If all those searching for some conspiracy would just look back at their college economics text. When there is a seller and a buyer and a price and the sale is concluded then the market is in balance. No buyers = NO SALE; No sellers = NO SALE.
High prices have caused us to slow down, drive different vehicles and drive less. This has caused some of us to use less fuel but inventories are NOT increasing dramatically creating an overhang. This means that we are using just about everything that's being pumped here and shipped here from the outside. That's good business practices on the producers part and it's good planning on the refiners part but it's not a conspiracy. That's matching supply and demand.
Could the MidEast and/or Canada produce and ship more? Probably somewhat, but why would they. We've shown that we'll pay $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon. We'll probably be willing to pay $4.50 on average next year...then somewhat more in 2010...then somewhat more....................
When I was going to college in San Diego during the late 70's I once filled my car up in Tijuana for 40 cents per gallon. It turned out the octane was about 83 and the car knocked like crazy. Maybe things have changed or maybe modern ECU's can adjust for this lower octane. Anyway, these days will be coming to an end because in the near future Mexico will no longer be an oil exporter and since they aren't exactly rich they won't be able to afford gas subsidies.
I agree that the US is primarily responsible for the drug problem in Mexico. We are the demand and the laws of economics say that where there is a demand a supply will emerge to satisfy that demand. The simple, but far too radical, solution would be for the US to legalize and regulate these drugs like they do for alcohol, which is also drug.
I caught part of a clip on the news the other day about people crossing the border down south to buy gas at quite a large savings. I heard something about having to add an additive, must be octane boost.
When I lived down there in the middle 1990s gas was the same price as San Diego. The people that lived in the subdivision I was in told stories of water in the gas etc. I just did not take the chance. It would probably be fine with diesel. Not sure I would trust their unleaded gas. The only way it seems practical is to have a 100 gallon tank in the bed of your PU and get a good supply of diesel. I sure would not wait 2 hours in line for gas. In 49 years of driving I have NEVER waited more than 3 cars to get fuel. I am not going to start now. That was just recently at Costco. I got in and could not get out. So I waited for those 3 to pump their gas.
A friend has a friend over in Germany who does the same thing - goes to Luxembourg about once a week and buys gas for the car and usually fills up a can, depending on who's watching.
I'm waiting for the feds or states to step in and start fining people bringing excess gas and diesel back to the States for personal consumption or for resale.
They are costing the rest of us money by avoiding payment of fuel/road taxes.
Be tough to police unless they have a tanker truck. What is more annoying to me is the new NAFTA ruling that allows trucks from Mexico access to all points in the States. They fill up their semi down there and travel several hundred miles on our roads with NO tax paid. We have the Feds to thank for that travesty. Some poor soul trying to save a few bucks is not the problem. How are US trucking companies supposed to compete with a trucking company that pays half the price for diesel and NO highway taxes?
You wouldn't have to catch but one or two a day to have a chilling effect on the guys trying to beat the system.
There's been a move afoot to make Mexico join the International Fuel Tax Association, but I don't where that stands. Texas has some permitting requirements in the meantime. (link)
"Anyway, oil prices surged to a new high of over US$145 a barrel on Thursday morning (July 3), just in time to remind Americans driving around in their wasteful sports utility vehicles (SUVs)for the July 4 Independence Day weekend the sheer futility of their lifestyle choices going forward." http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JG04Dj03.html
I think the comment above shows where we are headed in terms of oil wars. The rest of the world has little sympathy for the USA. For one, they see us as "pigs" sucking up 25% of the oil with only 5% of the population.
The biggest irony for me in the news was the recent announcement that the car makers are still fighting the CAFE standards. Sales of gas guzzlers are in the toilet, yet they still don't get it. CAFE is irrelevant, the market/people have spoken. Instead of spending million on lobbyists and lawyers the car makers should be designing cars with more high strength steel and better engines.
The next few years will be interesting to say the least. The IEA is reporting potential refinery shortages worldwide and an overall lack of supply. It is looking more and more like the pain at the pump will be forever.
" they see us as "pigs" sucking up 25% of the oil with only 5% of the population."
We use 25% of the oil because we generate 25% of the world's economic activity. The United States is the largest economy in the world. And that begs the question -- why do countries with much larger populations, and countries that have existed centuries longer than the U.S., lag behind us?
Instead of thinking of us as "pigs," maybe those nations should be asking, "Hey, how did you guys accomplish so much so soon with such a small percentage of the world's population?
