Add pschreck to the list of people who will tell you his Sequoia is the shiniest SUV on the market. My "attack" on cliffy regarding boat landings (oooo - I shouldn't get so NASTY!) has left the Sequoia forum in burning rubble fighting for their leader.
Cunning4 - I have the same problem with the dash rattle on my '01 SR5. Please let me know if there is a reasonable fix as it's pretty irritating given the otherwise excellent fit and finish of the vehicle. Anyone else experienced this issue?
Attached is original entry:
I love my Sequoia SR5. The only problem is that the dash has a slight rattle. It seem to be coming from just above the stereo on the flat part of the dash. If I push on the top of the dash, the rattle stops. Any one else have this problem. It is rather annoying since the rest of the car is so tight and quiet. It is under warranty but I do not feel like leaving the car for a day with the dealer until some other problem arises (if any).
2heeldrive: Not only is your view of GM transmissions sophmoric but you apparently need to learn alittle about your own vehicle. I think my description of the Sequoia's 4wd system was just about on target. How about it cliffy? I think you're recognized as the expert on the Sequoia, would you mind sharing your thoughts on how the Sequoia 4wd system works and if my description is accurate.
I have to agree with one of your remarks "What's the point of comparing GM and Toyota transmissions?" The Toyota transmission is a play toy by comparison to the GMC Professional Grade transmission with 65 years experience. I know...aren't manufacturer's slogans fun?
714cut: no surprise at all about the passion of Toyota fans (being that I own a Toyota, I understand), its just rather entertaining to read how blind some folks are about both their own vehicle as well as the capabilities of other alternatives.
It never ceases to amaze me how others feel a need to denigrate another vehicle in order to feel better about their own. It does generate a healthy chuckle to read some of the "loyalty". In the end, good vehicles stay on the market because they meet the needs and expectations of the people that buy them. Bad vehicles end up on the ash heap of failed designs. All of the vehicles we are comparing are good vehicles that are likely to get better because consumers are willing to pay for them.
714cut: I look forward to the exchange on the towing data you're researching. I have to partially disagree with your view "You have pointed out some pros but AWD is generally regarded as inferior in many ways to 4WD such as no low range, lack of locking full time 4wd etc." I don't think it is at all accurate to suggest that AWD is generally regarded as inferior. I actually had my doubts having driven various traditional 4wd vehicles, however now that I have AWD, I would NEVER consider normal or auto4wd unless I was doing serious rock climbing (which I don't do).
By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by locking 4wd, since AWD provides 4wd all the time in all conditions unlike auto4wd which does not.
Regarding the Sequoia limited versus a fully loaded Yukon XL, I don't think there is any comparison from a price to value ratio or performance to price comparison. You get more bang for your buck in the loaded Yukon XL than the Sequoia. More power, more tow capacity, more space, more features, more luxury all for less money. A loaded Yukon XL is a hands down favorite over the Sequoia Lmtd which is reflected in the sales data.
You're definitely off-base in your following remark "I think your other numbers are off on Denali. As noted earlier a Denali XL in Canada is $7000 more than a Sequoia Limited." Just go to Edmunds pricing, take each of the 5 vehicles I compared (Yukon, Yukon XL, Sequoia Limited, Denali and Denali XL) and compare the Edmunds TMV pricing. Check it out for yourself instead of believing me.
You'll find a fully loaded Yukon for $40.5K, A loaded Yukon XL with every bell and whistle for $41K, a loaded Sequoia Limited goes for $42K, a Denali is $43K and the Denali XL is $44.5K. And keep in mind there are GMC Loyalty rebates of $1000 and various other discounts that most people qualify for like the GM Master Card which can reduce the final price by many thousands of $. And finally GM offers 0% financing which when added up clearly makes the GM F/S SUVS a better value for a better vehicle.
What the heck is the matter with you? In post 4195 you attack me for liking the Sequoia and bashing GM? I would challenge you to back that one up. My only post to you was to inform you of situations where low gear range is important for boat towing. I have no idea where you come off attacking me like that.
Where is the attack? You people are scaring me. It was a joke about boat ramps and shiny Toyotas. I never once mentioned you bashed the Sequoia, or that "other" vehicle. My apologies.
I was referring to post #4195 where you lumped me into a group of GM bashers. I have never once bashed the competition. I believe each response I made has been truthful and even directly answered one of your questions. You chose a passive/aggressive response and I don't appreciate it.
Your unending, ignorant and emotional rants clearly demonstrate an irrational loyalty to GM.
You bought your Denali using a GM supplier discount. You have personally gained from some relationship with GM and so you cannot be objective and have no credibility here.
As stated earlier, I've owned various 4wd vehicles and have been a boat owner for about 18 years. I have towed many, many weekends during each of those 18 years and not once, not a single time, did I use low 4wd to pull a boat trailer up a slippery ramp.
Yes, I did engage 4wd occasionally, but most of the time with a limited slip rear diff there wasn't even a need for 4wd (although it was comforting to know I had it, if the trailer wheel got stuck in a prop wash foxhole). With the Denali XL AWD it is a case of no muss, no fuss the trailer just pops out of the water.
My boat weighs about 5500-6000 pounds and therefore I think is pretty representative of most boat experiences. I have also used many ramps from those on the Hudson, Toms River at the Jersey shore, Atlantic City, Cape may, The delaware River and various lakes in Pa.
It's a discusion forum Cliffy, get over it. If I lumped you in to any "group" I am sorry. You act like I just ruined your life.
