I am glad we have one person here with some practical thoughts. If you get too drunk to drive but you really need some more beer, do you walk or bike to the convenience store?
If you get too drunk to drive but you really need some more beer, do you walk or bike to the convenience store?
Eh, I'd just stay home till I sobered up. Don't wanna get charged with a DWW (Drunk While Walking) :P
Y'know, the more I think this through, there's a way I could save even more fuel. Instead of picking up the beer myself, I could have one of my roommates do it on his way home from work. While the store is two miles out of my way (4 miles round trip), it's on his way home from work.
"Freight that doesn't pay enough should be left at the dock."
This is the only intelligent comment in the entire article. Truckers are worth whatever the market bears - no more, no less. Much like auto workers need to realize, if you are underpaid you should be able to rapidly find another job that pays you more.
"Heck, even with some cars, fuel can be the biggest financial component. I paid $22,389 out the door for my 2000 Intrepid. (taxes, tags, title, an extended warranty, etc). It currently has about 140,000 miles on it. So amortized, that's about 16 cents per mile!"
No doubt gas is sucking up a larger part of a persons transportation money, but in comparing cost per mile, there are a lot of variables that can throw the outcome wildly so it's really kind of hard to compare cost in this way. The biggest being original cost of the vehicle and how many miles a year you drive. Also, most people don't pay cash for their car, so the "out the door" cost isn't accurate if you financed.
If it cost $30,000, you financed at 6% for 5 years, and you've driven 50,000, your "cost per mile" is going to be much different than if you paid cash and you've driven it 150,000 miles. And again, much different if you just bought it and paid cash and have only driven it 5,000 miles. On the other hand, if you just bought it and it's financed rather than paying cash, you haven't paid $30,000. You've only paid what your monthly payments have totaled. So the outcome of this comparison doesn't really tell us anything except that if you keep a vehicle for a really long time rather than trading in, your cost per mile driven will be less.
Actually, to be accurate, you also have to consider depreciation and the remaining value of your current vehicle. Even though you pay it off in 5 years, your vehicle is not worth $0. It very well may be worth $18,000. So you can't say it cost you $30,000 over the miles you've driven. You have to subtract the current value of your vehicle before doing the calculations.
Now add in not only the cost of the vehicles, but also the interest on a loan, maintenance, repairs, tires, brakes, oil changes, etc. to get the real cost of owning the vehicle because no one drives 150,000 miles without new tires, oil changes, brakes, etc. You could even consider the cost of insurance.
And it seems we are doing the calculations with today's gas price, too. To figure out the cost of gas per mile vs. cost of vehicle per mile, one would want to use the gas price during the mile driven. Comparing it at today's gas price is skewing it a bit.
Even though the gas prices are getting higher, in most vehicles, when all of the above are taken into considration, the cost per mile of owning, repairing, insuring, etc. still well exceeds the cost of gas per mile...not that it makes it any more fun to pay $80 to fill a gas tank that used to only cost $45.
up above $4.00/gallon. So, for the past 4 months or so, my thoughts have turned rather electric concerning this automotive experiment of those inventors...both before Henry Ford, and those after he found a way to mass-produce these mon-stro-sto-lithic money-drainers. How 'bout one of these new all-EV's?
With a price estimated to be around $23,000 and an all-electric means of propulsion, this rig will put you at the forefront of practical transportation propelled from electricity, produced for the average Henry Ford "line worker". Trouble is, as both gas and food and utility prices rise ever-upwards, will even a rig like this be within our grasp?
This car's engine is powered with lithion-ion batteries, which are located underneath and in the middle of the chassis-box. This doesn't hurt it's cornering/handling abilities, evidently, and acceleration is said to be 31% quicker than the ICE i-MIEV from Mitsubishi. The UK is turned-on to these "city" cars already(the ICE versions, of course), not really surprisingly, yep. Top speed for the Mitsubishi i-MIEV is 85 mph and what is its range, you might be wondering? It is said to be some 100 miles. That is about as good as it gets right now for an all-EV. From early test-drives the car's cabin is said to be very quiet, and acceleration does not increase noise in to the cabin much.
Re-charging depends upon which voltage source you choose. The lowest voltage full-charge is 13 hours on a 100-volt power source. 200-volt power surce re-charges take some 8 hours IIRC and Mitsubishi is developing a charging system available to all buyers in which an 80% re-charge is available taking only a half hour. Do Google for this information as I'm going from memory on some of this information...I've been reading and re-reading this Mitsubishi i-MIEV electric car stuff pretty regularly, though, for about a month or two, so what I type here is basically pretty close to the truth.
If I were to trade in our '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in on one of these pups in a year and a half or so, my wife and I would need to find a plug-in in Tucson to re-charge at. There is but one Mitsubishi dealership in Tucson, it's called Wildcat Mitsubishi. It has only been open about a year or so. One existed before that but was out of business for a spell. We bought our Lancer GTS in Avondale, a western suburb of Phoenix, and another 129 miles NW of Tucson. If we bought the quick Mitsubishi re-charge system and could find a plug-in everyone agreed upon I could use, we could drive from our little cowtown to Tucson, shop till we drop, and re-charge in half an hour. Then begin the 80-mile return trip home.
No doubt gas is sucking up a larger part of a persons transportation money, but in comparing cost per mile, there are a lot of variables that can throw the outcome wildly. The biggest being original cost of the vehicle and how many miles a year you drive. Also, most people don't pay cash for their car, so the "out the door" cost isn't accurate if you financed.
Yeah, that OTD cost wasn't totally accurate. Plus, I've had to put repairs/maintenance into the car, registration renewals, emissions test fees, etc. I keep a spreadsheet that tracks all that, and my cost per mile is actually about 21.4 cents, not including gas and insurance. And as time goes by, that cost per mile should gradually drop, as long as I don't have to sink any major repairs into it.
"just filled up my dodge deisel truck the other day 2001......$129.61 to fill it...for that i can go about 600 miles....."
For $130, I can go about 1600 miles in my Echo...I am surprised at the large difference (because yours is diesel) even if your truck is an HD.
I am encouraged to see some of the most recent comments in here. Americans have always started and ended their buying considerations with the initial price of the vehicle, which is dumb when you consider that running costs over 5 or more years will often outweigh the initial MSRP (and pretty much always will if you finance) and can vary significantly depending on the vehicle you choose.
Now with $4 gas in the mix, gas will often be the biggest single component of those after-purchase costs, regardless of whether you are looking at keeping the vehicle 50K miles or 500K miles.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
and what is its range, you might be wondering? It is said to be some 100 miles. That is about as good as it gets right now for an all-EV.
Do you think that range was an optimum? is that range with the AC on which you might want? or how about with the headlights and stereo on? I bet that 100+ mile range was also at a slower speed than you're highway speed in AZ too.
And as batteries age they will hold less and less of a charge, so you may find your range drops a few miles every year.
To me that vehicle is nothing more than an intra-city car.
