Are gas prices fueling your pain?

circlew

I can't even remember $3.75 gas! My refrigerator is almost barren now! How come I can't loose any weight yet...soon!

Regards,
OW

snakeweasel

Disregard if done already. For a 2-3 hour view, afternoon or evening, of the most spectacular skyline in the world, try Odyssey cruise boat (at Navy Pier) on Lake Michigan. Cruise has dinner/drinks option.

If your in that area take a trip and get some food at Billys Goats, its right near where the boats dock.

A few months ago, read that Illinois Governor made provision for those of senior age (65+) to ride free on Chicago buses, EL trains subway. Pretty good deal for them.

He got pretty well critizied for that. Not to many people thought that was a good ideal since there wasn't enough money to run the system with seniors paying. People down state were really PO'd at him since they will be paying tax money for people 250 miles away to ride around free.

dave8697

the airlines are in trouble. the world oil consumption has risen 12 million barrels a day in the last 7 years, Since 9-11. Speculators are primarily to blame for most of the run up beyond $80. The consumption will rise by 28 million barrels a day in the next 24 years. Meanwhile US imports have fallen from 10 to 9 million barrels a day in the last year. So for every American trading the V8 for a V6 or the V6 for an L4, Four people climb high enough up the economic ladder of success in places like China that they go buy the first car their family has ever had, and 4 Chinese Entreprenaurs head for the Mercedes Dealer in their L4 car. These are turbulent economic times. Americans have been stupid with their money with real estate and are now suffering. Will OPEC sellers buy stuff on margin with their profits and when the bubble bursts have to sell and get foreclosed? I bet they are not as dumb as we were with our American home equity bubble of money. I bet they are paying with cash.

I see the reciepts left at gas stations. People are buying 5 or 6 gallons per visit. The media is underplaying the real drop in use in this country. If OPEC already owns the media, that would explain it. I know a Saudi Shiek owns 33% of FOX.

darken812

First off, I want to say that we were told years ago that crude oil would be gone by 2009, I guess they weren't wrong.
So what to do, when you want to remain independent & not wait an hour or two for a bus?
Don't go to drastic measures, they only work if you keep applying them. Use your head. Time is money, & will always be so.
Speed limits under 60 are fine, if you have all day to get there. There are many ways not to use your vehicle. I've seen few people offer insight on using it (other than packing it with other people).
I recently bought a better air filter, & as soon as I get passed the 5,000 mile mark, will change my oils to something more driver/world friendly. No, I'm not going to be able to "bank" the savings, but I will continue on with my life, as I choose, & be smart about it.

Next, buy the grade of gas your vehicle needs. Don't buy cheapest amount. I gain 2 mpg buying mid grade for my Kia, over economy. I've been doing this for years. Soon, gas blends won't matter, but they still do, use it.
I learned this years ago in my Spitfire, which wanted 108 octane minimum, in a, at best 98 octane country. My motorcycle could only use premium gas, yet my friend's minivan wasted mid grade. My Lebaron pissed through economy & super, but loved mid grade.
The bottom line is to keep your vehicle in tune. Retard your distributor if you can or are using a lessor product. You can run on alcohol, but you have to time the engine for it.
Finally; Gas with MTBE's (white gas) even state that you'll have 5% less economy. So figure out what you're using. Picture it like this. You want a steak dinner, & they bring you a cold hamburger. It's still beef, but not what you wanted.
Additional note: Your dealership will & can install performance & gas saving devices for you w/o voiding your warranty! The resale value will increase as well. That's what I'm doing, but I'm doing it for me, not the resale value.

One more word, as a note. Can your key turn on your vehicle on the first touch?
No windey windey, no thumpa thumpa. I don't want to hear that it's "inhearent in these motors". That's bull! You turn the key, it starts. If not, you're not tuned.
The moment we have fire, we have explosion (running in the case of engines). If your key goes past accessories, it should be running. If it's not, you aren't tuned.
Don't rely on my words, post & ask anyone else. I don't care if you're running a lawn mower.