A while back you told me that the answer to an engine governing problem on acceleration is to "Leave it in 4WD" and like it or not it was "the answer" to the properly working, but poorly executed, 2WD system. Wrong-o, the answer would be an off button, an override, a better design, a safer design. 4WD makes the problem go away (and thanks for that patch) but it doesn't fix the problem. That in my opinion (again, opinion) is an example of "Toyota is the best - you are wrong for thinking it could be better. " That was my #4195 reference.
Again, you have been helpful, but I am not going to kiss your feet in apology for saying some tongue-in-cheek words about you, or anyone else.
I wish I could have just stuck to my promise about no more postings, but dang it's so difficult. I still have to get back to pschreck about how much he hurt my feelings.
Ummm... well OK. Since I wasn't even part of the discussion that caused your outburst, I was just curious as to why you decided to jump on me. I now see that it was because of your "TRAC Off button envy". You didn't like my answer to an old issue so you felt justified into dragging me into this current fray over this whole GM versus Sequoia thing. Now I understand... I think.
If you ever want to use the low gear range for pulling a boat from the water, try the Aqualand Marina at the Morgantown Power plant in Maryland. Make sure you go at low tide on a rainy day. After you drop both wheels of your tandem axle trailer off the end of the ramp, you'll be thanking engineers across the planet for the advent of a low gear range.
2heeldrive: Actually, you appear to be the only one ranting. I have provided hard facts on weights, sales data, turning radius, price, tow capacity, HP, torque, physical dimensions and personal experience. Without ranting.
Just because the data doesn't support your irrational view that the GM is a lousy vehicle (which BTW has been nothing more than your opinion since you provide no data to support your views against the GM products) and that all consumers would be so much better in a Sequoia.
I, OTOH believe the Sequoia is a solid product that may suit the needs of many folks just fine. I also believe the latest generation F/S SUVs from GM have been significantly improved and based on sales and growth, many other consumers do as well.
GM has its issues and the Denali is certainly not perfect. I am disappointed with its second row leg room. I wish it had a Nav system like the Lexus. I also wish it had 4wd low, although I am not sure why other than its a nice insurance policy. I wish the rear bumper was better integrated into the body design instead of just tacked on, although I understand thats what provides a higher speed protection for this bumper design. I hate the placement of its parking brake.
Overall the Denali is a well-designed vehicle that meets my needs very well and the quality has been exceptional in the year I have owned it. I have no personal relationship w/ GM other than my company happens to have GM as a customer for some portion of its employee health insurance coverage of which I have no involvement and don't even know what they buy from us.
BTW, if I recall how the Weakest Link show works, its the person leaving the game that is identified as the weakest link. Given that you made the decision to no longer respond doesn't that mean you're the weakest link?
Okay Cliffy, kiss-kiss, we made up. Now stop telling all of your friends to hate me.
In Toyota's defense, they are sending the regional technical rep (or some similar title) to drive our Toyota this Tuesday. He is going to tell me if our Toyota is indeed "normal" or if perhaps the grinding of the VSC is a little more out of control than most. We have been very happy with the performance since the switch to 4WD all the time was made as suggested by the Minnesota poster (and you too Cliffy) a while back.
Another thing I forgot to mention that I do like about the Toyota is the full sized spare on a MATCHING ALUMINUM rim. Nice touch. Too bad we had to find this out because we had a defective rim that leaked air since the day we bought the vehicle (one of our Toyota warranty stops). Seems the rim was cast with a hole in it that leaked air. Toyota replaced the valves about 3 times before figuring that one out.
Tidester--please do not stop the kids from bickering. I am trying to find out if I could stand to retire and watch soap operas. This one would have to be set in a political venue as only politicians can tweak "data" as much as I see here. (Data includes the stated and not stated opinions.)
I am having fun and it is an indication that these folks do live a good life if they get so concerned over such trivial issues.
My mom always said, "If that's your biggest problem, you are well off."
I have 3000 miles on my 2001 Limited and since I bought it, always hears some low noise clicking/clanking noise after driving and stopping the engine. It sounds like its' coming from under the chassis. This goes for about 3 minutes and just quiets down. Is this normal? The dealer said, it's the engine still adjusting and this will go away after sometime? Any comments and suggestions are appreciated. BTW-It's really a great SUV
I've heard of the annoying clicking/clanking noise problems Toyota has had with the Sequoia. Is this just on the 2001 models or has Toyota fixed the problem on the 2002 model?
Sounds like (no pun intended) hot exhaust parts cooling off. My Sequoia did the same thing. Most new vehicles will make cooling off noises for a while. It will gradually quiet down.
Maybe this will help you decide on a Yukon or Seqoia. Discovered this over on the Edmunds GMC Yukon Denali Forum:
Post 990 Dated 12/13/01
"Brought my Denali back to the dealership with a printout of the information you provided and all of a sudden the flood gates (of honesty) opened up! The service manager fessed up to knowing about this problem. It turns out that there are quite a few problems around the country with the 4L65 HD transmission locking up (in other words, ours are not isolated cases!). They promised to have a "fix" in the near future, though I am a little skeptical after their less-than-honest ignorance of the problem on three days ago. I'll keep everyone posted! "
and from post: 979:
"I've got to agree with you about the quality control at the General. I love 'em but wish they would get their act together to compete with the Japanese in this area. Love the horsepower but wish the engine was as smooth as the Sequoia's. Thanks again larry!
I don't get the relevance of a link about the Sienna on a Toyota Sequoia forum. I'm sure we all could find links about problems for just about any vehicle out there.
