Well, it looks like we have gravitated from the towing issue to Steak. Not to beat a dead issue to death but I would go out on a limb and venture to say that the majority of Sequoia owners will never ever tow more than 5,000 lbs. regularly. So, who cares? Now, honey, does Ruth Chris have take out?
Not having much luck getting a response on the other boards, so here goes...bought a ltd. 4 x 2 with Bridgestone tyres. My question is do all Sequoia's come with these tyres, and if any owner has had any luck in getting the dealer to switch to a different brand. I don't feel comfortable given the whole ford explorer saga. Thanks!
I've never heard of a dealer willing to switch tire brands. I didn't try because I've never had any problems with Firestone. I truly believe that they had a batch of bad tires that failed and caused the inferior Ford Explorer to roll. I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask your dealer to switch. Good luck.
All Canadian Sequoias for last year and this year come standard with Dunlop Grandtrek AT21's. They seem perfectly adequate and my wife has had Dunlop's on her Camry for years. Can't comment on whether they are superior to Bridgestone's or not. Food for thought: everyone seems worried about regular Bridgestone's but almost everyone raves about Bridgestone Blizzaks and Bridgestone Dueler DMZ2's. I'm sure Bridgestone's are perfectly fine. If it really bothers you you may want to just invest in new tires. You could sell the others and recoup some of the money.
mine came with the Bridgestone Duellers, and many of us on this forum has them and I have yet to hear of any complaints on them yet. l'll surely recommend that you try the Duellers out and if they still do not meet your needs then switch.
Has anyone else (besides gohabsgo) had any luck finding used Limiteds? I would love to get one but don't want to pay the price of a brand new one. What are the chances of finding used 2001 models and where is the best place to look? I've called all the local Toyota dealers and they have nothing currently available.
Yes indeed, emphasis on "PROUD". It's an incredible feeling driving home from the dealer in your new Sequoia as I did yesterday. Can't believe all the looks you get. Even had two of my neighbors come around and take a look. Got the Canadian '01 Black Lmt with 5k miles on it for 36k and it's everything I expected and thensome. Brought it to my insurance agent for pictures and he went through the entire vehicle since he's insured other Seq and could not find one bit of difference from the US models. Do have the Dunlops as 714cut noted and they ride and look just great. Will keep you all up to date on how I like this vehicle going forward which I'm sure will be positive feedback but again, no vehicle is perfect so you'll get the good and the bad. The only hard part of this entire deal was cutting the check and that wasn't even that bad since I was sooooo excited about the purchase. Amazing how that feeling of buying a new vehicle never goes away (after all, we're all kids deep inside).
baseballmom94: As I noted in a previous post, a dealer here in the Albany, NY area has (3) '01's. Black Lmt with 400 miles, Silver and White Lmt (demo's) with close to 5k miles on it. They are desperate to move the demo's so I'm sure you'll get an incredible deal on them. They advertise a 5.5k discount and will go deeper as they did with me if you're serious. Let me know if you need the contact info for this dealer. Write me directly at Ricky_san@yahoo.com for specifics.
Just got my Winter Dueler DMZ2 snowies on. Will keep you posted. I had an explorer with Firestones, not only did they replace tires with Michelins, but I got a coupon for 55% off price of up to 5 new Bridgestones, so a good deal. Went with Tire rack recommendations of 245/75's. They are a little taller and a little skinnier but look great. Where we live it is cold with lots of snow. This morning -15C or about 3degrees F with snow. Life in the Great white North!
I can't seem to find anyone willing to go lower than $2000 over invoice on a 2002 Sequoia, no matter whether it's the Ltd or SR5. Has anyone been able to get a better deal than this recently? I am a cash buyer ready to purchase this weekend if there are any hungry dealers out there. I'm in Gloucester, but willing to drive a little for the right price. I understand that the dealer needs to make a profit on a truck like this that seems to be in demand, but 5% profit seems a bit high on such an easy sale (no trade in, $10k downpayment). Am I crazy to hope for a better price than this? It's about $3k below MSRP, but MSRP doesn't really seem to mean that much these days.
I am trying to decide between the 2WD or 4WD Sequoia. I do not plan to go offroading whatsoever but will drive to go skiing at Mammoth Mountain (California) about 3-5 times each year during the winter. How does the Sequoia 2WD handle in the snow? Is 4WD really necessary for this type of activity? Please advise...
