2007 Elantra Speedometer / Odometer

13

Comments

  • tritchtritch Member Posts: 4
    I plan to take my car in for the update soon. I've had this problem for 6 months now waiting for a good fix. It sure took them long enough!

    For those who have already had the unofficial reprogramming done (like ebbuts), I would recommend to have the update done again with the new TSB. It's possible the latest patch is a better calibration and to make sure your car's warranty is officially extended by 3%. I'm also going to make sure that I retain a copy of the TSB and all service documents for warranty purposes...
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    The TSB:

    Technical Service Bulletin
    Subject: ECU REPROGRAMMING FOR SPEEDOMETER DISPLAY CUSTOMER SATISFACTION ACTION (CSA)
    Group: ELECTRICAL
    Number: 07-90-010
    Date: SEPTEMBER, 2007
    Model: 2007 ELANTRA
    CIRCULATE TO: [ ] GENERAL MANAGER [X] SERVICE ADVISOR
    [X] SERVICE MANAGER [X] WARRANTY MGR [ ] SALES MANAGER
    [X] PARTS MANAGER [X] TECHNICIAN

    DESCRIPTION:
    Some 2007 Elantra vehicles equipped with automatic transaxles may display inaccurate speedometer readings. This bulletin provides the procedure to reprogram the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) to resolve this condition.

    IMPORTANT NOTES:
    This TSB provides reprogramming instructions for GDS only. You may have to perform an initial internet update of GDS to receive the necessary data items #90 and #91. If a vehicle has not been driven for several days, first start and run the engine for several minutes to ensure it has a reasonably charged battery before conducting the reprogramming. A low vehicle battery charge can prevent reprogramming.

    VEHICLES AFFECTED:
    Model: 2007 Elantra vehicles with automatic transaxles. Applicable vehicle production date range: From August 1, 2006 through May 28, 2007.