And I've noticed that plenty of nations that see us as "pigs" are more than happy to take our foreign aid, especially after a natural disaster strikes. The U.S. gives more money to such causes than any other nation on earth.
I don't think that would be a smart move. Remember Alaska was and is the US first line of defense against a Russian attack. Canada and the US are too closely tied to each other for real conflict. The current thinking is to extend a new pipeline through Canada to the Midwestern USA. That could provide much needed Natural Gas to Middle America.
"Rising gas prices are inspiring drivers to find new ways of protecting themselves against future increases—including buying gas in advance and investing in stocks that tend to rise along with the price of gasoline."
You are right kdhspyder. My wife and I are only considering advanced gas saving car technology such as the Prius, or any of the slew of new types of alternate fuel/energy cars coming out. We cannot afford to wait as gas prices take total advantage of us. We are environmentally conscious as well and have been. Were not treehuggers by any stretch but we want a change and if it improves the lives of everyone including the environment we are prepared to focus our next purchase on a fuel saving vehicle regardless of the lack of power or discomfort due to less space or ammenities the car may have. We realize the gas guzzlin' cars will soon be relics left in junk yards, or recycled into newer hybrids or electric cars that people can afford to drive. Right now the US has to move forward immediately with economical alternative energy transport. Price per gallon is a $144.00 a barrel and driving the stock market down with great force. GM is below $10/share and bankruptcy is a word I heard today speculators guessing for all American car manufacturers. Ouch...hard times are coming, we need to switch over to alleviate the pressure it is causing as soon as possible.
Right now the US has to move forward immediately with economical alternative energy transport.
I don't see how. ALL the manufacturers are bleeding. The only cars that are selling are the cheap ones. What you are proposing are very expensive and will be for a long time. Who knows what will happen in a year or 5 years. Oil could and probably will drop as consumers cannot afford to drive. If GM dies it takes a whole lot of people with it. We could see a big depression brought on by high fuel costs. Buying a new fuel efficient car will only be for the wealthy..
Not bad advice, more the hedging yourself in ways that go against the dollar, than the pre paid oil.There's been an interesting disconnect going on with the major integrated and medium sized oil companies. The fervor on oil seems to be occuring mostly in the commodity pits. On Wall St. you can buy Exxon -Mobil for $8 less than the 52 week high which was set last summer. Ditto BP.except $13 less.Remember BP bought Amoco & ARCO between 1997-98. All of the rest of the major integrateds at $4-7 less than their peak last summer. With the medium size oil companies, the highs were set earlier this year. So while Wall St. appears to be discounting the recent price rises, the commodity pits are embracing the paradigm with open arms. On a separate note while demand for oil in the US has been declining( it is relatively inelastic) 11 billion miles less driven in March '08 vs March '07 while demand for fuel efficient/hybrid/alternative transportation soars, this seems not to affect the action at the Merc.A recent prophesy by a Morgan Stanley oil analyst 10 days ago that oil would hit $150 a bbl before July 4th almost made it, $145.Self fulfilling prophesies considered a challenge to oil , uhh, investors.
Hmmm, My graduate economics text said remember that ceteris paribus is sometimes full of bs. Global recessions have amazing curative powers. They break bubble paradigms based on specious logic. Just as Wall St. embraced greater fool theory on sub prime cdo's and siv's. The "wise investors" who are racheting oil to extreme highs are ignoring the consequences of their actions.Your boiling the frog premise is fallacious and crap. Meant in the nicest way of course Steve, he who doth host.Kdh, can you quote me the spot price of crude for 1st quarter '98.If you have to google it, you're sadly too young. If you think the Dow is wild,they don't hold a candle to the oil market .
"...why do countries with much larger populations, and countries that have existed centuries longer than the U.S., lag behind us?"
Civilizations rise and fall. The Romans, the Huns, FSU and the British ruled more land. The economy is just one way people measure success or perceived success.
The USA is not the only energy pig out there, and that is why oil is heading past $140 a barrel and RUG is about $4.10.
My main point with the pig analogy is that there are a lot of pigs going after the same "food" in the trough. Nobody wants to share. The nation that will be successful in the future is the one that is energy efficient.
"CAFE is irrelevant, the market/people have spoken".
CAFE is irrelevant but for a different reason. All CAFE does is fine automakers who don't meet it. It appears that the market will speak louder than the marketing people. The automakers who don't exceed it will be out of business long befpre the new standards could take effect. Even GM who is in the best financial position of any American automaker is facing possible bankruptcy.
