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Comments
"That's about as naive a statement as I've ever heard "
No, gotta disagree with you on that point. We elect the officials. If we pick the wrong person or decide not to vote, well that is our bad.
No.
“You should be appalled at the high price of gas !”
I am not. Gas is still relatively cheap compared to other countries. I knew the price was going up. After reading a few thousand articles from around the Internet over the last few years I was able to get a good sense on where prices were headed.
“Exxon Mobile made $40+ Billion dollars this year off the backs of everyone, the highest profit margin ever in history.”
Yes they did. Their job is to take the money from your pocket and put the money in the pocket of their investors. If you don't like it try one of the many alternatives.
“It is almost insanely illegal.”
Not even close. Microsoft made greater profits as a percentage. My answer to Microsoft and Bill “I'm paying a million dollars a year in property tax on my $100 million dollar home” Gates was to buy a Linux computer. I got tired of paying hundreds of dollars every few years for bloated software so I picked an alternative OS and OpenOffice.org.
" It's not like they reinvested those profits for our benefit by creating new jobs."
Their obligation is to their shareholders. The company is required to maximize shareholder wealth. They have NO obligation to provide anyone with cheap gasoline or jobs.
“Those jobs went to China or Mexico. “
Yes, we wanted cheaper products so they are now made in countries with cheap labor. Funny how that works, eh.
"Just wait, when you can't afford gas you will be very frustrated to."
Sorry, but you don't know what my finances are nor do you seem to realize that I can adapt. Change is a given. I can handle it. :shades:
"And those outrageous gas prices are causing poor people not to be able to afford food now"
I would agree that they are having trouble affording food . They will starve. But why are these people still having more children when they cannot support the population they have now? Let's throw another one on the barbie, honey!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation
“Yes the price of gas is lower in the US than anywhere else (except Venezuela 25cents a gallon) but still super high for what it is. “
Sorry but your statement is wrong. We are about 111 out of 150 or so countries. Gasoline prices are lower in KSA, Iran, Mexico, China, Russia and a few other countries. DO YOU DO ANY RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR COMMENTS? I know where the caps lock key is and I know how to use it.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html
http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/367030
Their obligation is to their shareholders. The company is required to maximize shareholder wealth. They have NO obligation to provide anyone with cheap gasoline or jobs.
and you also wrote:
Sorry but your statement is wrong. We are about 111 out of 150 or so countries. Gasoline prices are lower in KSA, Iran, Mexico, China, Russia and a few other countries. DO YOU DO ANY RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR COMMENTS?
Yes I do research. Are you short sighted ?
Read below:
Copied here verbatum from www.b-top.org/links.html
Heavy Traffic Ahead: Car Culture Accelerates, Environmental Health Perspectives 113 (Apr 2005), Richard Dahl.
Wachs doesn’t believe that the report succeeds in making a convincing case for global automotive sustainability. What’s significant, though, is that it took place at all, he says. “What it represents,” he says, “is an awakening of industries, which just a few years ago might have said, ‘This isn’t our responsibility; our responsibility is to our shareholders.’ But now they’re saying that they do have responsibilities and they should be thinking in terms of fuel cells and other more energy-efficient forms of powering automobiles. So I think that’s reason to have a little bit of optimism.”
Mobility 2030 outlines seven goals that the council believes must be met in order to achieve automotive sustainability: (1) reduce conventional vehicle emissions “so that they do not constitute a significant public health concern anywhere in the world”; (2) limit greenhouse gas emissions to sustainable levels by moving toward hydrogen and bio-based fuels; (3) significantly reduce the number of traffic-related deaths and injuries worldwide; (4) reduce traffic noise; (5) reduce traffic congestion; (6) narrow “mobility divides” between rich and poor people within countries, as well as between rich and poor countries, by improving access to transportation for poor people in rural areas; and (7) improve mobility opportunities for the general population so that people don’t need to rely on privately owned vehicles.
Is it too late ? Maybe but better late than never, for all our sakes.
Business should be held accountable.
Have you read 'The Economic Hitman'' by John Perkins,ex CEO.
Do you understand the impact of the ''Corporatocracy' ?
