I drive a '99 Expedition, a fairly good handling large SUV. At the time we were impressed that its turn radius was less than our '94 Chrysler Concorde. Having said that however, it is still a more difficult vehicle to manuever in tight situations such as crowded parking lots. I consider a minivan easier to handle in such situations. But you will learn with time to handle a larger SUV.
Have you considered the Acura MDX? It offers comporable seating and cargo space to most large SUVs in the SQ/Expy class (not as much as Suburban class however). Moreover the MDX handles much better and is much more agile than the SQ/Expy (although it gives up some offroad/towing).
Yes, I have considered an MDX, in fact, test drove it 4 times and read EVERYTHING I could find about it. Problem is leg room in the 3rd row. We are a tall family. Plus one dog. The 3rd row looks like a toy seat to us. But thanks for the idea. I would have an MDX in a heartbeat if we were all shorter people!
Well I'm not a mom, but I am a dad who has driven a minivan for 4 years prior to getting my Sequoia. Aside from a nicer ride and sitting up a little higher - it's not that much different. You don't have as much size differential to adjust to compared to somebody moving up from a car. I get the feeling that you are concerned that the Sequoia is going to feel likes it's always on the verge of rolling over. Nothing could be farther from the truth. This is a very nice riding vehicle that handles as well as well as any minivan that I have driven in most situations, better in bad weather, worse in very extreme avoidance maneuvers (pretty sure bad weather happens more often). I have not had the displeasure of an extreme avoidance maneuver, so I hope all the hype about VSC is correct when I need it! It is a little wider and that takes some getting used to. A minivan will fit in some spots that I wouldn't squeeze my Sequoia into. Of course I wasn't too concerned about getting digs on the minivan and I baby the Sequoia.
I test drove a Sequoia Ltd. for the first time yesterday. I was very surprised at how nice it drove. I thought the ride was much better than my '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd. I really liked the vehicle except for the metal-tone inetrior trim. Does anyone know if there are any aftermarket wood trim kits available for this vehicle?
I'm not a mom either, but I am a dad who has driven the wife's minivan for 10 years prior to getting my Sequoia, and rruck1 is right. Other than being up higher, it's not much different from a minivan and it definitely feels very stable. I don't have Firestone tires and rolling the vehicle is honestly not on my list of concerns. In over 15 years of SUV usage, I have honestly never felt like the vehicle was going to tip over, well, except for once when we were tilted sideways ~25 degrees on a narrow, washed out trail ... but the vehicle did better than us (we were looking for the motion discomfort bags), and you'll never do anything like that, right?
I checked out the blind spots this morning, and they are both caused by headrest. The passenger-side center-row headrest partially blocks the passenger-side rear-quarter window, and the driver's headrest partially blocks the driver-side center-row window, if that all makes sense. Annoying but not debilitating, and you can always remove them.
Aside to Drew: "[VSC helps prevent] the skid from occuring in the first place" -- yes, of course -- we all pray that true! It may be that until the computer controls the steering wheel, unwitting humans may still defeat VSC, but but I do leave it turned on.
We sometimes carry a Sears "Inclinometer" that measures how far you are tilted (left/right or front back). That's how I knew the slope was 25 degrees. We also noticed that when you make a turn (say getting off on an exit ramp), centrifugal force also deflects the meter during the turn. We have seen deflections of nearly 30 degrees on a hard, fact turn.
So are those equivalent measures? Can we infer that the vehicle can tilt 30 degrees without tipping? That has been our assumption (good so far), but it has always bothered me that on a turn, it seems like you would start skiding before you would tip. But when you are on a side slope, you definitely tip if you get too far over -- no skiding sideways (unless you are on mud and then you were crazy to begin with).
Any thoughts?? Most manufacturers don't publish "do not exceed" numbers for side hill lie's (except maybe Hummers, which I think claims 60 degrees).
Finally someone out there who owns both vehicles, has driven them both over 2000 miles apiece and can give the world at Edmunds.com an unbiased opinion about both of them.
Yes they are both great vehicles but the Sequoia is better by a single star (five versus four).
Both vehicles cost me a similar amount of money (MDX/Touring and a 2WD Limited Sequoia with extras such as moon roof, curtain/side air bags, rear spoiler, 6CD changer +other minor stuff). I was able to negotiate $2722 off the MSRP of the Sequoia but not a dime off the MDX. This is a very important point that the public needs to consider when comparison shopping. It's totally irrelevant to compare MSRP's of the vehicles one wants. One need's to look at the bottom line and then determine which is the better value for the money.
The two vehicle's are utilized for similar tasks. Basically in "street" mode (grocery store and highway type deals). Off-roading is not a serious consideration with 40K vehicles for me and I believe the majority of SUV buyers.
Now down to the reasons why the Sequoia came out ahead.
LOOKS : Sequoia has it over MDX. Very few people notice the MDX when parked side by side to the Sequoia on my drive way. From the rear the MDX lines look too similar to a mini-van (Mazda MPG ?). The nose of the MDX looks a little odd, although I wouldn't say it was ugly. I thought it would grow on me after a while but it wasn't really. From the side, the Sequoia's running boards look great, the MDX's lack is a definite minus). The Toyota towers over the MDX and therefore is much more impressive. The 16" wheels look small on the Sequoia though.
FIT/FINISH : Very, very similar. For some reason the leather in the MDX is not wearing as well as the Sequoia. It maybe because I'm heavier than my wife and am the primary driver of the MDX.
ROAD NOISE : big plus for the Sequoia. Hate the wind noise generated by the MDX roof-rack that so many other people have experienced. Hate to take off the roof-rack as the MDX probably will look so much less macho (have ordered hood deflector, hope it will help). I think that the Sequoia having much more ground clearance is also a help here.
ENGINE NOISE : Sequoia has a small edge. Here, I think the V8 is working less hard than the MDX's V6. That or Toyota's cabin sound roofing is superior.
EASE OF PARKING : MDX has it here but only because of the Sequoias length. I am afraid that as far as vehicle width is concerned, the one inch wider Sequoia is not an issue and hardly noticeable. Both vehicles are wide. In fact I find it easier to park the Sequoia in the my garage because of the power folding mirrors feature.