The foreign countries put their factories in our country to pollute our air and water. Then they buy our food. Then they say that we used their share of oil when we drove the tractor that made food they bought from us. Then they said we used their share of energy when we built Honda's in Ohio so thry could have 85% of the Honda sales profits created sent back to Japan. The Germans bought Chrysler which makes the worst mileage vehicles out of the big three. The pigs are the ones who run governments state local and federal. Palm Beach Gardens, Florida has 378 vehicles for town employees. I bet they run them 6 hrs a day and they average 10 mpg. My dad followed them around one day. They drove a dump truck all over town doing nothing for over an hour. Killing time at 7 mpg. They said in Indy they might not allow police to take patrol cars out to lunch anymore. Go near the mall and the percent of suv's triples. We have our waste. Who will lead us out of our wasteful ways? will we take the euro approach and use a mini cooper to take a family of 4 on a one week 2500 mile driving vacation? no thanks. For global security, whose military would replace us and with equipment that used how much less fuel? No country has less waste proportionately than us. We have more space to cover and more world obligations. What country ever had sympathy for us?
Back on topic, there is an interesting article on 10 Good Things About $4 Gas.
Globalized jobs return Sprawl stall Four-Day Workweeks Less pollution More Frugality Fewer Traffic Deaths Cheaper Insurance Less Traffic More Cops on the Beat Less Obesity
IMO there are plenty of folks that drive 10 mpg vehicles that have no vehicular requirements that a 30 mpg vehicle would meet.
What about the requirement to have the safest vehicle possible for their family? The little tin can 30mpg vehicles can hardly be considered safe... unless they crash into one of their own.
I know you're out there somewhere sailor. With gas prices at $4 a gallon and midsize/large SUV's in a freefall... this is the moment you've been waiting for your whole life. Come out into the open and show yourself! :P
Darn right !, I'll take them . Would three ships, 12 head of cattle, 6 oxen , 11 pigs, 5 geese and two houses be enough for a bulb? Oh wait, one of the heifers just gave birth, Make that 13 cattle. I'm buying before the price really goes up.
Actually one interesting twist that some community PD's are adopting is in addition to giving you the speeding ticket, they are attaching a surcharge for the fuel used to chase you down.
Saw a sad story that came from the Toledo Blade. In N. Toledo one young err gentleman rode up on a bicycle and shot another young gentleman with a shotgun. The victim sustained injuries but managed to save his life by crawling under an suv.The perp then rode off. So it's come to this has it? Welcome to the era of the peddle-by shooting ! Time was when you could afford the escalade, gas and the shotgun shells.
Kdh, can you quote me the spot price of crude for 1st quarter '98.If you have to google it, you're sadly too young. If you think the Dow is wild,they don't hold a candle to the oil market .
Since I was 40 then I doubt I was too young. Your point ( if there was one ) is hidden in inuendo. To be clear, the point I was making is that no one should complain about the price of fuel or the price of oil as long as that person continues to buy the product at whatever the price that's offered. Simply by buying that product at that price the buyer is accepting that there is good value for the price being paid. That's the basic premise of any sales transaction.
If the buyer sees no value or not enough value then the buyer will not act; i.e. NO Buyer = NO Sale. Currently today we all are validating the prices being offered. When we say NO and remove ourselves from the market then the prices will come down ( we does not mean only the US market, it means the worldwide market ).
>Simply by buying that product at that price the buyer is accepting that there is good value
Extrapolating your statement, I conclude that because gasoline is viewed by some as a necessity because of needing to get to work, what people (and the world) need do is reduce the use of petroleum fuels to the necessity level only cutting out all unneeded use.
I believe some, not all, have done some pruning of their extraneous usage. As the world economy slows while the media keep telling us all we're in a recession, the overall use there should drop.
Simply by buying that product at that price the buyer is accepting that there is good value for the price being paid. That's the basic premise of any sales transaction.
I disagree with that premise entirely. Just because I go to the store and buy a gallon of milk for $3 because my children need it, does not mean I think it is a good value. I believe it to be a necessity for good growth for my child. By the same thinking i will fill my car with gas no matter what the price if it is my only means of getting to work. I have to work to buy the milk to feed the child. Many things we buy at the price charged because they are a monopoly in which we have little or no choice. That means they are no longer free market. Electricity, water, telephone, cable TV are all controlled monopolies. Why isn't gas?
