And how about Hawaii, ....... I predict they will be using Lava powered cars and trucks in the not to distant future.
Oh Hawaii isn't that big, plus its broken down into many smaller pieces (islands) so they can ride bikes everywhere. Heck I have driven the road to Hana a bike might just be faster.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Just think. Ninety thousand independent truckers in Spain have stopped their vehicles at $7-$8 a gallon and gone on strike. American truckers probably have a lower threshold.
How much do you want to bet that AEA holds oil futures as part of their investments? That's the company that that admiral is CEO of now. He would therefore consider $400 a barrel in 2018 a good thing because he'll get it 5 years from now. Oil futures are having less and less to do with the realities of supply and demand, and MUCH less to do with the real oil and gasoline market. Everyone could stop using gas and, the way things are, people would still be trading these futures for inflated prices...probably because they know no one would pay that much for actual delivery (which is what futures were originally for...to lock in a later delivery price).
Oh and $5.18 for diesel doesn't impress me. Up here in my area I saw diesel for $5.34 yesterday.
Now for me I recently found that all things being equal, for me, if I travel at 65 in my 03 Accord 4-cyl I get about the same mileage as I do going 55. What does this mean, I don't know, but I like it because 55 is a hard speed to maintain especially on the freeway, I can't take the monotony and all the dirty looks.
The '03 Accord has a 5-speed automatic, and I think both 4th and 5th gear are pretty tall. I wonder if at 55 mph, the engine just isn't revving enough in top gear to have much power, so it might downshift more often, in situations like when you come to a hill, have to pass a slower moving car, etc? At 65, it might rev just high enough that it can do most of its highway driving in 5th gear.
Also, the faster you drive, the further you can coast when you take your foot off the gas, so that will partially negate the increased fuel burned getting up to those higher speeds.
Consumers Report had a note that they drove a Camry at 55 mph and got 40 mpg, increasing to 65 mph got 35 mpg, and increasing to 75 dropped the mileage to 30 mpg. It also indicated that adding a roof rack container dropped the mileage at 65 from 35 to 29 mpg. They didn't indicate which model Camry or engine, but it would appear to be an I-4 engine. I don't know what the EPA criteria is for speed when it publishes highway mpg.
There is about 25-35 miles of ocean between the islands. I imagine the Interstates are highways paid for by the Feds. Hawaii and Alaska get the most Federal money per capita. Honolulu has over a million people on an Island you can drive around in 2 hours. They have a lot of traffic. I know when I used the bus service in the 1980s it was almost always standing room only. So It will be interesting to see if they can handle the people that quit driving because of higher gas prices.
The biggest problem I see in Hawaii is the electricity. They produce most with oil. They are used to high gas prices. In April I paid less for RUG in Hilo than in San Diego. They do not have designer gas and probably take whatever the oil companies send them. Shell is almost always the least expensive there. Not the case in CA where it is one of the highest priced.
I bought diesel for my tractor yesterday at $5.19 per gallon. Regular was $4.69 at my local Shell station. I would have to drive 15 mies to get diesel at $4.79 per gallon. I only use about 5 gallons every 6-8 months. Costco was at $4.33 on Tuesday.
I've said it multiple times on these threads....and I'll stick by these numbers.... Free of charge
Plan on $0.50 per gallon increases in fuel every year from now until we can generate huge massive quantities of alternate fuels. I actually think this 'number' is conservative. A 10-15% increase annually might be more accurate. National Avg of course, specific states may be well higher.
2006 .. $2.35 Avg --> Done 2007 .. $2.85 Avg --> Done 2008 .. $3.35 Avg --> Assured now 2009 .. $3.85 Avg 2010 .. $4.35 Avg 2011 .. $5.00 Avg 2012 2013 .. $6.00 Avg 2014 2015 .. $7.00 Avg 2016 2017 .. $8.00 Avg 2018 2019 .. $9.00 Avg 2020 2021 .. $10.00 Avg $0.50 / gal increases don't seem like much at all but as you can see they add up
Ninety thousand independent truckers in Spain have stopped their vehicles at $7-$8 a gallon and gone on strike. American truckers probably have a lower threshold.
So what do you think happens next? I would guess either a) the truckers go back to work and make what they can, or b) they stay "stopped", the companies and stores don't get their products and they are forced to pay the truckers more.
Sometimes this is the way the market works - it is a form of negotiating. If American truckers stop en masse and for long enough then they would force higher rates also. Either the companies absorb the cost, or they pass it on to the consumer if they can.
The airlines are passing along their higher fuel costs in various ways also.