INTERIOR SPACIOUSNESS : Sequoia has it here. I'm not a great believer in figures quoted by the manufacturer's. I am a firm believer of getting in and trying it out.
THIRD SEAT : It's a wash here. The ability to occasionally transform my MDX's seats into a flat bed is equally important to me as the Sequoias ability to carry 8 (versus 7) people on long journeys in comfort. The third seat on the MDX is really for kids where as the Sequoias easily accommodates adults.
MPG : MDX is a winner. Disappointed that I've only averaged 17 mpg with the MDX. Surprisingly I'm getting 15.5 with the much heavier Toyota.
DRIVING : Surprisingly comfortable ride in the Sequoia considering it's based on a truck platform. I find it only a ad more cumbersome than the MDX. My kids complained about feeling sick in the third seat of the MDX. I think the tail end of the MDX wanders too much. The superior height of the Sequoia is a definite advantage as far as road visibility.
MECHANICAL ISSUES : Very early days yet. No problems with the Sequoia so far. Minor rattles and creaks with the MDX that I hope the dealer will sort out at the next service.
Even though I've made this comparison, I've realized that the two vehicles are not in the same class apart from price. The MDX is really a spacious mid-sized SUV whereas the the Toyota is full sized and yes there is a difference.
I feel that I got a lot more vehicle for the money with the Toyota. not just in size/weight/V8 but also in technology such as the Vehicle Skid Control system that's absent on the MDX, Curtain air bags, Power folding mirrors, Day time running lights, glass breakage sensor are the main ones.
I personally was mildly surprised that the MDX won Motor Trend's SUV of the year award. And I bought it for that reason. But thinking about it, a true SUV should have much greater emphasis placed on towing and Off-roading . In both these areas the MDX is severely lacking (even Edmunds states so). The MDX to me is a hybrid. More of a people carrier than an SUV per definition. Acura has done very well though in producing a vehicle in a class which it had no previous pedigree but it's still a notch below the Toyota.
As a footnote I am just going to add a comment by a neighbor who eight months ago purchased a brand new I/I (53K + Tax/License he told me). "Man am I hissed, you got a better looking, more roomy, ewer technology truck for 15K less. Jeep, and it's made by the same company !
Maybe that's why I didn't hesitate to buy it. What do you folks think ?
Apologies, Edmund's spell checker totally screwed me up. The last but two sentences of #865 should have read :
I am just going to add a comment by a neighbor who eight months ago purchased a brand new L/C (53K + Tax/License he told me). "Man am I pissed, you got a better looking, more roomy, newer technology truck than me for 15K less. Jeez, and it's made by the same company !"
Great comparison. Well organized and informative. Its nice to see something like this from a source that doesn't get advertising money from one company or another.
just to add a point: the MDX was built on the Honda Oddysey platform, so it is more of a minivan-ish than a truck. The SEQ was built on a modified Tundra platform. A small, but important distinction b/w these two.
Looking at your comparison chart, one might also conclude that the SEQ really is more than one star ahead of the MDX :-)
Really like our ltd. Nice to have V8 power and lots of room. The price of the ltd is without a rear spoiler,side airbags and hood deflector. Wife did not like the spoiler. This is my first Toyota,hope it runs like my Honda.
Thanks Rajas. Outstanding comparison comments: I have made a good choice on hosing the SEQ. Toyota really have done their homework on producing a fine SUV. Watch out Jr Exp and Uncle Tahoes, Sequoia is a competitor. SR5 2WD AS 587miles
One key distinction that must be pointed out though, in all fairness -- you're comparing a 2WD Sequoia to an AWD MDX. Yes, the MDX's AWD system is not full-time 4WD and does not have VSC, but it at least has the capability to drive 4 wheels in various situations (slippage detected, during acceleration, at low speeds when the VTM-4 is locked). Obviously, though, some buyers (especially those from warmer climates) don't feel they need to pay the premium for 4WD.
Why does that affect the comparison somewhat (though obviously not totally)? The price difference is one; while your discounted Sequoia price came close to the non-discounted MDX price, a 4WD Seq would have cost more. Not necessarily enough to dissuade the potential buyer, but there is a difference.
The 4WD Seq also weighs 195 lbs more, which might have a slight affect on your assessment of the Sequoia being a "tad more cumbersome" than the MDX. The 4WD should have a very slight effect on your fuel economy too (just 1MPG less for highway according to EPA numbers).
Anyway, it's just a point when making comparisons. Congratulations on having two excellent vehicles, and thanks again for sharing your experiences.
The latest Consumer Reports has a mention of how the addition of VSC to the Land Cruiser now makes them put it into their "recommended" list.
Apparently the previous, VSC-less Land Cruiser failed their emergency avoidance test. With VSC and a re-test, it now earns a "fair" instead of a "fail" grade. VSC was enough to make the difference in that test, despite vehicle characteristics that are obviously not optimal for it.
Hopefully the Sequoia will do better, given its fresher design and the fact that it has VSC.
Consumer Reports further states that they commend Toyota for making all its SUV's (except the RAV4) available with VSC, and that BMW and MB are the other automakers who have it too (though they don't note that they had it earlier, especially MB).
You can consider that a plus for VSC.
However, all vehicles, even VSC-equipped ones, have their limits. VSC extends those limits, but taking advantage of that and pushing the vehicle even further is not a great idea. VSC won't take a poor-emergency-handling vehicle like the Land Cruiser and turn it into an X5. VSC won't help in more severe cases when there simply isn't enough tire grip for it to be truly effective.
Nevertheless, VSC definitely raises the odds in your favor. I know there are complaints about the traction control system and cutting power, but for the rare situations where that's an issue, you can just turn it off (which you can do in the Seq but not the Highlander).
Wmquan your point is noted. I think you got the gist of what I was getting at. And that is once again that, I like many people, don't want to pay the extra for 4WD/AWD as I use my SUV exclusively in "street" mode. Perhaps living in SD, southern California I can get away with it.