Companies should have loyalty to the nation and be ethically bound to the philosophy that Business can be a mechanism for altruism. A new plan has to be made, alternatives will have to be given to us to make our country and world a better place. Profound statements but at $4, $7, $10 a gallon what will we really do ?? What do you think !!! When food cannot be put on the table, you will see.
A solution has to be found now for all of us and for the future generations of children who will live with this legacy.
me: what country? Since many companies and corp. are multinational ...
No, the corporations I invest in are working for me; not the greedy power-hungry representatives of our government. The government already gets enough of my money and the money I get from my investments.
And as several people have already said you will need to adapt when prices go up. I'll plan on burning wood r wood pellets instead of home heating-oil, and I'll bike to work when the weather's good.
I drove it a lot around the holidays to visit friends and family who are scattered throughout the country, but it has pretty much sat since January. My other job often takes me to neighborhoods where only the most reckless and self-destructive individual would take a new Cadillac.
I guess you're right. I'd have since a V-6 alone as a huge step down from my 2002 Seville STS. Of course, I always had the option of keeping the Seville and not spending the money too! D'oh!
International Business is Hard Ball at every level and altruism has no place in their system of control and that control includes the control of you, their customer.
As a shareholder and investor of energy stocks, my first priority is getting the Best Bang for The Buck. There is no such thing as excessive or obscene Profits. Remember "Profit" is not a four letter word.
The newsreels of post Katrina showed thousands without food in NO, but not one person appeared to be starving while sitting on their [non-permissible content removed]'s waiting to be cared for when they could have been helping their neighbors dig out or join in the looting. :mad:
using 87.4 gallons of gas, i averaged about 18.75 mpg and averaged paying about 3.80 a gallon.
a relatively expensive trip, but hard to do any cheaper any other way.
Being a skeptic has kept me out of a lot of trouble (even kept me out of a cult, but thats another story).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think the things that have occurred already during the torch relay are an indication of what's yet to come. Several major countries have hinted about boycotting the entire event, or at least the opening ceremonies. I haven't read any recent updates on this.
I suspect we're in for a summer of "We ain't seen nothing yet", as it applies to to political protests and other incidents at the games.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=30ae8843-b80d-4770-a572-e- fe075abf257
"Remember when gas went over a buck and we all thought it was an outrage? Now, if we see it for $1.16, we grab the bargain. People's sense of what something is worth is often based on historical perception, not intrinsic value, but we adapt fairly quickly. We understand intuitively, if not explicitly, that higher gasoline prices alone don't justify drastic lifestyle changes. For that reason, gas prices will not be the trigger for change that environmentalists and Apocalypse fans predict."
That is $1.16/liter.
AAA is also reporting another record for RUG at $3.70 (national average). Only 30 cents to go before:
a) the sky falls
b) your SUV turns into a pumpkin
c) TEOTWAWKI
d) all of the above :shades:
First off that statement is not close to correct. They made the largest dollar amount on a very large sales amount. Not even close to a record profit margin. As was pointed out many companies make a lot more on their investment. How much should they be allowed to make? Do you think that companies like Pepsi and Coke should be held to those same profit margins. Currently both Pepsi and Coke are making twice as much on their investment as any of the oil companies. They happen to have a corner on the bottled water. Many times selling it for $20+ per gallon. Where is the screaming at Coke and Pepsi. I would rather pay $4 per gallon for gas than $20 per gallon for water. I drink a gallon a day. At those prices it is a much bigger part of my budget than gas.
Oh, when you start riding your bike you will need even more water from those thieves at Coca Cola :sick:
I personally believe we have the ability to develop alternatives that ultimately won't involve sacrifices to our lifestyles that the advocates of conservation want to impose on themselves.
Ok as for the second quote, I believe that in time we can do that. For the first quote the advantage would be to give us enough time to come up with those solutions.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Look over at some of the threads at GMI. A very common feeling there is 'You will have to pry the pump handle out of my cold dead hands. I will drive whatever I please and no one can stop me or tell me anything different. It's my money and I'll spend it as I wish.' This is not an isolated idea there.
As long as we and our fellow citizens choose to buy the product of the oil companies then they should make all the money they can from us. It's a free country as they say and that's our economical model ( political content minimized ).
Altruism is a moral vice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism
"Profound statements but at $4, $7, $10 a gallon what will we really do ??"