I have no good solution when you are buying from other countries other than intimidation. I see no reason not to use force if needed. Man has gotten what he wants by force for 1000s of years. Why stop now? We are part of natural system that dictates the strongest survive and the weakest die. If we allow the guy with oil to be the strongest we will die. Survival of the fittest was never anymore true than it is today.
As warm as it is today you would welcome the dunking. I would never take it out on the guy in the station. They are making minimum wage to take a lot of crap from ignorant customers. It is a clever gimmick.
Although gasoline price trends follow oil futures they are not actually tied together. Gasoline futures are an independent market. You can follow both oil and gasoline futures here. http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
To answer my own question, which I guess I'll have to since you side stepped in order to continue with your own agenda, the answer is $11/bbl . By the end of '98 it had risen to the low 20's iirc. My point is that although oil is highly inelastic there is some small degree of elasticity as evidenced by the lesser miles driven and demand for fuel efficient vehicles/hybrids, scooters etc.So while consumption has fallen, the price has not. And in that it is currently highly inelastic, the sale validates necessity only, nothing more.Your buyer wouldn't buy unless he saw value argument, while simplistic, is in error. China & India have been used as an explanation to justify higher prices and indeed their consumption is growing. But when I see 100% price increases in a little more than a year and 11.5% increases in a little more than a week , I smell bubble.
I disagree with that premise entirely. Just because I go to the store and buy a gallon of milk for $3 because my children need it, does not mean I think it is a good value.
No that's exactly the point I was making. You spend the $3 for the milk because you need it for your kids. The option is not buying it and making your kids do without. There is value in your purchase, the value of taking care of your kids is greater than $3 so you spend the money.
Your options are you can keep the $3 in your pocket and make your kids do without or you can give up the $3 and take care of your kids. A value judgement.
You may not like spending the money but that has nothing to do with value.
I disagree that we have no choices. We have a bunch of choices but we choose to exchange our money for a variety of products or services. One of the choices always is doing without.
Doing without food will soon lead to starvation. Doing without transportation will in most cases get you fired. Which leads to no food.
There is no doubt many Americans can cut back on a lot of things. Those at the bottom of the food chain do not have the ability to cut much. I will repeat. The only good thing I see with the high price of gas is selfish on my part. It takes a few cars off the road. Though not many as of yet.
The negatives of gas doubling in one year, far outweighs the few positive aspects. It WILL NOT SPEED UP ALTERNATIVES. Government needs to butt out of the energy equation. I am sure that their stupid ethanol mandate has a part to play in these crazy oil prices. I believe in the market. I believe this is a market reaction to a poorly run Federal reserve along with other government agencies.
sprawl stall? Sprawl slowed in '99 with $1.53 gas under Clinton. It came to a stop in late '04 with $1.99 gas. $4 gas just really hurts those who had already sprawled. I drove 19 miles in off the interstate to get to my house for the last 4 years. First all the motor homes disappeared from driveways along the way, along with 5th wheels. Then all the pickups were put out in front yards for sale, especially the ones with snowplows. Then Neons appeared in driveways. Then the really crappy houses went empty and seem abandoned now. At least since corn is grown for ethanol here, farmer's incomes are up and they can now buy a new 4 cyl and stay here. The retired people are being forced to lose their pickups and just keep the LeSabre. $9 in the 2 gallon can to mow the lawn less than twice. Meanwhile the county plow drove thru three 50 gallon tanks a day, salting the roads over and over, when we had snow once a month. The garbage pickup doubled in price over the 4 years due to fuel surcharges. I'm supposed to believe that half the cost of garbage service is gas used? Gas for school buses is a brewing issue that may drive property taxes up, but then some of the young commuters are leaving the country and moving back to town, taking the school age kids with them.
What do I put up with having moved back in close? Airport noise, barking dogs, paying for water, tiny garage and driveway designed for Civics, not Silverados. 50% higher property taxes, 8% instead of 7% sales tax rate, higher county income tax rate, police sirens, less breeze, hotter, dirtier air.
What's good about it? My gas use is more than a hundred gallons a month smaller. I spend 50-70 less minutes driving on weekdays and 20 less on weekend days. I save 20 minutes a week just not pumping gas into my car. But only 3% of the people can move due to the sour real estate market and tighter credit stds, so it won't be the way for most. A used Civic or new Focus seems to be the most popular ways for dealing with it. A $19k real estate commission can buy that and a lot of gas.
What about Kansas where the stores are 40 miles away from people's houses?