The way I think when making my comparison is not "Oh but my MDX has AWD which must be better than the 2WD on the Sequoia". Instead it's "that damn Acura company screwed me out of circa 3K for a feature I don't really want/need. Boy what value I would have got if there had have been a 2WD MDX available."
Is it necessary for a company to produce all it's SUV's with 4WD(AWD). I don't think so. Just look at the vast numbers of SUV's out on the road that are only 2WD and one soon comes to that realization.
From what I can gather, the number of Sequoias to be produced yearly is similar (not vastly different) to the number of MDX's Yet it irks me that Acura force's you to take only AWD vehicles. These are equipped two ways only :- with "Standard" or "Touring" package. Like it or lump it. Personally I much prefer Toyota's method of marketing where one has the choice to order equipment to the level one wants.
For those who are interested in making a Sequoia purchase, I'll just briefly relate my experience. Purchased a Silver Sky Limited 2WD with various factory options amounting to an MSRP of $41,722 from Toyota of the Desert through the internet manager, Dan Dixon for $39,000 +Tax/License/Doc. Fees. I made the purchase just after Christmas at what I thought would be a real slow time for the dealers (i.e. thought I'd get a good price). Most pleasant car purchasing experience I've ever had. Boy the internet is powerful. Sent out many E-mails through Edmunds car buying service to Dealers within a 200 mile radius. Here in SD I visited several dealerships, test drove a vehicle, checked out the equipment and selected a color. However, at the time there was very little stock at any of the dealers I visited or at any within a 50 mile radius or so. Nobody was willing to budge more than $700 from MSRP.
Took no more than 2 hours on the phone making the deal. Which really just amounted to several short negotiating phone calls. Until we finally agreed on a price. A cinch, no high pressure tactics at all. They knew what I wanted and they related the individual cost of the options which I bounced off Edmunds to double check they weren't hood winking me with any dealer installed extras.
To cap it all, the vehicle was delivered to my doorstep (some 140 miles from the dealership) free of charge. That's what I call service.
Personally I do NOT like the way Toyota prices their vehicles. For the most part (there are a few exceptions) no one buys a stripped Toyota. Toyota "pretends" (with their pricing schemes) that stripped Avalons, Sequoias, Highlanders, etc are available when in fact they do not even have stripped versions of these vehicles available. I much more favor Acura simplified pricing methods.
To each his own however. Just because I find Toyota's pricing methods a joke does not mean I don't like them. In fact I own a '97 RAV4 Ltd and am seriously considering another one for my teenage drivers (16 & 17 year old boys). I just wish Toyota would cut the crap and simplify their pricing game (and again I emphasize the word "game" because for the most part the bare-bones Toyotas do not exist!).
rajans I'm sorry you hate your MDX now. No one forced you to buy it. This vehicle is so hot now that you will have no trouble selling it and then getting another Toyota.
Untrue. I order build Avalons, Sequoias, and other models for folks all the time. Normal production procedures require each region to decide how cars need to be equipped for the masses. The Masses, per se, do not typically want "strippie" cars so that's why we are able to build order cars to certain folks' liking, and it merely requires patience.
For the MOST part, Toyota does not build bare-bones vehicles because that is not what the consumer wants. Since Toyota is in business to give the consumer what they want then they should price these vehicles acccordingly. As I said I like Toyotas (we've continuously owned one since 1975), but I find their pricing methods very frustrating and not all straightforward.
I just got a fairly stripped SR5 4x4 in today. It does have the rear AC and convenience package but does not have the moonroof, nor the alloy/running board/hitch package. They do exist but are certainly rare.
Au contraire Monsieur msu79gt82. Overall I am happy with the MDX. I did not say I hated it and the 4 stars I gave it should speak for itself. When comparing the two vehicles, I concluded that for my family's type of usage, one was extremely good but the other was excellent. The item I most disliked about the MDX was the amount of interior noise generated by the roof rack. However this will be negated in the near future, even if I have to purchase an after market rack.
One thing that I mentioned was that I felt that the Toyota was better value for money. But what I omitted to say was that Acura is a luxury make. Perhaps one would expect to pay a premium for that status.
In the automotive business, value is often in the eye of the beholder. Because also in this capitalist society of ours, value is too readily equated to an intangible phenomenon called status.
I have never driven either (4wd or 2wd), and I live where we do get snow, ice, slush in the winters. I'm the one who is debating on whether or not to get a Sequoia or another minivan. If I get a Sequoia, what is better for our family vehicle. (No off-roading for us. No towing most likely, but slight chance of a boat next year)
I am confused also about the difference between 4wd and All wheel drive. Is it the same thing?
AC DR CC ST PG CQ CF and MSRPis $33815. Sells like wildfire here! I even have a silver 4wd version of that car available without the CC! It's got DR CC PG CQ AC CF and MSRP is $37015. I think those are the least costly cars I have available out here in CA. How do your regular stock cars come w/o having to mess with their build scheme?
The Sequoia with its standard VSC/TRAC will serve you nicely under adverse weather conditions... that is for sure! While the Sienna with VSC/Trac is cheaper, the resale value and seat comfort and utility need to be considered. Of course, Sienna (or most minivans these days) are more car-like. One drive will tell ya what you like better. Really.
My 98 Sienna (without traction control or VSC, which I would have chosen if it had been available in 98) is not as secure in snow (hilly upstate NY) as my 01 Seq. In fact, the Sienna was pretty disappointing until I added 4 excellent snow tires- it is much better with them. On the other hand, the Seq is great in adverse road conditions. As mentioned in previous posts, the Seq 4wd may be left on for dry roads, terrible roads, or anything in between, which is handy around here where temps can hover near freezing, road conditions can change around the bend, etc. Plus, the Seq just feels more secure in the snow, as you might expect (and would be even better, I presume, with 4 snows). Just tonight, during heavy snow, I found an empty parking lot and tried skidding, spinning, stopping etc. in the Seq and found it to respond great in the snow. If winter driving is your only criteria, I would easily choose the Seq. As to other features, I would note that while there are the obvious differences between vans and SUV's, the third seat in the Sienna is more comfortable and roomy than in the Seq, and, in general, the Sienna is much easier to get in and out of (especially if you have car seats, strollers etc.). But, as you probably can figure, I bought the Seq and drive it every chance I get- much more fun. Both vehicles are excellent.