2heeldrive: Does one brake problem or rotten egg smell on the Sequoia forum make a trend or indicate a design problem? The fact that one guy experiences a problem which can't be duplicated by the dealer does not automatically mean there is an issue. Most folks on the Denali forum have expressed that they have not experienced the transmission lock-up problem in the post you selected.
However I would encourage anyone comparing the Sequoia to the Denali to spend time at both forums, test drive both vehicles and do their homework. Most folks after doing their homework will go for the Denali vs a limited Sequoia as indicated by the sales.
For those that may feel a need to continue the slam on GM maybe the following info might be of interest:
Just to make a point that regardless of what issues may be brought up, the Domestics are still sales leaders.
Official GM Press Release-12/03/01
GM Truck Sales Highlights
GM increased its industry truck leadership with 223,165 sales in November (up 37 percent), putting GM on pace to have its best truck sales year in history. For November, GM's industry-leading truck lineup was led once again by midsize utilities, full-size utilities and full-size pickups, which all maintained their strong sales pace. Sport utility vehicle (SUV) sales for the month (93,486) were exceptional giving GM an all-time industry calendar year record. GM's full-size utilities (46,757 units - up 36 percent over last year) dominated the industry once again in November led by the Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban, GMC Yukon, Yukon XL as well as the all-new Cadillac Escalade.
GM's all-new midsize SUVs, the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Oldsmobile Bravada and Buick Rendezvous continued their sales momentum, contributing to GM leading the industry in midsize utility sales for the second consecutive month. GM also expanded the gap in its leadership in full-size pickups in November (86,929 units sold - up 41 percent over last year) and is on pace for its best full-size pickup sales year since 1978.
I am unconvinced that the Sequoia and Yukon XL are in the same vehicle class. People with large families or large cargo needs will almost always pick a Yukon XL. People without that need, like me, will consider smaller versions like the Sequoia. I think these days peoples' mindset is to get a reasonably sized vehicle-that is the smallest one that will suit their needs. For some only the largest will do.
As for price, I am comparing web site to web site prices. Who knows how and when GM will be offering 0% financing or rebates? Similarly, Toyota may decide to do something to heat up the competition. Or as supply catches up with demand Toyota may be willing to deal more. Comparing web site to web site eliminates variables that can change and is more of a fair comparison. And that comparison say a Yukon Denali XL is $7000 more than a Sequoia Limited. In fact, I have an SR5 package "B". The difference between my vehicle and your Yukon Denali XL is approximately $15000.
Regarding 4wd vs. AWD, I was not stating one was better than the other. Obviously that depends on needs. I was simply saying that there are pros and cons to both. You pointed out some advantages, I pointed out some downsides. For example I think you'd agree if you were taking your vehicle off road or to a remote cabin, you would probably choose a vehicle with selectable levels of 4wd. Thus that would be a con for your Yukon.
I've read somewhere that many 01 Seq owners complain about this problem. Some says that the problem is the VSC being too sensitive. It kicks in during minor slips or hard acceleration causing an apparent 2 to 3 seconds of delay response. Supposedly, a bulletin in the works and the 01 VSC chip is to be replaced with the 02 chip, which is less sensitive.
Have any 02 Seq owners experienced this 'no power problem when in 2WD mode?
Hello all, Last month I bought my wife a 2002 Sequoia. Since we've had it we have been very happy with it, with one exception. The other day I was driving down the road and had our dog in the back. I decided to roll the right rear window down to see how she liked the air. At the time I was doing about 35 MPH and there was no problem. As soon as I hit 46 MPH this noise started to build up inside the vehicle to a point it was getting painful. I had to roll up the window to stop it. After the ringing in my ears stopped I checked to see if it would do it again. Each time I hit 46 MPH it started and continued all the way down to around 30 MPH. It doesn't matter which rear window is down. Both do it. Not as bad if both are down though. I took the Sequoia back to the dealership and drove the service writer, salesman, and service manager around to show them. They said they couldn't believe it and the service writer almost got sick from it. As a note, they installed the air defectors on my windows with no effect. My question is has anyone else heard of this and if not could you try it in your own vehicle? I would like to know. This is our 5th Toyota and the most expensive vehicle we've ever bought and I'm amazed that such a problem exists. Any replies would be appreciated.
I'm really sorry to hear that you have a problem with your Toyota. This problem was posted many months ago in reference a 2001 Limited. When I test drove a $46000 limited last week I opened the right rear window and got the same noise between 45 and 50 Mph. Its called a resonance frequency response. Like blowing over a hole on a piccolo.
You get a tone. You instead get a terrible noise.
I don't know in which state you live in but I would check to see if they have a lemon law like they do in NJ. In other words if the dealer can't fix the problem in 3 or 4 tries you can get your money back.
Goodguy2 is correct about the cause but there is no chance of getting a lemon law ruling on this. It is not a defect. Any time you have a fairly air tight cabin and open one window, you can get this. It has to do with harmonics. To correct this issue, try cracking other windows in the vehicle. Lowering the back tailgate window about an inch will normally do the trick.
I agree with cliffy on this. I get the same noise when I open my moonroof. I just crack my tailgate window a little and the problem is solved. It may not be the perfect solution but at least you can lower the tailgate glass to solve it.
The harmonic resonance you are experiencing is not a defect problem and not unique to the Sequoia or other vehicles. The solution has been mentioned. It is unpleasant but fairly normal. I'm not saying it happens in all vehicles, but certainly in many.