Buy smaller cars, drive less.
"When food cannot be put on the table, you will see."
I eat in my car. :P People have been dieing from a lack of food or clean water for thousands of years. You are looking for Utopia, You are on the wrong planet, maybe even in the wrong universe.
"A solution has to be found now for all of us and for the future generations of children who will live with this legacy."
It is not as bad as you say. High prices are a bit of a wake up call for some, but people are adjusting. Went shopping today. The stores were packed with people buying things like patio furniture - us too. Why would all those people be buying patio furniture - we must be doomed.
Those people buy patio furniture because they feel the price of gas is so high they have to stay home. This is good for congestion problems making our traveling more of a higher quality for us.
It may be a higher quality of life for everyone. Spend a little more time with family in the backyard instead of the beach or mountains. We spend a lot of money for that home in the burbs with a manicured lawn then don't spend much time enjoying it. Get to know your neighbors and kids.
your hero Bill Clinton let them into the WTO. Now we have to share our jobs,our fuel,
and our food and it is too late to stop. Their kids are becoming engineers our kids
are playing games.!
I'm not a tree hugger but there's nothing wrong with hopping on a bike, either to save fuel or to pursue a healthier lifestyle. Maybe if more people did this the nation's obesity rate wouldn't be the "huge" problem that it is today.
Video games built in China. Kind of ironic. Get the kids addicted to video games and steal their futures.
I'm more of a 10th amendment kinda guy... :shades:
No the government will not tell you what you 'need' but they can and will tell you what you are 'allowed' in order to be fair to all citizens.
same thing to me.."fair" has nothing to do with rights; which I think does (or should) trump all.
but back to cars...I was looking for a co-worker who wants something fun...perhaps used (under 15Kish) and good on gas.
My initial thoughts hit the usual...Yaris, Fit, Civic (used) etc...
But then I stumbled upon the MINI Cooper S. I found a 2004 S for around 15k...It does look to be one of the best combination of fun and mileage.
A Jetta Wolfsburg and a Accord Coupe I4 also are possibilities.
If you look, it does seem possible to get something fun with good mileage.
Altruism is selfless concern for the welfare of others. It is a traditional virtue in many cultures, and central to many religious traditions. This idea was often described as the Golden rule of ethics. Some philosophies such as Objectivism argue that altruism is a moral vice. Altruism is the opposite of selfishness.
Ah.. most would believe that altruism is a virtue. Objectivism ie.the philosophy of selfishness and greed, does not get you far in this world.
Buy smaller cars, drive less.
Yes. And buy electric cars (ones built with a hydrogen cell like the Ecovoyager for extension for long distances), or hybrids like a Prius and become less dependant on the oil companies. Buy solar panels and become even more independant from the energy companies and still be able to drive long distances.
People have been dieing from a lack of food or clean water for thousands of years. You are looking for Utopia, You are on the wrong planet, maybe even in the wrong universe.
No I am looking at improving the situation on the earth and actively trying to to do so every day in my own way. I would like to think we are on the right planet and we should try to save it. If we could put men on the moon, we can solve any problem on the earth including basic necessities such as food shortages and clean water that is available for everyone. But you are right about one thing, many people believe in what you are saying and remain cynical all their lives doing nothing.
Not as bad as I say ? Lets see 1-massive foreclosure rate now surpassing the great depression numbers, 2-how many people lost their jobs within the last 3 years in the US especially in the automotive sector, 3-gas skyrocketing to all time never seen before price hikes in the US and the world. Looks like we are in for a bumpy ride the next 10-15 years if not longer.
www.b-top.org/links.html
Copied here verbatum from
Heavy Traffic Ahead: Car Culture Accelerates, Environmental Health Perspectives 113 (Apr 2005), Richard Dahl.
''Wachs doesn’t believe that the report succeeds in making a convincing case for global automotive sustainability. What’s significant, though, is that it took place at all, he says. “What it represents,” he says, “is an awakening of industries, which just a few years ago might have said, ‘This isn’t our responsibility; our responsibility is to our shareholders.’ But now they’re saying that they do have responsibilities and they should be thinking in terms of fuel cells and other more energy-efficient forms of powering automobiles. So I think that’s reason to have a little bit of optimism.”