Thanks for responding to my comparison questions,(this board is great!) but I am not the one who has or is considering a Previa in comparison to the Sequoia. There are 2 of us on this board with minivan comparison questions. He/she has the Previa posts, mine are comparing Sequoia to 2001 Chrysler Town and Country or the 2001 Odyssey. If I get a minivan it will be one of those 2 and they both have VSC. I am not sure if they work the same, because as I understand it, the minivans do not have 4wd, therefore it may be less efficient than in the Seq. I don't really understand all the mechanics, but I do feel safer closer to the ground in a minivan, while I can't help preferring the tank-like sturdiness and safety features of the Sequoia.
If you can respond to my specific concerns, you can read my previous posts, #792, 827, 857, 879.
Thanks,.....I will be test driving all again today, hopefully.
The only minivans that offer stability control are the '01 Ford Windstar, and the Toyota Sienna. The Odyssey and T&C are not available with these systems. Stability control about just as effective whether you have two or four wheel drive. The only difference is that it is less likely to activate with a vehicle that has 4 drive wheels since the extra two driving wheels provide twice as much traction over a 2WD vehicle.
Hi stewardrobbins- Without actually measuring decibels, giving my general impression, they are both pleasantly quiet. I do not find road noise to be a negative with either and would not consider it a factor in decision making. However, even if the Seq was a bit louder, it would have less adverse effect on me, since the Seq sound system is nicer, leading to better quality/ louder music (at least I personally tend to crank it up a bit) reducing the chance of road noise distraction.
BTW- It was bone chillin' outside tonight, the wind was whipping. Those Seq heated seats were toasting my buns in no time (prior to the heater kicking in). For those in cold climates, I recommend them.
Well after a long month I finally am the "PROUD" owner of a White Limited 4X4 fully loaded SEQUOIA with the much wanted OAK interior!!
Ive spent weeks on the message board reading and posting various experiences and it was worth it.
Just driving the sucker home (jaming with my new 6 CD changer and 10 speakers) I had many a head turn and point. I even had a few ask me to roll down my window so that they could ask me questions! (Isnt it great to be KING/QUEEN of the road!!)
hey dudes, well i'll probably never own a $40K suv, but i wash em and drive em all the time, i work at a toyota dealership, and i have found that the sequoia's are nice, but some of them have a confusing four wheel drive system, its kind of hard to engage, well gotta go,
I am about to get a thunder gray ltd with 6-disc changer, side curtain airbags, sunroof, toyo guard, wind deflector, spoiler for $39K, $42,000 out the door. Is this a good price? It's 3000 off sticker, I've heard of others doing better. I'm in SoFla.
Why do you consider the Suburban the closest to the Sequoia? The physical dimensions are hugely different. I looked at all of the vehicles (Sequoia, Expedition, Tahoe and Suburban). I drove them all. The Suburban generally fills a different need than the Sequoia. It has a lot more space behind the third seat because it is much longer. This is perfect for large families or people with a lot of gear. There are downsides of course to this size. The Suburban is a very long vehicle, making it more difficult to park (turning radius does not compensate for extreme length). Yes, the Suburban is a superior towing vehicle. Again, perfect for some people. The closest to the Sequoia are the Expedition and the Tahoe, not the Suburban. Regarding Motor Trend article, it clearly stated that overall the Sequoia was a superior SUV. Incidentally, the Tahoe had a bit of an advantage as it had the offroad package so not really apples to apples in offroad ability. Your negativity towards the Sequoia is overriding the facts. There is more to the value of a vehicle than the price. Price is what you pay. Value is what you get. With the Sequoia you get an impressive vehicle that is clearly the category leader. One other comment about price. If you notice most of the posts here talk about price or availability. Go to the Expedition forum and you'll see most of the posts are about service bulletins, breakdowns and problems. I am a Sequoia owner. But I did my homework and was very close to getting the expedition. When a Sequoia came to our local dealer and I had a chance to drive and check out there was no comparison and the deal was done. I bought cheap (false value) with Chevy's a couple of times. Face the facts, Toyotas are better made, have better reliability ratings and higher owner satisfaction. This can be backed up with any Consumer Reports ratings or other publications.
P.S. Are you a Suburban dealer or salesperson. Do you own any of the vehicles discussed here? If you don't you probably should be careful what you say as the real world day to day driving is more valid than you reading brochures and specifications from the internet.
the Seq is larger than the Tahoe and smaller than the Burb. Did CR do a survey on the Seq? AS Toyota's are now manufactured in the good US of A, quality has suffered as compared to when they were manufactured in Japan. I guess a result of the high tariffs. Don't think any of their US manufacturing plants would qualify for the Deming Award. But then again, Deming doesn't mean anything to the US consumer....as the Toyota exces well know...
Does anyone know if anyone makes an aftermarket rear wind deflector for the SR5 version? I understand that Toyota doesn't offer it, but I really like the look (to each his own!) but cannot justify the extra monet to make the jump the LTD. Thanks.
I have been looking at the seq for a couple of weeks. This is a very nice vehicle, but there is one thing that bothers me. The hideous silver trim around the dash on the limited. Can this be replaced with something else.
Obyone, You're so pitifully unaware of the facts. Go to JD Power and see Toyota listed at #3 behind its sibling Lexus.
The Toyota factories have won multiple awards.
If you're somehow suggesting that GM has better overall quality then Toyota then you're obviously under some kind of X-file influence. The majority of GM brands wallow with the newbie korean/elbonian wannabe manufacturers.
search this forum for multiple appends about aftermarket wood dashes. Also sequoiasolutions.com
With the "controversial" (hows that for being diplomatic) dash that Toyota has chosen, along with the high end buyer profile, it appears that you'll have a choice of aftermarket wood kits. I think I've seen prices from 300-500$ (installed?)