I hope this helps.

newdavidq

I keep hearing the phrase "We use 25% of the world's oil but are only 5% of the world's population"., but few mention that we produce about 25% of the world's Gross Domestic Product (GDP). China and India together account for about a third of our output. I think its fair to say that we have been and are a greater force for good in the world than those two countries. So, what's wrong with our driving a few more cars and burning a few more gallons of gasoline while we still can?
Public transportation is only viable in urban situations; the country is too large. The car is here to stay and we must concentrate on doing everything possible to economize in this area. I've added 5 lbs pressure to my tires, accelerate slowly, anticipate stops etc and have added about 4-5 mpg to my truck's mileage (which I need for work.)
And incidentally, the river cruise in Chicago is a great way to spend some time. You can also rent kayaks (and Segways and bikes if you want to stay on shore).
DQ

xrunner2

If your in that area take a trip and get some food at Billys Goats, its right near where the boats dock.

Is that the place of, "Cheeburger, Cheeburger, Cheeburger, Pepsi-no Coke"?

vchiu

>How much longer do you think that China will be able to subsidize gas/energy prices?

We could say that is the one billion USD question.
Car industry is growing very fast and is representing millions of well paid jobs, hence huge tax revenue and direct/indirect economic activity. Everyone in China dreams to have a car and how far people are ready to go for it is beyond my imagination.

China being not a democracy, the govt must purchase its legitimacy. They just can not or are not willing to educate people into the true cost of gas. Car lobby is already too powerful.

the recent price increase is a conservative adjustment to $140 a barrel, but no room was added so any further barrel increase means govt companies paying for the difference.

Even if managed to break even by increasing sticker price quicker, I consider not adding a serious gas tax a kind of subsidy. I speculate that we won't see any such tax before at least 5 years, while it is possible sticker prices will evolve a bit quicker to limit hard losses.

> also believe these countries that are encouraging the expansion of automobile use and oil consumption are making a big long term mistake.

It is going to hurt everybody. We are just , only just, starting to see a tip of it.

tedebear

So you think that gas is going to stay at $4 a gallon?

Some of us are still waiting for it to get there. $3.99 was the highest I've ever seen it locally. It was back down to $3.87 today.

vchiu

>On Tuesday, followed a full size bus for a few miles, heading from a rural town toward a mid-size town about 15 miles away.

I have trouble associating buses with mass transit. Imho this is the cheaper end of a real mass transit system where heavy rail would be the backbone and light rail plays an arterial role. Gas/Diesel/GNV buses are good to complement those but can't be a backbone by themselves unless dealing with a small city.
The problem of buses is that they share the very same roads than other cars and trucks so they face the same limitations of speed and traffic.

In Germany, most cities above 200K inhabitants have at least a railway station and some electric light rail. reaching 1 million will likely make a subway possible.
Greater distances in the US demand that the problem be addressed differently, but there are many situation where higher populated areas would justify the investment.

snakeweasel

Is that the place of, "Cheeburger, Cheeburger, Cheeburger, Pepsi-no Coke"?

No in their own words:

andre1969

just how much of a pain in the backside buses and trains can be. My roommate is going back to Detroit to visit his friends and family. He figured he'd take the train, but waited until the last minute to get his reservation. There's only one train that leaves DC in that direction per day, and I think the closest it gets him is Toledo, Ohio. Well, that train was all booked up. I told him to look into leaving from Baltimore. He did, but it turns out it was the same danged train! It goes from Baltimore to DC, and then on out west. Well, I'm going up to Pennsylvania tomorrow for a car show, and I told him to check out Harrisburg. As it turns out, you guessed it, it's the same. damn. train! :mad:

He also looked into taking a bus, but that would've been about $200 round trip. And since there wouldn't be anyone around to give him a ride, he would have had to take a taxi into DC, which I'm sure wouldn't be cheap. I think the bus ride would've been 12-13 hours, and the train was about the same. Geeze, I think you can drive it in 9-10!