Mobility 2030 outlines seven goals that the council believes must be met in order to achieve automotive sustainability: (1) reduce conventional vehicle emissions “so that they do not constitute a significant public health concern anywhere in the world”; (2) limit greenhouse gas emissions to sustainable levels by moving toward hydrogen and bio-based fuels; (3) significantly reduce the number of traffic-related deaths and injuries worldwide; (4) reduce traffic noise; (5) reduce traffic congestion; (6) narrow “mobility divides” between rich and poor people within countries, as well as between rich and poor countries, by improving access to transportation for poor people in rural areas; and (7) improve mobility opportunities for the general population so that people don’t need to rely on privately owned vehicles. ''
http://www.ehponline.org/cgi-bin/findtoc2.pl?tocinfo=Environmental Health Perspectives@113@4@2005
Article name:
Heavy Traffic Ahead: Car Culture Accelerates, Environmental Health Perspectives 113 (Apr 2005), Richard Dahl.
a) Bugs Bunny
b) a F1 driver
c) an airline pilot for NWA flying from Paris to Minneapolis
d) none of the above
2. How much fuel will I save?
a) 1.6 gallons a trip
b) 160 gallons a trip
c) 222 gigawatts
d) I'll use more fuel
3. My mortgage payment just went up $20, about the same monthly increase as my gasoline costs this last year. What should I do?
a) panic, run around the house screaming we are all doomed
b) sell one of our kids
c) fire up the budget spreadsheet and adjust the dollar amount for the mortgage payment
d) sell our house and downsize to a subcompact
Based on your numbers that is about $332 bananas. I just checked into getting some round trip airline tickets to Florida. NWA wants $650 a person. And you can bet I would not be able to carry 95 cubic feet of cargo.
Which part of beautiful Western Ohio did you visit? I'm in West Central Ohio near I75 and I70.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Beware of altruism, it is based on self deception, the root of all evil" - Robert A, Heinlein.
"If tempted by something that feels altruistic examine your motives and root out that self deception. Then if you still want to do it wallow in it." - Robert A. Hienlein
Lets see 1-massive foreclosure rate now surpassing the great depression numbers,
Relatively few homes are being foreclosed on, IIRC less than 1% of the homes out there.
2-how many people lost their jobs within the last 3 years in the US especially in the automotive sector,
Unemployment is still rather low and lower than many analysts expected.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
a) Bugs Bunny
b) a F1 driver
c) an airline pilot for NWA flying from Paris to Minneapolis
d) none of the above - Dick Cheney on Air Force One. He saw something out the window he wanted to shoot at
2. How much fuel will I save?
a) 1.6 gallons a trip
b) 160 gallons a trip
c) 222 gigawatts
d) I'll use more fuel
e) 1.21 gigawatts
3. My mortgage payment just went up $20, about the same monthly increase as my gasoline costs this last year. What should I do?
a) panic, run around the house screaming we are all doomed
b) sell one of our kids
c) fire up the budget spreadsheet and adjust the dollar amount for the mortgage payment
d) sell our house and downsize to a subcompact
e) All of the above
:shades:
Edmunds just published an article about the upcoming 2010 Prius. Funny thing is, the new design looks a lot like the Civic Hybrid.
Funnier still is the fact that Toyota is putting a BIGGER gasoline engine in their little green flagship. Seems they want to market the new Prius as a sports car. But it's also bigger and heavier. Maybe the new Prius is a family sedan, too?
Hey, it's all things to all people! Which means it'll be nothing to no one. Did Toyota farm out the design and marketing to GM?
Here's the article:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=126123
The 1990 Honda CRX HF didn't get 50 mpg.
And when your parents were kids, they didn't walk uphill through the snow to school ..... in both directions.
Nostalgia is nice. The truth is something else.
The 1990 Honda CRX HF didn't get 50 mpg.
I dunno about the Subaru 360, but I imagine the Honda CRX HF might break 50 if you drove it the right way. Remember, that's a bare-bones, lightweight car with no a/c, probably no power steering or brakes, stick shift, geared just right, not very powerful, but still pretty quick because of the light weight and no power-sapping accessories.