My month old Sequoia has it's first problem. The CD Changer won't play nor eject the CD's. I went to the dealer on Sat and he told me they are having a lot of problems with the 6 disk CD changer and the service manager wishes that Toyota would change the manufactor on them. The only thing he said he could do is order a new unit which will take 5 days to come in. My Q is has anyone else on this board have had the same problem. Also I believe I recalled someone saying you can put an Alpine DVD-rom navigation system in it's place. Is this system a radio/cdchanger or just a radio and one CD? How much?
I need a good price. I'm looking to pay $4000 to $5000 off sticker on a White Sequoia LTD. Anyone know of a dealer in Florida that can give me a deal? Please advise rryanjr@cfl.rr.com
I do not appreciate being called "pitifully unaware". But then I wouldn't expect anything less from you. Do you understand the Deming Award? It is THE AWARD for quality assurance among Japanese manufacturers. It is painfully obvious you do not. You cannot compare JD Powers with the Deming Award. It is a no brainer. After you've read up on the subject, come back and we can discuss quality issues. Till then I'll just ignore you're ignorance.
so as to answer 714cut regarding the Seq vs. burb vs. tahoe. Other than that I didn't see any reference to GM. Did you? Please reread my post. Perhaps you were in a rush with your answer to fully comprehend the scope.
You might look at the alpine IVA c 800 which is an indash single CD player with popup LCD screen. This will connect via an alpine network to a variety of accessories including a DVD based satellite navigation system, DVD player, 6 or 12 disk changer, and others. It is very customizable but be prepared to pony up as it is very expensive. Check out the Landcruiser forum: there was a post awhile back of some pics of this system installed in a LC. Total cost will run about 4 to 6 K.
I live in Northern British Columbia. It is a real winter here. Lots of snow and sometimes temps as low as-40. This year has been milder though. I've had my Sequoia for 2 months now. The heating system has no problem heating the vehicle. Im sure the rear system helps with such a large vehicle. The vehicle is wonderful in the snow. The ATRAC and VSC work very effectively and the auto 4wd is seamless.
A couple of things that I would change in a perfect world: --the heater is noisy and obtrusive --the engine is noisy upon startup in cold weather but is a gem when warm. Could be related to all the valves and cams? When warm though this is the smoothest and sweetest engine around, with ample power. --sometimes the vsc kicks in a little more often/quickly than you would prefer. However maybe I would be skidding out if it didn't kick in?
I am also frustrated about fog lamps,but driving lamps are better anyways. Has anyone had any success finding aftermarket lighting?
Regarding comments about noise it is the quietest vehicle I've ever been in. When we first took it for a test drive my wife and I looked at each other and both commented on the incredible quietness. I'm sure that wonderful engine has a big role in this.
Fuel economy is poor but you go in to purchasing a vehicle like this with your eyes wide open! I didn't buy it because it is the most fuel efficient!
Overall the truck has exceeded my expectations. I also get constant comments about how great a truck it is and how great it looks.
I'm jealous. Almost no snow (not recently) in the Lower mainland. :-(
Most stability control systems are on the conservative side. Better to try to catch the skid before it goes out of hand rather than when you pass the point of no return!
With those cold temperatures, perhaps you would like to try switching to Mobil 1 tri-synthetic 0W30 or 5W30? That could help significantly since synthetic oil flows much more freely than mineral (dino) oil in cold conditions. I run Mobil 1 15W50 myself (one of my vehicle manufacturer's approved viscocities - NOT a Sequoia, BTW), which is good for temperatures down to -39 degrees Celcius. Mobil 1 5W30 is good to -50 degrees C. With synthetic oil, you can also lengthen your oil change intervals since the oil will not break down the same way that normal oil does.
FYI, foglamps are only supposed to supplement the low beam headlamps. You may want to try one of Hella's driving lamps for better visibility. Hella's light tunnel facility can help you to decide on which lamp you prefer. Compare the high intensity discharge Xenon driving lamps vs. the halogen driving lamps and you will be blown away by the difference, I know I was. The former variety are more expensive of course.
Good luck! Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
By definition ignorance means a lack of knowledge and therefore is not the same thing as stupid. Hey I too have never heard of the Demming award either. Really do not care to know that much about it. If it really were a prestigious award in America it would be wide-spread news and well known to the general public!
JD Powers is a prestigious award because it is well known and the selection process is understood. As the old saying goes if a person has to be introduced as the "famous so-and-so" they must not be very famous!!
I for one would put very little stock in an award that is so little known and secretive as to be virtually unheard of to the general population.
Anyone who preaches about Toyota's quality might want to learn how they got there. It didn't happen overnight. It was a commitment made by Mr. Toyoda and his management team towards attaining the Deming Award not JD Powers. Unfortunately, it appears that this is no longer true. The tundrasolutions.com board is evidence of this. Especially of the vehicles manufactured in the US of A.
It's a good thing that Toyota didn't share your point of view as I doubt you would consider buying one had it not been for the Deming Award.
There are a lot of posts recently about the VSC. Here is an old post. While I think the VSC is probably a good idea for some folks I dont think it is for everyone. These quotes were taken directly from the Feb 01 Four Wheeler review of the 2001 4wd of the year article they ran.
Anyone thinking about a Sequoia should read this, as well as the posts here and other articles.
"...I think Toyota's engineers out smarted themselves" -Jon Thompson
"The weight is bad enough, but the real problem is the traction control system, which when activated feels as though the engine has lost all its power" -Greg Smith
"Generally I'm a fan of Toyota, but somehow things went awry with the traction-control system and the VSC system on the new Sequoia"...."once you get it off-road and demand performance, forget it" -Michael Rudd
"By the end of the test, I was wishing I had brought along some wire cutters: -Craig Perronne refering to the computer traction control systems
They did like the window in the tailgate feature, large and comfortable interior but did not like the "marginal handling" and felt the engine was "adequate".
Comments
Have you considered the Acura MDX? It offers comporable seating and cargo space to most large SUVs in the SQ/Expy class (not as much as Suburban class however). Moreover the MDX handles much better and is much more agile than the SQ/Expy (although it gives up some offroad/towing).