"Government needs to butt out of the energy equation. " Right on. The ethanol fiasco has been a total bust from a taxpayer stand point with the tariff and from a net savings in energy used to produce, there is none and the costs of the policy have inflated the price of gasoline.
"I believe in the market. I believe this is a market reaction to a poorly run Federal Reserve along with other government agencies. " Here I will agree mostly.The fed did lower interest rates way too low, spurring already rampant inflation and exacerbating the decline of the already weak dollar. But they were bullied into it by Wall St. who had finally realized the deep doo doo they were in late last summer.Faced with life threating write offs and with no federal bail out plan in sight, survivalism took over and they started hinting at a recession last fall. By January the hinting crap was over and they were screaming recession and due to numerous things, one being the abolition of the plus tick rule by the sec,the short sellers went into hog heaven and the dow into free fall. Editorial columns and the wsj were screaming that the fed has to do more. 75 basis points aren't enough, we want 1.25 %, no make that 1.5 % . The Fed responded with massive and unannounced rapid cuts. NASCAR Ben they were calling him because he knew how to stay ahead of the curve. But alas it didn't work. When you have crap paper at higher rates you also have crap paper at lower rates, Wall St had insured that they themselves would take the fall. When you bought paper backed by poor credit buyers who bought over their means and you asked for no money down and allowed them to pay interest only, they had no incentive to refinance. With nothing to lose from their stand point if the house was valued at less than they owed, they walked. Exit bubble one enter bubble two.The underpinnings of the decline of the dollar started in 1982 when the national debt was one trillion . Since then every president, yes even clinton has added to the national debt as a method of checking account balancing. For 26 years we've been spending more than we earn and balancing our budget with debits in the national debt. Now at $ 9 trillion it eats up 10% of all tax revenue just to pay the interest. Congress has been woefully naughty since 9/11 porking every bill to the maximum. So the fed was between a rock and an even harder place. Btw the real reason they bailed out Bear Stearns was that they were counter party to $14 trillion of trades.
Not necessarily. Other choices than doing without are as you note cutting back but also changing jobs, carpooling, changing domiciles, alternate forms of transportation and alternate forms of fuel ( these are in fact the very subject of this thread ). The difference is that we have choices all the time.
When we pay the man his money at the pump we are saying that there is more value in giving up our money to the oilman than there is in choosing one of the options above. Now at some point ( and this is an individual decision ) the price of fuel will exceed our willingness to give up our money so we will choose one of the other options.
Comments
If all those searching for some conspiracy would just look back at their college economics text. When there is a seller and a buyer and a price and the sale is concluded then the market is in balance. No buyers = NO SALE; No sellers = NO SALE.
High prices have caused us to slow down, drive different vehicles and drive less. This has caused some of us to use less fuel but inventories are NOT increasing dramatically creating an overhang. This means that we are using just about everything that's being pumped here and shipped here from the outside. That's good business practices on the producers part and it's good planning on the refiners part but it's not a conspiracy. That's matching supply and demand.
Could the MidEast and/or Canada produce and ship more? Probably somewhat, but why would they. We've shown that we'll pay $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon. We'll probably be willing to pay $4.50 on average next year...then somewhat more in 2010...then somewhat more....................
Yes, and the world keeps traveling around the Sun.
"I know they could kill me or kidnap me, but the cost of filling my tank in the United States is just too much," he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersComService_3_MOLT/idUSN1937099020080621
What can you say about a comment like that. :confuse:
Life....$1.40 a gallon.... life....$1.40 a gallon.... I just can't decide!
Time to dust off the 'Darwin Awards'
I agree that the US is primarily responsible for the drug problem in Mexico. We are the demand and the laws of economics say that where there is a demand a supply will emerge to satisfy that demand. The simple, but far too radical, solution would be for the US to legalize and regulate these drugs like they do for alcohol, which is also drug.
I'm waiting for the feds or states to step in and start fining people bringing excess gas and diesel back to the States for personal consumption or for resale.
They are costing the rest of us money by avoiding payment of fuel/road taxes.
There's been a move afoot to make Mexico join the International Fuel Tax Association, but I don't where that stands. Texas has some permitting requirements in the meantime. (link)
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0633-e.htm
Apparently they can restrict oil to the USA.
"to respond to a situation of armed conflict; "
So if Canada invades Alaska, they can limit oil exports to the USA. Makes sense to me. :shades:
RUG hit another record $4.098 (AAA).
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JG04Dj03.html
I think the comment above shows where we are headed in terms of oil wars. The rest of the world has little sympathy for the USA. For one, they see us as "pigs" sucking up 25% of the oil with only 5% of the population.