    (The rest is the detailed procedure which only makes sense to a technician I suppose.)
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalMember Posts: 251
    I called my dealer to set up a time to bring in my Elantra for the TSB and they told me that they would only flash the ECU if the speedometer was more than 5 MPH over the actual speed. If it's within 5 MPH then it's in spec.
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    As someone said in one of the last replies, I definitely will check with my dealer to make sure my car's re-programming is at least the same as the one specified. My car was built 12-18-2006 so it would be what they call the #91 setup. If my dealer told me that if my car was 5 mph or less in error and that it was within spec., I would tell him I am going directly to Hyundai again because there is nothing in the TSB that says that. The way I read it all cars are to be re-programmed. Why else would Hyundai come out with the TSB. To be selective? I hope not.
  • dannysackdannysack Member Posts: 6
    Talked to the dealer on 7/13/07 and asked about the TSB. After they told me they looked it up they could not find any such TSB with that number I went to the website listed in an earlier posting and found it. Will update after a conversation with the service manager.
  • davidnewtdavidnewt Member Posts: 5
    I have reported the same problem to the dealer in January, but the service manager simply kicked me out. I went to the dealer service 3 more times after that and always be kicked out and be humilated by the service manager. He simply say it is my driving habbit problem. I am so angry about this. I am wondering if anyone considers the Lemon Law process or start a class-action lawsuit against Hyundai? I like Hyundai before, but now, I have to say I hate them because of their ignorance and arrogance on this issue. I am contacting lawyers to start the class-action lawsuit right now.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    You should also report the dealer's behavior to HMA, and th the local BBB if they are a member (most dealers are). There is no way a dealer should kick someone out and humiliate them simply because they come in and politely talk with them about an issue with their car.
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    Why waste your time with the BBB and HMA? What is wrong with going directly to the dealership owner? When I go down to the dealer about the TSB 07-90-010 I will have a copy of it in hand. I have emailed HMA, which I have said before is not part of Hyundai, about who exactly is covered by this TSB. By reading it it is everyone within the build dates of the Elantras. But according to one reply on this site the owner was told by the service people his/her car wasn't included because 5 MPH is within spec. I am betting Hyundai isn't looking at it that way or why have the TSB. Will post after I talk with the people. Just got an email asking me to call by phone.
  • davidnewtdavidnewt Member Posts: 5
    I have contacted HMA after I was rejected by the dealer service manager the second time. But HMA was arrogant too. The consumer affair manager says "Hyundai stands by its quality; all meters on our vehicles are certified with government standards". I really hate their attitude.
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalMember Posts: 251
    I talked to my friend, who is an attorney, about the speedometer issue and he told me that he did not think I would have a case because Hyundai has issued a TSB and extended the warranty by 3%. He said I could talk to a Lemon Law attorney but felt that most courts allow manufactures wide latitude to fix non safety or drivability issues. Also, I don’t think any court would hold Hyundai liable for a dealer’s bad behavior.
  • davidnewtdavidnewt Member Posts: 5
    I do not know if you recall the Honda case for the odometer problem. For the Honda case, there is only odometer problem, and the speedometer does not have problem. In this case, the speedometer probably can be argued as a safety issue according to one of the lawyers I am contacting, since the driver does not know the right speed and could cause stress on driving, and when changing vehicles with normal speedometer. Anyway, does Hyundai provide the quantitative results about how much their meters off? For me, the speedometer is 10% and odometer is 5%. The industry standard as I found from the Honda case is 4%. In the Honda case, the claimed error is about 2-3% which is below the standard, but Honda still settled to avoid additional publicity.
  • dannysackdannysack Member Posts: 6
    After printing out the TSB and taking it to another Hyundai dealer they fixed my car within 2 days. My speedometer is still off by 2MPH but much better than the 5-6 MPH it was off.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    i got a letter from hyundai yesterday in the mail about this TSB, so hopefully everyone else will which should make it easier to get it fixed at a local hyundai dealer.
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    Hate to see this thread change from speedometer problem to lawsuit which it is not. I did call HMA people and talked to some guy for at least 1/2 hour or more. He put me on hold several times cause he didn't know the answers to my questions. In fact at one point he told me he put my VIN into the system and it came back that my car wasn't included. I said he was nuts so he asked someone and came back saying everyone with cars built in the time frame will be getting a letter and that Hyundai will take care of every car. Of course mine was done under the secret re-programming but I still want to be sure it is within the #91 re-programming on the TSB. I have not gotten a letter yet but he assured me I will and if I don't have one in 2 weeks to call him back as he gave me that info also. I think it is so dumb to have these go-between people not even employed by Hyundai answering our complaints. Probably saving some money.
  • caazcaaz Member Posts: 209
    Still enjoying my Elantra...MPH (speedo) is perfect...didnt go through the frustrations you all are passing through... Should have taken my advice as i mentioned 2 months ago....Changed my tire size for 80.00...problem solved...lol
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    caaz - If you will go back thru these replies, you will find that I said you wasted money on your tires when all you had to do was get a reprogram job. I didn't go thru any frustrations. After I called the dealer questioning him about the speed problem he said he would get back to me which in 2 weeks he did and THEN I went to the dealer, 10 minutes to reprogram and check out. Mine cost me nothing. LOL Maybe you are Mr. Moneybags while the rest of us aren't. I wouldn't spend any money when it is Hyundai's problem. When your tires wear down, then what? Speedometer error is back. Good luck.
  • natty5natty5 Member Posts: 2
    So I took my 2007 Elantra in and they adjusted my speedometer but when I asked about the Odometer they said there weren't enough miles on the car to cause a problem. My problem with that is if my car has been reading 4-7 miles per hour off wouldn't this affect how many miles the car reads when it actually has less? Would love a knowledgable second opinion. Thanks :)
  • tritchtritch Member Posts: 4
    natty,

    From what I know, the problem affects both the odometer and speedometer even though the new TSB only mentions the speedometer. On my car, the error is about 10% high on both meters. The TSB reprogram will correct the calibration on both meters since they are both controlled by the ECU. The TSB does not address adjusting the odometer back to some arbitrary setting. There would be legal reporting issues involved when changing the odometer. So Hyundai has instead chosen to extend the warranty by 3% and avoid any reporting issues at all. In my opinion, I think it's better this way. Look at my case, the odometer reads 10K, but I know it should read only 9K. At this point, I'm not overly concerned with only a 1K error because the warranty extension gives me more than 1K over the long run. The longer you wait to get it fixed however, the mileage difference would become an issue. I suppose you could complain loud enough and get them to set the odometer back, but are you really concerned about it reading only 1 or 2K high at this point?
  • natty5natty5 Member Posts: 2
    Thank you,
    You have a very valid point and have fixed my confusion on the matter.
    Thank you again,
    Natty
  • caazcaaz Member Posts: 209
    but ebbuts...look at all these hundreds of postings.......right here.....that Can't resolve the problem....so i'm still happy with my resolution. I've read too many postings here stating how their Dealer never heard of the problem...never heard of TSB...etc... too much headache for me..i did it the easy way
  • g_designerg_designer Member Posts: 18
    Hyundai Customer Satisfaction Action