I checked out the blind spots this morning, and they are both caused by headrest. The passenger-side center-row headrest partially blocks the passenger-side rear-quarter window, and the driver's headrest partially blocks the driver-side center-row window, if that all makes sense. Annoying but not debilitating, and you can always remove them.
Aside to Drew: "[VSC helps prevent] the skid from occuring in the first place" -- yes, of course -- we all pray that true! It may be that until the computer controls the steering wheel, unwitting humans may still defeat VSC, but but I do leave it turned on.
So are those equivalent measures? Can we infer that the vehicle can tilt 30 degrees without tipping? That has been our assumption (good so far), but it has always bothered me that on a turn, it seems like you would start skiding before you would tip. But when you are on a side slope, you definitely tip if you get too far over -- no skiding sideways (unless you are on mud and then you were crazy to begin with).
Any thoughts?? Most manufacturers don't publish "do not exceed" numbers for side hill lie's (except maybe Hummers, which I think claims 60 degrees).
Yes they are both great vehicles but the Sequoia is better by a single star (five versus four).
Both vehicles cost me a similar amount of money (MDX/Touring and a 2WD Limited Sequoia with extras such as moon roof, curtain/side air bags, rear spoiler, 6CD changer +other minor stuff). I was able to negotiate $2722 off the MSRP of the Sequoia but not a dime off the MDX. This is a very important point that the public needs to consider when comparison shopping. It's totally irrelevant to compare MSRP's of the vehicles one wants. One need's to look at the bottom line and then determine which is the better value for the money.
The two vehicle's are utilized for similar tasks. Basically in "street" mode (grocery store and highway type deals). Off-roading is not a serious consideration with 40K vehicles for me and I believe the majority of SUV buyers.
Now down to the reasons why the Sequoia came out ahead.
LOOKS : Sequoia has it over MDX. Very few people notice the MDX when parked side by side to the Sequoia on my drive way. From the rear the MDX lines look too similar to a mini-van (Mazda MPG ?). The nose of the MDX looks a little odd, although I wouldn't say it was ugly. I thought it would grow on me after a while but it wasn't really. From the side, the Sequoia's running boards look great, the MDX's lack is a definite minus). The Toyota towers over the MDX and therefore is much more impressive. The 16" wheels look small on the Sequoia though.
FIT/FINISH : Very, very similar. For some reason the leather in the MDX is not wearing as well as the Sequoia. It maybe because I'm heavier than my wife and am the primary driver of the MDX.
ROAD NOISE : big plus for the Sequoia. Hate the wind noise generated by the MDX roof-rack that so many other people have experienced. Hate to take off the roof-rack as the MDX probably will look so much less macho (have ordered hood deflector, hope it will help). I think that the Sequoia having much more ground clearance is also a help here.
ENGINE NOISE : Sequoia has a small edge. Here, I think the V8 is working less hard than the MDX's V6. That or Toyota's cabin sound roofing is superior.
EASE OF PARKING : MDX has it here but only because of the Sequoias length. I am afraid that as far as vehicle width is concerned, the one inch wider Sequoia is not an issue and hardly noticeable. Both vehicles are wide. In fact I find it easier to park the Sequoia in the my garage because of the power folding mirrors feature.
INTERIOR SPACIOUSNESS : Sequoia has it here. I'm not a great believer in figures quoted by the manufacturer's. I am a firm believer of getting in and trying it out.
THIRD SEAT : It's a wash here. The ability to occasionally transform my MDX's seats into a flat bed is equally important to me as the Sequoias ability to carry 8 (versus 7) people on long journeys in comfort. The third seat on the MDX is really for kids where as the Sequoias easily accommodates adults.
MPG : MDX is a winner. Disappointed that I've only averaged 17 mpg with the MDX. Surprisingly I'm getting 15.5 with the much heavier Toyota.
DRIVING : Surprisingly comfortable ride in the Sequoia considering it's based on a truck platform. I find it only a ad more cumbersome than the MDX. My kids complained about feeling sick in the third seat of the MDX. I think the tail end of the MDX wanders too much. The superior height of the Sequoia is a definite advantage as far as road visibility.
MECHANICAL ISSUES : Very early days yet. No problems with the Sequoia so far. Minor rattles and creaks with the MDX that I hope the dealer will sort out at the next service.
Even though I've made this comparison, I've realized that the two vehicles are not in the same class apart from price. The MDX is really a spacious mid-sized SUV whereas the the Toyota is full sized and yes there is a difference.
I feel that I got a lot more vehicle for the money with the Toyota. not just in size/weight/V8 but also in technology such as the Vehicle Skid Control system that's absent on the MDX, Curtain air bags, Power folding mirrors, Day time running lights, glass breakage sensor are the main ones.
I personally was mildly surprised that the MDX won Motor Trend's SUV of the year award. And I bought it for that reason. But thinking about it, a true SUV should have much greater emphasis placed on towing and Off-roading . In both these areas the MDX is severely lacking (even Edmunds states so). The MDX to me is a hybrid. More of a people carrier than an SUV per definition. Acura has done very well though in producing a vehicle in a class which it had no previous pedigree but it's still a notch below the Toyota.
As a footnote I am just going to add a comment by a neighbor who eight months ago purchased a brand new I/I (53K + Tax/License he told me). "Man am I hissed, you got a better looking, more roomy, ewer technology truck for 15K less. Jeep, and it's made by the same company !
Maybe that's why I didn't hesitate to buy it. What do you folks think ?
I am just going to add a comment by a neighbor who eight months ago purchased a brand new L/C (53K + Tax/License he told me). "Man am I pissed, you got a better looking, more roomy, newer technology truck than me for 15K less. Jeez, and it's made by the same company !"
just to add a point: the MDX was built on the Honda Oddysey platform, so it is more of a minivan-ish than a truck. The SEQ was built on a modified Tundra platform. A small, but important distinction b/w these two.
Looking at your comparison chart, one might also conclude that the SEQ really is more than one star ahead of the MDX :-)
price of the ltd is without a rear spoiler,side airbags and hood
deflector. Wife did not like the spoiler. This is my first
Toyota,hope it runs like my Honda.