When the steel industry violated the wage and price guidelines and sharply raised steel prices in 1962, President Kennedy, visibly angry, went on TV and condemned the action. Shortly after, prices came down.
This demonstrates how a strong president can deal with those who only care about power and profits.
"When the steel industry violated the wage and price guidelines and sharply raised steel prices in 1962, President Kennedy, visibly angry, went on TV and condemned the action. Shortly after, prices came down. "
Pretty different situation - iron ore was mined here, refined here, turned into steel products here. Oil and gas are global, we're paying the same as Europe, etc, don't see how an angry comment from anybody changes that.
Oh the price of Gas My budget stretches too far Only half a tank *************************** Four dollars my gosh I cannot afford this gas Can't we just all walk? *************************** One gallon four bucks Are five and six coming soon? How I love my bike ***************************
I think your numbers are right on for the next five years or so, I just hope they are not too conservative. And that means here in California, we will spend a fair part of 2010, probably six months or more, with $6 regular unleaded. That's less than two years away. :-(
I do think that demand will drop a lot when gas hits $6-7/gallon, people just aren't ready for that. In that same timeframe I expect that lots of developing countries that currently subsidize oil for their constituents will be forced by economic pressures to stop doing so, which will decrease demand a lot worldwide. However, in the same period, oil production will continue to drop.
The net effect? I think we will see sharp rises in the prices for another 3 or 4 years along the lines of what we are already seeing now, then they might plateau for a while.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How many of you have seen commercials paid for by some state dept. of tourism promoting a visit to their state?
Why are tax dollars being used to encourage people to drive, or fly then drive more? I know - because each state is looking out for its best interest, rather than the country as a whole. Is this local-selfishness good?
Why does the government sit idly by and let new homes be constructed with oil-heat if we want to wean ourselves off oil?
There needs to be some coordination between these government agencies as it looks like many people are at opposites on setting a goal, and how to get there.
And in areas like mine, where gas is $0.50 higher than the national average, you can reduce those times to break even by another 12%. That's almost down to 3 years flat to recoup the extra initial cost on a Prius. And I do have to wonder where they got the figure of $3708 for the hybrid premium on that model. I would have figured it at more like $3000. But I don't mean to quibble...
If gas is $1 higher next year, that break-even time will be down another 20% - the Prius is under battery pack warranty for 7 years at those mileages in the computation, so that's 4.5 years of half-price gas as payback on a Prius purchase as of next summer...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The payback periods claim to figure in the tax credits, but then cite enormous "hybrid premiums" on top of that. But it's not the case.
The Honda Civic Hybrid costs $3,000 more than the regular Civic EX. But the chart shows a $3,600 difference on top of the tax credit. You guys can check the msrp on each car for yourselves.
After I bought my Civic Hybrid last year for $22,000 plus TT&L, I got a $2,100 check from the IRS. That takes the payback down to about 2 years ..... even less if you drive more than 15,000 miles per year like I do.
Those tax credits are smaller this year (or gone, in the case of the Prius), but they still count for something.
BTW, I love that 99 year payback on the Lexus LS600H!
I drive more like 8,400 miles a year. It would take me much longer to reach the break-even point. At least my two choices - the Malibu and Civic hybrid show a tax credit.
why there's such a large disparity in payback periods with the Malibu hybrid, versus the Aura? Ditto the Yukon and Tahoe hybrids.
As for my driving, I'm down to maybe 5,000 per year these days so from a purely economic standpoint, I guess none of the hybrids would ever make sense for me. Unless they start getting to the point that the technology just doesn't boost the price of the car very much.
...were equal to a pure ICE car, I'd definately get one as long as performance was comparable or better. Like all technologies, hybrid technology will become more affordable until it is the de facto standard or obsolete.
...to get the Lexus LS460h. I heard it only gets something like 20 MPG HWY. Geeze, my non-hybrid Cadillac DTS Performance gets 24 MPG HWY. My old Park Avenue will do 29 MPG HWY. Shoot, if the hybrid Lexus is that bad. How lousy is the regular car?
Hey guys - don't waste any good keystrokes talking about "payback time" for the big Lexus.
No one who buys that car gives a darn about payback. Just like they don't give a darn about payback for their second and third vacation homes, or their 60' yacht, or their villa in the South of France.
It's the biggest, baddest, most expensive Lexus. About 1/2 the buyers probably buy it merely for THAT reason alone.
The hybrid is rated at 20/22, while the gasoline version is 16/24. However, the hybrid uses a 5.0 V-8, whereas the gasoline engine is a 4.6. So in this case, I imagine the hybrid is a noticeably quicker.