Also, does the Sequoia have a wood grain option for the dash and doors? Is it aftermarket and if so, who manufactures it? Is it an "adhesive" wood grain or does it replace the existing dash trim? If it is an adhesive application, does it look like cheap?
I would work your way into the sale not talking price at first. Make sure he knows you're ready to buy. Then offer him the $1000 over cost cash on the barrel. Hey, selling a truck is better than sitting on it unless the buyers are lined up.
Not a question for me that 4WD is what I'd get. Its better in the rain (as well as snow where its a must) and its better on the highway on dry roads where the roads are bumpy--better control and handling. We keep ours in 4WD 24x7.
Just a different perspective here: If you had a "hot" product that lots of people want and was selling well, why would you want to go any lower on your price? From my perspective you are getting a good discount from MSRP and the dealer is making a fair profit on a $40k truck. I don't think cash makes a difference here although I don't understand all of the ins and outs of selling cars. The risk they run is that you may find it cheaper and shop elsewhere.
gohabsgo: Now that's a great post (#4069). Sharing the great feeling you having driving home a new Sequoia without have to build your pride at the expense of some other vehicle or driver on the road.
No...I'm not being facetious. Its just good to read a really sincere post.
My Sequoia was hit by a moving van today. Not one of those small u-hauls but a big rig! A co-worker, who was on a smoke break, came rushing in to tell me my SUV was hit. She saw the whole incident. The driver tried to make a turn in our parking lot when the trailer hit a curb and tipped over onto the rear of my car. I am so upset. This is my first SUV and I have only had it for 4 months!
I'm a bit jealous since you beat me to it. I've decided to get the Seq in late spring when I have to tow my boat back up the mountains. Meanwhile, I'll see if my lowly Jeep G Cherokee (the one that often towed 500lb over its' limit) can roll to the 170k mi mark.
36k for a 2001 is a phenomenal price but I found some S. Cal dealers selling the 02's as low as $500 over invoice.
Please ignore the immature hotair x3. Everyone of your posts has been informative. I'm sure I'm not the only one who enjoys them. Tell us if you have any problems after you drive it for some time.
Sorry to hear your misfortune. I hope the damage will not affect the performance of the Seq once it's repaired. It sounds like you have a good witness. She may be helpful in dealing with the insurance.
I know accidents happen. I called the police and the driver took full responsibility. The police officer gave the driver a scolding (and a citation) since he shouldn't be driving a rig that big in a parking lot! I surely hope it can be repaired. It left a nasty gash from one end of the rear to the other and smashed out my brake light. I do have to say that I am surprised the exterior damage didn't look worse. Hopefully, there wasn't much internal damage; although the drive home sounded a little wobbly. I know I'll find out sooner or later.
I guess that's just the market for this car in Mass. I have offered $1000 and $1500 over invoice for a 2002 sequoia, and dealers are willing to walk away from the sale at that price, even with the knowledge that I have a $10k check ready for down payment immediately. I guess they're selling that well.
boslow: When I was in the midst of doing all my dealings with the local dealers, I did have one dealer offer me $500 over invoice on a '02 Lmt (Jade Green and Thunder Gray). On previous posts, I noted an email address you can contact me on if you're interested. I'll give you the salesman and dealers info. Btw, I'm in Albany, NY which is not that far away from Gloucester so the trip would certainly be worthwhile. If you score this SUV, score me some tkts when the Habs visit the Bruins :-)
Are you talking to a fleet manager? Most of them will be willing to take your money. Just wait till after xmas(26th-31st)when no one is buying and they need to sell because it is the end of the month and end of the year. All dealers know that car sales stats have to beat last year stats and your sale may be the one that gets them over.
Is the color of sr5 sky silver body and fender flares / running boards a different shade of silver ? If so, does it look like crap? --- Or do they match?
I was wondering if you've detected an ammonia-like smell in your Seq while climbing steep upgrades or while accelerating abruptly? I've taken my vehicle to the dealer but they could not duplicate nor determine the cause of the horrible smell. Let me know at Cuba213310@aol.com
the color of SR5 sliver body, over fender and running boards are in the exact same color, just like the limited. in fact sliver is the only SR5 that with one tone of color, check the brochure. i personally think it's the safest color of all, (i mean you are not easy to get bored with it) and for people who don't like to wash their car often, it's a good choice. silver is not easy to show dirt like other dark or white color.