One key distinction that must be pointed out though, in all fairness -- you're comparing a 2WD Sequoia to an AWD MDX. Yes, the MDX's AWD system is not full-time 4WD and does not have VSC, but it at least has the capability to drive 4 wheels in various situations (slippage detected, during acceleration, at low speeds when the VTM-4 is locked). Obviously, though, some buyers (especially those from warmer climates) don't feel they need to pay the premium for 4WD.
Why does that affect the comparison somewhat (though obviously not totally)? The price difference is one; while your discounted Sequoia price came close to the non-discounted MDX price, a 4WD Seq would have cost more. Not necessarily enough to dissuade the potential buyer, but there is a difference.
The 4WD Seq also weighs 195 lbs more, which might have a slight affect on your assessment of the Sequoia being a "tad more cumbersome" than the MDX. The 4WD should have a very slight effect on your fuel economy too (just 1MPG less for highway according to EPA numbers).
Anyway, it's just a point when making comparisons. Congratulations on having two excellent vehicles, and thanks again for sharing your experiences.
Apparently the previous, VSC-less Land Cruiser failed their emergency avoidance test. With VSC and a re-test, it now earns a "fair" instead of a "fail" grade. VSC was enough to make the difference in that test, despite vehicle characteristics that are obviously not optimal for it.
Hopefully the Sequoia will do better, given its fresher design and the fact that it has VSC.
Consumer Reports further states that they commend Toyota for making all its SUV's (except the RAV4) available with VSC, and that BMW and MB are the other automakers who have it too (though they don't note that they had it earlier, especially MB).
You can consider that a plus for VSC.
However, all vehicles, even VSC-equipped ones, have their limits. VSC extends those limits, but taking advantage of that and pushing the vehicle even further is not a great idea. VSC won't take a poor-emergency-handling vehicle like the Land Cruiser and turn it into an X5. VSC won't help in more severe cases when there simply isn't enough tire grip for it to be truly effective.
Nevertheless, VSC definitely raises the odds in your favor. I know there are complaints about the traction control system and cutting power, but for the rare situations where that's an issue, you can just turn it off (which you can do in the Seq but not the Highlander).
The way I think when making my comparison is not "Oh but my MDX has AWD which must be better than the 2WD on the Sequoia". Instead it's "that damn Acura company screwed me out of circa 3K for a feature I don't really want/need. Boy what value I would have got if there had have been a 2WD MDX available."
Is it necessary for a company to produce all it's SUV's with 4WD(AWD). I don't think so. Just look at the vast numbers of SUV's out on the road that are only 2WD and one soon comes to that realization.
From what I can gather, the number of Sequoias to be produced yearly is similar (not vastly different) to the number of MDX's Yet it irks me that Acura force's you to take only AWD vehicles. These are equipped two ways only :- with "Standard" or "Touring" package. Like it or lump it. Personally I much prefer Toyota's method of marketing where one has the choice to order equipment to the level one wants.
For those who are interested in making a Sequoia purchase, I'll just briefly relate my experience. Purchased a Silver Sky Limited 2WD with various factory options amounting to an MSRP of $41,722 from Toyota of the Desert through the internet manager, Dan Dixon for $39,000 +Tax/License/Doc. Fees. I made the purchase just after Christmas at what I thought would be a real slow time for the dealers (i.e. thought I'd get a good price). Most pleasant car purchasing experience I've ever had. Boy the internet is powerful. Sent out many E-mails through Edmunds car buying service to Dealers within a 200 mile radius. Here in SD I visited several dealerships, test drove a vehicle, checked out the equipment and selected a color. However, at the time there was very little stock at any of the dealers I visited or at any within a 50 mile radius or so. Nobody was willing to budge more than $700 from MSRP.
Took no more than 2 hours on the phone making the deal. Which really just amounted to several short negotiating phone calls. Until we finally agreed on a price. A cinch, no high pressure tactics at all. They knew what I wanted and they related the individual cost of the options which I bounced off Edmunds to double check they weren't hood winking me with any dealer installed extras.
To cap it all, the vehicle was delivered to my doorstep (some 140 miles from the dealership) free of charge.
That's what I call service.
To each his own however. Just because I find Toyota's pricing methods a joke does not mean I don't like them. In fact I own a '97 RAV4 Ltd and am seriously considering another one for my teenage drivers (16 & 17 year old boys). I just wish Toyota would cut the crap and simplify their pricing game (and again I emphasize the word "game" because for the most part the bare-bones Toyotas do not exist!).
rajans I'm sorry you hate your MDX now. No one forced you to buy it. This vehicle is so hot now that you will have no trouble selling it and then getting another Toyota.
Dianne
dianne@earthlink.net
One thing that I mentioned was that I felt that the Toyota was better value for money. But what I omitted to say was that Acura is a luxury make. Perhaps one would expect to pay a premium for that status.
In the automotive business, value is often in the eye of the beholder. Because also in this capitalist society of ours, value is too readily equated to an intangible phenomenon called status.
I am confused also about the difference between 4wd and All wheel drive. Is it the same thing?
AC DR CC ST PG CQ CF and MSRPis $33815. Sells like wildfire here! I even have a silver 4wd version of that car available without the CC! It's got DR CC PG CQ AC CF and MSRP is $37015. I think those are the least costly cars I have available out here in CA. How do your regular stock cars come w/o having to mess with their build scheme?
-Di
-Dianne
As to other features, I would note that while there are the obvious differences between vans and SUV's, the third seat in the Sienna is more comfortable and roomy than in the Seq, and, in general, the Sienna is much easier to get in and out of (especially if you have car seats, strollers etc.). But, as you probably can figure, I bought the Seq and drive it every chance I get- much more fun. Both vehicles are excellent.
I thought that those of you out there would be interested in this Toyota Sequoia review at Thecarplace.com.
Enjoy!
Drew
Host
Vans and SUVs message boards
If you can respond to my specific concerns, you can read my previous posts, #792, 827, 857, 879.
Thanks,.....I will be test driving all again today, hopefully.
Drew
Host
Vans and SUVs message boards
Without actually measuring decibels, giving my general impression, they are both pleasantly quiet. I do not find road noise to be a negative with either and would not consider it a factor in decision making. However, even if the Seq was a bit louder, it would have less adverse effect on me, since the Seq sound system is nicer, leading to better quality/ louder music (at least I personally tend to crank it up a bit) reducing the chance of road noise distraction.
BTW- It was bone chillin' outside tonight, the wind was whipping. Those Seq heated seats were toasting my buns in no time (prior to the heater kicking in). For those in cold climates, I recommend them.
Ive spent weeks on the message board reading and posting various experiences and it was worth it.
Just driving the sucker home (jaming with my new 6 CD changer and 10 speakers) I had many a head turn and point. I even had a few ask me to roll down my window so that they could ask me questions! (Isnt it great to be KING/QUEEN of the road!!)
The closest to the Sequoia are the Expedition and the Tahoe, not the Suburban.
Regarding Motor Trend article, it clearly stated that overall the Sequoia was a superior SUV.
Incidentally, the Tahoe had a bit of an advantage as it had the offroad package so not really apples to apples in offroad ability.
Your negativity towards the Sequoia is overriding the facts. There is more to the value of a vehicle than the price. Price is what you pay. Value is what you get. With the Sequoia you get an impressive vehicle that is clearly the category leader.
One other comment about price. If you notice most of the posts here talk about price or availability. Go to the Expedition forum and you'll see most of the posts are about service bulletins, breakdowns and problems.
I am a Sequoia owner. But I did my homework and was very close to getting the expedition. When a Sequoia came to our local dealer and I had a chance to drive and check out there was no comparison and the deal was done.
I bought cheap (false value) with Chevy's a couple of times. Face the facts, Toyotas are better made, have better reliability ratings and higher owner satisfaction. This can be backed up with any Consumer Reports ratings or other publications.
P.S. Are you a Suburban dealer or salesperson. Do you own any of the vehicles discussed here? If you don't you probably should be careful what you say as the real world day to day driving is more valid than you reading brochures and specifications from the internet.
You're so pitifully unaware of the facts. Go to
JD Power and see Toyota listed at #3 behind its sibling Lexus.
The Toyota factories have won multiple awards.
If you're somehow suggesting that GM has better overall quality then Toyota then you're obviously
under some kind of X-file influence. The majority of GM brands wallow with the newbie korean/elbonian wannabe manufacturers.
With the "controversial" (hows that for being diplomatic) dash that Toyota has chosen, along with the high end buyer profile, it appears that you'll have a choice of aftermarket wood kits. I think I've seen prices from 300-500$ (installed?)
cheers
Please advise
rryanjr@cfl.rr.com
For an overview check here:
http://www.managementwisdom.com/managementwisdom/abdrweddem.html
For more detail, check here:
http://www-caes.mit.edu/products/deming/14-points.html
http://www.deming.org/demingprize/winners_jpnmdl.html
http://www.deming.org/index.html
The heating system has no problem heating the vehicle. Im sure the rear system helps with such a large vehicle. The vehicle is wonderful in the snow. The ATRAC and VSC work very effectively and the auto 4wd is seamless.
A couple of things that I would change in a perfect world:
--the heater is noisy and obtrusive
--the engine is noisy upon startup in cold weather but is a gem when warm. Could be related to all the valves and cams? When warm though this is the smoothest and sweetest engine around, with ample power.
--sometimes the vsc kicks in a little more often/quickly than you would prefer. However maybe I would be skidding out if it didn't kick in?
I am also frustrated about fog lamps,but driving lamps are better anyways. Has anyone had any success finding aftermarket lighting?
Regarding comments about noise it is the quietest vehicle I've ever been in. When we first took it for a test drive my wife and I looked at each other and both commented on the incredible quietness. I'm sure that wonderful engine has a big role in this.
Fuel economy is poor but you go in to purchasing a vehicle like this with your eyes wide open! I didn't buy it because it is the most fuel efficient!
Overall the truck has exceeded my expectations. I also get constant comments about how great a truck it is and how great it looks.
Hope this helps
Most stability control systems are on the conservative side. Better to try to catch the skid before it goes out of hand rather than when you pass the point of no return!
With those cold temperatures, perhaps you would like to try switching to Mobil 1 tri-synthetic 0W30 or 5W30? That could help significantly since synthetic oil flows much more freely than mineral (dino) oil in cold conditions. I run Mobil 1 15W50 myself (one of my vehicle manufacturer's approved viscocities - NOT a Sequoia, BTW), which is good for temperatures down to -39 degrees Celcius. Mobil 1 5W30 is good to -50 degrees C. With synthetic oil, you can also lengthen your oil change intervals since the oil will not break down the same way that normal oil does.
FYI, foglamps are only supposed to supplement the low beam headlamps. You may want to try one of Hella's driving lamps for better visibility. Hella's light tunnel facility can help you to decide on which lamp you prefer. Compare the high intensity discharge Xenon driving lamps vs. the halogen driving lamps and you will be blown away by the difference, I know I was. The former variety are more expensive of course.
Good luck!
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
JD Powers is a prestigious award because it is well known and the selection process is understood. As the old saying goes if a person has to be introduced as the "famous so-and-so" they must not be very famous!!
I for one would put very little stock in an award that is so little known and secretive as to be virtually unheard of to the general population.
It's a good thing that Toyota didn't share your point of view as I doubt you would consider buying one had it not been for the Deming Award.
Anyone thinking about a Sequoia should read this, as well as the posts here and other articles.
"...I think Toyota's engineers out smarted themselves" -Jon Thompson
"The weight is bad enough, but the real problem is the traction control system, which when activated feels as though the engine has lost all its power" -Greg Smith
"Generally I'm a fan of Toyota, but somehow things went awry with the traction-control system and the VSC system on the new Sequoia"...."once you get it off-road and demand performance, forget it" -Michael Rudd
"By the end of the test, I was wishing I had brought along some wire cutters: -Craig Perronne refering to the computer traction control systems
They did like the window in the tailgate feature, large and comfortable interior but did not like the "marginal handling" and felt the engine was "adequate".
Enjoy and please dont shoot the messenger
Read the whole article.