Also, these are the new, down-rated numbers...the same ones that would sink your DTS to 15/22, or your Park Ave to 17/26.
That 20/22 probably equated to around 22/24 under the old ratings, while the 16/24 was probably more like 18/27. Still, that's an awful lot of money for a car!
The Lexus, as ridiculous and souless as it is, is a "performance hybrid" and can be claimed to not be made for economy. It's MSRP and tech bragging rights. Maybe it will make less of the Lexus devoted stop pointing to every other highline make and making accusations of buying only for badge or dollars...
As far as I know the S-class (S400) hybrid diesel is still on the books for 2010 or so...but it will actually produce some mileage.
I saw a car today, a gas hog type that people buy to show others that they've arrived... with the license plate "I see you seen me" spelled out phonetically.
I guess that makes them feel even better about themselves. Too bad they're wasting so much fuel. No, it wasn't a hybrid.
I've biked 3 of the 4 days this week to work, which is 3.9 miles each way. The day I didn't bike was 95+F w/high humidity, and I needed to pick-up a gal. of milk. Here's my report so far.
- I ride 75% of it on the sidewalk, though in some spots - across 1 small bridge there is no sidewalk or road, besides the 2 lanes; and in downtown the sidewalk is crowded and illegal for riding.
- My main concern is when I'm on the narrow road parts; I had a large dump-truck come with 1'-2' yesterday, of side-swiping me.
- A little rain or condensation makes the seat wet everyday. I live in an apt. complex now and its's a hassle trying to get the bike thru the security doors everynight, so outside it stays.
- Since I have no cup-holder, I don't take my coffee. I end up buying it at work. Also since I have to leave 15 min. earlier, I cut the coffee-making from my schedule. So that cuts into my savings.
So in summary: I estimate I saved $6 in gas, spent $2 of it on coffee, got some exercise, and spent about an extra 1/2 hr commuting per day. A mixed bag. If there was a pop-up thunderstorm late in the afternoon that trapped me here at work, I don't think it would be all that positive. Oh, and I have a few extra leg aches and pains. We'll see if they go away in time.
But since my car depreciates whether driven ($10/day), the insurance is the same ($2/day), and the other fees ($1/day) don't go away, I'm not really saving that much.
I've put together something people can use to measure their pain at the pump.
The first step is to take how much you spend in fuel per month and divide it by your net income per month after taxes. A person(s) making $3,000 a month and spending $150 on petrol would have a pain index of 0.05 or 5%.
So where do you fit in the pain index?
0 to 2.5% - Little or no pain, unless you are in debt up to your eyeballs. 2.5% to 5% - Minor irritation. Most folks should fall in this area. You are watching gasoline prices but the cost is manageable . Your next vehicle should probably be a bit more fuel efficient, however. 5% to 10% - Uncomfortable to very uncomfortable. You probably should be thinking about a more efficient car sooner rather than later. 10% to 15% - Severe pain. Unless you live with your mom or drive a company car you really should sit down and look at your options. 15% plus - This is kidney stone kind of pain. Immediate surgery is needed.
This pain index is just a rough estimate. A lot depends on how expensive it is where you live, your debt load, size of your family and so on. Adjustments would also be needed for people with very low incomes or very high incomes.
We fall in the 2.5% to 5% range so things are still not having a big impact.
Well, if I exclude putting fuel in my girlfriend's LaCrosse, I have a very low pain index of around 1.9% and that includes the recent trip out to Carlisle in my new Cadillac DTS using Sunoco Ultra. Girlfriend's pain index is 0% for the last two months as I've been doing her a tremendous favor out of the goodness of my heart.
"I had a large dump-truck come with 1'-2' yesterday, of side-swiping me. "
Lucky for him. The paperwork would have been murder. :sick: Just kidding, I am glad you are safe. Navigating the roads with a bike is dangerous. It is one of the reasons I will not be taking my bike to work anytime soon. Things are just a wee bit too crazy for me out there on the asphalt jungle.
I would get an electric car before I'd do the bike thing in our town.
Surprise, surprise... gas prices have been coming up at the chats lately. :P
It's Thursday and that means time again for the longest running chat here in CarSpace, the Subaru Crew! The chat opens at 8:45 pm ET and runs until 10 pm ET. I hope you're able to join us tonight for another enjoyable evening with members of the Crew! See you there!
I calculated my pain index at 2.7%. Unfortunately, most of that is spent in the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid car currently for sale, so where you say my next vehicle should probably be a little more fuel-efficient, my only choice would be hybrid, none of which come with a stick, so I won't be going THAT way!