If you are referring to 2wheeldrives post about the problems with the 4l65 HD transmission, the GM service guys are aware of it but I guess you are not convinced that there is a problem. That problem has cropped up more than once over at your sacred Denali forum. But I guess its better we forget about those events. I think the poster that 2wheeldrive has brought here sums up what many of us here know and what many G.M. owners feel and that is what was most important about that Denali owners own words: He states " Ive got to agree with you about the quality control at G.M. I love em but wish they would get their act together and compete with the Japanese in this area. I suppose you will dismiss this unhappy Denali owners view of the quality at G.M I think that post pretty well sums up what we Sequoia owners believe about the quality issues.
Just thought I'd keep you up to date on the repair of my Sequoia. For those of you who don't know, the trailer of an eighteen wheeler moving van (semi) hit my parked SUV when it jumped a curb. I was referred to a local dealership by Southeast Toyota Distributors. They touted this dealer as #1 in service and body work. The dealer said that they were the only certified Toyota collision repair experts in town. I was promised that my car would be "just like brand new." I should have been forewarned when I had to get separate approval from the van line to do a frame alignment. I was concerned that since a semi hit my car that the frame may have been damaged. But, the dealer said that due to the type of impact, this alignment check was not warranted and that I would need a separate approval if I wanted it done. I told the dealer that he needed to make sure that the structural integrity of the rear was not compromised since I drive around in my SUV with my children. I was promised that everything would be taken care of. Once again, it would be "just like brand new" and that my car would be "like it was before the accident." Well, the dealer informed me on Friday that my Sequoia was ready; however, the bill was slightly over the estimate. He wanted me to pay the difference so I could take my car home and just have the van line reimburse me directly. The repair shop closed before I was able to respond (and is closed for the weekend). However, I decided to take a look at my car on my way to a family gathering today. Needless to say, I am PISSED. The passenger side brake light has a chip with scrapes above the light and a long scratch below the light. How can the dealer tell me this car is ready???? My husband says the tailgate is not set properly and the wiper arm rest is loose. These deficiencies were noted on a quick inspection. What will a thorough inspection find, I wonder? I have already left the body shop person a message on his voice mail telling him of my dissatisfaction. I also called the van line and left the risk management associate a message as well. I cannot believe the sloppy work from this dealer...I thought Toyota certified accounted for something????
I remember a string about snow tires and am having trouble finding it. I'd like to find out what snow tires are good for the Seq. HAve a 4x4 in Littleton, CO and got dumped on tonight. The car had trouble stopping (although I think the added weight was a major factor. PLease help, need tires ASAP.
I live in a severe Northern climate. It has snowed every day this week. IMHO the only tires to get are the Bridgestone Dueler DMZ2 tires. They are a heavier duty version of passenger car Blizzaks. They really are outstanding and will make a huge difference over stock tires (I had the Dunlops). They do not make them in the stock Sequoia size so you go with 245/75 R16's. This results in a slightly narrower and taller tire, with the net result being minimal impact on the speedometer- in other words almost the same as stock tires. More info at Tire Rack website. They recommend this size and so did my local tire dealer. Narrow is better in heavy snow. I also think the taller tire looks a little better- it makes the wheels look bigger although it is a very subtle difference. There are other choices. Michelin make an Arctic Alpin in exact size but the tire is not rated as high. The Bridgestones are very soft and only the top 55%(I think) is the actual tread good for ice, so it is critical to remove them as soon as possible in spring and put them on late as possible. Depending on mileage should get 3-4 seasons out of them. They really are cheap insurance and what price for family safety? Go for it.
714cut: That Sequoia weighs more, costs more and has the same turning radius as a Yukon XL, therefore it would appear you have bought more vehicle in the Sequoia than you actually need. If you can get more space with the same fuel economy, less weight, more hp & torque with greater tow capacity and payload capacity, it would appear you are buying more vehicle than you need with the Sequoia. The Yukon XL with its few more inches in length would appear to be a "more reasonably sized" vehicle as it it lighter, equally fule efficient with alot more power and the same turning radius as the Sequoia.
Instead of arguing with me on pricing why not simply check it out on Edmunds. You'll quickly find that the Denali is about $1000 more than a loaded Sequoia Limited (not the $7000 you are attempting to mislead readers with) and about $2500 more for a Denali XL. I would say thats a bargain when considering the additional luxury features, power and AWD you get with the Denali's.
I would agree that 4wd is preferable to AWD for serious off-roading although I do not consider a backroad trip to a cabin serious off-roading. BTW, were you intending to do some serious off-roading with that brand new shiney Sequoia?
You are the only one I know of that comapares these to vehicles. They are more different than your distorted viewpoint. Since when is 15.4 inches longer in length considered a few inches. That is a distorted truth. Fact-Yukon XL awd Dinali-219.3" in length and 5,820 lbs./ Sequoia Ltd.4wd- 203.9"-5,295 lbs. With over 15 inches longer and 525 lbs. heavier you are the only one that likes to compare these two side by side.Does trying to make these two vehicle comparisons make you feel better about your purchase. That 15.4 inches by any stretch of the imagination IS NOT mearly a couple of inches as you claim. The smaller Yukon is much closer in size and weight that it compares more to the Sequoia than does the Yukon XL. Just be happy with your Dinali XL purchase. The fact that you purchased the extended warranty may come in handy with that new and unproven AWD with and of course the transmission that has a few concerned as well with its slipping etc. That would make me comfortable too when towing 5000 to 6000 lbs. One of your own fellow Dinali owners quoted this in the Yukon forum. " If Toyota would build a Suburban/XL sized vehicle he would buy one. (Larry91)April 2001. He apparently doesn't think the two vehicles are closer in size etc. like you do.