The biggest irony for me in the news was the recent announcement that the car makers are still fighting the CAFE standards. Sales of gas guzzlers are in the toilet, yet they still don't get it. CAFE is irrelevant, the market/people have spoken. Instead of spending million on lobbyists and lawyers the car makers should be designing cars with more high strength steel and better engines.
The next few years will be interesting to say the least. The IEA is reporting potential refinery shortages worldwide and an overall lack of supply. It is looking more and more like the pain at the pump will be forever.
We use 25% of the oil because we generate 25% of the world's economic activity. The United States is the largest economy in the world. And that begs the question -- why do countries with much larger populations, and countries that have existed centuries longer than the U.S., lag behind us?
Instead of thinking of us as "pigs," maybe those nations should be asking, "Hey, how did you guys accomplish so much so soon with such a small percentage of the world's population?
And I've noticed that plenty of nations that see us as "pigs" are more than happy to take our foreign aid, especially after a natural disaster strikes. The U.S. gives more money to such causes than any other nation on earth.
Pigs, indeed.
.
I don't think that would be a smart move. Remember Alaska was and is the US first line of defense against a Russian attack. Canada and the US are too closely tied to each other for real conflict. The current thinking is to extend a new pipeline through Canada to the Midwestern USA. That could provide much needed Natural Gas to Middle America.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/business/worldbusiness/09pipeline.html
"Rising gas prices are inspiring drivers to find new ways of protecting themselves against future increases—including buying gas in advance and investing in stocks that tend to rise along with the price of gasoline."
Stock investments and prepurchased gallons are hedges for consumers (US News)
My wife and I are only considering advanced gas saving car technology such as the Prius, or any of the slew of new types of alternate fuel/energy cars coming out.
We cannot afford to wait as gas prices take total advantage of us.
We are environmentally conscious as well and have been.
Were not treehuggers by any stretch but we want a change and if it improves the lives of everyone including the environment we are prepared to focus our next purchase on a fuel saving vehicle regardless of the lack of power or discomfort due to less space or ammenities the car may have. We realize the gas guzzlin' cars will soon be relics left in junk yards, or recycled into newer hybrids or electric cars that people can afford to drive.
Right now the US has to move forward immediately with economical alternative energy transport. Price per gallon is a $144.00 a barrel and driving the stock market down with great force. GM is below $10/share and bankruptcy is a word I heard today speculators guessing for all American car manufacturers. Ouch...hard times are coming, we need to switch over to alleviate the pressure it is causing as soon as possible.
I don't see how. ALL the manufacturers are bleeding. The only cars that are selling are the cheap ones. What you are proposing are very expensive and will be for a long time. Who knows what will happen in a year or 5 years. Oil could and probably will drop as consumers cannot afford to drive. If GM dies it takes a whole lot of people with it. We could see a big depression brought on by high fuel costs. Buying a new fuel efficient car will only be for the wealthy..
One more reason we should have let the Irish invade Canada.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Are they authentic Holland tulips?
Do I have to take delivery on the contract or can I roll it over at ever higher prices?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The oil that Marathon et al buy must not be that closely tied to the future contracts prices exchanged on the markets.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Civilizations rise and fall. The Romans, the Huns, FSU and the British ruled more land. The economy is just one way people measure success or perceived success.
The USA is not the only energy pig out there, and that is why oil is heading past $140 a barrel and RUG is about $4.10.
My main point with the pig analogy is that there are a lot of pigs going after the same "food" in the trough. Nobody wants to share. The nation that will be successful in the future is the one that is energy efficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eh
And besides, they would be attacking us from the rear in Alaska. All our defenses point toward Russia. :shades:
Yeah but be serious, how much damage can a Mountie in a canoe with a slingshot do?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
CAFE is irrelevant but for a different reason. All CAFE does is fine automakers who don't meet it. It appears that the market will speak louder than the marketing people. The automakers who don't exceed it will be out of business long befpre the new standards could take effect. Even GM who is in the best financial position of any American automaker is facing possible bankruptcy.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080702/bs_nm/gm_dc
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_50/b3963114.htm
I am guessing you never heard of Dudley Do-Right. :shades:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_Do-Right
Back on topic, there is an interesting article on 10 Good Things About $4 Gas.