However, I am lucky in that I do a lot of discretionary driving. My initial response to escalating gas prices was to trade cars which saved me close to 50% in gas costs, and the gas hasn't doubled since then, although we are nearing that point. Bottom line is, I will be able to cut back driving if I find myself really needing to save gas money. I won't like it, but I can do it easily, thank goodness.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Well, if I exclude putting fuel in my girlfriend's LaCrosse,"
That gets into that whole pain/pleasure thing. The moderators would probably toss us out if we talked about it too much. If you are happy with the arrangement that's all that matters.
Congrats on the choice Kernick !! As a Segway/Bike commuter for almost two and a half years now, might I offer some suggestions?
1. Try to find a shortcut away from the skinny bridge. You might can go around a block or something a little extra to avoid it. Another option is to walk the bike across the bridge. Will take a little longer, but a guy walking a bike gets driver attention more easily than a rider, whom they tend to "phase out" usually.
2. You carry a briefcase or a backpack daily? If so, just keep a little hand towel or washcloth in there to dry off your seat in the morning. Could even keep the towel in a little "seat bag" on the bike which you could get at a bike shop.
3. There are cupholders made for bike handlebars. Visit a bike shop and get you one. Then get a little timer to start the coffee maker 15 minutes early or whatever and take your coffee with you.
4. Actually, your car does MINUTELY depreciate a little less when you don't drive it, because the miles do not accumulate quite at the same rate. All else equal, a used car with 44,000 miles sells for slightly more than the same car with 48,000 miles. And ask your car insurance people for a cut rate if you are no longer using the car for the daily commute - my company gave me a break when my car stopped being my commute vehicle.
5. As far as "being trapped in the rain" you could do what I did - buy some rain gear. I bought a top and bottom from a guy who had used it on his sailboat. Got the set on craigslist for $40. Keeps me dry as a bone on the rare RARE Phoenix wet rides. Monsoon season is coming up here quickly, so I will use the rain gear a lot more very soon !!!
6. The leg soreness will eventually go away. Mine held on for about 2 weeks, maybe a little longer. ( But my legs look "buff" these days, so it was building muscle. ) I've lost 15 pounds since I started commuting by bicycle, with no other changes in diet or habits. Blood pressure dropped too, and cholesterol numbers improved.
My pain index is slightly less than 1% partly because my commute is short. My wife's index would be around three times that. From the way she complains about it, you would think we were in the 10% range.
We're at the little or no pain level. We have fairly economical cars & we don't pile on the miles. (For example, our 2006 Honda CR-V, purchased new in November, 2005, has about 7800 miles on the clock. I use it primarily to drive to the railroad station, which is 3 miles away.)
Higher fuel prices haven't affected our standard of living. Even so, we're doing what we can to cut out unnecessary trips. Every dollar not spent at the pumps can be spent on something that we enjoy, like good food & wine.
I'm not too sure about the scale avalon set up though. At 2.7%, I am spending slightly more than 1 dollar of every 40 I take home on gas, and when I put it that way it seems high-ish.
Certainly someone spending 1 dollar of every 20 take-home is spending too much on gas, in my mind. I propose modifying the scale a bit: 2.5% is the top end of the comfort/slightly irritating range, 5% should be the severe pain, sit-down-and-figure-out-a-new-plan threshold.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The civic hybrid was available with a manual at one point and I think it still is. If Honda comes out with that CR-Z or whatever they call the CRX replacement it will most likely have a stick as well.
Certainly someone spending 1 dollar of every 20 take-home is spending too much on gas, in my mind. I propose modifying the scale a bit: 2.5% is the top end of the comfort/slightly irritating range, 5% should be the severe pain, sit-down-and-figure-out-a-new-plan threshold.
I did a rough estimate, and figure I actually come in around the 5% mark. :sick: However, part of that is because of those old cars I have, that I have to exercise every once in awhile. If I relied solely on my Intrepid, I'd probably be down to around 3%.
However, my takehome pay is deceptively low, because I max out my 401k. Plus, I don't have a car payment, insurance is fairly low, and my mortgage is a pittance, by today's standards. So while having fuel run 5% of your takehome pay could be brutal for some people, I don't really notice it.
Certainly someone spending 1 dollar of every 20 take-home is spending too much on gas, in my mind. I propose modifying the scale a bit: 2.5% is the top end of the comfort/slightly irritating range, 5% should be the severe pain, sit-down-and-figure-out-a-new-plan threshold.
I did a rough estimate, and figure I actually come in around the 5% mark. :sick: However, part of that is because of those old cars I have, that I have to exercise every once in awhile. If I relied solely on my Intrepid, I'd probably be down to around 3%.
However, my takehome pay is deceptively low, because I max out my 401k. Plus, I don't have a car payment, insurance is fairly low, and my mortgage is a pittance, by today's standards. So while having fuel run 5% of your takehome pay could be brutal for some people, I don't really notice it.
On the seat - maybe cover it with a trash bag every night? Or it it's the easily removable type, take it inside with you at night. Mine has a quick-release.
On the metabolism thing - Jack LaLanne seems to have done fine. I'd rather live healthy 85 years than in poor health for 95.......
Topped off the Sequoia this morning and got the discount car wash. Gas $4.59 wash $5. Logged 135 miles in last 21 days. Most of it going to a graduation this morning. I told my wife's nephew he owes my $18 for gas on that 60 mile round trip. I guess 1.4% won't hurt me too much. The parking lot at the school and church across the road was full. Well over 50% were large SUVs and PU trucks. Poway is one of the high rent districts.
The last-gen Civic hybrid had a stick, the current one does not.
I like you am hopeful that when the CRZ arrives, the hybrid version will offer a manual, but since it will supposedly use the same powertrain as the existing Civic hybrid, I am not holding my breath. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bah the sucessor to the CRX cannot have auto an automatic only drive line. That would be well too Toyota like for Honda. They did drop the manual in the CR-V though...
Wow, I didn't pay attention at first to who wrote this and I thought it was by larsb or someone else, although I think he rides an electric bike and I didn't understand why his legs would be aching.
Anyway, it might seem a little intimidating at first if you're not used to cars and trucks passing within a few feet of your elbow. I've found that after I established a pattern where I'm usually on the same road at the same time each day the "regulars" see me as a commuter who isn't just out exercising and tend to give me plenty of room. I always give a thank you nod and wave to anyone who appears to go out of their way to yield to my bike.
You might do like I did when I first established my route. Get a detailed local map and see what parallel side roads are available that could take you off the main thoroughfare without adding a lot of extra miles. In some cases the side streets I take are even shorter than the main road but not something most people in their cars would take.
On the bridge, I have to pedal across one that is part of a state highway and absolutely no shoulder. I have to travel around 1 mile on this particular road but there's no other way across. It's three lanes each direction. No driver has ever given me any trouble for being on that road.
I've ridden to work 5 days and 152 miles so far this week. At 22 mpg in my car I've saved around $27. I don't ride for the fuel economy. I do it because I enjoy it and it's a great way to stay in shape while only taking an extra 20-25 minutes each way to work than it already does in my car.
The leg and other body parts aches will get better if you stick with it. I remember how awful I felt the first 2-3 weeks when I started riding to work many years ago.
RUG is $3.87 today at the local stations. I'm also in the "little to no pain" index.
tedebear says, "Wow, I didn't pay attention at first to who wrote this and I thought it was by larsb or someone else, although I think he rides an electric bike and I didn't understand why his legs would be aching."
Hey, watch it there !!!
I ride an ELECTRIC ASSIST bike. It will not assist unless I am pedaling. My legs get sore and I have lost 15 pounds because it is GOOD EXERCISE.
The reason I ride an electric assist bike instead of a normal bike is that I live in Phoenix, and at age 45, I have CHOSEN not to pummel myself in the heat and end up a completely sweaty pig at both ends of my ride.
I do sometimes take showers after my afternoon ride, just to cool off. But if I were riding a non-assisted bike, I would need a shower at the end of both the morning and afternoon rides in the hottest part of the summer, when sometimes morning temps at 5:00 A.M. are 90+ degrees.
Comments
Oh Hawaii isn't that big, plus its broken down into many smaller pieces (islands) so they can ride bikes everywhere. Heck I have driven the road to Hana a bike might just be faster.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh and $5.18 for diesel doesn't impress me. Up here in my area I saw diesel for $5.34 yesterday.
The '03 Accord has a 5-speed automatic, and I think both 4th and 5th gear are pretty tall. I wonder if at 55 mph, the engine just isn't revving enough in top gear to have much power, so it might downshift more often, in situations like when you come to a hill, have to pass a slower moving car, etc? At 65, it might rev just high enough that it can do most of its highway driving in 5th gear.
Also, the faster you drive, the further you can coast when you take your foot off the gas, so that will partially negate the increased fuel burned getting up to those higher speeds.
It never ceases to amaze me that Hawaii has "interstate" highways.
The biggest problem I see in Hawaii is the electricity. They produce most with oil. They are used to high gas prices. In April I paid less for RUG in Hilo than in San Diego. They do not have designer gas and probably take whatever the oil companies send them. Shell is almost always the least expensive there. Not the case in CA where it is one of the highest priced.
I bought diesel for my tractor yesterday at $5.19 per gallon. Regular was $4.69 at my local Shell station. I would have to drive 15 mies to get diesel at $4.79 per gallon. I only use about 5 gallons every 6-8 months. Costco was at $4.33 on Tuesday.
Plan on $0.50 per gallon increases in fuel every year from now until we can generate huge massive quantities of alternate fuels. I actually think this 'number' is conservative. A 10-15% increase annually might be more accurate. National Avg of course, specific states may be well higher.
2006 .. $2.35 Avg --> Done
2007 .. $2.85 Avg --> Done
2008 .. $3.35 Avg --> Assured now
2009 .. $3.85 Avg
2010 .. $4.35 Avg
2011 .. $5.00 Avg
2012
2013 .. $6.00 Avg
2014
2015 .. $7.00 Avg
2016
2017 .. $8.00 Avg
2018
2019 .. $9.00 Avg
2020
2021 .. $10.00 Avg
$0.50 / gal increases don't seem like much at all but as you can see they add up
So what do you think happens next? I would guess either a) the truckers go back to work and make what they can, or b) they stay "stopped", the companies and stores don't get their products and they are forced to pay the truckers more.
Sometimes this is the way the market works - it is a form of negotiating. If American truckers stop en masse and for long enough then they would force higher rates also. Either the companies absorb the cost, or they pass it on to the consumer if they can.
The airlines are passing along their higher fuel costs in various ways also.
This demonstrates how a strong president can deal with those who only care about power and profits.
How about it, W?
Pretty different situation - iron ore was mined here, refined here, turned into steel products here. Oil and gas are global, we're paying the same as Europe, etc, don't see how an angry comment from anybody changes that.
Oh the price of Gas
My budget stretches too far
Only half a tank
***************************
Four dollars my gosh
I cannot afford this gas
Can't we just all walk?
***************************
One gallon four bucks
Are five and six coming soon?
How I love my bike
***************************
Anyone care to add a few?
I do think that demand will drop a lot when gas hits $6-7/gallon, people just aren't ready for that. In that same timeframe I expect that lots of developing countries that currently subsidize oil for their constituents will be forced by economic pressures to stop doing so, which will decrease demand a lot worldwide. However, in the same period, oil production will continue to drop.
The net effect? I think we will see sharp rises in the prices for another 3 or 4 years along the lines of what we are already seeing now, then they might plateau for a while.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Why are tax dollars being used to encourage people to drive, or fly then drive more? I know - because each state is looking out for its best interest, rather than the country as a whole. Is this local-selfishness good?
Why does the government sit idly by and let new homes be constructed with oil-heat if we want to wean ourselves off oil?
There needs to be some coordination between these government agencies as it looks like many people are at opposites on setting a goal, and how to get there.
If gas is $1 higher next year, that break-even time will be down another 20% - the Prius is under battery pack warranty for 7 years at those mileages in the computation, so that's 4.5 years of half-price gas as payback on a Prius purchase as of next summer...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Honda Civic Hybrid costs $3,000 more than the regular Civic EX. But the chart shows a $3,600 difference on top of the tax credit. You guys can check the msrp on each car for yourselves.
After I bought my Civic Hybrid last year for $22,000 plus TT&L, I got a $2,100 check from the IRS. That takes the payback down to about 2 years ..... even less if you drive more than 15,000 miles per year like I do.
Those tax credits are smaller this year (or gone, in the case of the Prius), but they still count for something.
BTW, I love that 99 year payback on the Lexus LS600H!
As for my driving, I'm down to maybe 5,000 per year these days so from a purely economic standpoint, I guess none of the hybrids would ever make sense for me. Unless they start getting to the point that the technology just doesn't boost the price of the car very much.
No one who buys that car gives a darn about payback. Just like they don't give a darn about payback for their second and third vacation homes, or their 60' yacht, or their villa in the South of France.
It's the biggest, baddest, most expensive Lexus. About 1/2 the buyers probably buy it merely for THAT reason alone.
Also, these are the new, down-rated numbers...the same ones that would sink your DTS to 15/22, or your Park Ave to 17/26.
That 20/22 probably equated to around 22/24 under the old ratings, while the 16/24 was probably more like 18/27. Still, that's an awful lot of money for a car!
As far as I know the S-class (S400) hybrid diesel is still on the books for 2010 or so...but it will actually produce some mileage.