Anyway, he decided on flying. It was about $300. Gets him out there in under two hours. Only down-side is that his flight leaves at 6:10, and I have to get up at 4 to take him up there. I have a feeling tomorrow's gonna be a loooong day!

Just for kicks, I did a rough estimate on what it would cost to drive out there. It's about 540 miles. My Intrepid can get about 30 mpg on the highway if I don't push it too hard. Still, at around $4.10/gal for 87 octane, it would cost about $150 just in fuel to drive out there and back.

nippononly

Lucky you. Where I am we are well into month 4 of $4.50 gas.

One good hurricane (but looks like it won't be Bertha thank goodness. What a name for a hurricane!) and we might yet see spikes to $5+ before Labor Day.

vchiu

>There's only one train that leaves DC in that direction per day!

This frequency may be found on some little railways stations deep in French countryside. This shows how train transport is abandoned to oblivion in the US.
Standard frequency should be 1 train per hour.

>Anyway, he decided on flying
this basically represents about 4 hours and I am not sure the transit time from airport to final destination is included or not.
High speed train would reasonably take 3 hours, adding the transit time from and to railway station, which makes a draw.

To throw in comparisons with prices in Europe, Paris to Marseilles (800 km = 500 miles) would take about 8 hours by car. Return cost for gas and toll would be 315 Euros (as calculated by mappy.fr)
Otoh we could expect return high speed train ticket price to be around 200 Euros for 3 hours journey time.
Taking the train is definitely interesting for one person, while for 2, driving is a bit cheaper if we don't count extra cost (dining), while the difference between 3 hours train and 8 hours drive is a matter of personal tastes.

andre1969

This frequency may be found on some little railways stations deep in French countryside. This shows how train transport is abandoned to oblivion in the US.
Standard frequency should be 1 train per hour.

Oh it gets better. My friend could take the train directly to Detroit if he wanted to. The only problem is, he would have to go to Chicago first and then transfer, and go back to Detroit. I think that stretched the trip out from 13 hours or so to more like 20-21! Amazing. I mean, this sounds more like the Hooterville Cannonball than American rail travel in the 21st century! Or, you can get off the train in Toledo and take a bus to Detroit, which is quicker, but adds about $100. So suddenly, that $200 train ride is up to $300.

this basically represents about 4 hours and I am not sure the transit time from airport to final destination is included or not. High speed train would reasonably take 3 hours, adding the transit time from and to railway station, which makes a draw.

Well, I left the house at around 4:30 to get him to the airport, and his flight left around 6:10. I think it touches down around 7:50 in Detroit. And by the time he gets his luggage and gets picked up, I'd guess it could very well be 9:00 by the time he actually gets to where he's staying. So yeah, total trip time is at least 4 hours.

Still, to get him to Union Station in DC to catch the train or bus, it would probably take me about a half hour to get down there and drop him off. How far ahead of time do you have to arrive if you're taking a bus or train? Is it similar to flying, where they tell you to get there at least an hour early?

As an aside, I had to fill up my Intrepid on the way to the airport, as it was getting pretty low. Paid $4.079 per gallon at the local Shell. It gulped down about 14.7 gallons, and averaged about 23.5 mpg. Total bill came out to around $57. That's for about 16 days worth of driving though, so I guess it's not as bad as it sounds.

I'm about to repeat the process though, with a '79 New Yorker that I'm taking to a Chrysler show. I want a full tank before I hit the highways. I have a feeling that fill-up's gonna be painful! :surprise:

michaellno

My wife and I, and another couple, are traveling to Steamboat Springs this weekend for the Balloon Festival. It's about 180 miles from our town to Steamboat, but each couple is taking their own car - we're taking our VUE and the other couple have the new style Santa Fe.