While it's true the silver sky is the same in SR5 and Limited (only colour like that), I got my silver sky because I think it looks the sharpest. You know how every car seems to have a colour that "suits it" or seems to look the best? Well the Silver Sky IMHO is that colour.
I got tired of shopping and went in to buy a limited. Internet manager dropped another $200 off the invoice price, and I think they probably would have dropped $400 if I had pushed a bit more. I guess it all depends on who you deal with. The car hasn't even been built yet-- it will be delivered by the end of the month if all goes well. Hopefully everything will come as expected so I don't have to deal with the whole car haggle experience anymore.
Question-- does the Sequoia have locking diffs? If so, how easy is it to lock them?
Congrats to the new owners. Boslaw, your last post explains it. If its not on the lot, they have no incentive to have to sell it that low; $1800 over is a good deal.
a couple of weeks ago my wife took the seq in to the dealer for the 15k service and wheel alignment. i asked to have the wheels aligned to higher specs (caster, camber and toe) than what it currently had due to the vehicle's propensity to "wander" to the right under medium to stong cross winds. unfortunately, no real alignment changes were made (they only made some slight changes to the left and right toe). driving it later i found that the car now vibrates almost at all speeds, with pronounced vibration at speeds >=80mph. since i have had the tires rotated, balanced and aligned during the 15k service only ca. 2 weeks ago, what can the vibration be about ? i feel the vibration more under the gas pedal. my wife commented that the vehicle clearly does not perform as well as before we took it in for regular maintainance, to which i agree... it is just a feeling you get that there is something wrong. i will be taking it back in to the dealership this week, but wanted to find out if anyone here has had similar issues with vibration at all speeds, especially at speeds >80mph. any thoughts will be appreciated. i'll provide an update later on what, if any, fix was performed to correct this.
I am looking at getting a new Sequoia, but the salesperson told my wife that the gas mileage is awful and that during the winter it is significantly less than 10 mpg and that the EPA rating is not correct. Any long term practical experience
Asking a dealership to alter the alignment from the factory specs is asking for trouble. If the factory specs don't do the job for you, you really should take it to an alignment specialist. Most dealers just don't have the skill to deviate from the factory specs without adverse consequences.
A couple of things to check: Have any of the weights fallen off a wheel? That would cause vibration. During the summer we went to visit a friends cabin. To get there was off road and lots of mud. I sprayed the vehicle off and got on the highway and thought a wheel was going to fall off. The problem was dirt on the inside of the wheel. Think about what an impact a little weight has on vibration- think about mud or ice in there. Anyways that worked for me. Alignment won't cause vibration normally while balancing will. If it's not that try looking at the electrical system. One time (different vehicle)car was shuddering, took it in and it was a spark plug wire and wasn't running on all cylinders. I know its a stretch but just some suggestions.
Sounds like your salesman is trying to not sell you the vehicle! It is nearly impossible to predict mileage. It depends on how you drive, where you drive, the load you carry, whether 2wd or 4wd, how long your trips are, etc. And yes, you will get worse economy in winter. Usually colder so cars warm up, often in 4wd, snow or ice will reduce fuel economy and the list goes on. From my 13 months of experience sub 10 mpg would be unlikely on average. It does have excellent highway mileage and I don't think the EPA mileage is that far off.
I'm in the process of buying a 2002 SEQUOIA. I was promised a $400 over invoice cost, but then learned in addition to the invoice (as listed on the internet, et al) there was additional charges for "TDA" (Toyota Dealers Association), which I understand is voluntary on the part of the dealer, typically 2% of the cost of the car, cocts for regional advertising, and passed on to the buyer as a) part of the "invoice" cost and b) a directed charge from Toyota (not exactly true). I was further advised of an additional charge called the "whsl financial reserve" ~$347.00. This charge was ambiguously characterized as an interest charge from Toyota to the dealer (Toyota Customer Service has no knowledge of), and again portrayed as part of the "invoice cost".
MY point, in dealing with two different dealers, one has characterized his offer as $400 over invoice, then tacked on these additional charges, while the second dealer offered a price at $2000 over invoice, which included the additional charges.