First, Shell offers 5% back if you have a Shell card. At a buck a gallon, who cares, but at $4 per gallon you're talking about 20 cents off per gallon.
Second, prices vary by region. Around me, Shell is no more expensive than Exxon, Texaco, or any other name brand for that matter.
When you put the two together, Shell is often the cheapest.
Example. I was in Laurel, MD yesterday. Costco had the cheapest gas prices - $3.15. Shell was actually 2nd cheapest, $3.24.
However, with the 5% rebate factored in, Shell gas actually costs $3.08 per gallon, i.e. Shell is the cheapest gas in town!
Cheaper than Costco! And Costco charges membership fees.
Just cave in and get the card, dude! The more expensive gas gets, the more valuable the Shell card is.
Just did the same thing with my Dodge Ram... $131.25 at $4.269 per gallon. I'm in a catch-22... I can get it 30 cents cheaper, but my engine runs much better on the higher priced stuff (higher cetane and better additives). I get at least 1 mpg better with the pricier D2.
I look at purchase price, operating costs, and ROI. My 2005 Ram 3500 would have been $5000 cheaper had I purchased the Hemi. But the current wholesale price (trade-in value) is actually $6500 greater with the diesel after 3 years and nearly 60,000 miles. So my engine alone has actually increased in value by $1500. Then factor the better mileage with the diesel, and I'm pretty satisfied with my decision.
This car's engine is powered with lithion-ion batteries, which are located underneath and in the middle of the chassis-box. This doesn't hurt it's cornering/handling abilities, evidently, and acceleration is said to be 31% quicker than the ICE i-MIEV from Mitsubishi. The UK is turned-on to these "city" cars already(the ICE versions, of course), not really surprisingly, yep. Top speed for the Mitsubishi i-MIEV is 85 mph
Well if I wanted and EV I would get one of these. It also has a full electric and if it's as fun to drive as it looks then I will definitely buy one. Cars are so boring nowadays and I think this is the answer and what with 100mpg for the hybrid you can't go wrong! http://www.flytheroad.com/
Click on the video links. I am very serious, I will buy one of these if it gets 100mpg, is reliable and is as fun to drive as it seems. Oh and it's protected from the rain, so that's a bonus. Too bad i don't know if it has a heater, but if it does I can probably get 9 months use out of it! :shades:
no, putting the A/C on may very well decrease that range to 80 miles, or, even something like 70 miles, quite possibly. I am giving this car every benefit of a doubt as I study it, however, real-life performance at this period of lithium-ion development time, may not be enough for us to use this car as our primary car. For us, that kills this idea for now, because we are at all times a one-rig couple.
No, those concerns are valid and I would really need a longer range before I'd plunk a deposit down on one of these Mitsubishi i-MIEV's. But I am really the most impressed with this electric car from Mitsubishi than any other one I've seen so far. I will need to watch the battery development and see if range can be improved by the time the cars are available. Even if range does improve I just acquired our '08 Lancer GTS last March '07, so, Uncle Sam would have to be offering some fantastic tax rebtes or something on these rigs to make the idea attractive sooner. I really don't see that happening, although a Boeing workmate bought a 2001 Toyota Prius and received a $2,000 rebate from the Federal Guv-Mint back for it. So these things do happen and can happen.
tiff c, wow, that is an interesting looking cycle-car you got there. That looks fairly promising, but are you at all worried about safety concerns driving one of those? The only bike I've ever owned was a Honda 70 trail bike during the early 70's, so I'm not much motorcycle savvy. But that design looks well-presented and well-thought out and looks to offer great gas mileage and an enclosed environment for travelling in. Are you interested in buying one perhaps?
Kind of a high priced toy... That would have paid for my Seqouia Limited and 4 years worth of gas at the current price. It will have to be around $12k to sell in the USA. The Insight was more practical and it never sold well at half that price. You can buy a plushed out Camry Hybrid and enough gas to go around the World more than 10 times.
tiff c, wow, that is an interesting looking cycle-car you got there. That looks fairly promising, but are you at all worried about safety concerns driving one of those? The only bike I've ever owned was a Honda 70 trail bike during the early 70's, so I'm not much motorcycle savvy. But that design looks well-presented and well-thought out and looks to offer great gas mileage and an enclosed environment for travelling in. Are you interested in buying one perhaps?
iluvmysephia1, if you figure that has a range of 120 miles for the electric version and 100mpg for the hybrid. I'd say that's tough to beat and the rear of the vehicle is always planted on the ground. It's on the cab that tilts. For me I will wait and see how well they are built and how safe they truly are and you can be sure the magazines will beat the snot out of them in testing them. I bet the first 2 years will be fully sold out. If one was available right now and I liked it on a test drive I would literally buy one tomorrow. Of course it won't replace my Si, or rather my wifes Si. We looked at trading the Si in on a Prius but they gave us a bad price. My wife was crying that she didn't want to give up her Civic. Needless to say we are keeping the Civic. I still get 25mpg combined if driven normally and it's not broken it yet. The Venture looks like a thrill ride and sure the snow months are brutal but so what, a smart car also has trouble in the snow. I think the Venture would be in my driveway if I could buy it now. :shades: I think the electric version might be pretty cool as well but useless for me as i need extendable range ie: Gas. You won't see me on a normal motorcycle, I don't get into that any more, too much sun baking you and you freeze and get wet as well. :sick: Oh and it has a reverse gear! Lots of options for the future!
"I want guns on the side of this thing!" 22.5k pounds. What's that in dollars?
Yeah cool, eh? You just know James Bond will get one eventually!
The Hybrid on the home page estimates about $20K USD not Pounds Sterling. The Carver is about that but not the Venture. I think $20K or so is reasonable. For me it'd be a great 9 month commuter and toy.
Do you think the Venture will ever be sold here in the USA? I would doubt it. If they license it as a motorcycle they may be able to import them. That is the only way.
I thought the rig in the video was the one we were talking about.
$44,632.25 USD Kind of a high priced toy... That would have paid for my Sequoia Limited and 4 years worth of gas at the current price. It will have to be around $12k to sell in the USA. The Insight was more practical and it never sold well at half that price. You can buy a plushed out Camry Hybrid and enough gas to go around the World more than 10 times.
Actually they estimate about $20K USD and I think that's doable and eventually prices will drop. But the Carver is around $40K and that's because it's hand built. A big company could pump them out with enough volume. I see it as more competition with a Honda Goldwing than anything else and those are easily $20K. Drive around the world enclosed and getting 100mpg is pretty good too!
Do you think the Venture will ever be sold here in the USA? I would doubt it. If they license it as a motorcycle they may be able to import them. That is the only way. I thought the rig in the video was the one we were talking about.