I guess that makes them feel even better about themselves. Too bad they're wasting so much fuel. No, it wasn't a hybrid.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
- I ride 75% of it on the sidewalk, though in some spots - across 1 small bridge there is no sidewalk or road, besides the 2 lanes; and in downtown the sidewalk is crowded and illegal for riding.
- My main concern is when I'm on the narrow road parts; I had a large dump-truck come with 1'-2' yesterday, of side-swiping me.
- A little rain or condensation makes the seat wet everyday. I live in an apt. complex now and its's a hassle trying to get the bike thru the security doors everynight, so outside it stays.
- Since I have no cup-holder, I don't take my coffee. I end up buying it at work. Also since I have to leave 15 min. earlier, I cut the coffee-making from my schedule. So that cuts into my savings.
So in summary: I estimate I saved $6 in gas, spent $2 of it on coffee, got some exercise, and spent about an extra 1/2 hr commuting per day. A mixed bag. If there was a pop-up thunderstorm late in the afternoon that trapped me here at work, I don't think it would be all that positive. Oh, and I have a few extra leg aches and pains. We'll see if they go away in time.
But since my car depreciates whether driven ($10/day), the insurance is the same ($2/day), and the other fees ($1/day) don't go away, I'm not really saving that much.
The first step is to take how much you spend in fuel per month and divide it by your net income per month after taxes. A person(s) making $3,000 a month and spending $150 on petrol would have a pain index of 0.05 or 5%.
So where do you fit in the pain index?
0 to 2.5% - Little or no pain, unless you are in debt up to your eyeballs.
2.5% to 5% - Minor irritation. Most folks should fall in this area. You are watching gasoline prices but the cost is manageable . Your next vehicle should probably be a bit more fuel efficient, however.
5% to 10% - Uncomfortable to very uncomfortable. You probably should be thinking about a more efficient car sooner rather than later.
10% to 15% - Severe pain. Unless you live with your mom or drive a company car you really should sit down and look at your options.
15% plus - This is kidney stone kind of pain. Immediate surgery is needed.
This pain index is just a rough estimate. A lot depends on how expensive it is where you live, your debt load, size of your family and so on. Adjustments would also be needed for people with very low incomes or very high incomes.
We fall in the 2.5% to 5% range so things are still not having a big impact.
Lucky for him. The paperwork would have been murder. :sick: Just kidding, I am glad you are safe. Navigating the roads with a bike is dangerous. It is one of the reasons I will not be taking my bike to work anytime soon. Things are just a wee bit too crazy for me out there on the asphalt jungle.
I would get an electric car before I'd do the bike thing in our town.
http://www.gemcar.com/
"Since I have no cup-holder, I don't take my coffee. "
They make thirst aid helmets, beer hats and booze belts just for that kind of situation. Just make sure it is non-alcoholic beer or booze.
It's Thursday and that means time again for the longest running chat here in CarSpace, the Subaru Crew! The chat opens at 8:45 pm ET and runs until 10 pm ET. I hope you're able to join us tonight for another enjoyable evening with members of the Crew!
See you there!
However, I am lucky in that I do a lot of discretionary driving. My initial response to escalating gas prices was to trade cars which saved me close to 50% in gas costs, and the gas hasn't doubled since then, although we are nearing that point. Bottom line is, I will be able to cut back driving if I find myself really needing to save gas money. I won't like it, but I can do it easily, thank goodness.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That gets into that whole pain/pleasure thing. The moderators would probably toss us out if we talked about it too much. If you are happy with the arrangement that's all that matters.
1. Try to find a shortcut away from the skinny bridge. You might can go around a block or something a little extra to avoid it. Another option is to walk the bike across the bridge. Will take a little longer, but a guy walking a bike gets driver attention more easily than a rider, whom they tend to "phase out" usually.
2. You carry a briefcase or a backpack daily? If so, just keep a little hand towel or washcloth in there to dry off your seat in the morning. Could even keep the towel in a little "seat bag" on the bike which you could get at a bike shop.
3. There are cupholders made for bike handlebars. Visit a bike shop and get you one. Then get a little timer to start the coffee maker 15 minutes early or whatever and take your coffee with you.
4. Actually, your car does MINUTELY depreciate a little less when you don't drive it, because the miles do not accumulate quite at the same rate. All else equal, a used car with 44,000 miles sells for slightly more than the same car with 48,000 miles. And ask your car insurance people for a cut rate if you are no longer using the car for the daily commute - my company gave me a break when my car stopped being my commute vehicle.