    Speedometer - Odometer Recalibration.

    I won't retype the whole letter but it says automatic equipped Elantras made thru 5/28/07 MAY indicate fasters speeds and more miles than actual.

    They are asking us to take our car to the dealer (call for appt)and they will reprogram the Electronic Control Unit at no charge.

    They will also extend the mileage period of all warranties provided with your vehicle by 3%(in red)

    If you have any difficulty getting this recal performed call 1-800-633-5151

    Personally I tested my speedometer with another car when I test drove my car, and it was spot on with the other car, but I may check it anyway, since maybe it changed when car was breaking in.

    G
    --------------------------
    Chronicles of a Hyundai Owner
    http://www.hyundaiowner.blogspot.com/
  • harlqnharlqn Member Posts: 18
    I received the letter yesterday and went to the dealer today. They reprogrammed it with no hassle. :shades: This is an 07 Elantra SE built in November 2006.

    I asked about their criteria and was told by the service writer that they check the car's computer for the existence of a particular code (I'm not sure which) and if it's set to one of the values they're aware of as problematic, then they perform the work specified in the TSB. So, if your car has the problem and the dealer is refusing, then maybe some sort of 2-car road test would help.

    Also, the dealer does not handle the warranty extension. You still have to call HMA and get that updated through them. I'll be starting that process this week.

    If it's of any value, I can post the service order line item for the TSB work.

    HTH
  • gr89074gr89074 Member Posts: 1
    I received the letter from Hyundai yesterday saying they are recalling all 2007 Elantras since they all have the problem. If you have not received the letter, contact your dealer and schedule an appointment to recalibrate your speedometer and odometer. You'll put a ton of unneccesary extra miles in the car which will shorten your warranty.
  • he07drivrhe07drivr Member Posts: 2
    I bought my car back in November 2007 based highly on the EPA gas mileage rating compared to others in this price group. My question is this: Was the EPA gas mileage testing performed on a car that was reporting better mileage than true performance? Because if the EPA gas reading is now lower than reported when I purchased my vehicle, that would have effected my purchasing decision significantly and I may have gone with a different vehicle. In which case, I would demand the option from Hyundai to give me a trade-in for a similar vehicle with similar or better EPA MPG estimates at little or no cost to me. Its bad enough that we'll be hurt when we go for a trade in thanks to the increased depreciation caused by this critical flaw.

    Does anyone have any comments on this?
  • durtybyrdzdurtybyrdz Member Posts: 11
    Went into my local dealership and after waiting for about 30 minutes I was informed that they misplaced the disc that had the update on it. When I suggested they download it they said they tried, "it didn't work", It ended with them promising to call me when the new disc came in. Sounded suspect until I called a couple of other dealerships in my neighborhood to find none had the update, but should be in by next week (or so they said). Anyone else getting the same? or am I getting the run-around? I'm in the NY area.

    Thanks.
  • durtybyrdzdurtybyrdz Member Posts: 11
    Great point. Members with fixed speedos... what's your mpg?
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    " In which case, I would demand the option from Hyundai to give me a trade-in for a similar vehicle with similar or better EPA MPG estimates at little or no cost to me"

    you might have problems "demanding" anything from a company the size of hyundai.

    every car's 08 EPA mpg is going down, but the 07 and 08 elantras will get the same mileage, it all depends on your driving habits.
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    My MPG since being reprogramed is about 2-3 MPG less than when I got it in Feb. 2007. In town with air is running 24-25 MPG. I fill my tank to the very top each time I fill. Granted it takes longer but if you stop when it shuts off itself, my car takes about 3-04 more gallons. That is where people are getting their huge in town and road MPG.