If you can get a fully-loaded LeSabre, Impala, etc to break 30 on the highway, or a Civic with the a/t and a/c to hit 40, I don't see how 50 is out of reach for a CRX HF.
I'm not an objectivist - although I do lean libertarian - & wouldn't go so far as to call altruism a vice. But I don't think that you can build an energy policy for a $12 trillion economy around altruism. If you want your policy to actually succeed, your motivating principle should be old-fashioned self-interest. I'm cutting back on the number of miles that I travel by consolidating my trips. I'm doing this not for the sake of future generations but for my own sake. Every dollar that I don't spend on gas is a dollar that I can spend on stuff - wine, music, etc. - that gives me pleasure. I'll let my great-grandchildren fend for themselves.
I'm a free market guy, & I think that the free market will work just fine. Rising prices will induce people to use less gas in many different ways - fewer trips, ride sharing, telecommuting, more efficient vehicles - & will make energy alternatives more attractive to investors.
We'll also probably find that when prices reach a certain level, our petroleum reserves will increase. This has happened before. Oil in hard-to-reach places that wasn't worth extracting in 1970, when crude sold for $3 per barrel, became very attractive by 1980, when the price of crude was $30+ (in 1980 dollars) per barrel.
Then obviously, there isn't really a "problem." If people decide to continue using gasoline at current levels and pay the higher prices, that is their business.
kdhspyder: A very common feeling there is 'You will have to pry the pump handle out of my cold dead hands. I will drive whatever I please and no one can stop me or tell me anything different. It's my money and I'll spend it as I wish.'
And this is bad in exactly what way...?
We took a six-hour roundtrip this weekend. I can read numbers on the pump as well as anyone else. We went anyway, and drove at 75-80 mph as much as possible because...I like to.
Those who believe differently are free to adjust their gasoline usage and driving habits accordingly.
If gasoline prices keep rising, we'll make adjustments. Or we may cut down on something else to keep driving. But that is our choice. We can work this out on our own. I think the real problem is that we may make choices that others don't like. Well, too bad.
Choose to block the roadway traveling at 50 MPH? No problem. Feel Free!
We could force qualification for a driver's license with a test that requires traveling at 175 mph for 3 hours straight. That will clear all PITA drivers from ever getting licenses in the first place.
But, no, it's a free country after all. Just parallel park, use you signals and make sure you do not track into oncoming traffic while on your cell phone and you're in!
Regards,
OW
The articles I see tell of increasing small car sales, increased use of mass transit, and a 1.5 pecent decrease in gasoline consumption at the end of the year...looks like people are adjusting on their own, without anyone else telling them what to do. And many others have decided that prices aren't high enough to make any changes in their habits and lifestyles, which is their choice.
Isn't it amazing how the free market works when prices rise and people are allowed to respond on their own?
But I guess it's more fun to run around squawking that the sky is falling...
I don't like the fact that playoff tickets are so expensive. What we need is the government to step in and stop people from going multiple times...thereby reducing demand and lowering the prices for the people who can't/won't pay the high amounts; it's only fair
anyway...my silliness aside...I think the thread should be changed to "above $5 a gallon". Or we could be preemptive and put $6...$7
As a Philadelphia Eagles fan, I believe that the government should mandate that they win a Super Bowl at least once a decade. Even if they have to play Brownie Troop 105 of Philadelphia to win...
Sorry. Giants fan....
"anyway...my silliness aside...I think the thread should be changed to "above $5 a gallon". Or we could be preemptive and put $6...$7"
Definitely not "$5/gallon". One good storm in the Gulf during the "summer driving season" will make that title obsolete....now "$6/gallon" is probably safe for a while.
Has anyone noticed that the oil companies use the "summer driving season" as a pretext to raise gas prices regular as clockwork every year? If people stay home in large numbers because of the price of gas, shouldn't prices stay relatively stable between spring and summer? But I suspect they won't. I have seen a 4 cent increase in my area since the middle of last week, and I expect that to be another dime or two by Memorial Day.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They use anything and everything they can find. Summer Driving Season. Winter Blend Driving Season. Chance Of Gulf Coast Hurricanes Price-gouging...er...DRIVING Season. Holiday Driving Season. Vacation Driving Season. Am I missing any?
How about a government mandate that the Chicago Cubs win a World Series at least once a century?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D