Globalized jobs return
Sprawl stall
Four-Day Workweeks
Less pollution
More Frugality
Fewer Traffic Deaths
Cheaper Insurance
Less Traffic
More Cops on the Beat
Less Obesity
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1819594_1819592_18195- 90,00.html
11. Shoe sales go up
12. Umbrella sales go up
13. ___________________ ?
What about the requirement to have the safest vehicle possible for their family? The little tin can 30mpg vehicles can hardly be considered safe... unless they crash into one of their own.
I know you're out there somewhere sailor. With gas prices at $4 a gallon and midsize/large SUV's in a freefall... this is the moment you've been waiting for your whole life. Come out into the open and show yourself! :P
Sprawl was bound to stall sooner or later, it just couldn't keep going.
Less pollution Fewer Traffic Deaths
Pollution has been dropping for quite a while so have traffic deaths. So you cannot give $4/gallon gas credit for that.
Less Traffic
Couldn't tell that by the traffic around here.
More Cops on the Beat
So $4/gallon gas means the police departments hired more cops? If anything they have less gas to patrol the streets.
Four-Day Work weeks
Only a very small percentage of one percent of the population went to 4 day work weeks.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
He probably even sails into his slip without firing up the kicker, a la Sterling Hayden, who said ""Wind is to us what gas is to life on shore."
Ok, his quote was "what money is to life" but it's about the same difference.
Darn right !, I'll take them . Would three ships, 12 head of cattle,
6 oxen , 11 pigs, 5 geese and two houses be enough for a bulb?
Oh wait, one of the heifers just gave birth, Make that 13 cattle.
I'm buying before the price really goes up.
Saw a sad story that came from the Toledo Blade. In N. Toledo one young err gentleman rode up on a bicycle and shot another young gentleman with a shotgun. The victim sustained injuries but managed to save his life by crawling under an suv.The perp then rode off. So it's come to this has it? Welcome to the era of the peddle-by shooting ! Time was when you could afford the escalade, gas and the shotgun shells.
Since I was 40 then I doubt I was too young. Your point ( if there was one ) is hidden in inuendo. To be clear, the point I was making is that no one should complain about the price of fuel or the price of oil as long as that person continues to buy the product at whatever the price that's offered. Simply by buying that product at that price the buyer is accepting that there is good value for the price being paid. That's the basic premise of any sales transaction.
If the buyer sees no value or not enough value then the buyer will not act; i.e. NO Buyer = NO Sale. Currently today we all are validating the prices being offered. When we say NO and remove ourselves from the market then the prices will come down ( we does not mean only the US market, it means the worldwide market ).
Extrapolating your statement, I conclude that because gasoline is viewed by some as a necessity because of needing to get to work, what people (and the world) need do is reduce the use of petroleum fuels to the necessity level only cutting out all unneeded use.
I believe some, not all, have done some pruning of their extraneous usage. As the world economy slows while the media keep telling us all we're in a recession, the overall use there should drop.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I disagree with that premise entirely. Just because I go to the store and buy a gallon of milk for $3 because my children need it, does not mean I think it is a good value. I believe it to be a necessity for good growth for my child. By the same thinking i will fill my car with gas no matter what the price if it is my only means of getting to work. I have to work to buy the milk to feed the child. Many things we buy at the price charged because they are a monopoly in which we have little or no choice. That means they are no longer free market. Electricity, water, telephone, cable TV are all controlled monopolies. Why isn't gas?
I have no good solution when you are buying from other countries other than intimidation. I see no reason not to use force if needed. Man has gotten what he wants by force for 1000s of years. Why stop now? We are part of natural system that dictates the strongest survive and the weakest die. If we allow the guy with oil to be the strongest we will die. Survival of the fittest was never anymore true than it is today.
Bay Area Shell station Rant-and-Dunk booth (Straightline)
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
in a little more than a year and 11.5% increases in a little more than a week , I smell bubble.
innuendo, an italian suppository?
No that's exactly the point I was making. You spend the $3 for the milk because you need it for your kids. The option is not buying it and making your kids do without. There is value in your purchase, the value of taking care of your kids is greater than $3 so you spend the money.
Your options are you can keep the $3 in your pocket and make your kids do without or you can give up the $3 and take care of your kids. A value judgement.
You may not like spending the money but that has nothing to do with value.
I disagree that we have no choices. We have a bunch of choices but we choose to exchange our money for a variety of products or services. One of the choices always is doing without.
Doing without food will soon lead to starvation. Doing without transportation will in most cases get you fired. Which leads to no food.