Sequoia- $43,235 msrp $38,321 invoice $40,278 tmv Yukon Din.$47,355 msrp $41,527 invoice $42,572 tmv Yukon Din XL-$48,890 msrp $42,874 inv.$43,898 tmv Lets let the all the folks here decide which Yukon is closer in size, weight and price to the Sequoia Ltd 4wd and then be done with that issue. Sequoia-203.9" length, Weight-5295 lbs Yukon Din-198.9" length,Weight-5609 lbs. YukonDinXL-219.3" length, Weight 5820 lbs. Heatwave, these are the facts as Edmunds see it.They are the facts as most everyone else sees it. Tell me how 219.3" in length(Din XL is closer to 203.9" in length(Seq.) than 198.9"in length Yuk Din. Also, how is 5820 lbs.(Yuk Din XL) closer to 5295 lbs.(Seq) than 5609 lbs. (Yuk Din)??????? And by the way, you post so much here about the Yukon Dinali XL that I am beginning to think that that the banter on the General Motors board is boring you so you need to post here so you can expand your GM following. Rememeber this if anything, many of us have had and still own G.M. vehicles as well. Many have had there fill of GM quality and their products.
Since when does comparing manufacturers web site to manufacturers website constitute distorting facts? The fact that you don't like the numbers doesn't mean they are distorted or incorrect. Please check them out for yourself. Oh, and don't forget since I am only dealing with facts and with what I know, all my prices shown are in Canadian dollars. The above post would seem to back my findings (when converted to Canadian dollars).
Wow, sure looks like you are twisting the facts based on recent postings.
Surely someone as fact based as yourself can see this.
The physical size of a vehicle doesn't have all that much to do with weight, turning radius or cost. The facts are that your monster is substantially physically larger than mine. That means it won't fit in some garages, is harder to parallel park and to manouver in general. How can you argue against that?
I bought exactly the vehicle I needed. Your monster was too big. It was bigger than I needed. Why can't you understand that?
I could throw the argument back to you. Why do you have such a large vehicle? Do you have a large family? Do you need that much storage space? Sounds to me like you're the one that bought more vehicle than you needed.
Hey thanks for using my point and making it sound like yours. I'm the one that said most of us probably won't use our vehicles for serious off-road. I guess back road to a cabin depends on where you live. Where we live some would definitely be considered serious off roading.
The advantage of 4wd in the Sequoia is just as significant as some of the advantages in your monster.
I wonder why they didn't put 4wd in your monster? Too bad.
Although some tire dealers recommend narrower tires because they push less snow, there are really very few times in the winter when the conditions are fresh snow. I live in Eastern Ontario and get our share of ice, frezing rain, snow, rain etc throughout the winter. Throughout most of the winter, the road conditions are usually packed snow, ice (particularly this time of year) or bare if the plows have done their job. Given that the majority of the time is spent driving in these conditions, it is much preferable to maximize your contact area with the road surface. For this reason, if you live in an area where winter road conditions are mostly dry, ice or hard packed snow, you are better off to stick to the oem size 265/70 16 since a 247/75 16 tire will have approximately 10 percent less contact area. Maximizing contact area is simply following the laws of physics.
You can get a Micheline 4x4 Alpin in the 265/70 size (at least in Canada) and Toyo makes a great winter tire called the observe which is also available in that size. The Toyo's are very quiet and excellent on ice. I prefer them to the Blizzaks (have had both).
Whoa! I still believe that GM turns out crap. Don't get me wrong on that point. And I understand that these guys are here because Viagra is wasted on them. But I wasn't trying to make them cry or anything. I'm just getting over the intestinal flu from hell and was a little misguided. After passing about a gallon of liquid from my rectum I thought I saw God. That can be an enlightening experience. I figured I better try to make ammends before I started passing kidney stones or worse.
fanman8: Let's try and keep the facts accurate. The comparisons were between the Yukon, the Yukon XL and the Sequoia Limited. When comparing these three the Sequoia Limited is the only overweight, underpowered, overpriced vehicle of the three. The Sequoia Limited with all options has an Edmunds TMV of $42K (and I would bet there is not a soul out there that paid anywhere near $42K and in fact paid substantially more).
The Sequoia Limited has less HP and weighs more than either the Yukon XL or the Yukon. It can only handle 6200lbs which is 2500lbs less than a Yukon XL and 2000lbs less than a Yukon. The Sequoia has a foot shorter wheelbase than the Yukon XL and yet its turning radius is the same as the Yukon XL and 4 ft wider than a Yukon which doesn't say much for its steering and front drivetrain design.
The Sequoia has a lower payload than both the Highlander and Sienna minivan and for that "priviledge" Toyota charges you twice as much for the Sequoia.
There is no comparison between the performance luxury and capabilites of a Denali compared with a Sequoia. A simple testdrive will prove the superiority of the Denali to anyone that goes out and drives a Sequoia Limited and than drives a Denali (or XL), get your best price from the dealer and you make the decision.
It would appear supporters of the Sequoia are embarrassed by the facts and challenged by the realities I've posted that can very easily be looked up here at Edmunds.
You are so obsessed with facts! Did it ever occur to you that people may prefer many things about the Sequoia? It's not always about specs. Ever notice in car magazines how they do a comparison and the 8 cars have similar specs yet one or two are superior cars-maybe they have less horsepower or torque! There are a lot of intangibles in there-the "feel" of a vehicle. I drove all of the other vehicles including Yukon XL. Too big and I liked the feel of the Sequoia. You could have two engines the same horsepower and torque, yet one could be much smoother, technologically advanced and preferable to people. Yet on facts they could be the same specifications. You need to realize that most of us here see your monster as a different vehicle, and obviously we prefer our Sequoias or else we would have bought a Yukon wouldn't we.