My question, How does one determine whether these additional charges are fair costs to be passed on to the buyer??
I cover this one often. The TDA fee is not exactly at the dealer's option. Every dealer I know of, belongs to a dealer association which is responsible for the national advertising AND rebate programs in each region. The money paid to this fund is not used to pay for individual dealer's ads. It is used for general Toyota advertising plus all rebate and incentive programs. For a dealer to opt out of the association, they would not be able to offer any rebates or incentives on any cars or trucks.
The TDA fee is real. It is paid as part of the invoice. Edmunds' invoice page tells you of its existence but does not tell you the exact amount. The fee varies by region and can be as low as $250 or as high as 2.4% of base invoice. When a dealer talks about how much over invoice they will sell it for, they are talking about the actual invoice which does include a TDA fee.
Wholesale financial reserve is already included in the invoice figure given by Edmunds.
I have been doing a lot of research on the Sequoia and what is a good price for the vehicle. Here in the Southern California area the price of the Sequoia ranges from $500 to $2000 over invoice. The TDA fee is okay to pay and you can always try to negotiate it away by reminding them that they will be getting a 3% holdback PROFIT check from sale of the vehicle. Of course this is contigent how long the vehicle has been on the lot.
Toyota's holdback fee is 2% of the base sticker price(MSRP), excluding destination charges and any additional acessories or options. Exceptions: In Georgia, Alabama, Florida, North and South Carolina, holdback is 2% of the total invoice price.
In addition to the holdback, Toyota has a "wholesale financial reserve". This is another 1% of the base MSRP-making the total "hidden profit" on base MSRP 3% of base sticker price.
The $347 they are charging you is part of the profit they will be making from the sale of Seq. The dealer is trying to rip you off by claiming that is a cost when it is profit from the sale.
I hope this info helps and will prevent the dealer from saying that he/she is making no profit from the sale. Remember, they will make 3% from sale and whatever dollar amount on top of that they want over invoice. The dealer that charged you $400 over invoice appears to be a better deal than the dealer asking $2000 over invoice.
Flying a Cuban flag and calling profit a rip off is an interesting juxtaposition.
Beyond that, profit is not the amount the dealer sells a car for over the invoice minus holdback and WFR. Profit takes into account all variable expenses the dealer must pay which include taxes, rents, commissions, salaries, utilities, legal fees, advertising expenses, floor plan interest and a bunch of other stuff consumers are blissfully ignorant of.
Invoice is only useful as a baseline for figuring out if you paid a fair price relative to the market conditions. If market conditions on a particular model dictate a price of $1000 over invoice and a dealer tries to sell it for $2000 over invoice, that is not a good deal. If a dealer lets one go for $400 over invoice in the same market, the consumer has done well. Total cost and profit do not figure into this equation.
What does flying a Cuban flag have to do with my post? What flag are you flying? Monacco? Indonesia? I was born in Cuba and left Cuba as a child because of Communism. And most Cubans in the USA hope to see a Cuba Libre(A Free Cuba). If you want to get into a political discussion this is not the forum.
Now getting back to what this forum is all about and that is to help each other.
To find the dealers "dead cost" is only known by the dealer. The information I posted is from friends and family in the business and from sources on the internet like Automotive news.
Consumers should always try to get the best info they can on the price of the vehicle they want to purchase but if it's a hot selling vehicle than market conditions will dictate price and dealers will be getting whatever the consumer is willing to pay.
I still think (my opinion) that the dealer was trying to rip off dtullar by asking for another $347 on top of invoice and claiming that the whsl financial reserve was a cost when it's part of the dealer holdback(profit). Even though that dealer was not being truthfull(his lips were moving) his deal was still better than the dealer that was charging $2000 over invoice.
Net profit is figured at the end of the month, after a dealer factors in all his expenses. Total gross is before expenses. If a dealer sells at $1000 over "dealer invoice", and has 3% holdback, it's true there is more gross there. But like Cliffy says, it may not necessarily be profit (meaning Net Profit). There is nothing wrong with shopping to get your best deal. Shopping dealers via the internet is a great way to shop. Most dealers who have Internet Sales departments are usually "up front" with pricing and information.