    I was at the dealer this AM for an oil change. I asked him about the letter and re-programming. This dealer had done a re-program on mine in June 2007, long before Hyundai finally came out with one officially. He told me they wanted to check mine to make sure it had the #91 re-program per the TSB which it does have. So my car has been OK since June 07. Get your cars in and get them fixed up guys. The wait for some of you is still better than buyng new tires. The dealer also said the 3% additional miles should be automatically extended once your car is fixed.

    Back to MPG. No matter what, this 2007 gets better mileage than my 2001 ever got. Have no idea why but it does even with the re-programming done.
  • tsmortytsmorty Member Posts: 1
    Yeah, Sorry the EPA gas mileage is not really the manufactor's mileage, it's determinted by tests which you can read about here. http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/, A goverment Agency.
  • harlqnharlqn Member Posts: 18
    I usually fill up when the gauge gets around 1/4 tank and I fill it up using the slowest pump setting. Usually I get 26/27 MPG from the computer and less than 1 MPG better than that based on my math (from the refuel amount vs. miles).

    The reprogram was done only 5 days ago and that includes a long highway trip, so my numbers for this tank aren't representative of my usual driving. However, I am seeing MPG numbers about 1 MPG less than I would expect.

    If I took it easy (~60mph on the freeways), I'd prolly be getting at least 29/30 MPG. However, frequent driving near/over the speed limit really makes the MPG nose-dive.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    What part of the country are you in, i.e. how cold was it from Feb to June, when you started using the A/C?

    We all know A/C cuts MPG. My experience says that temps below 50 also cost MPG. So, if you're not in a cold climate, say above 50* from when you got you car until you started using the A/C you were probably driving under better MPG conditions (although you had the break-in period).

    Reprogramming the speedo will not affect the MPG.
  • irismgirismg Member Posts: 345
    Thanks! Carmax has a loaded one for a great price, I may go drive it to see what it's like.
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    Yes programming will effect the MPG. Why do you think Hyundai gave you some extra mileage on the warranty? Simply because before programming you were getting more miles on your car than after re-programming. So with more miles wouldn't your MPG be greater? Just common sense.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Sorry, I should have said the actual MPG. I can see how it appeared I was talking about calculated MPG.

    However, you're talking about an MPG reduction of probably 5 to 10%. Yet the warranty increase is only 3%.

    Something doesn't add up. If your odometer was registering 3% higher and you drove 100 miles, the odo would read 103. Project that to 300 or 309 miles. Assuming a 10 gallon fill-up, you'd be looking at a .9, not 2 or 3 MPG difference. A/C usage will account for some of the difference, temperature range will also.
  • he07drivrhe07drivr Member Posts: 2
    I apologize in my original post about the "demanding" part. I was getting a bit angry. When I was shopping for cars, I was basing my purchasing decision heavily on price, MPG (according to the posted info online and on those info sheets they place in the window), warranty, and size/comfort inside [in that order]. So that being considered, are the MPG estimates that were posted online and on those car information sheets still accurate in estimated MPG? If they were to run those exact tests on the exact car again, only after the re-calibration, would the results still be 28 MPG city, 35 MPG highway? Because if that is NOT true, that is false advertising and depending on how much lower those estimate were, that may have effected my purchasing decision.

    My current calculated mpg is roughly 28 mpg (during non-ethanol gas months). I drive about 40% city, 60% highway with the A/C on in moderate/mild temperatures. After I get my car re-calibrated, I'll post my new calculated mpg.

    Oh, and here is another thing; When they re-calibrate the car, do they modify the odometer to reflect what the mileage should have truly been? Because I am close to qualifying for an insurance discount for driving under 10,000 miles/year, and missing out on that because the car was over-reporting mileage is going to irritate me.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    the testing standards the EPA uses is based on human calculations, not on the trip computer.

    Also, the MPG on the window stickers is based on EPA numbers, so no, its not false advertising, cause they aren't hyundai numbers.

    No, they don't modify the odometer. Hyundai has extended the warranty 3%, and 3% of 10000 miles is only 300 miles, so you should not worry. Besides, what does your insurance company do, come out and check you mileage every year?
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    One other not, the EPA has changed their testing standards to get a more accurate MPG for cars (such as testing at 75 mph, testing with the ac running, higher accel rates, and so on), the the new 08 tests show 25 MPG city and 33 MPG highway for the elantra automatic.

    Again, you have to understand that these numbers are just averages, and unless you drive exactly as the test drive did, then you may not get these results. The EPA does these test to give you a range of what you SHOULD expect, not what you will ACTUALLY get.
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    About the insurance mileage discount. I agree with the other replier when he asked if the insurance company comes out to check the odometer. In my many many years they have not and I doubt they ever will. You can give them an annual mileage total of whatever you want. If they know you are a salesman and drive lots of miles and you put down 10000, the agent might question you. Myself, I get old people discount, list low miles, but if I take an extended trip or two a year I am way past what I list. I am not worried about such a trivial thing and doubt the rate difference is that much. About EPA mileage on the window sticker, my car still falls in the average and that is good. Guess I am still more interested in the long term warranty for now.
  • whatstar1117whatstar1117 Member Posts: 5
    Sorry, I'm confused. If "actual" MPG is based on odometer(unreprogramed) reading, aren't we creating the same error?

    We had ours reprogrammed last week; haven't confirmed speedo or odometer yet but apparent(oh gosh am I really going 80 MPH?) speed is more real.
  • harlqnharlqn Member Posts: 18
    Do they note the mileage when you make a claim? If that's the case, they may check the mileage at the time the ins. policy started and do the math. Not sure if they'd bother even then, though.
  • wcooperwcooper Member Posts: 6
    Hope this helps some folks: (on www.safercar.gov)

    Make : HYUNDAI Model : ELANTRA Year : 2007
    Manufacturer : HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY
    Service Bulletin Num : 0790010 Date of Bulletin: SEP 01, 2007
    NHTSA Item Number: 10023141
    Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
    Summary:
    ECU REPROGRAMMING FOR SPEEDOMETER DISPLAY CUSTOMER SATISFACTION ACTION (CSA) *NJ
  • melmezmelmez Member Posts: 3
    Does anyone know if the letter that Hyundai sent out regarding this is posted anywhere online? The only thing I can find is regarding the speedometer not the odometer. Please help as I am fighting with my dealership about this.
  • melmezmelmez Member Posts: 3
    Anyway you can send me a copy of the letter? I can't find mine and I want the actual letter. Thanks!
  • melmezmelmez Member Posts: 3
    FYI... I don't know if you are aware, but I just got off the phone with my service department who informed me that when they fix the problem, the attach a sticker to your vehicle stating that the mileage is incorrect. This information will go on the title of the vehicle.
    I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't buy a car if the mileage isn't correct. They need to recall the car and replace them with one that doesn't have incorrect mileage. I see a lawsuit in the future about this!
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalMember Posts: 251
    The reprogramming of the ECM corrects the problem (both speedometer and odometer) from today forward. That is why Hyundai extended the mileage part of the warranty. The only time they put a mileage sticker on your car is when they replace the instrument cluster.
  • mshidelermshideler Member Posts: 1
    Did you get any info on the original letter? I was cited for speeding and need to bring that letter to traffic court and I lost it somehow.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    the problem with the speedo was that it was showing a faster speed than you were actually traveling. so if your speedo said you were going 50, your actual speed was about 45. i haven't heard of anyone have a problem of the speedo showing too slow of a speed.
  • ebbutsebbuts Member Posts: 20
    It would appear to me you don't have much of a leg to stand on because like nthe stated the speedometer is slow not fast so if you are on the interstate doing 85 mph and the speed limit is 75 like ours and you meet up with a ticket happy cop you probably got a ticket for 5 over. If you are going more than that, it's your tough luck. That letter isn't going to do a bit of good in your case I don't think. Pay the ticket and slow down.
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalMember Posts: 251
    Or to add insult to injury, the judge will say “So you state you were doing 85 and the cop only wrote you for 75? Well then, let’s tack another $200 on that fine.”
  • harlqnharlqn Member Posts: 18
    Sorry, I haven't been on this forum in a long time. If you still need the letter, I can probably dig it up.
This discussion has been closed.