Using your analogy of comparison, why didn't you get a Lexus instead of an Avalon? Similar weight, horsepower, turning radius and only a couple of thousand dollars more. Or step up to something a little bigger? Oh, you didn't need something bigger? Gee, that's what happened when I bought my Sequoia!
Comments
Hey, check out this guy's driveway - looks like he owns a Sequoia AND a Yukon. http://www.three-lakes.com/fsbo.html
My Yukon could beat up my Sequoia (if I owned one).
Engine burns up because of poor engineering and not covered by Toyota great warranty. $5000 to replace.
I hear Toyota is now considering offering free fire extinguishers with each vehicle.
Attached is original entry:
I love my Sequoia SR5. The only problem is that the dash has a slight rattle. It seem to be coming from just above the stereo on the flat part of the dash. If I push on the top of the dash, the rattle stops. Any one else have this problem. It is rather annoying since the rest of the car is so tight and quiet. It is under warranty but I do not feel like leaving the car for a day with the dealer until some other problem arises (if any).
I have to agree with one of your remarks "What's the point of comparing GM and Toyota transmissions?" The Toyota transmission is a play toy by comparison to the GMC Professional Grade transmission with 65 years experience. I know...aren't manufacturer's slogans fun?
714cut: no surprise at all about the passion of Toyota fans (being that I own a Toyota, I understand), its just rather entertaining to read how blind some folks are about both their own vehicle as well as the capabilities of other alternatives.
It never ceases to amaze me how others feel a need to denigrate another vehicle in order to feel better about their own. It does generate a healthy chuckle to read some of the "loyalty". In the end, good vehicles stay on the market because they meet the needs and expectations of the people that buy them. Bad vehicles end up on the ash heap of failed designs. All of the vehicles we are comparing are good vehicles that are likely to get better because consumers are willing to pay for them.
714cut: I look forward to the exchange on the towing data you're researching. I have to partially disagree with your view "You have pointed out some pros but AWD is generally regarded as inferior in many ways to 4WD such as no low range, lack of locking full time 4wd etc." I don't think it is at all accurate to suggest that AWD is generally regarded as inferior. I actually had my doubts having driven various traditional 4wd vehicles, however now that I have AWD, I would NEVER consider normal or auto4wd unless I was doing serious rock climbing (which I don't do).
By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by locking 4wd, since AWD provides 4wd all the time in all conditions unlike auto4wd which does not.
Regarding the Sequoia limited versus a fully loaded Yukon XL, I don't think there is any comparison from a price to value ratio or performance to price comparison. You get more bang for your buck in the loaded Yukon XL than the Sequoia. More power, more tow capacity, more space, more features, more luxury all for less money. A loaded Yukon XL is a hands down favorite over the Sequoia Lmtd which is reflected in the sales data.
You're definitely off-base in your following remark "I think your other numbers are off on Denali. As noted earlier a Denali XL in Canada is $7000 more than a Sequoia Limited." Just go to Edmunds pricing, take each of the 5 vehicles I compared (Yukon, Yukon XL, Sequoia Limited, Denali and Denali XL) and compare the Edmunds TMV pricing. Check it out for yourself instead of believing me.
You'll find a fully loaded Yukon for $40.5K, A loaded Yukon XL with every bell and whistle for $41K, a loaded Sequoia Limited goes for $42K, a Denali is $43K and the Denali XL is $44.5K. And keep in mind there are GMC Loyalty rebates of $1000 and various other discounts that most people qualify for like the GM Master Card which can reduce the final price by many thousands of $. And finally GM offers 0% financing which when added up clearly makes the GM F/S SUVS a better value for a better vehicle.
You bought your Denali using a GM supplier discount. You have personally gained from some relationship with GM and so you cannot be objective and have no credibility here.
That makes you a GM shill.
I will no longer respond to your boring ranting.
You ARE The Weakest Link, GOOD BYE!
Yes, I did engage 4wd occasionally, but most of the time with a limited slip rear diff there wasn't even a need for 4wd (although it was comforting to know I had it, if the trailer wheel got stuck in a prop wash foxhole). With the Denali XL AWD it is a case of no muss, no fuss the trailer just pops out of the water.
My boat weighs about 5500-6000 pounds and therefore I think is pretty representative of most boat experiences. I have also used many ramps from those on the Hudson, Toms River at the Jersey shore, Atlantic City, Cape may, The delaware River and various lakes in Pa.
A while back you told me that the answer to an engine governing problem on acceleration is to "Leave it in 4WD" and like it or not it was "the answer" to the properly working, but poorly executed, 2WD system. Wrong-o, the answer would be an off button, an override, a better design, a safer design. 4WD makes the problem go away (and thanks for that patch) but it doesn't fix the problem. That in my opinion (again, opinion) is an example of "Toyota is the best - you are wrong for thinking it could be better. " That was my #4195 reference.
Again, you have been helpful, but I am not going to kiss your feet in apology for saying some tongue-in-cheek words about you, or anyone else.
I wish I could have just stuck to my promise about no more postings, but dang it's so difficult. I still have to get back to pschreck about how much he hurt my feelings.
Just because the data doesn't support your irrational view that the GM is a lousy vehicle (which BTW has been nothing more than your opinion since you provide no data to support your views against the GM products) and that all consumers would be so much better in a Sequoia.