The videos are of the Carver which the Venture is based on. The Venture has 1 or 2 videos as well. It might very well be sold in the US as the website claims. If this company has the backers it claims it's a possibility. It will be sold as a motorcycle as it would be impossible as a car. But it's really not a car or a motorcycle. It's a true Hybrid. The specs on the Venture which licenses the Carver technology are on the main page. Videos are mixed Carver and Venture. I will sign up for one as soon as possible. The Can-Am spyder is just too outside for me but cool as well and a trike.
I don't think they even have a prototype yet. They are projecting 100 MPG with the PHEV VentureONE. They have licensed the design from Carver. I would guess it would be 4-5 years in the making. I will be surprised if we see any kind of practical PHEV before 2010.
I did not watch all the way through all the videos. I had seen some of those a while back. It is a cool concept. Not very practical for me as a grocery hauler.
I don't think they even have a prototype yet. They are projecting 100 MPG with the PHEV VentureONE. They have licensed the design from Carver. I would guess it would be 4-5 years in the making. I will be surprised if we see any kind of practical PHEV before 2010.
I think we could see one in a couple of years but hard to say as the Tesla was supposed to be out a long time back. I think this will take less time, but who really knows.
As far a a grocery getter I think it's as practical as a Goldwing Motorcycle or a Smart car or a combo of both. But it won't replace your SUV nor is it intended to. My Civic So does all that I need a car to do and if I need more space. I'll rent a Uhaul van for $20 a day. :shades: I don't work on my own home and panel walls or anything big so it's easier for me than do-it-yourselfers. I still want one and I'm hoping sooner than later. I'm driving a Smart car tomorrow so we'll see.
I don't remember checking this out when I clicked to the website you linked on the hybrid, but, does that motorcycle-car have seats for two? It's not a one-person rig is it? Intriguing idea, that is not your usual hybrid. Blows the conventional Prius right outta da water, man!
I am really going to be checking for updates on the Mitsubishi i-MIEV as it's development moves along. They have a very smart design and have been working on it for a long while...I just have a sneaking suspicion that as the decision to market the all-electric model in the States becomes reality in the next year or year and a half, that Mitsubishi's battery supplier and Mitsu itself will find a safe way to extend that range. I mean, it's almost there right now for me and if I can find plug-in locations where I like to cruise regularly(a little foot and phone work there, uh-huh)a i-MIEV could work out for us. Very tentative though at this point, for sure, for sure, man.
I can't seem to figure out why, humm...but I have this great desire to get out of ICE rigs completely. What might be driving that idea, anyway? Pardon the pun. :shades:
Well..I gave up my Ranger with a small V-6 ,for a tiny Chevy Aveo..that is suppose to get 24+ mpg in the city, and people are saying over 40mpg on the highway. Yet I barely get 15-17 in the city!
So I lost a hot truck, in a great color, with next to no mileage on it, and traded it in at $2.75 a gallon gas on this tiny car, that I do like...except for the mileage..and the bald tires at 7,400 miles! At $4.00 a gallon. IF they EVER get the SMART car here,...and not have a waiting list to buy one. And bring the price down to earth...THAT is my next car.
Europe got it right decades ago. Now if all these 'soccer moms' would stop driving those huge SUV's they cant even see out of, to go buy a gallon of milk, and pick up their brats at a field a mile away....make them walk! And teen boys would stop buying huge SUV's and other V-8 cars, the boys need to prove they are men by driving huge V-8's to compensate for something else? If they would stop buying V-8's, and the car companies would STOP make the huge SUV's, the sales would drop and the ywould be force to invent fun and fast and fuel efficent cars. Like Honda does, like Mercedes does, with the SMART car, THEN we will help the situation. SMART car...here I come!!!
Well, I'd probably drive a little slower, and try for more highway, less city. If things look really bad, I'd probably consider getting a second, more efficient, car for city stuff. Thing is, the savings would have to be huge to justify in the short term, and I really like cars to be fun to drive, so a Prius is out
I looked at the Smart TwoFor in Victoria BC. I really thought it would be a practical little car. Sadly we are getting a gas guzzling version. It will be lucky to get 35 MPG. The diesel version that sells so well in Canada is rated at 70 MPG. Some claim to get up to 90 MPG. Again we are screwed by the regulators in this country that feed at the oil company trough.
Well..I gave up my Ranger with a small V-6 ,for a tiny Chevy Aveo..that is suppose to get 24+ mpg in the city, and people are saying over 40mpg on the highway. Yet I barely get 15-17 in the city!
If I were you I'd take that Aveo in to a repair shop that knows what they're doing and have it checked out, because you should NOT be getting 15-17 mpg. Unless you're spending an awful lot of time idling.
Now to be fair, the Aveo is not a very efficient car for its class. I think for the most part, they're about as economical as your typical midsized 4-cyl...Accord, Camry, Altima, etc. But 15-17 mpg is more on par with some V-8 SUVs!
That is exactly what I get in the comfort of my Sequoia. I own a large SUV because there is SO LITTLE gain in being cramped into a mini SUV. When I can get a PU or SUV that gets 35+ MPG I will buy one. None available in this third world country.
"Now if all these 'soccer moms' would stop driving those huge SUV's... ...And teen boys would stop buying huge SUV's and other V-8 cars, the boys need to prove they are men by driving huge V-8's to compensate for something else?"
Yes, it would be nice if folks made a choice to get a better mpg car, but it is still a choice and it's their choice. Not for anyone else to make. If they are willing to pay for the gas (without complaining about the price), then more power to them. And let's drop the whole "compensate for something" diatribe. That's getting ridiculous. Slamming people for exercising the freedom of choice by questioning their genital size is a bit "teenish" in and of itself, isn't it?
The reason for driving V8 cars is plain and simple fun. If you are not a gear head, it probably won't make sense, but anyone that is understands the fun and sportyness of acceleration whether it's a car, motorcycle, snowmobile, or whatever.
Full disclosure: I do have a truck with a V8. But I use it like a truck at least once a week. I also drive it back and forth to work (9 miles one-way), but I get 20mpg and it's paid off in a couple months. If I traded it in, I'd have another car payment and I can buy a LOT of gas with that. I bring my lunch to work so I don't have to drive to lunch. If I don't have one, I walk the mile to the nearest food place rather than drive. I combine my grocery store, hardware store, etc. into a once a week drive to town (10 miles one way and the opposite way from work).
I also ride a motorcycle to work any sunny day over 30 degrees F. and get 40mpg or 65mpg depending on which one. Should I slam you for not trading in that gas guzzling Aveo for a motorcycle to get better mileage? I wouldn't even think of it. My wife's car also gets over 30mpg and we use that when possible. So I probably do more than a lot of people to conserve and use less fuel in a month than most people driving an econo car. So when you see someone driving around a truck or SUV, think twice about grouping them into some stereotype because you don't know their situation. They might be using way less gas a month than you.
And blaming the teens for V8s? I think you are thinking more of my generation. The current crop of "go fast" teens are mostly about I4s with twin turbos and intercoolers on smaller, lighter cars. Though there are plenty in the younger generations that can still appreciate the "old school" pony car with a big block V8, I think that many teens today see them as old technology, clunky, etc. Besides, most teens can't afford new. They are buying used cars so they are not influencing the new car sales at all and new car sales are what influence the manufactures. Totally misplaced blaming teens.