I probably should not have brought up the Cuban thing. Being an ex-patriot, I'm sure you are aware that communists abhor the whole concept of private enterprise and therefore profit. Your post seemed pretty combative on the subject of profit and flying the flag of a communist nation seemed interesting to me. I'll not comment further on it because I now realize the source.
Dealers don't "add on" things to the invoice. If you see a copy of an invoice, you will note that the TDA fee is added by the factory, not the dealer. The WFR issue is a bit odd to me though because that figure is already in the Edmunds figure. If a dealership adds it twice, I'll agree that this is not honest.
Your post actually made one of my points. What the dealership represents as "cost" really isn't relevant. The price relative to the market is what consumers should care about. Invoice is only a reference point to compare prices from different dealerships.
I'm 100% for a free market and just believe that an informed consumer will get a better deal. I agree with you that market conditions will dictate price and the the invoice is a guideline for the consumer. It is something that the consumer can use to compare prices among dealers and have them bid for his/her business. This only works if demand is moderate to low. If there is a high demand for the vehicle you can forget about using invoice to get a good deal and hope you just pay MSRP.
There will be times that market conditions (high demand) for a vehicle will allow a dealer to sell a vehicle for MSRP or more. Then there will be times that a low demand vehicle will be sold at or below invoice.
In regards to the TDA fee, it is a legitimate cost.
Sorry. Your first post on this seemed fairly combative. Your last one is not and I actually agree 100% with what you said. One of the two of us must have been in a bad mood at some point today (or maybe both).
On the wood trim question, check out the Aftermarket board which is archived. Try woodtrim.com for a kit. Yes, they are adhesive and those that contributed to that discussion seemed happy with it. Good luck.
Comments
I don't feel comfortable given the whole ford explorer saga.
Thanks!
Food for thought: everyone seems worried about regular Bridgestone's but almost everyone raves about Bridgestone Blizzaks and Bridgestone Dueler DMZ2's. I'm sure Bridgestone's are perfectly fine. If it really bothers you you may want to just invest in new tires. You could sell the others and recoup some of the money.
Hope this helps
baseballmom94: As I noted in a previous post, a dealer here in the Albany, NY area has (3) '01's. Black Lmt with 400 miles, Silver and White Lmt (demo's) with close to 5k miles on it. They are desperate to move the demo's so I'm sure you'll get an incredible deal on them. They advertise a 5.5k discount and will go deeper as they did with me if you're serious. Let me know if you need the contact info for this dealer. Write me directly at Ricky_san@yahoo.com for specifics.
Your team is doing ok of late as well!
Went with Tire rack recommendations of 245/75's. They are a little taller and a little skinnier but look great.
Where we live it is cold with lots of snow. This morning -15C or about 3degrees F with snow.
Life in the Great white North!
Also, does the Sequoia have a wood grain option for the dash and doors? Is it aftermarket and if so, who manufactures it? Is it an "adhesive" wood grain or does it replace the existing dash trim? If it is an adhesive application, does it look like cheap?
From my perspective you are getting a good discount from MSRP and the dealer is making a fair profit on a $40k truck. I don't think cash makes a difference here although I don't understand all of the ins and outs of selling cars.
The risk they run is that you may find it cheaper and shop elsewhere.
No...I'm not being facetious. Its just good to read a really sincere post.
Thanks for all your comments!
Rob.
36k for a 2001 is a phenomenal price but I found some S. Cal dealers selling the 02's as low as $500 over invoice.
Please ignore the immature hotair x3. Everyone of your posts has been informative. I'm sure I'm not the only one who enjoys them. Tell us if you have any problems after you drive it for some time.
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I've taken my vehicle to the dealer but they could not duplicate nor determine the cause of the horrible smell.
Let me know at Cuba213310@aol.com
Well the Silver Sky IMHO is that colour.
Question-- does the Sequoia have locking diffs? If so, how easy is it to lock them?
Have any of the weights fallen off a wheel? That would cause vibration.
During the summer we went to visit a friends cabin. To get there was off road and lots of mud. I sprayed the vehicle off and got on the highway and thought a wheel was going to fall off.
The problem was dirt on the inside of the wheel. Think about what an impact a little weight has on vibration- think about mud or ice in there. Anyways that worked for me. Alignment won't cause vibration normally while balancing will.