I, OTOH believe the Sequoia is a solid product that may suit the needs of many folks just fine. I also believe the latest generation F/S SUVs from GM have been significantly improved and based on sales and growth, many other consumers do as well.
GM has its issues and the Denali is certainly not perfect. I am disappointed with its second row leg room. I wish it had a Nav system like the Lexus. I also wish it had 4wd low, although I am not sure why other than its a nice insurance policy. I wish the rear bumper was better integrated into the body design instead of just tacked on, although I understand thats what provides a higher speed protection for this bumper design. I hate the placement of its parking brake.
Overall the Denali is a well-designed vehicle that meets my needs very well and the quality has been exceptional in the year I have owned it. I have no personal relationship w/ GM other than my company happens to have GM as a customer for some portion of its employee health insurance coverage of which I have no involvement and don't even know what they buy from us.
BTW, if I recall how the Weakest Link show works, its the person leaving the game that is identified as the weakest link. Given that you made the decision to no longer respond doesn't that mean you're the weakest link?
In Toyota's defense, they are sending the regional technical rep (or some similar title) to drive our Toyota this Tuesday. He is going to tell me if our Toyota is indeed "normal" or if perhaps the grinding of the VSC is a little more out of control than most. We have been very happy with the performance since the switch to 4WD all the time was made as suggested by the Minnesota poster (and you too Cliffy) a while back.
Another thing I forgot to mention that I do like about the Toyota is the full sized spare on a MATCHING ALUMINUM rim. Nice touch. Too bad we had to find this out because we had a defective rim that leaked air since the day we bought the vehicle (one of our Toyota warranty stops). Seems the rim was cast with a hole in it that leaked air. Toyota replaced the valves about 3 times before figuring that one out.
Thanks.
-tidester
Host
SUVs
I am having fun and it is an indication that these folks do live a good life if they get so concerned over such trivial issues.
My mom always said, "If that's your biggest problem, you are well off."
Post 990 Dated 12/13/01
"Brought my Denali back to the dealership with a printout of the information you provided and all of a sudden the flood gates (of honesty) opened up! The service manager fessed up to knowing about this problem. It turns out that there are quite a few problems around the country with the 4L65 HD transmission locking up (in other words, ours are not isolated cases!). They promised to have a "fix" in the near future, though I am a little skeptical after their less-than-honest ignorance of the problem on three days ago. I'll keep everyone posted! "
and from post: 979:
"I've got to agree with you about the quality control at the General. I love 'em but wish they would get their act together to compete with the Japanese in this area. Love the horsepower but wish the engine was as smooth as the Sequoia's. Thanks again larry!
Hope it helps!
However I would encourage anyone comparing the Sequoia to the Denali to spend time at both forums, test drive both vehicles and do their homework. Most folks after doing their homework will go for the Denali vs a limited Sequoia as indicated by the sales.
Just to make a point that regardless of what issues may be brought up, the Domestics are still sales leaders.
Official GM Press Release-12/03/01
GM Truck Sales Highlights
GM increased its industry truck leadership with 223,165 sales in November (up 37 percent), putting GM on pace to have its best truck sales year in history. For November, GM's industry-leading truck lineup was led once again by midsize utilities, full-size utilities and full-size pickups, which all maintained their strong sales pace. Sport utility vehicle (SUV) sales for the month (93,486) were exceptional giving GM an all-time industry calendar year record. GM's full-size utilities (46,757 units - up 36 percent over last year) dominated the industry once again in November led by the Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban, GMC Yukon, Yukon XL as well as the all-new Cadillac Escalade.
GM's all-new midsize SUVs, the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Oldsmobile Bravada and Buick Rendezvous continued their sales momentum, contributing to GM leading the industry in midsize utility sales for the second consecutive month. GM also expanded the gap in its leadership in full-size pickups in November (86,929 units sold - up 41 percent over last year) and is on pace for its best full-size pickup sales year since 1978.
<http://www.gminsidenews.com/11-01pronumbers.htm>
As for price, I am comparing web site to web site prices. Who knows how and when GM will be offering 0% financing or rebates? Similarly, Toyota may decide to do something to heat up the competition. Or as supply catches up with demand Toyota may be willing to deal more. Comparing web site to web site eliminates variables that can change and is more of a fair comparison. And that comparison say a Yukon Denali XL is $7000 more than a Sequoia Limited. In fact, I have an SR5 package "B". The difference between my vehicle and your Yukon Denali XL is approximately $15000.
Regarding 4wd vs. AWD, I was not stating one was better than the other. Obviously that depends on needs. I was simply saying that there are pros and cons to both. You pointed out some advantages, I pointed out some downsides. For example I think you'd agree if you were taking your vehicle off road or to a remote cabin, you would probably choose a vehicle with selectable levels of 4wd. Thus that would be a con for your Yukon.
Have any 02 Seq owners experienced this 'no power problem when in 2WD mode?
Last month I bought my wife a 2002 Sequoia. Since we've had it we have been very happy with it, with one exception. The other day I was driving down the road and had our dog in the back. I decided to roll the right rear window down to see how she liked the air. At the time I was doing about 35 MPH and there was no problem. As soon as I hit 46 MPH this noise started to build up inside the vehicle to a point it was getting painful. I had to roll up the window to stop it. After the ringing in my ears stopped I checked to see if it would do it again. Each time I hit 46 MPH it started and continued all the way down to around 30 MPH. It doesn't matter which rear window is down. Both do it. Not as bad if both are down though.