5. As far as "being trapped in the rain" you could do what I did - buy some rain gear. I bought a top and bottom from a guy who had used it on his sailboat. Got the set on craigslist for $40. Keeps me dry as a bone on the rare RARE Phoenix wet rides. Monsoon season is coming up here quickly, so I will use the rain gear a lot more very soon !!!
6. The leg soreness will eventually go away. Mine held on for about 2 weeks, maybe a little longer. ( But my legs look "buff" these days, so it was building muscle. ) I've lost 15 pounds since I started commuting by bicycle, with no other changes in diet or habits. Blood pressure dropped too, and cholesterol numbers improved.
Anyway: good luck, good job, and keep it up !!!
Higher fuel prices haven't affected our standard of living. Even so, we're doing what we can to cut out unnecessary trips. Every dollar not spent at the pumps can be spent on something that we enjoy, like good food & wine.
Certainly someone spending 1 dollar of every 20 take-home is spending too much on gas, in my mind. I propose modifying the scale a bit: 2.5% is the top end of the comfort/slightly irritating range, 5% should be the severe pain, sit-down-and-figure-out-a-new-plan threshold.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I did a rough estimate, and figure I actually come in around the 5% mark. :sick: However, part of that is because of those old cars I have, that I have to exercise every once in awhile. If I relied solely on my Intrepid, I'd probably be down to around 3%.
However, my takehome pay is deceptively low, because I max out my 401k. Plus, I don't have a car payment, insurance is fairly low, and my mortgage is a pittance, by today's standards. So while having fuel run 5% of your takehome pay could be brutal for some people, I don't really notice it.
I did a rough estimate, and figure I actually come in around the 5% mark. :sick: However, part of that is because of those old cars I have, that I have to exercise every once in awhile. If I relied solely on my Intrepid, I'd probably be down to around 3%.
However, my takehome pay is deceptively low, because I max out my 401k. Plus, I don't have a car payment, insurance is fairly low, and my mortgage is a pittance, by today's standards. So while having fuel run 5% of your takehome pay could be brutal for some people, I don't really notice it.
2) I have a cushy seat with a nylon covering. Wouldn't dry out too well.
4) But I probably eat a little more which costs more, so it offsets the depreciation savings.
5) I have rain gear, but our rain usually involves a lot of lightning. No thanks to riding with wet-brakes (50% efficient?) and in the lightning.
6) There is one downside though to increasing your metabolism. Your cells only divide so many times - the faster your metabolism the quicker you age.
On the metabolism thing - Jack LaLanne seems to have done fine. I'd rather live healthy 85 years than in poor health for 95.......
I like you am hopeful that when the CRZ arrives, the hybrid version will offer a manual, but since it will supposedly use the same powertrain as the existing Civic hybrid, I am not holding my breath. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Anyway, it might seem a little intimidating at first if you're not used to cars and trucks passing within a few feet of your elbow. I've found that after I established a pattern where I'm usually on the same road at the same time each day the "regulars" see me as a commuter who isn't just out exercising and tend to give me plenty of room. I always give a thank you nod and wave to anyone who appears to go out of their way to yield to my bike.
You might do like I did when I first established my route. Get a detailed local map and see what parallel side roads are available that could take you off the main thoroughfare without adding a lot of extra miles. In some cases the side streets I take are even shorter than the main road but not something most people in their cars would take.
On the bridge, I have to pedal across one that is part of a state highway and absolutely no shoulder. I have to travel around 1 mile on this particular road but there's no other way across. It's three lanes each direction. No driver has ever given me any trouble for being on that road.
I've ridden to work 5 days and 152 miles so far this week. At 22 mpg in my car I've saved around $27. I don't ride for the fuel economy. I do it because I enjoy it and it's a great way to stay in shape while only taking an extra 20-25 minutes each way to work than it already does in my car.
The leg and other body parts aches will get better if you stick with it. I remember how awful I felt the first 2-3 weeks when I started riding to work many years ago.
RUG is $3.87 today at the local stations. I'm also in the "little to no pain" index.
Hey, watch it there !!!
I ride an ELECTRIC ASSIST bike. It will not assist unless I am pedaling. My legs get sore and I have lost 15 pounds because it is GOOD EXERCISE.
The reason I ride an electric assist bike instead of a normal bike is that I live in Phoenix, and at age 45, I have CHOSEN not to pummel myself in the heat and end up a completely sweaty pig at both ends of my ride.
I do sometimes take showers after my afternoon ride, just to cool off. But if I were riding a non-assisted bike, I would need a shower at the end of both the morning and afternoon rides in the hottest part of the summer, when sometimes morning temps at 5:00 A.M. are 90+ degrees.