If it's not that try looking at the electrical system. One time (different vehicle)car was shuddering, took it in and it was a spark plug wire and wasn't running on all cylinders. I know its a stretch but just some suggestions.
It is nearly impossible to predict mileage. It depends on how you drive, where you drive, the load you carry, whether 2wd or 4wd, how long your trips are, etc. And yes, you will get worse economy in winter. Usually colder so cars warm up, often in 4wd, snow or ice will reduce fuel economy and the list goes on. From my 13 months of experience sub 10 mpg would be unlikely on average.
It does have excellent highway mileage and I don't think the EPA mileage is that far off.
MY point, in dealing with two different dealers, one has characterized his offer as $400 over invoice, then tacked on these additional charges, while the second dealer offered a price at $2000 over invoice, which included the additional charges.
My question, How does one determine whether these additional charges are fair costs to be passed on to the buyer??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The TDA fee is real. It is paid as part of the invoice. Edmunds' invoice page tells you of its existence but does not tell you the exact amount. The fee varies by region and can be as low as $250 or as high as 2.4% of base invoice. When a dealer talks about how much over invoice they will sell it for, they are talking about the actual invoice which does include a TDA fee.
Wholesale financial reserve is already included in the invoice figure given by Edmunds.
Toyota's holdback fee is 2% of the base sticker price(MSRP), excluding destination charges and any additional acessories or options. Exceptions: In Georgia, Alabama, Florida, North and South Carolina, holdback is 2% of the total invoice price.
In addition to the holdback, Toyota has a "wholesale financial reserve". This is another 1% of the base MSRP-making the total "hidden profit" on base MSRP 3% of base sticker price.
The $347 they are charging you is part of the profit they will be making from the sale of Seq. The dealer is trying to rip you off by claiming that is a cost when it is profit from the sale.
I hope this info helps and will prevent the dealer from saying that he/she is making no profit from the sale. Remember, they will make 3% from sale and whatever dollar amount on top of that they want over invoice. The dealer that charged you $400 over invoice appears to be a better deal than the dealer asking $2000 over invoice.
Beyond that, profit is not the amount the dealer sells a car for over the invoice minus holdback and WFR. Profit takes into account all variable expenses the dealer must pay which include taxes, rents, commissions, salaries, utilities, legal fees, advertising expenses, floor plan interest and a bunch of other stuff consumers are blissfully ignorant of.
Invoice is only useful as a baseline for figuring out if you paid a fair price relative to the market conditions. If market conditions on a particular model dictate a price of $1000 over invoice and a dealer tries to sell it for $2000 over invoice, that is not a good deal. If a dealer lets one go for $400 over invoice in the same market, the consumer has done well. Total cost and profit do not figure into this equation.
Now getting back to what this forum is all about and that is to help each other.
To find the dealers "dead cost" is only known by the dealer. The information I posted is from friends and family in the business and from sources on the internet like Automotive news.
Consumers should always try to get the best info they can on the price of the vehicle they want to purchase but if it's a hot selling vehicle than market conditions will dictate price and dealers will be getting whatever the consumer is willing to pay.
I still think (my opinion) that the dealer was trying to rip off dtullar by asking for another $347 on top of invoice and claiming that the whsl financial reserve was a cost when it's part of the dealer holdback(profit). Even though that dealer was not being truthfull(his lips were moving) his deal was still better than the dealer that was charging $2000 over invoice.
shopping to get your best deal. Shopping dealers via the internet is a great way to shop. Most dealers who have Internet Sales departments are usually "up front" with pricing and information.
Dealers don't "add on" things to the invoice. If you see a copy of an invoice, you will note that the TDA fee is added by the factory, not the dealer. The WFR issue is a bit odd to me though because that figure is already in the Edmunds figure. If a dealership adds it twice, I'll agree that this is not honest.
Your post actually made one of my points. What the dealership represents as "cost" really isn't relevant. The price relative to the market is what consumers should care about. Invoice is only a reference point to compare prices from different dealerships.
There will be times that market conditions (high demand) for a vehicle will allow a dealer to sell a vehicle for MSRP or more. Then there will be times that a low demand vehicle will be sold at or below invoice.
In regards to the TDA fee, it is a legitimate cost.
woodtrim.com for a kit. Yes, they are adhesive and those that contributed to that discussion seemed happy with it. Good luck.