There is no doubt many Americans can cut back on a lot of things. Those at the bottom of the food chain do not have the ability to cut much. I will repeat. The only good thing I see with the high price of gas is selfish on my part. It takes a few cars off the road. Though not many as of yet.
The negatives of gas doubling in one year, far outweighs the few positive aspects. It WILL NOT SPEED UP ALTERNATIVES. Government needs to butt out of the energy equation. I am sure that their stupid ethanol mandate has a part to play in these crazy oil prices. I believe in the market. I believe this is a market reaction to a poorly run Federal reserve along with other government agencies.
Sprawl slowed in '99 with $1.53 gas under Clinton. It came to a stop in late '04 with $1.99 gas. $4 gas just really hurts those who had already sprawled.
I drove 19 miles in off the interstate to get to my house for the last 4 years. First all the motor homes disappeared from driveways along the way, along with 5th wheels. Then all the pickups were put out in front yards for sale, especially the ones with snowplows. Then Neons appeared in driveways. Then the really crappy houses went empty and seem abandoned now. At least since corn is grown for ethanol here, farmer's incomes are up and they can now buy a new 4 cyl and stay here. The retired people are being forced to lose their pickups and just keep the LeSabre. $9 in the 2 gallon can to mow the lawn less than twice. Meanwhile the county plow drove thru three 50 gallon tanks a day, salting the roads over and over, when we had snow once a month. The garbage pickup doubled in price over the 4 years due to fuel surcharges. I'm supposed to believe that half the cost of garbage service is gas used? Gas for school buses is a brewing issue that may drive property taxes up, but then some of the young commuters are leaving the country and moving back to town, taking the school age kids with them.
What do I put up with having moved back in close? Airport noise, barking dogs, paying for water, tiny garage and driveway designed for Civics, not Silverados. 50% higher property taxes, 8% instead of 7% sales tax rate, higher county income tax rate, police sirens, less breeze, hotter, dirtier air.
What's good about it? My gas use is more than a hundred gallons a month smaller. I spend 50-70 less minutes driving on weekdays and 20 less on weekend days. I save 20 minutes a week just not pumping gas into my car. But only 3% of the people can move due to the sour real estate market and tighter credit stds, so it won't be the way for most. A used Civic or new Focus seems to be the most popular ways for dealing with it. A $19k real estate commission can buy that and a lot of gas.
What about Kansas where the stores are 40 miles away from people's houses?
Right on. The ethanol fiasco has been a total bust from a taxpayer stand point with the tariff and from a net savings in energy used to produce, there is none and the costs of the policy have inflated the price of gasoline.
"I believe in the market. I believe this is a market reaction to a poorly run Federal Reserve along with other government agencies. " Here I will agree mostly.The fed did lower interest rates way too low, spurring already rampant inflation and exacerbating the decline of the already weak dollar. But they were bullied into it by Wall St. who had finally realized the deep doo doo they were in late last summer.Faced with life threating write offs and with no federal bail out plan in sight, survivalism took over and they started hinting at a recession last fall. By January the hinting crap was over and they were screaming recession and due to numerous things, one being the abolition of the plus tick rule by the sec,the short sellers went into hog heaven and the dow into free fall. Editorial columns and the wsj were screaming that the fed has to do more. 75 basis points aren't enough, we want 1.25 %, no make that 1.5 % . The Fed responded with massive and unannounced rapid cuts. NASCAR Ben they were calling him because he knew how to stay ahead of the curve. But alas it didn't work. When you have crap paper at higher rates you also have crap paper at lower rates, Wall St had insured that they themselves would take the fall. When you bought paper backed by poor credit buyers who bought over their means and you asked for no money down and allowed them to pay interest only, they had no incentive to refinance. With nothing to lose from their stand point if the house was valued at less than they owed, they walked. Exit bubble one enter bubble two.The underpinnings of the decline of the dollar started in 1982 when the national debt was one trillion . Since then every president, yes even clinton has added to the national debt as a method of checking account balancing. For 26 years we've been spending more than we earn and balancing our budget with debits in the national debt. Now at $ 9 trillion it eats up 10% of all tax revenue just to pay the interest. Congress has been woefully naughty since 9/11 porking every bill to the maximum. So the fed was between a rock and an even harder place. Btw the real reason they bailed out Bear Stearns was that they were counter party to $14 trillion of trades.
When we pay the man his money at the pump we are saying that there is more value in giving up our money to the oilman than there is in choosing one of the options above. Now at some point ( and this is an individual decision ) the price of fuel will exceed our willingness to give up our money so we will choose one of the other options.