I took the Sequoia back to the dealership and drove the service writer, salesman, and service manager around to show them. They said they couldn't believe it and the service writer almost got sick from it. As a note, they installed the air defectors on my windows with no effect.
My question is has anyone else heard of this and if not could you try it in your own vehicle?
I would like to know. This is our 5th Toyota and the most expensive vehicle we've ever bought and I'm amazed that such a problem exists.
Any replies would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
You get a tone. You instead get a terrible noise.
I don't know in which state you live in but I would check to see if they have a lemon law like they do in NJ. In other words if the dealer can't fix the problem in 3 or 4 tries you can get your money back.
Good luck.
But it's the Holiday Season (everybody included) and I would like to take a moment to wish peace and good will to all.
HO, HO, HO (or whatever)
Seasons Greetings back to you!
There are other choices. Michelin make an Arctic Alpin in exact size but the tire is not rated as high.
The Bridgestones are very soft and only the top 55%(I think) is the actual tread good for ice, so it is critical to remove them as soon as possible in spring and put them on late as possible. Depending on mileage should get 3-4 seasons out of them.
They really are cheap insurance and what price for family safety? Go for it.
Instead of arguing with me on pricing why not simply check it out on Edmunds. You'll quickly find that the Denali is about $1000 more than a loaded Sequoia Limited (not the $7000 you are attempting to mislead readers with) and about $2500 more for a Denali XL. I would say thats a bargain when considering the additional luxury features, power and AWD you get with the Denali's.
I would agree that 4wd is preferable to AWD for serious off-roading although I do not consider a backroad trip to a cabin serious off-roading. BTW, were you intending to do some serious off-roading with that brand new shiney Sequoia?
Yukon Din.$47,355 msrp $41,527 invoice $42,572 tmv
Yukon Din XL-$48,890 msrp $42,874 inv.$43,898 tmv
Lets let the all the folks here decide which Yukon is closer in size, weight and price to the Sequoia Ltd 4wd and then be done with that issue.
Sequoia-203.9" length, Weight-5295 lbs
Yukon Din-198.9" length,Weight-5609 lbs.
YukonDinXL-219.3" length, Weight 5820 lbs.
Heatwave, these are the facts as Edmunds see it.They are the facts as most everyone else sees it. Tell me how 219.3" in length(Din XL is closer to 203.9" in length(Seq.) than 198.9"in length Yuk Din. Also, how is 5820 lbs.(Yuk Din XL) closer to 5295 lbs.(Seq) than 5609 lbs. (Yuk Din)??????? And by the way, you post so much here about the Yukon Dinali XL that I am beginning to think that that the banter on the General Motors board is boring you so you need to post here so you can expand your GM following. Rememeber this if anything, many of us have had and still own G.M. vehicles as well. Many have had there fill of GM quality and their products.
The fact that you don't like the numbers doesn't mean they are distorted or incorrect. Please check them out for yourself. Oh, and don't forget since I am only dealing with facts and with what I know, all my prices shown are in Canadian dollars.
The above post would seem to back my findings (when converted to Canadian dollars).
Wow, sure looks like you are twisting the facts based on recent postings.
Surely someone as fact based as yourself can see this.
I bought exactly the vehicle I needed. Your monster was too big. It was bigger than I needed. Why can't you understand that?
I could throw the argument back to you. Why do you have such a large vehicle? Do you have a large family? Do you need that much storage space? Sounds to me like you're the one that bought more vehicle than you needed.
The advantage of 4wd in the Sequoia is just as significant as some of the advantages in your monster.
I wonder why they didn't put 4wd in your monster?
Too bad.
You can get a Micheline 4x4 Alpin in the 265/70 size (at least in Canada) and Toyo makes a great winter tire called the observe which is also available in that size. The Toyo's are very quiet and excellent on ice. I prefer them to the Blizzaks (have had both).
Happy Holidays
The Sequoia Limited has less HP and weighs more than either the Yukon XL or the Yukon. It can only handle 6200lbs which is 2500lbs less than a Yukon XL and 2000lbs less than a Yukon. The Sequoia has a foot shorter wheelbase than the Yukon XL and yet its turning radius is the same as the Yukon XL and 4 ft wider than a Yukon which doesn't say much for its steering and front drivetrain design.
The Sequoia has a lower payload than both the Highlander and Sienna minivan and for that "priviledge" Toyota charges you twice as much for the Sequoia.
There is no comparison between the performance luxury and capabilites of a Denali compared with a Sequoia. A simple testdrive will prove the superiority of the Denali to anyone that goes out and drives a Sequoia Limited and than drives a Denali (or XL), get your best price from the dealer and you make the decision.
It would appear supporters of the Sequoia are embarrassed by the facts and challenged by the realities I've posted that can very easily be looked up here at Edmunds.
It's not always about specs. Ever notice in car magazines how they do a comparison and the 8 cars have similar specs yet one or two are superior cars-maybe they have less horsepower or torque!
There are a lot of intangibles in there-the "feel" of a vehicle. I drove all of the other vehicles including Yukon XL. Too big and I liked the feel of the Sequoia. You could have two engines the same horsepower and torque, yet one could be much smoother, technologically advanced and preferable to people. Yet on facts they could be the same specifications.
You need to realize that most of us here see your monster as a different vehicle, and obviously we prefer our Sequoias or else we would have bought a Yukon wouldn't we.
Using your analogy of comparison, why didn't you get a Lexus instead of an Avalon? Similar weight, horsepower, turning radius and only a couple of thousand dollars more. Or step up to something a little bigger? Oh, you didn't need something bigger? Gee, that's what happened when I bought my Sequoia!