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XJ6 Sovereign Jaguar

We are looking a a 1991 Jaguar XJ6
Sovereign...99,000 miles, body and interior in
great shape. Going to a mechanic tomorrow for eval.
Last owner 3 years said she had no problems (were
not buying it from her) Asking $7925. Am I asking
for for a lot of expensive problems down the
line???? Please Help!!!!!
«1

Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well, it's a used luxury car with a good number of miles on it. If you think it's going to be cheap to maintain and repair, I don't think that's realistic. There is a REASON these beautiful cars are so cheap after all.

    So get the car thoroughly checked out top to bottom, maintain it like a fanatic (don't skimp on maintenance), find a good shop to take care of it, and you may have a good experience. But you might as well know now, that IF it breaks, it's going to be expensive.

    If you can't afford, or don't wish to spend, about $100-150 a month on maintenance and repairs, then don't buy it; otherwise, if that budget is okay, that's probably what it will end up costing you, presuming no major problems come up. If the previous owner had good luck, that's a good sign. You might check the previous maintenance records and see what they spent on it. If there are no records, that's not so good.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Posts: 765
    No expert on pricing 'down there', but $8,000 seems a bit high to me. I know the 6s are getting more than the 12s right now, but is that fair market?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    It's about book wholesale, presuming that Jaguars bring book values, which may not be true. But the price is about right, yes, for a '91.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Here's what to look for on the car:

    Expect it to leak oil at the base of the distributor. But if it's a WET Leak (I.E. quite a bit) then you can plan on a head gasket soon.

    Rear Suspension: Make sure that it has been converted from self-levlling. If not it will fail and will need to be converted to normal.

    Diff: Make sure it doesnt whine under decel

    Make sure that everything works and look for rust on the decklid and hood.

    If it's nice.. $7900 isnt a bad price.

    The 90's arent as bad as people seem to think.

    Bill
    Questions? E-Mail me.
  • gkelly3gkelly3 Posts: 38
    Bill: what about Jaguars that have undergone engine/transmission swaps? The most favored seems to be replacement of the I-6 with a smallblock Chevy V-8, with a GM automatic. How do these hold up?-is it woth the trouble? AND-do the converters get the drivetrain lined up right?
  • I don't need headaches. How come the bluebook is so much higher for these cars than what I read here. I have been given chance to purchase this car for $5,000 raised by $1850.00 (half the Kellybook dealer difference) for a total asking price of $6,850. One meticulous owner but car has 113,000 (possibly 128,000?). Have no problem with keeping up 3,000 mi oil changes and 15,000 tuneups but what do you suggest. Oh yes How much does this scheduled maintenance cost on average and what about this rust linkage I read about?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    The price seems fair enough.

    Prices for used cars are ultimately decided not by Price Guides but by supply and demand. Since there are more of these cars than there are people who want them, the price drops until the number starts to find buyers. This is what happens with used Jaguars. They won't bring retail blue book because sales resistance is high (low demand). And, of course, the prices are low because of the reputation. So when it comes time to make an offer on one of these cars, you have to decide if all those people who won't pay a high price for the car are right or not. Something is obviously scaring the majority of buyers away, and this is worth investigating thoroughly. In some cases, the prejudice against a certain car is not so well founded (let's say, Mazda RX-7s or MGBs or Audi 100s or Infiniti Q 45s).

    My advice usually is this: if you can't stand the thought of spending $100/150 a month average (you'll have good months and bad months) to maintain an older luxury car, then don't buy it, because I feel that will end up being the reality in most cases, whether it be old jaguar or old Benz. Of course, to this $150/month you should add insurance and fuel costs.

    The car may be cheap, but the maintenance requirement is the same as when the car was new.

    Given the price of a new one, $150 a month doesn't seem so much, even $250 a month...you won't get a monthly payment or a lease for that. If you need a car that costs less per month, shop elsewhere.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Umm..

    Bad idea. These cars are best avoided In My Experience..

    Bill
  • jshort11jshort11 Posts: 1
    I am looking to purshase a Jaguar XJ6, and my question is fairly simple. What is the eraliest year that one could make a used XJ6 purchase, and get the advantage of the Ford quality control improvements? I've done some research, and I've heard all the horror tales. I'm mentally prepared that this car will not be nirvana, but I would love to own a Jag, and I would like to give myself the best chance at getting a good one without overspending. Would the '92 or '93 models be too risky? Thanks for any and all help.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I'd say 1996 on up to be certain of reasonable service, and under 50,000 miles. These have not yet proven to be high mileage cars.
  • nixriquenixrique Posts: 2
    I am planning on buying a 1994 Jag XJ6 with 104k Millage. The asking price is $ 7.5k. Could someone who is well knoledgeable with this cars have any information that may help me ? The car is in excellent condition. My only concern is I know older jags have common electric problems, and due to the nature of monies invloved, I would hate to buy it only to spend more on fixing it rather than enjoying the ride. please advise. ...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well, you're getting the car at quite a bargain price, so there's room for you to put some money in it and still bail out in one piece if the car goes sour on you. You might examine all the service records to see how the car has been behaving. If you're expecting Benz reliability and Toyota repair prices you're really in the wrong car I think. But if you're willing to throw $100/150 a month at the car to keep it tiptop, then you've got your eyes open and you can enjoy the car.
  • nick780nick780 Posts: 1
    I'M LOOKING AT AN 1995 XJ6 SOVEREIGN, WITH 47,000 MILES ON IT. CAR LOOKS GREAT BUT I;M CONCERNED
    ABOUT REPUTATION AND RELIABILITY. THE ASKING PRICE IS $20,000, IS THIS TOO MUCH FOR MY WIFES
    DREAM CAR.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Again, as I have posted in another topic, my only reservation about the newer Jags is that they have not demonstrated the ability to hold up after many miles....if you buy a clean 1995 and sell it before 100,000 miles, you might do fine...although you will suffer a lot in depreciation...fortunately for you, the car has already gone through most of it's depreciation---but in five more years you will probably lose another $10,000 in value.

    That's why I advice people to buy with very low miles, and use the car a great deal up to 100K--in that way you get your money's worth, rather than just sitting on a rapidly depreciating liability.
    The same is true for other "luxury" cars, too, like Ferrari, Bentley,7-series BMW...they sink like a stone for 10 years or so it seems.
  • cofccofc Posts: 6
    I just found a 1990 XJ6 soverign. British racing green, tan leather - exactly what a jag should look like. The outside is in great shape. On the inside, there are a few little problems like the cloth on the roof is sagging a little in the back and on the sun roof. I took it out on the road and it seems to handle fairly well. Several observations though:
    1)When you turn the steering wheel, it makes a very slight/grinding/moaning sound.
    2)whenever you get the rpms up over about 3400, it makes a squeling sound, sorta like what a loose belt will make. But it only does this at that rpm or higher.

    Other than that, I can't tell as if there seems to be anything else wrong with it. It does have a ton of miles - 160 K. They are asking 5K for it, which to me doesn't seem to awful, and I think I can talk them down a little. Is this a good deal, you think? I haven't taken it to a mechanic yet, but planning on taking it to the dealership here soon. Also, this won't be a daily driver, just something to drive around like on the weekends and the such. So, even with the high miles, should I still be really weary about the 150 a month maintanence? Just wondering. Any advice would be great.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well, it's cheap enough...I'd certainly have it thoroughy checked out top to bottom and get a list of what it needs. Given the high miles, the car isn't going to ever be worth much, so you don't want to be putting money into it...i'd rather see you spend more and get a lower mileage car. At 160K, the car is basically used up...at least as far as the original designers and builders intended it to go.
  • I have a chance to purchase a 1990 XJ6 Soverign. Dear green w/ neutral leather. The car has 108,000. The car was wholesaled to the dealership where it sits now. It was a new car trade. There are no maintence records on the car. It looks and rides great. There are no noticable defects. All power options work fine. They are asking $4500 for the car. Is it worth it??? What types of maintance items can I expect having to do. I keep seeing references to monthly maintence costs of 150 per month. This car will not be an everyday driver, but something for the weekends and longer highway trips. I have always been a Benz guy, I have owned a couple of 300 E's. I have also owned BMW 7 and 5 series (early 1990 models) as well as Saab's. How does this Jag compare to those models?? Any help will be appreciated.
    Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I'd say you'll find the Jaguar much nicer riding, quieter, better appointed and certainly prettier, while you'll find the BMW and Mercedes better handling and more reliable. If you can live with a Saab, you can probably live with a Jaguar, as they are both prone to spotty reliability and high repair costs in the 1990 model year.
  • I have had a 1986 Jaguar XJ6 for 5 years. It is still running fine with around 107,000 miles on it. The average maintenance fees was around $1,500 a year, including new rear-brake (an over $1,000 job) and snow tires.

    You would know the true meaning of driving pleasure when you drive it. The ride was great.

    Sometimes I have problem to start the car after a week of not driving it when the temperature dropped to levels well below 10 degree C. But all it needed was just a boost and it can run again.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Good for you, and thanks for the feedback....I was always struggling with dead batteries on my Saab, too, but in that case I think they placed it too close to the turbo and cooked it about once a year!
  • I am contemplating buying a one-owner 1986 V12 - owner was former Jag mechanic-always garaged, etc.
    57K, $10 grand, very clean. Car has Euro gray market engine (no poll. controls)and fuel injection-- welcome anyone's comments on performance-maintenance-things to worry about, etc. I plan to drive it frequently but not everyday. Appreciate any comments. A. Aycock, Atlanta.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    It wouldn't be my first choice, because of the V12....which is complex, a gas hog, hard to work on, of dubious reputation (statistically---your results may vary) and expensive to repair. I'd be much more inclined to encourage you to buy any Series III XJ6 sedan with fuel injection, low mileage and complete service records. OF course, if this Jag mechanic would warranty the car for 6 months, you might take a risk, otherwise, I suspect you will soon be buried in it financially. Tell you what, go price a few major components and service procedures (e.g., new head gasket, front and rear brake job, new ignition module) and see how you feel about it.
  • helton3helton3 Posts: 1
    The alarm system automatically engages a minute or so after I close the doors. When I open the door, it begins to click and unless I put in the key and turn it on or crank it, the alarm goes off. If the passenger side opens first, it goes off. Is there a way to turn off the alarm other than with the Key?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    The dealer needs to program you a remote clicker...

    Bill
  • I wondering if it is a good idea to buy a Jag that was in a flood about a year ago. I know the owner really well, he is a friend. I know how much work he put into it and it runs great. But , I'm not sure if there will be any big problems to look out for. He has not had any major problems with it so far. It only has about 48,000 miles on it and has a new interior. He bought it for $3,600 and put about $3,000 into fixing it up to run. He is selling for $5,000 to me. I guess is sounds like a good deal to me. I know that it runs great after about a year of him fixing it up. But should I buy it?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Sounds cheap enough and you know the history, so sure, why not?

    But I wouldn't sink any real money into this car, as it is, I presume, on a salvage title. You have to be disciplined about getting rid of it if it starts going haywire.

    If you got two reliable years out of it, you could junk it and still have gotten your money's worth.
  • Good point. If it ends up going haywire is it better to junk it or take out the good parts and try to sell them. The interior is fairly new. I could make money off that right?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Yes, but parting out a car is a real pain for the average citizen. Invariably, people want the wheels and tires, etc. and then you have an immobilized wreck on your hands. And it's a lot of work removing some parts, and most people don't want to pay you enough to do that work. This is why wrecking yards do it assembly-line style and often with cutting torches.

    You have to look at it this way. Any Jaguar sedan or coupe that is out of warranty and just a little bit shabby or "needy" is one fender-bender away from the crusher. The cars are too expensive and complex to restore, given their low resale value.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Posts: 1,598
    Plus parting out a car in your driveway won't endear you to your neighbors, or to code enforcement.
  • tlsmatlsma Posts: 1
    Local Ad: 91' xj6 Sovereign 26k miles British green, 1 of a kind. for $12,995. Is this a good deal? Are these cars dependable? How expensive are the repairs? Just looking for some honest advice. I don't know very much about Jags. HELP!!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Is it a good deal?

    No, it is grossly overpriced, about double what it should be.

    How expense are repairs?

    Major repairs are very very expensive, maintenance is like with any comparable luxury car like a Benz or BMW.

    Are these cars dependable?

    Hard to say with this year. Probably with the low miles and if you conduct very diligent maintenance, you'd be okay with it. But not at the asking price. If the car passes all mechanical scrutinies, and it pristine, and you love it to death, maybe you could go up to $8,000, but that's really all the money in the world for this car and retail price. Then enjoy it until around 60K miles and then bail out, is my advice.
  • I just came accross a gorgeous 1990 Vanden Plas with 46k miles, and we are talking $7,500. Am I insane? We have a TT Roadster as our main car, and need something with four doors and a real trunk in addition. I was considering late 80's and early 90's monster Benzes with about 90k miles, and now this just popped up in my search. If I do decide to go for the Jag, what would be a deal stopper? I hear the '90 Jags were the first truely reliable ones...
  • Also, at what point does that infamous self-leveling suspension give up the spirit? What would be the symptoms? And finally, do you know of any specific web sites that deal with these models?

    Hmmm - I haven't used my torque wrench in years....

    Thanks for any advice!
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    I think the self leveling suspension gave up the ghost on the boat ride over here. Jaguar's official fix when anything relating to that system goes out is to yank the whole dang thing and put conventional springs in there. That's the best course of action, and it wouldn't hurt to do it before it goes out and your back bumper starts kissing pavement over every bump in the road, if you can afford to do it then.

    As for webs ites, I've posted this link before, but....

    www.jag-lovers.org

    Just be sure you check out the "modern" model page and not the "XJ" model page, or you'll find yourself reading about Jags from the 70's and 80's, and not the XJ40 you're looking at.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,711
    If you need a 4-door luxury car, buy a Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. Can't go wrong.
  • Checked out the site - found that the '90 wasn't that scary. But we ended up buying an '89 Benz (560 SEL) with 97k miles yesterday. It's beautyful!
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    That 90 VDP.. that was VERY cheap for that car actually... I just sold a 1990 VDP with 48K on it for $9,500 and have since turned down 2 offers for what I was asking for the car (Which was more $$..)


    That Sovereign is not a real steal... full pop retail with those miles. $10-11K is more like it. 100K+ mile cars in perfect condition break $5K at dealer auctions. That car is worth, realitywise, $7,500-8K wholesale if its just in the wrapper and 10Kish retail.


    Bear in mind... VERY low mileage Jaguars bring HUGE premiums.


    A better buy than that 91 would be a 1994 with 70-90K on it for about $10-12K (Color,condition, mileage, etc..) or a mileyish 1995 without a Sunroof (Say 70-80K miles) for $13K or so.


    But if you have to have ultra-low miles in a Jag, they willbring large amounts of money. I sell LOTS of these cars...its the really really low-milers that bring enormous premiums and inturn canbe turned around and sold for enormous money.


    Do check out http://www.jag-lovers.org/modern and know what to look for. The big basics on a 1990-1994?


    AC Works and blows strong out of center vents and doesnt leak out of defroster flaps.

    Differential is silent. (Noisy? $1,000-1,500 to put right)

    Self-Levelling is either working right, (It WILL fail) or has been converted. ($500-700)

    Base of distributor is NOT wet and oily (Head gasket leaking) ($500)


    Smoke puffs on startup are normal on 93-94s. $500 to fix it if it bugs ya.


    Those are the biggies....


    I did originally write those pages at JL BTW :)


    Bill Weismann

    1995 VDP 139K miles $675 in non-warranty repairs since new

    2000 VDP Supercharged 22K (Come heeere little Mustang GT...hehehe)

  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    "I did originally write those pages at JL BTW :)"

    Having read them (several times), let me congratulate you on a job well done. I have yet to find any marque specific webpage as thourough and friendly as J-L, and you and the rest of the guys who put time in on it need to be thanked.
  • guzzettaguzzetta Posts: 3
    I have the opportunity to pick up a seemingly well maintained 90 VDP for $4500. The catch is the miles - It's at just over $100K. Should this be a bright enough red flag to warrant looking elsewhere?
    Thanks.
  • guzzettaguzzetta Posts: 3
    ...with tan interior.

    Just in case that makes a difference to the value proposition.
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    Your comment above mentioned that XJs without sunroofs are worth less. I wondered if lack of headroom would actually make the non-roof cars more desireable to many. I ask because the Jag must surely be one of the lowest roofed sedans extant. And the cavity for the sliding roof seems unusually thick in the back.
    Do you sort of specialize in the XJ and prefer them over the S-class Benz?
    I think the latest four headlight models with the nacells for the lights are exceptionally pretty,but I just feel too cramped in them.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    rea: Thanks :) Another guy has done a lot of updating.. but it was a ton of work!

    Guzzetta: Follow the info at J-L and above.. $4,500 is awfully cheap for that car. 100K is no worry of the other stuff is right.

    Merckx: Yeahup. The lack of a sunroof (Realistically, 1995s only) kills their value. $13-14K should buy you a nice 1995 without a sunroof.

    Compared to an S-Class? Cheaper, prettier, much more reliable, and when they DO break, it isnt $1,500++ to fix em.

    I do sprt of specialize in them.. I am low in stock right now. I only have 4 or 5 available for sale.. usually we try and keep 10+ 6-cyl cars around.

    Bill
  • guzzettaguzzetta Posts: 3
    I read somewhere recently (perhaps on another forum on this site) that I should expect to put $250 in monthly maintenance into a car like this. Would you agree?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Posts: 1,598
    Shifty I saw a mid-'70s XJ6 today which got me to thinking about how handsome these cars are, which got me to thinking about how even more handsome they are without the big bumpers, which reminded me that the earliest ones ('69?) were available with a four speed. Ever driven one with a stick? How would it compare with the Mark II or the Mark X? Sort of in the middle? My brother's Mark II with Chevy was a blast, the Mark X comfortable but ponderous.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Gee, I never did drive one with a stickshift. Personally I think it's awful to have to shift such big cars and I'd imagine it would kill their value.

    I wouldn't touch a 100K Jaguar from the early 90s with a ten foot pole unless it was pretty cheap. $4,500 is plenty, that's a fair price. That's what Bill buys 'em for, not sells 'em for, so he's no fool either.

    Better yet, I'd just save up and buy a low mileage one, because you will have spent the price of a low mileage one soon enough. I'd rate Jaguar maintenance costs equal or higher to a Mercedes, and in durability of the body/interior/hardware there is simply no comparison in the early 90s. Now it is closer however, but as the cliche goes "only time will tell" and so far, when the years roll by, the Benz has always come out on top.

    I know, I know, you meet people who say they haven't had "much trouble" with their older Jaguar, but it never fails, I get in their "no trouble" car and find about 25 things wrong with it that they have blissfully ignored because they are in love.

    This is not unlike the people who marry into your family now and then.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    That hasnt been my experience. You need to find a good, competent Jaguar tech to work on your car who's familiar with XJ40s. Remember, they share more in common, parts-wise, with a BMW 735i than they do with a 1987 XJ6 or an XJS.

    I'd say $1,000 a year for repairs and maintinence should be fine assuming that the car doesnt have the problems I mentioned above. These are either great cars, OR, they can rund and drive nicely, and be hiding $1,000 in repairs. So look it over carefully.

    Bill
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Yes! Start with a GOOD ONE, that's the trick, and find a COMPETENT Jaguar mechanic, is trick #2.

    This is what I always encourage people to do "without exception" if they want a pleasant Jaguar experience. But too many people jump on high miles cars that aren't carefully and thoroughly inspected, or they fall into the hands of real monkeys who don't know a Jaguar from a Pontiac (despite their claims).

    If your shop fixes Jaguars, Porsches and Buicks, watch out.

    Also, stay away from the 12s, but that's another topic.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,711
    Even in the mid- to late-80's, did Jags still use Lucas electrical systems and Smiths gauges? These things seem to have an alarmingly high failure rate.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Nah... if its clean... 3500 wholesale.. MAYBE 4K if it loks like a 97.

    Now, tomorrow we're delivering a 1990 VDP. Sold for $9,500. It has 48,000 REAL Miles on it and I would DARE you to find anything wrong with it. And you know how well I know these cars.

    Door seals are new, Leather, wood, Mechanics, Paint, chrome.. perfect. Leak and rust free. New Pirellis. New AC system. The car is a total stunner. My Jag mechanic has been all over it and I spent $1,300 on the car with him (Damned compressor blew.. and the customer wanted new door seals. Didnt NEED em, but he wanted it perfect and who am I to blame him)

    But, again, Miles and condition are paramount to value on these cars...

    Bill
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Now Bill don't you go DARE me to find things wrong with a car! That is one of the few things in life I am very good at--lol!

    Hey, you should buy my girlfriend's 1999 Lexus. It has 2,900 miles on it!
This discussion has been closed.