"If they would stop buying V-8's, and the car companies would STOP make the huge SUV's, the sales would drop and the would be force to invent fun and fast and fuel efficient cars"
You are correct. Supply and demand. If everyone stopped buying certain vehicles, manufacturers would adjust their car and truck lines accordingly. But it's a free market and it is only the majority of buyers that can effect it. As you do, I want folks to think about buying more economical vehicles on their next scheduled trade-in. They should have the facts and info, but then make the decision that is right for them. I'm against any type of mandate, government pressure, and even peer pressure. To each their own.
...That being said, I will give friends a lot of good-humored grief if they complain the slightest about gas prices while driving a gas hog vehicle or driving in a gas wasting manner (jack rabbit starts, speeding, etc.). They have no room to complain if they don't take personal responsibility for choosing the vehicle they do, especially if they have recently traded for a different gas hog, knowing the current trend in fuel prices.
By the way, the 08 Chevy Corvette, with a 6.2 Liter V8 is rated at 26mpg hwy. A 08 Honda Accord Sedan with 3.5 Liter V6 is rated at 29mpg hwy. Not exactly a huge difference.
Now if all these 'soccer moms' would stop driving those huge SUV's they cant even see out of, to go buy a gallon of milk, and pick up their brats at a field a mile away....make them walk! And teen boys would stop buying huge SUV's and other V-8 cars, the boys need to prove they are men by driving huge V-8's to compensate for something else? If they would stop buying V-8's, and the car companies would STOP make the huge SUV's, the sales would drop and the ywould be force to invent fun and fast and fuel efficient cars.
I see you want to tell us what to choose for transportation and how weI should use it, so I'll do the same. If you live in the city (which you must to get the kind of mileage your reporting with your Aveo) take public transportation. Your Aveo is getting economy comparable to my Suburban.
I'm not going to put my family in a Smart Car. Sorry, we have places to go and things to do AS A FAMILY. We tow our boat and our camper and my wife and I spend quality time with our 9 & 5 year old daughters and their friends. We also entertain our friends and their kids, so it's not uncommon for us to have 8 in our Suburban on the weekends. Try that in a Smart Car.
If I had a long commute everyday, I can see the benefits of a Smart type of vehicle, but I don't, so buying an additional more fuel efficient vehicle would be a complete waste of money.
I'll assume you don't have kids, with your comments. This morning my 9 year old missed the bus (it was my fault as I over slept). Sorry, but I'm not going to make a 9 year old girl walk 2 miles down a busy state HWY w/o sidewalks. So I got in line with many other parents letting my enviroment destroying SUV idle for 10 minutes to drop my daughter off. BTW, most of the other parents had Minivans. Which I would have if I didn't want to tow.
Sorry but SUVs aren't going away. Their sales will surely decline, but their are plenty of us who own RVs, boat, and have large families that need/want what a SUV offers.
It doesn't seem fair that my friend's 345 hp V8 Corvette gets better fuel mileage than my 147 hp I4 Porsche. It also isn't fair that he is perceived as the one driving a gas guzzler.
Yes, it would be nice if folks made a choice to get a better mpg car, but it is still a choice and it's their choice. Not for anyone else to make. If they are willing to pay for the gas (without complaining about the price), then more power to them. And let's drop the whole "compensate for something" diatribe. That's getting ridiculous. Slamming people for exercising the freedom of choice by questioning their genital size is a bit "teenish" in and of itself, isn't it?
Thank you. While like most people, I don't like the increased gas prices, but I don't complain either. So it takes $80-90 to fill my Suburban up and another $120 or so to fill the boat. That's my problem and we easily afford it. It seems it bothers others that I spend so much on a fill up than it does me. My avg. monthly gas bill is usually around $300. We don't have any vehicle payments, so our fuel bill is a non-issue.
Wow, I'd really be curious to know the details on the buyer who went from an F250 to a Prius!
A couple weeks ago, my coworker traded an '04 Tundra on an '09 Corolla. Last week, he was having a bit of buyer's remorse. He has a boat that, with the trailer and everything, weighs about 4,000 pounds, and he probably tows it twice per week. He was thinking that he should have thought it through a bit better, and compromised on a vehicle that was more efficient than his Tundra, but could still tow the boat. Then I reminded him that his family also has a Sequoia. "Oh, but that's the wife's!" :confuse:
Wow, I'd really be curious to know the details on the buyer who went from an F250 to a Prius!
It's funny what people will do when they don't think things through. Then sometimes situations changes. Several years ago when I sold my 50mpg 2000 Jetta TDI. The guy who bought it had just sold his Dodge Ram. He had just started a new job as a mechanical engineer and had a 50 mile one way commute. Since he really didn't need the utility of the truck, he sold it and bought my Jetta.
I have neighbor that traded a late '90s Jeep Grand Cherokee for a '07 new Toyota Sequoia (they have a boat to tow). For some reason they felt it would use to much gas, so they traded it in on a used Toyota Sequia along with purhcasing a used Toyota Corrola. As they were telling me this story, I didn't dare ask how much it actually cost them to try to save some gas money. I guess if their main goal was to save fuel then they succeded.
Without the details... 23 y.o. making $50K+ annually and impeccable credit. He had positive equity in his 250 because he sold it outright and bought the Prius the following day. His other two vehicles (!!) are a beach-runner and a cycle. Smart kid.
An additional anecdote...a 10 month-old M6 (!) for a Hybrid Highlander. After taking a $30K hit for depreciation he received in return a new loaded HH and a check for $25000.
I have a friend with an F150 and his wife has an Expedition. "To save money on gas" they bought a new Accord to drive in addition to these two cars. Any gas savings are probably eaten up by the extra insurance alone, not to mention depreciation and other costs.
"I have a friend with an F150 and his wife has an Expedition. "To save money on gas" they bought a new Accord to drive in addition to these two cars. Any gas savings are probably eaten up by the extra insurance alone, not to mention depreciation and other costs. "
Yep, it's amazing how many people make knee-jerk decisions without realizing how much it's really costing them. Now, if their ONLY purpose is to cut down on gas consumption, no matter how much it costs them, I salute them for being willing to spend so much money to use less gas. Most people, though, either need to, or prefer to, make the decision based on cost savings. And, as many have realized, it's cheaper to keep their paid off vehicle and pay to use more gas than it is for them to buy a new vehicle with better mileage. Same for buying a second vehicle to save money. And often, even paying the extra for hybrid technology vs. the same vehicle in non-hybrid form. The math just doesn't add up to money savings. Only gallons-of-gas savings.