We figure it'll be two tanks of gas for the weekend - about $100. The local station here in town raised prices over the 4th of July weekend and RUG is now at $3.95/gal. I'm almost certain it will be over $4/gal where we're going - the mountain towns in Colorado are always more expensive than the urban areas.

To offset the price of the gas, we're staying at an Inn that has a kitchenette so we can prepare some of our meals and avoid going out to restaurants.

lemko

From the Philadelphia newspaper:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080711_One_Last_Thing__U_S__citizens__g- as_money_fueling_Mideast_s_boom.html

avalon02wh

More disinformation from the general press. Most of U.S. oil imports do not come from the Mideast.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imp- orts/current/import.html

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)

YTD 2008, Middle East, Other
CANADA ---- 1846
SAUDI ARABIA 1519 ----
MEXICO ---- 1471
NIGERIA ---- 1089
VENEZUELA ---- 1070
IRAQ 693 ----
ANGOLA ---- 556
ALGERIA ---- 495
BRAZIL ---- 174
KUWAIT 218 ----
ECUADOR ---- 200
COLOMBIA ---- 100
CHAD ---- 76
RUSSIA ---- 137
LIBYA ---- 56
Total 2430 7270

About 25% of the imports are from the Middle East.

The writer goes on to say; "All this adds up to a decline in our standard of living and a huge write-down of American wealth. "

Yeah, and we are doing it to ourselves. We are all making selfish decisions. The people in the M.E. are not putting a gun to our head telling us to buy that vehicle that gets 13 mpg.

This is another example of how individuals will make decisions to a large degree in their own self interest. Yet, we complain bitterly if the government tries to impose a CAFE standard, increase the gasoline tax, or suggest we conserve... Didn't Phil Gramm just say "We've sort of become a nation of whiners."

Indeed. :shades:

gagrice

Thank you for correcting the error. So many just think all the oil comes from one spigot. We also get a lot of refined product from the EU that has a surplus of gasoline. Too bad they use so much diesel. Not sure how much refined product comes down from Canada as well.

Didn't Phil Gramm just say "We've sort of become a nation of whiners."

Yes he did and the Left was not happy. So McCain had to distance himself from another friend. Seems when politicians tell the truth the media do not want to hear it.

imidazol97

Gramm was right. We complain about things and want government to fix it for us--free because it's from the gov'nmt. $500,000 mortgage on $60,000 salary--no problem. Oooops, interest rate went up; complain and maybe gov'nmnt will give me my house free.

Someone recently said we're in a mental recession. For most of us we are afraid of spending so we hold back. We also are told by the media relentlessly how bad it is. So we haven't been spending (me and my spouse and son) like we normally would. We are impacting the others who have lost jobs.

So we're currently shopping for carpet and a third car again.

If it follows the Bush 1 pattern the economy will be terrible (not starting to improve) through the election and soon as a Democrat (Clinton) is elected the media will start soft talking and tell how wonderful the outlook is becoming.

fintail

We complain because the banks who pay souless coward Gramm's meal ticket allowed people with a 60K income to buy a 500K house, and now we are all paying for it.

Liberal media conspiracy at work again? :P

gagrice

I think if you dig deep enough into that mortgages to those that should not have them, it was just as many Democrats pushing for it as Republicans. Gramm is doing what most do when they leave Congress. They become lobbyist. That way they can still have lunch with their old buddies and write it off.

Did you see who he beat in his first bid for the Senate. Our friend Ron Paul.

I say get rid of em all. I will vote for NO incumbent.

Unless they promise to sell me gas for under 2 bucks :shades:

jae5

"...I think if you dig deep enough into that mortgages to those that should not have them, it was just as many Democrats pushing for it as Republicans..."

I'm in total agreement; this seems to get lost repeatedly. Dems blaming Repubs and vice-versa when all were drinking from the fountain of false wealth and gluttony.

Whatever happened to "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."? Just keeps ringing in my ears and I wasn't even born when Kennedy made the speech.

