vehicles you listed.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    We've owned an '02 Escape XLT and now have an '05 Escape Limited. To make a long story short, go with an '05 instead of the '04 if you decide on one of the twins.

    MY '05 brought about a lot of changes for the twins that make it worth the extra money if you ask me. Everything is quieter and a lot more solid now. Things like the sound the doors make when they close, road/wind noise, switchgear quality, etc. have all been improved for the better. Plus you now get 4 disc brakes with EBD, slightly better fuel economy, better interior materials (mostly the seats), a shoulder belt and head rest in the rear middle position, and several other small things that make living with it even better than before.

    Since safety is a concern of yours consider this, the CR-V's SABs are torso only while the '04 Escape has a torso and head bag at each front seat only. This means your head is NOT protected in the CR-V but is in the Escape. However, this is rumored, but not confirmed, to be changed in the '05 model CR-V. It definitely is in the Escape as I will explain below.

    The '05 Tribute you are looking at, as well as the '05 Escape, has side air curtains for both rows of seats. Not only do they react in a side crash, but they also deploy in the event of a rollover and stay inflated for a longer period of time in that instance. I don't know of any side bags that do this and not all curtains do it either. You have to read the small print.

    As far as reliability goes, the '02 was just fine. We had a bad battery that Ford replaced under warranty, no questions asked, and we had to take it in for a recall that affected the 01-mid-03 models. That's pretty much it. It ran fine and took everything we through at it without missing a beat.

    Something else worth mentioning, the front brakes on the pre-05 models are very soft, create a lot of black dust, and wear very very fast. Pad and rotor replacement was required in ours at 18,500 miles. This is not at all uncommon. Ford wanted to put the same junk on for $400 but we had an independent mechanic replace them with ceramics for $300. The '05s come with ceramics and dust as well as wear should be minimal. I can tell you that the dust problem no longer exists. Still too early to tell you how they are wearing.

    Anyway, I think you can see what I'm getting at. We were completely happy with the '02 but the '05 is definitely a notch or two better. That, the color, the SACs, and the gadgets that come with the Limited are the main reasons we traded the '02 in for the '05. If the Limited trim had been offered back in '02 we'd probably still have it.

    Oh, one more thing. The 4WD system in the '05 is a fully automatic system. From '04 on back the system had an "Auto" mode and an "On" mode. The "Auto" mode is self explanatory and the "On" mode, in a nutshell, locked the four wheels together to prevent the little bit of wheel that came with the old "Auto" mode.

    The old system performed flawlessly for us in rain, snow, sand, and mud but you had to think about it when in certain situations. The new system is completely invisible. The old "Auto" mode would allow the front wheels to slip somewhat in rain and snow until the rear wheels caught up (switching to "On" would prevent this but you had to remember to turn it back to Auto after leaving the slippery stuff or the drivline would bind). In contrast, the new system does not bind and I personally can't get it to slip at all. Of course, it hasn't snowed here since we bought it back in June so I can't offer much more than what it can do in the rain.

    Hope that helps!
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Is there a reason the Subarus didn't make your final list? I don't own any of these (my SUV is only occasionally included with the mini-SUV category) but I've looked at most of them at one time or another. I've always liked the Subarus and the turbos they offer give you the V6 power without the V6, and heated seats without leather (leather + shorts * summer = OUCH!). I far prefer the Forester over the CRV.

    As far as your 3 choices, I'd take either the Trib or the Escape over the CRV, but that's just me.
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