I give a lot of credit to anyone that has done the math a makes a conscious decision to spend the extra money to save some gas. If money was no object, I'd definitely do the same thing. I would actually love to have a Prius as a daily driver instead of my truck, but it would cost us way too much money to do that. I'll be looking at doing that once my truck is so old it isn't reliable daily transportation and is relegated to the occasional towing or hauling duty, but that will be at least another 5 years (it's only 5 years old now).
I put so few miles on my truck each year, even driving a Prius would only save me about 25 gallons a month. At $4/gallon, that would be only $100/mnth. Not enough to make a dent in another car payment much less insurance and maintenance. At $8/gallon, that's still only $200/month. Gas will probably hit that about the time I'm ready to buy another vehicle in 5 years, and hopefully there will be something out there that gets a lot better mileage than the current Prius.
If folks are going to be trading in a vehicle anyway, that is a good time to look at a more fuel-economical vehicle. But adding another car or trading in just for the sake of fuel economy will tend to only make sense for those that put on a LOT of miles per month or have the expendable money to do so.
If a person doesn't have to tow or haul really heavy loads, there are actually quite a few cars out there that will tow 1,500 or even 3,000 lbs, so buying a little flat-bed trailer, with which to haul, is a good option to replace a pickup.
I certainly didn't get a 3rd car to save money on gas, but when you do, you have to consider several other benefits to having that extra car.
In my case, I got a used Miata. It cost me only $7800, and is still worth $4-5000 today, 8 years later. So depreciation is negligable.
Insurance does cost me about $500 every 6 months or so, but...
* it has kept the miles off my newer cars that would have depreciated more * it uses slightly less gas (very minor part of the overall benefit, admittedly) * I have a spare car that my brother used when he visited * I had a spare car when one of them was in the body shop for 3 weeks
Mostly, though, it allows you to get a car that's special-purpose.
The Miata is fun, you can drop the top when it's warm. It's easy to park, good on gas, nimble around town, and fits in tiny parking spots.
If my other vehicle was an Expedition those would be HUGE advantages for a commute to the city like mine.
I'm not saying I disagree with your assertion that buying a $25k Accord to save $10/week on gas is ridiculous, because it is.
All I'm saying is that having an extra car can yield several benefits, the least of which is saving gas.
All I'm saying is that having an extra car can yield several benefits, the least of which is saving gas.
Very true, I'd love to have a convertible like your Miata or some other fun type of car that I could drive around town, have fun in etc. But in our case, we have limited parking and having a boat, RV, and SUV and 1 Car is enough. Hmm, I like the Miata Idea though, they are fun cars.
Comments
Eh, I'd just stay home till I sobered up. Don't wanna get charged with a DWW (Drunk While Walking) :P
Y'know, the more I think this through, there's a way I could save even more fuel. Instead of picking up the beer myself, I could have one of my roommates do it on his way home from work. While the store is two miles out of my way (4 miles round trip), it's on his way home from work.
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20080331_Costs_fuel_truckers__ang- er.html
This is the only intelligent comment in the entire article. Truckers are worth whatever the market bears - no more, no less. Much like auto workers need to realize, if you are underpaid you should be able to rapidly find another job that pays you more.
No doubt gas is sucking up a larger part of a persons transportation money, but in comparing cost per mile, there are a lot of variables that can throw the outcome wildly so it's really kind of hard to compare cost in this way. The biggest being original cost of the vehicle and how many miles a year you drive. Also, most people don't pay cash for their car, so the "out the door" cost isn't accurate if you financed.
If it cost $30,000, you financed at 6% for 5 years, and you've driven 50,000, your "cost per mile" is going to be much different than if you paid cash and you've driven it 150,000 miles. And again, much different if you just bought it and paid cash and have only driven it 5,000 miles. On the other hand, if you just bought it and it's financed rather than paying cash, you haven't paid $30,000. You've only paid what your monthly payments have totaled. So the outcome of this comparison doesn't really tell us anything except that if you keep a vehicle for a really long time rather than trading in, your cost per mile driven will be less.
Actually, to be accurate, you also have to consider depreciation and the remaining value of your current vehicle. Even though you pay it off in 5 years, your vehicle is not worth $0. It very well may be worth $18,000. So you can't say it cost you $30,000 over the miles you've driven. You have to subtract the current value of your vehicle before doing the calculations.
Now add in not only the cost of the vehicles, but also the interest on a loan, maintenance, repairs, tires, brakes, oil changes, etc. to get the real cost of owning the vehicle because no one drives 150,000 miles without new tires, oil changes, brakes, etc. You could even consider the cost of insurance.
And it seems we are doing the calculations with today's gas price, too. To figure out the cost of gas per mile vs. cost of vehicle per mile, one would want to use the gas price during the mile driven. Comparing it at today's gas price is skewing it a bit.
Even though the gas prices are getting higher, in most vehicles, when all of the above are taken into considration, the cost per mile of owning, repairing, insuring, etc. still well exceeds the cost of gas per mile...not that it makes it any more fun to pay $80 to fill a gas tank that used to only cost $45.
With a price estimated to be around $23,000 and an all-electric means of propulsion, this rig will put you at the forefront of practical transportation propelled from electricity, produced for the average Henry Ford "line worker". Trouble is, as both gas and food and utility prices rise ever-upwards, will even a rig like this be within our grasp?
This car's engine is powered with lithion-ion batteries, which are located underneath and in the middle of the chassis-box. This doesn't hurt it's cornering/handling abilities, evidently, and acceleration is said to be 31% quicker than the ICE i-MIEV from Mitsubishi. The UK is turned-on to these "city" cars already(the ICE versions, of course), not really surprisingly, yep. Top speed for the Mitsubishi i-MIEV is 85 mph and what is its range, you might be wondering? It is said to be some 100 miles. That is about as good as it gets right now for an all-EV. From early test-drives the car's cabin is said to be very quiet, and acceleration does not increase noise in to the cabin much.
Re-charging depends upon which voltage source you choose. The lowest voltage full-charge is 13 hours on a 100-volt power source. 200-volt power surce re-charges take some 8 hours IIRC and Mitsubishi is developing a charging system available to all buyers in which an 80% re-charge is available taking only a half hour. Do Google for this information as I'm going from memory on some of this information...I've been reading and re-reading this Mitsubishi i-MIEV electric car stuff pretty regularly, though, for about a month or two, so what I type here is basically pretty close to the truth.
If I were to trade in our '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in on one of these pups in a year and a half or so, my wife and I would need to find a plug-in in Tucson to re-charge at. There is but one Mitsubishi dealership in Tucson, it's called Wildcat Mitsubishi. It has only been open about a year or so. One existed before that but was out of business for a spell. We bought our Lancer GTS in Avondale, a western suburb of Phoenix, and another 129 miles NW of Tucson. If we bought the quick Mitsubishi re-charge system and could find a plug-in everyone agreed upon I could use, we could drive from our little cowtown to Tucson, shop till we drop, and re-charge in half an hour. Then begin the 80-mile return trip home.
And not burn any actual ICE petrol at all, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Yeah, that OTD cost wasn't totally accurate. Plus, I've had to put repairs/maintenance into the car, registration renewals, emissions test fees, etc. I keep a spreadsheet that tracks all that, and my cost per mile is actually about 21.4 cents, not including gas and insurance. And as time goes by, that cost per mile should gradually drop, as long as I don't have to sink any major repairs into it.
For $130, I can go about 1600 miles in my Echo...I am surprised at the large difference (because yours is diesel) even if your truck is an HD.
I am encouraged to see some of the most recent comments in here. Americans have always started and ended their buying considerations with the initial price of the vehicle, which is dumb when you consider that running costs over 5 or more years will often outweigh the initial MSRP (and pretty much always will if you finance) and can vary significantly depending on the vehicle you choose.
Now with $4 gas in the mix, gas will often be the biggest single component of those after-purchase costs, regardless of whether you are looking at keeping the vehicle 50K miles or 500K miles.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Do you think that range was an optimum? is that range with the AC on which you might want? or how about with the headlights and stereo on? I bet that 100+ mile range was also at a slower speed than you're highway speed in AZ too.
And as batteries age they will hold less and less of a charge, so you may find your range drops a few miles every year.
To me that vehicle is nothing more than an intra-city car.
First, Shell offers 5% back if you have a Shell card. At a buck a gallon, who cares, but at $4 per gallon you're talking about 20 cents off per gallon.
Second, prices vary by region. Around me, Shell is no more expensive than Exxon, Texaco, or any other name brand for that matter.
When you put the two together, Shell is often the cheapest.
Example. I was in Laurel, MD yesterday. Costco had the cheapest gas prices - $3.15. Shell was actually 2nd cheapest, $3.24.
However, with the 5% rebate factored in, Shell gas actually costs $3.08 per gallon, i.e. Shell is the cheapest gas in town!
Cheaper than Costco! And Costco charges membership fees.
Just cave in and get the card, dude! The more expensive gas gets, the more valuable the Shell card is.
I look at purchase price, operating costs, and ROI. My 2005 Ram 3500 would have been $5000 cheaper had I purchased the Hemi. But the current wholesale price (trade-in value) is actually $6500 greater with the diesel after 3 years and nearly 60,000 miles. So my engine alone has actually increased in value by $1500. Then factor the better mileage with the diesel, and I'm pretty satisfied with my decision.
kcram - Pickups Host
Well if I wanted and EV I would get one of these. It also has a full electric and if it's as fun to drive as it looks then I will definitely buy one. Cars are so boring nowadays and I think this is the answer and what with 100mpg for the hybrid you can't go wrong!
http://www.flytheroad.com/
Click on the video links. I am very serious, I will buy one of these if it gets 100mpg, is reliable and is as fun to drive as it seems. Oh and it's protected from the rain, so that's a bonus. Too bad i don't know if it has a heater, but if it does I can probably get 9 months use out of it! :shades:
No, those concerns are valid and I would really need a longer range before I'd plunk a deposit down on one of these Mitsubishi i-MIEV's. But I am really the most impressed with this electric car from Mitsubishi than any other one I've seen so far. I will need to watch the battery development and see if range can be improved by the time the cars are available. Even if range does improve I just acquired our '08 Lancer GTS last March '07, so, Uncle Sam would have to be offering some fantastic tax rebtes or something on these rigs to make the idea attractive sooner. I really don't see that happening, although a Boeing workmate bought a 2001 Toyota Prius and received a $2,000 rebate from the Federal Guv-Mint back for it. So these things do happen and can happen.
tiff c, wow, that is an interesting looking cycle-car you got there. That looks fairly promising, but are you at all worried about safety concerns driving one of those? The only bike I've ever owned was a Honda 70 trail bike during the early 70's, so I'm not much motorcycle savvy. But that design looks well-presented and well-thought out and looks to offer great gas mileage and an enclosed environment for travelling in. Are you interested in buying one perhaps?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
22.5k pounds. What's that in dollars?
Kind of a high priced toy... That would have paid for my Seqouia Limited and 4 years worth of gas at the current price. It will have to be around $12k to sell in the USA. The Insight was more practical and it never sold well at half that price. You can buy a plushed out Camry Hybrid and enough gas to go around the World more than 10 times.
iluvmysephia1, if you figure that has a range of 120 miles for the electric version and 100mpg for the hybrid. I'd say that's tough to beat and the rear of the vehicle is always planted on the ground. It's on the cab that tilts.
For me I will wait and see how well they are built and how safe they truly are and you can be sure the magazines will beat the snot out of them in testing them.
I bet the first 2 years will be fully sold out.
If one was available right now and I liked it on a test drive I would literally buy one tomorrow.
Of course it won't replace my Si, or rather my wifes Si. We looked at trading the Si in on a Prius but they gave us a bad price. My wife was crying that she didn't want to give up her Civic. Needless to say we are keeping the Civic.
I still get 25mpg combined if driven normally and it's not broken it yet.
The Venture looks like a thrill ride and sure the snow months are brutal but so what, a smart car also has trouble in the snow.
I think the Venture would be in my driveway if I could buy it now. :shades:
I think the electric version might be pretty cool as well but useless for me as i need extendable range ie: Gas.
You won't see me on a normal motorcycle, I don't get into that any more, too much sun baking you and you freeze and get wet as well. :sick:
Oh and it has a reverse gear!
Lots of options for the future!
22.5k pounds. What's that in dollars?
Yeah cool, eh? You just know James Bond will get one eventually!
The Hybrid on the home page estimates about $20K USD not Pounds Sterling. The Carver is about that but not the Venture.
I think $20K or so is reasonable.
For me it'd be a great 9 month commuter and toy.
I thought the rig in the video was the one we were talking about.
Kind of a high priced toy... That would have paid for my Sequoia Limited and 4 years worth of gas at the current price. It will have to be around $12k to sell in the USA. The Insight was more practical and it never sold well at half that price. You can buy a plushed out Camry Hybrid and enough gas to go around the World more than 10 times.
Actually they estimate about $20K USD and I think that's doable and eventually prices will drop. But the Carver is around $40K and that's because it's hand built.
A big company could pump them out with enough volume. I see it as more competition with a Honda Goldwing than anything else and those are easily $20K.
Drive around the world enclosed and getting 100mpg is pretty good too!
I thought the rig in the video was the one we were talking about.
The videos are of the Carver which the Venture is based on. The Venture has 1 or 2 videos as well.
It might very well be sold in the US as the website claims. If this company has the backers it claims it's a possibility.
It will be sold as a motorcycle as it would be impossible as a car. But it's really not a car or a motorcycle. It's a true Hybrid.
The specs on the Venture which licenses the Carver technology are on the main page.
Videos are mixed Carver and Venture.
I will sign up for one as soon as possible. The Can-Am spyder is just too outside for me but cool as well and a trike.
I did not watch all the way through all the videos. I had seen some of those a while back. It is a cool concept. Not very practical for me as a grocery hauler.