Sorry for the side-track.

fintail

Both sides let the banks buy their souls...and nobody will dare go after the banks, as they have had reigns on the American national direction since the Fed was created.

Gramm has no right to be so sanctimonious and loud. Get rid of them in many ways.

fezo

I accept Gramm's thought that we whine too much but the man is everything that is wrong with the country. Bought and paid for many times over. This is the author of the Enron loophole so when you are paying $4 for your gallon of gas rest assured a good buck or two of that is thanks to Phil Gramm.

fintail

Exactly

If there were less Phil Gramm's in the world, we wouldn't whine so much.

tpe

I say get rid of em all. I will vote for NO incumbent.

Unless they promise to sell me gas for under 2 bucks

I will vote for no incumbent unless they promise to keep gas above $4/gallon.

snakeweasel

If it follows the Bush 1 pattern the economy will be terrible (not starting to improve) through the election and soon as a Democrat (Clinton) is elected the media will start soft talking and tell how wonderful the outlook is becoming.

Pretty much the opposite of what happened in 2000.

snakeweasel

We complain because the banks who pay souless coward Gramm's meal ticket allowed people with a 60K income to buy a 500K house, and now we are all paying for it.

Tell me what kindof gun did those banks use to force those people to take out those mortgages?

Lets put the blame where it really is ok.

fintail

No-kay

The people will end up paying the price...as usual the overpaid irresponsible corporate cowards will not. The latter deserve a lot more blame than they currently receive - ok?

One has to wonder why personal finance is virtually not taught - other than in the most remedial forms - in the American public K-12 system. Could it be intentional? I wonder who would lobby for such a thing.

avalon02wh

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080711/ap_on_he_me/auto_deaths_gas_prices_2;_ylt=An- yYOLZGxvQlXNgVp_SniJaAsnsA

So much for population control.

Actually the study authors failed to consider that as gasoline goes past $10 a gallon people will start shooting each other over petrol, thus increasing the deaths.

imidazol97

I heard tonight about how the banks were threatened by rights groups to give mortgages to illegals or the groups were going to sue. It sounded like this was being encourage by congress. Now some of those loans are worthless.

stever

Anyone want to talk about gas prices or are we about done in here?

1stpik

We're about done. Time to shut it down.

trichardson

Um...they're high?

tedebear

Um...they're high?

Yes indeed. I noticed it went back up to $3.99 on my way to work this afternoon. That's about the third time it has hit that mark but never higher. It usually drifts back down to around $3.88 over the course of a week and then jumps back to $3.99.

Yesterday I warned some relatives that they'd better top off the tank because I sensed that it was ready for a jump. I was right. Wish I could predict the stock market like this.

Perhaps the oil companies think that if gas goes over $4/gal in St. Louis it will trigger some catastrophic event.

kdhspyder

About 25% of the imports are from the Middle East.

The writer goes on to say; "All this adds up to a decline in our standard of living and a huge write-down of American wealth. "

Yeah, and we are doing it to ourselves. We are all making selfish decisions. The people in the M.E. are not putting a gun to our head telling us to buy that vehicle that gets 13 mpg.

On the face of it we don't actually send 'most' of our money to the ME in fact it goes to our neighbors and a large part to SA. However since oil is a fungible product, our massive usage, viewed another way, means that we actually use 25% of the output of every field on earth. What we buy from Canada and Mexico means that those two countries are taken out of the world market by the volume of our huge purchases. This opens the doors to every other producer, friend or foe, to profit from the run up in prices.

We don't directly pay for all that stuff in the ME but in fact we 'support' the prices that allow them to build it. We do need a lifestyle shake up.

PF_Flyer

We could just go back to straight up reporting with less commentary in Report Your Local Gas Prices Here

Color me as one who doesn't think the constant carping on gloom and doom does any of us any good.

snakeweasel

Color me as one who doesn't think the constant carping on gloom and doom does any of us any good.