I think we could see one in a couple of years but hard to say as the Tesla was supposed to be out a long time back. I think this will take less time, but who really knows.
As far a a grocery getter I think it's as practical as a Goldwing Motorcycle or a Smart car or a combo of both. But it won't replace your SUV nor is it intended to. My Civic So does all that I need a car to do and if I need more space. I'll rent a Uhaul van for $20 a day. :shades:
I don't work on my own home and panel walls or anything big so it's easier for me than do-it-yourselfers.
I still want one and I'm hoping sooner than later.
I'm driving a Smart car tomorrow so we'll see.
CNN
Now if ONLY automakers would take the same message seriously!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am really going to be checking for updates on the Mitsubishi i-MIEV as it's development moves along. They have a very smart design and have been working on it for a long while...I just have a sneaking suspicion that as the decision to market the all-electric model in the States becomes reality in the next year or year and a half, that Mitsubishi's battery supplier and Mitsu itself will find a safe way to extend that range. I mean, it's almost there right now for me and if I can find plug-in locations where I like to cruise regularly(a little foot and phone work there, uh-huh)a i-MIEV could work out for us. Very tentative though at this point, for sure, for sure, man.
I can't seem to figure out why, humm...but I have this great desire to get out of ICE rigs completely. What might be driving that idea, anyway? Pardon the pun. :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
So I lost a hot truck, in a great color, with next to no mileage on it, and traded it in at $2.75 a gallon gas on this tiny car, that I do like...except for the mileage..and the bald tires at 7,400 miles!
At $4.00 a gallon. IF they EVER get the SMART car here,...and not have a waiting list to buy one. And bring the price down to earth...THAT is my next car.
Europe got it right decades ago. Now if all these 'soccer moms' would stop driving those huge SUV's they cant even see out of, to go buy a gallon of milk, and pick up their brats at a field a mile away....make them walk!
And teen boys would stop buying huge SUV's and other V-8 cars, the boys need to prove they are men by driving huge V-8's to compensate for something else? If they would stop buying V-8's, and the car companies would STOP make the huge SUV's, the sales would drop and the ywould be force to invent fun and fast and fuel efficent cars. Like Honda does, like Mercedes does, with the SMART car, THEN we will help the situation.
SMART car...here I come!!!
I looked at the Smart TwoFor in Victoria BC. I really thought it would be a practical little car. Sadly we are getting a gas guzzling version. It will be lucky to get 35 MPG. The diesel version that sells so well in Canada is rated at 70 MPG. Some claim to get up to 90 MPG. Again we are screwed by the regulators in this country that feed at the oil company trough.
If I were you I'd take that Aveo in to a repair shop that knows what they're doing and have it checked out, because you should NOT be getting 15-17 mpg. Unless you're spending an awful lot of time idling.
Now to be fair, the Aveo is not a very efficient car for its class. I think for the most part, they're about as economical as your typical midsized 4-cyl...Accord, Camry, Altima, etc. But 15-17 mpg is more on par with some V-8 SUVs!
That is exactly what I get in the comfort of my Sequoia. I own a large SUV because there is SO LITTLE gain in being cramped into a mini SUV. When I can get a PU or SUV that gets 35+ MPG I will buy one. None available in this third world country.
F150 ( 135K ) ==> Prius ..business vehicle
Mustang GT ===> Prius .. primary family car
CLK 320 ======> Prius
Corolla ( totalled ) => Corolla
First driver ===> Yaris 5M
F250 =======> Prius
Taurus ======> Yaris 4AT
Camry ======> Camry Hybrid
It will be interesting later today to see what the industry numbers are but I'm guessing trucks and SUVs are going to take a horrendous pounding.
...And teen boys would stop buying huge SUV's and other V-8 cars, the boys need to prove they are men by driving huge V-8's to compensate for something else?"
Yes, it would be nice if folks made a choice to get a better mpg car, but it is still a choice and it's their choice. Not for anyone else to make. If they are willing to pay for the gas (without complaining about the price), then more power to them. And let's drop the whole "compensate for something" diatribe. That's getting ridiculous. Slamming people for exercising the freedom of choice by questioning their genital size is a bit "teenish" in and of itself, isn't it?
The reason for driving V8 cars is plain and simple fun. If you are not a gear head, it probably won't make sense, but anyone that is understands the fun and sportyness of acceleration whether it's a car, motorcycle, snowmobile, or whatever.
Full disclosure: I do have a truck with a V8. But I use it like a truck at least once a week. I also drive it back and forth to work (9 miles one-way), but I get 20mpg and it's paid off in a couple months. If I traded it in, I'd have another car payment and I can buy a LOT of gas with that. I bring my lunch to work so I don't have to drive to lunch. If I don't have one, I walk the mile to the nearest food place rather than drive. I combine my grocery store, hardware store, etc. into a once a week drive to town (10 miles one way and the opposite way from work).
I also ride a motorcycle to work any sunny day over 30 degrees F. and get 40mpg or 65mpg depending on which one. Should I slam you for not trading in that gas guzzling Aveo for a motorcycle to get better mileage? I wouldn't even think of it. My wife's car also gets over 30mpg and we use that when possible. So I probably do more than a lot of people to conserve and use less fuel in a month than most people driving an econo car. So when you see someone driving around a truck or SUV, think twice about grouping them into some stereotype because you don't know their situation. They might be using way less gas a month than you.
And blaming the teens for V8s? I think you are thinking more of my generation. The current crop of "go fast" teens are mostly about I4s with twin turbos and intercoolers on smaller, lighter cars. Though there are plenty in the younger generations that can still appreciate the "old school" pony car with a big block V8, I think that many teens today see them as old technology, clunky, etc. Besides, most teens can't afford new. They are buying used cars so they are not influencing the new car sales at all and new car sales are what influence the manufactures. Totally misplaced blaming teens.
"If they would stop buying V-8's, and the car companies would STOP make the huge SUV's, the sales would drop and the would be force to invent fun and fast and fuel efficient cars"
You are correct. Supply and demand. If everyone stopped buying certain vehicles, manufacturers would adjust their car and truck lines accordingly. But it's a free market and it is only the majority of buyers that can effect it. As you do, I want folks to think about buying more economical vehicles on their next scheduled trade-in. They should have the facts and info, but then make the decision that is right for them. I'm against any type of mandate, government pressure, and even peer pressure. To each their own.
...That being said, I will give friends a lot of good-humored grief if they complain the slightest about gas prices while driving a gas hog vehicle or driving in a gas wasting manner (jack rabbit starts, speeding, etc.). They have no room to complain if they don't take personal responsibility for choosing the vehicle they do, especially if they have recently traded for a different gas hog, knowing the current trend in fuel prices.
By the way, the 08 Chevy Corvette, with a 6.2 Liter V8 is rated at 26mpg hwy. A 08 Honda Accord Sedan with 3.5 Liter V6 is rated at 29mpg hwy. Not exactly a huge difference.
Buick LaCrosse:
21 City 29 Hwy
My Mom has an Aveo. I have no idea what fuel economy she is getting. It is a surprisingly roomy car for a tiny econobox.
And teen boys would stop buying huge SUV's and other V-8 cars, the boys need to prove they are men by driving huge V-8's to compensate for something else? If they would stop buying V-8's, and the car companies would STOP make the huge SUV's, the sales would drop and the ywould be force to invent fun and fast and fuel efficient cars.
I see you want to tell us what to choose for transportation and how weI should use it, so I'll do the same. If you live in the city (which you must to get the kind of mileage your reporting with your Aveo) take public transportation. Your Aveo is getting economy comparable to my Suburban.
I'm not going to put my family in a Smart Car. Sorry, we have places to go and things to do AS A FAMILY. We tow our boat and our camper and my wife and I spend quality time with our 9 & 5 year old daughters and their friends. We also entertain our friends and their kids, so it's not uncommon for us to have 8 in our Suburban on the weekends. Try that in a Smart Car.
If I had a long commute everyday, I can see the benefits of a Smart type of vehicle, but I don't, so buying an additional more fuel efficient vehicle would be a complete waste of money.
I'll assume you don't have kids, with your comments. This morning my 9 year old missed the bus (it was my fault as I over slept). Sorry, but I'm not going to make a 9 year old girl walk 2 miles down a busy state HWY w/o sidewalks. So I got in line with many other parents letting my enviroment destroying SUV idle for 10 minutes to drop my daughter off. BTW, most of the other parents had Minivans. Which I would have if I didn't want to tow.
Sorry but SUVs aren't going away. Their sales will surely decline, but their are plenty of us who own RVs, boat, and have large families that need/want what a SUV offers.
Thank you. While like most people, I don't like the increased gas prices, but I don't complain either. So it takes $80-90 to fill my Suburban up and another $120 or so to fill the boat. That's my problem and we easily afford it. It seems it bothers others that I spend so much on a fill up than it does me. My avg. monthly gas bill is usually around $300. We don't have any vehicle payments, so our fuel bill is a non-issue.
A couple weeks ago, my coworker traded an '04 Tundra on an '09 Corolla. Last week, he was having a bit of buyer's remorse. He has a boat that, with the trailer and everything, weighs about 4,000 pounds, and he probably tows it twice per week. He was thinking that he should have thought it through a bit better, and compromised on a vehicle that was more efficient than his Tundra, but could still tow the boat. Then I reminded him that his family also has a Sequoia. "Oh, but that's the wife's!" :confuse:
It's funny what people will do when they don't think things through. Then sometimes situations changes. Several years ago when I sold my 50mpg 2000 Jetta TDI. The guy who bought it had just sold his Dodge Ram. He had just started a new job as a mechanical engineer and had a 50 mile one way commute. Since he really didn't need the utility of the truck, he sold it and bought my Jetta.
I have neighbor that traded a late '90s Jeep Grand Cherokee for a '07 new Toyota Sequoia (they have a boat to tow). For some reason they felt it would use to much gas, so they traded it in on a used Toyota Sequia along with purhcasing a used Toyota Corrola. As they were telling me this story, I didn't dare ask how much it actually cost them to try to save some gas money. I guess if their main goal was to save fuel then they succeded.
23 y.o. making $50K+ annually and impeccable credit. He had positive equity in his 250 because he sold it outright and bought the Prius the following day. His other two vehicles (!!) are a beach-runner and a cycle. Smart kid.
An additional anecdote...a 10 month-old M6 (!) for a Hybrid Highlander. After taking a $30K hit for depreciation he received in return a new loaded HH and a check for $25000.
$20k does bring it back down to earth. At that cost it's competing with a base Solistice, Sky, or a Miata.
I'm shopping for recent, used 06 Miatas and they're around $17k. That should be their target.
To be honest I still think I'd get the Miata.
Yep, it's amazing how many people make knee-jerk decisions without realizing how much it's really costing them. Now, if their ONLY purpose is to cut down on gas consumption, no matter how much it costs them, I salute them for being willing to spend so much money to use less gas. Most people, though, either need to, or prefer to, make the decision based on cost savings. And, as many have realized, it's cheaper to keep their paid off vehicle and pay to use more gas than it is for them to buy a new vehicle with better mileage. Same for buying a second vehicle to save money. And often, even paying the extra for hybrid technology vs. the same vehicle in non-hybrid form. The math just doesn't add up to money savings. Only gallons-of-gas savings.
I give a lot of credit to anyone that has done the math a makes a conscious decision to spend the extra money to save some gas. If money was no object, I'd definitely do the same thing. I would actually love to have a Prius as a daily driver instead of my truck, but it would cost us way too much money to do that. I'll be looking at doing that once my truck is so old it isn't reliable daily transportation and is relegated to the occasional towing or hauling duty, but that will be at least another 5 years (it's only 5 years old now).
I put so few miles on my truck each year, even driving a Prius would only save me about 25 gallons a month. At $4/gallon, that would be only $100/mnth. Not enough to make a dent in another car payment much less insurance and maintenance. At $8/gallon, that's still only $200/month. Gas will probably hit that about the time I'm ready to buy another vehicle in 5 years, and hopefully there will be something out there that gets a lot better mileage than the current Prius.
If folks are going to be trading in a vehicle anyway, that is a good time to look at a more fuel-economical vehicle. But adding another car or trading in just for the sake of fuel economy will tend to only make sense for those that put on a LOT of miles per month or have the expendable money to do so.
If a person doesn't have to tow or haul really heavy loads, there are actually quite a few cars out there that will tow 1,500 or even 3,000 lbs, so buying a little flat-bed trailer, with which to haul, is a good option to replace a pickup.
In my case, I got a used Miata. It cost me only $7800, and is still worth $4-5000 today, 8 years later. So depreciation is negligable.
Insurance does cost me about $500 every 6 months or so, but...
* it has kept the miles off my newer cars that would have depreciated more
* it uses slightly less gas (very minor part of the overall benefit, admittedly)
* I have a spare car that my brother used when he visited
* I had a spare car when one of them was in the body shop for 3 weeks
Mostly, though, it allows you to get a car that's special-purpose.
The Miata is fun, you can drop the top when it's warm. It's easy to park, good on gas, nimble around town, and fits in tiny parking spots.
If my other vehicle was an Expedition those would be HUGE advantages for a commute to the city like mine.
I'm not saying I disagree with your assertion that buying a $25k Accord to save $10/week on gas is ridiculous, because it is.
All I'm saying is that having an extra car can yield several benefits, the least of which is saving gas.
Very true, I'd love to have a convertible like your Miata or some other fun type of car that I could drive around town, have fun in etc. But in our case, we have limited parking and having a boat, RV, and SUV and 1 Car is enough. Hmm, I like the Miata Idea though, they are fun cars.