Agreed, especially since people have been forecasting gloom and doom for 30 some years and we are still moving along.

mickeyrom

You could not be more right when you wrote that "we're doing it to ourselves" .
All you see on the highways is SUVs, Vans and trucks.As far back as the 60s when I was stationed in London UK,all you ever saw in people's driveways were tiny Morris Minors and their ilk. Can one imagine how much less oil we would use if NOBODY drove vehicles that had V8 or V6 engines and only had 4s?
Just recently one of our friends bought a new Chrysler station wagon,I forget what it's called...my wife asked if she got good gas mileage. The lady replied.."no,but it looked good".This with gas at $4.19 in our town.
I am retired and living on a fixed income, so buying a hybrid is not an option. Thank the deity that we have a car that will get at least 30MPG highway.(KIA Optima 2.4).I wonder how the people in Japan and in Europe do it with gas at 8-10 bucks a gallon. I cannot even imagine that. That means an average fill-up would cost as much as a $100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .By next year, we will be nostagically remembering the good "ole" days of $4 gas. :sick:

mickeyrom

Of all the auto makers,only Chrysler has no real economy cars. The only new vehicles that they have come up with recently have been SUVs.Both are large and basically...gas guzzlers. How will they survive in todays market?

stever

Check out these discussions:

Why don't GM, Chrysler & Ford build high MPG vehicles?

Chrysler Needs To Turn It Around (especially the most recent post)

oldfarmer50

"...Let's put the blame where it really is ok..."

I put the blame on all you dead-beats. Back in the early 80's when I took a look at the 10% and higher mortgages I said "to hell with banks".

I built my house myself as money became available. Took me two years but I never paid a cent in interest.

Now I have enough money to afford to be as poor as I am.

oldfarmer50

"....Now some of those loans are worthless..."

NOW some of those loans are worthless? My guess would be they were all worthless from the start. That's just extortion by these groups.

Only in America.

Did you know that if you buy property in Mexico as a foreigner you have no legal claim to it? The former owner can take it back and have you thrown in jail if you resist. This has happened to some stupid Americans already. :sick:

gagrice

Did you know that if you buy property in Mexico as a foreigner you have no legal claim to it?

There are many parts of Mexico where a US citizen can and do own property. Where it gets sticky is within 25 miles of the coast. Then you are basically buying from the bank that holds the title and you pay a small lease per year. There are now big coastal developments that you can buy with American Title Insurance policy. They are usually in conjunction with a large hotel chain and you are buying lots on their property. Yes there have been cases of people buying land building homes and the courts seizing them and returning to the original owner. It is definitely buyer beware.

Living in Mexico as a retired person can relieve much of the gas pains. The rest of your cost of living should be lower also. Places like Mazatlan and Guadalajara have huge US populations. Just don't plan on working down there. You will be required to show your monthly income to be allowed to stay. Many places are like paradise.

oldfarmer50

"...I noticed it went back up..."

Funny, in my area (New York State) my local station was up to $4.15 for RUG. Over the past week it went down to $4.09.

I have to say my area must be filled with back-yard oil wells. Every day I see a parade of SUVs with only the driver inside doing 10-15mph over the speed limit. Maybe it's because I set my cruise control at 62mph to save gas that I notice it now. :confuse:

oldfarmer50

"...Where it gets sticky is within 25 miles of the coast..."

Why would anyone want to live in Mexico if you didn't have an ocean view? The Mexicans don't even want to live there. That's why so many are leaving.

"...Living in Mexico as a retired person can relieve much of the gas pains..."

Yes, if your car will run on low octane gas. If I was going to retire to another country I would pick Poland. I hear the US dollar still has some clout there and the Polish Ham is supose to be great.

stever

Poland used to be a big destination for US retirees but I haven't much about it lately.

Hard to beat San Miguel de Allende although all the US residents there have caused the property values to go through the roof. Colonial hill town with a great climate not near the coast.

While you go check it out we'll take a vacation in here too, at least until crude pops $175. :shades: