Hyundai Sonata Front Suspension "Thunk"
I've begun this Discussion topic since the thump/clunk issue relating to the Sonata suspension has been largely addressed in these forums as relating only to the rear suspension of 2006 models and a few early 2007s. However, it also seems to be appearing in the front and/or rear suspension of 2007 models - namely in mine.
I have a Limited- manufacture date Aug 2006 which has the "thunk" largely in the right front, but exists to a lesser degree at all three other suspension positions. So far, I have examined on my own (since Horne Hyundai in Apache Junction AZ said, "We can't hear anything.") the lower control arm strut bushing (as advised in other posts for clunking Azera's) without seeing any visible space as the writer of that post did in his. Next I plan to retorque the upper strut mounts to factory torque and will report my findings. Since the problem is easily reproducable on certain bumps on which I travel almost daily I plan to ask the dealer mechanic to ride with me while I drive over those areas instead of simply dropping the car off at the dealer as I did last time.
In the mean time I'd like to open this up for anyone else who has experienced the "thunk" in front positions (or rear positions if it also occurred in the front and both were fixed, or you have information which might relate to front suspensions) for 2007 models. As others have reported, when we have evidence that this is not an isolated incident then we have a much better chance of getting Hyundai to address it as an issue. Thanks for your input.
I have a Limited- manufacture date Aug 2006 which has the "thunk" largely in the right front, but exists to a lesser degree at all three other suspension positions. So far, I have examined on my own (since Horne Hyundai in Apache Junction AZ said, "We can't hear anything.") the lower control arm strut bushing (as advised in other posts for clunking Azera's) without seeing any visible space as the writer of that post did in his. Next I plan to retorque the upper strut mounts to factory torque and will report my findings. Since the problem is easily reproducable on certain bumps on which I travel almost daily I plan to ask the dealer mechanic to ride with me while I drive over those areas instead of simply dropping the car off at the dealer as I did last time.
In the mean time I'd like to open this up for anyone else who has experienced the "thunk" in front positions (or rear positions if it also occurred in the front and both were fixed, or you have information which might relate to front suspensions) for 2007 models. As others have reported, when we have evidence that this is not an isolated incident then we have a much better chance of getting Hyundai to address it as an issue. Thanks for your input.
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In response to "comet64": regarding your rear thunk that was fixed. Do you know what they did to fix the problem? Did they replace the shock portion of the strut with different ones, or just tighten something? If you do not know, could you possibly find out? Thanks in advance.
FYI: My "thunk" problem is able to be demonstrated every time on a road indentation (or weries of them)like a pothole that still has pavement in it, or a smooth manhole cover that has not been leveled to the road surface well. Holes which are severe also cause tire and body noise which tends to mask the "thunking" to some extent. I recently had occasion to drive on a road that was a solid city block just full of temporary paving and patches due to a utility construction project. It constantly "thunkity thunked" all the way down the block. It sounded like a 10 year-old car with worn out ball joints rather than a new car with only 3000 miles on it. Unfortunately it is a long way from a dealer.
My next project is to find a street that will produce the "thunking" near a dealer.
Is there another dealer near you or one that has performed the fix that you are aware of? I'm sure you wouldn't mind driving a ways to get this fixed. Correct?
By the way, after years with Nissan products (4 vehicles total), I was so impressed with Hyundai's new product line, we have now added a 2007 Santa Fe Limited for the wife to drive.
I'm a little surprised at the lack of others coming forward with similar problems. In a way that is encouraging? Perhaps just an adjustment rather than a defect with the parts??? I hope.
I was just a little dumfounded that a mechanic would say such a thing.
I suspect the problem is related to faulty struts as it occurs in a sign number of Azeras and sonatas. i found several under-torqued bolts in the right front suspension of my azera but the "thunk" "clunk" "rattle" doesn't go away.
I drove my mother's 1998 Plymouth Breeze today, and it was pleasure to drive around town without having to avoid every single road imperfection. I hope someone comes up with a solution soon. :sick:
The local dealer has a 2006 Azera that they can't sell because of front suspension noises! :confuse:
So, three out of three Sonata's make thunking noises on filled pot hole type bumps and Hyundai wants to ignore it. I guess I've got my answer about what good that big warranty is. Nothing at all. Just denial. I should have gotten a Toyota.
(All this aside from creaking seat backs (the headrest support posts - inside the seat))
One owner (altazera) recently posted that his dealer replaced the entire strut assembly and it fixed the problem. I have attempted to contact him in the forum and through the "buddy' system within the forum. But so far no response. Several owners in other forum topics have had success getting their problems fixed by presenting proof to their dealer of another dealer's successful fix of the problem as reported by another forum contributor. That is my aim here to get the dealer's name who fixed the thunk by replacing the strut assembly and present it to my dealer and say, "See, here is a dealer who has fixed this problem. Please do it to mine also."
In the mean time my thunking gets worse with increased miles. My 2007 has 10.5K now and thunks on almost all manholes, and various bumps and road surface imperfections. It's beginning to sound like an old worn out car that needs new ball joints.
I urge you not to wait to report your problem. I suggest scouting a road which faithfully reproduces the problem which, if possible, is near the dealer you are taking it to. I found a residential street with a hard packed unpaved shoulder with washboard less than a mile from the dealer (in Tempe AZ) which provided a good 200 ft of repeated thunking. I took the loaner car they gave me to the area on the way home and it too thunked - as well as another car off the lot the service manager tested. Still Hyundai refused to do anything about it. Please keep us posted on your experience. I'm confident we will get our problems fixed if we band together.
Upon some recent "bump tests" I noticed that the thunking seems to occur at the beginning of the extension of the suspension travel rather than the compression. Many "up first" bumps do not cause the thinking. But every single "down first" bump produces it. And most repetitive washboard surfaces reproduce the thunking, but mostly if the bumps fall withing a range of moderate. Severe washboard (an Arizona hard dirt road in need of grading) appears quiet - or as quiet as would be expected from a car with rather poor suspension sound isolation as Sonata's have.In other words there is noise, but not the defect related thinking noise on severe washboard.
My non-mechanic conclusion: a shock (strut) internal valving defect.
The factory rep was this week taken for a ride and it was successfully demonstrated in two different cars. The factory rep said he would like to ride in my car as well. So we will be doing that as soon as he is back in town in early Feb (he is having surgery or it would be sooner).
Other Sonata and Azera owners (same suspension design) are urged to take their cars to washboard areas. Turn off the radio and listen when going below 30mph (less competing road noise) over paved bumps especially sudden depressions like sunken manhole covers which do not clank on their own, or most any kind of bump that go down before going up since the thunk comes from a suspension extension rather than compression - and report your findings here. Hyundai can only be in denial until the evidence mounts to undeniability.
To address their comment about it not being a safety issue: Other forums document how Hyundai says this about every issue -- like a rotting frame because of an opening that lets in water and salt and can't get out -- and the car won't pass safety inspection! That's not a safety issue? Yet they are trying to dodge that one too.
I have an appointment on Feb 19th with a district rep (at Hyundai of Temp AZ). I will not settle for an answer like this. I have written Hyundai (registered mail return receipt) documenting the thunking issue from the beginning. It only gets worse with time. If the rep dodges the bullet this time I will do as I have stated in that letter - take action according to the course of binding arbitration. If it goes this route I would appreciate information identifying others with the same problem. I'll take the car to an ASE certified mechanic and find the problem regardless of cost and then go to my lawyer and let him handle it from here. I'll get the diagnostic costs and legal fees back in the settlement. Just for some negative publicity if Hyundai runs the denial route I will get lettering done at the local sign shop for my back window advertising the reality of Hyundai's warranty integrity versus their advertised quality and warranty - and send Hyundai the photos of it as I drive all over the metro area. This should also bring others out of the closet with the same problem. Hyundai might possibly see the logic of fixing a few cars rather than be faced with a major recall if the issue gathers too many participants.
The dealer called me last evening to say that the rep could not make it. I informed them that I had been patient enough and would therefore be starting the arbitration process in the mean time while waiting to get it looked at again. I got a call about two hours later saying the rep could come after all.
I took the regional rep (who seemed like a nice enough guy, and in no way had one of those "I already know I'm not going to do anything for you" personalities. Quite the opposite. He seemed forthright factual, and competent. I took him for a ride to a previously scouted nearby residential road which has pavement breaking off at the edges and hard packed rutted desert dirt outside that-- a perfect surface to demonstrate the suspension thunking. It thunkety-thunked its way down the road for about 10 full seconds. It was impossible to deny - which he did not. He immediately said he thought it was strut related and when we got back instructed the service manager - a real peach of a guy, and a good problem solver -- to order two new strut inserts for the front end as a place to start. I got no run around at all as I was prepared to do. Of course, all this is BEFORE Hyundai corporate gets their hands on the area rep. We will now see what new strut inserts (the shock part) does and I will report back.
In the mean time I urge everyone to document the problem as early as possible requiring the dealer to write up the complaint and response each time, keep all documentation. If you get a denial as I did at first go to another dealer. Assume the corporate attitude is denial until unable to do so (the general mode of American business anymore). Explain that others are also having these problems. Require the dealer to test other cars on the lot. Find a test road surface that will faithfully reproduce the problem near the dealer. The burden of proof lies with the consumer. Be friendly, professional - not an emotional complainer (like we tend to get on the forums sometimes) but business-like and respectful while requiring a thorough investigation with documentation. Something I found out from the attorney yesterday is that the outcome at the dealer does not have to be positive - just documented. Keep emotions in check and document, document. Then it will all come out in the wash as a buy back or replacement (not in this case if it is a manufacturing defect) from arbitration. Hope this helps.
As an aside: I currently own a 2006 Honda Civic bought new and by 4,000 miles BOTH rear shocks needed replaced due to leakage of the hydraulic fluid inside. It had terrible rear suspension noise. I found, due to research, that Honda has had faulty shocks/struts for years and they never changed vendors or warned their supplier to tighten up quality control. If they did it didn't help. So much for Honda quality!!!
I would like to clarify one of your statements -- probably just terminology - when you mentioned that all you hear is "normal suspension noise." I assume you meant tire noise and body noise transmitted through the suspension. Suspensions don't make noise unless there is something loose or defective. I have made this distinction in listening for and describing this issue - mentally filtering out those noises and describing only what should not be there. That is probably what you meant anyway. Just clarifying since my wife (and no doubt lots of other people, without knowledge of auto mechanics, cannot separate the two. It's "just noise when you go over bumps" to her. A heavier, well sound insulated car is silent over bumps and transmits almost nothing to the passengers. Go take a ride in a new Lincoln Town Car for comparison. As the car gets lighter it usually has less sound insulation and more road noise gets transmitted into the cabin potentially masking mechanical problems. Perhaps you know all this already. I used to be a mechanic on cars, busses, tractor trailers and motorcycles at different points in my life so I've heard a lot of descriptions from customers who meant one thing and said another - leading you in the wrong direction for diagnosis unless you could "read through" their descriptions.
Sorry about your Honda problem. I know I DID bring this issue to Cunsumer's Union's attention (testing facility for Consumer Reports) as well as Car and Driver. I hope you did too.
With regard to the Civic yes, Consumer Reports sent me a questionaire about my then new 06. I did reply on some questions negatively and if they sent me another today I would be even more negative since the shocks were only the first problem.
I have following this thread with interest and appreciate you taking time to share your experience. Just to be clear, I have interpreted your "strut inserts (the shock part)" comment to mean the authorized repair provides replacement dampers only, ie., all other parts comprising the front 'strut assembly' will be re-used. If that is the case, it will be very interesting indeed to learn a replacement damper with same part # successfully solves your problem. Please do post your results, thanks!
In regard to the subsequent post about the "insert." That was the language used by the district service rep, and when the service manager at the dealer was questioned about whether these struts came out of the car as a unit with the coil spring captive he said, "No, it required disassembly with a spring compressor." Again I will get details on all this and report back.
It is interesting to note that Consumer Reports, in the just-out annual car issue, lists "suspension noise" in the Sonata as a negative factor -- the only car in the whole issue with such a notation.
This is a warranty item. Make an appointment with the dealer so they can fix it under warranty.
I, too, am probably headed to a regular mechanic -- at the least -- after the failed attempt to fix it by replacing the struts and a conversation with the service manager at Hyundai. I do not want to go into all the details here for fear of losing his cooperation and his intercession on my behalf with Hyundai since Hyundai gives me the impression that they will try to ignore this problem away or claim it is "normal."
I had a conversation with an attorney last week who gave me some alternatives as to how to go about the problem. Since he confronts big corporations all the time and knows the "Deny everything. Pay only what you are forced to" game. He said, "Obviously, the suspension noise comes from a defect since suspensions do not make noise unless there is something wrong. All mechanical systems are diagnosable and fixable. It is a matter of how expensive it is to do so that is at issue here." He says we have three routes if Hyundai will not agree to diagnose and fix the problem in their shop. "Tell them you have consulted an attorney and he feels that the arbitration panel (binding arbitration process you probably agreed to when you bought the car) would rule in your favor and ask them if they will agree to "buy back" the car without going to binding arbitration. (A note here: buy-back price is based on mileage when the problem was first taken to the shop.) They will probably decline unless they know you are 100% committed to really doing it if you cannot come to some sort of agreement as to how to fix the problem. BE COURTEOUS, and business-like. Make the car the problem, not them. Try to get both of you on the same side against the problem. Next, tell them you are willing to help in the diagnosis of the problem. Ask them if they will reimburse you for documented expenses if you successfully diagnose, fix on your own and demonstrate to Hyundai that it is fixed." Then find a competent mechanic who can do it. If they say, "No" then you must be able to take the expensive route -- the one Hyundai is banking that you will shy away from because it might cost you some money up front. That is, hire a lawyer (or query one as to whether he will take the case on a percentage of the judgment basis (when you get paid back and then some). Then diagnose and fix the problem by a mechanic or hire an automotive engineer (lawyers used to dealing with recall issues can refer you) who will diagnose the problem and write it up in automotive engineering terms." This, then, my attorney said, becomes the basis of a class action lawsuit against Hyundai. This is the time all of us get together. This is something that is going to cost Hyundai a LOT of money if they get judgment against them and now have to recall several model years and will want to avoid. It is likely, however that if you get negative results from this conversation that if you actually go out and get an attorney to write you a letter to Hyundai corporate you will all of a sudden start dealing with the "money guys" instead of the area service reps who are likely to start devoting more than canned denial answers to the problem.
I'm there - and have access to an attorney (so do you if you have PrePaid legal - only $17/month(I think... I've had it for years) for access to attorneys who are knowledgeable in the area of question). This is where I got an attorney who is going to net me about $300,000 (after expenses) for a motorcycle accident. Yes, I have some hand and arm injuries that may be for life. So, no it is not just a free ride. But attorneys know how to confront the system - and prevail if you have a legitimate issue. Heck, soon I might have some money for an engineer. That night perk up Hyundai's ears.
So, we're all very interested in what your mechanic says. I will be having the above conversation with Hyundai soon and will report back.
E-mail to the dealer: "Hi Jim,
I have an 06 Sonata that I purchased used a couple of months ago and it has the right front "thunk" in the suspension. I have done some reading on the internet at several sonata forums and it seems that almost every sonata has this problem. before I bring my car in, could you tell me what you know about this problem? I would like to get this taken care of, but it seems that so many are having problems doing so, and some say that Hyundai is calling this a normal sound, It obviously is not. Please fill me in on Lia's stance on this issue. you can either email me or give me a call on my cell at 518-xxx-xxxx. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks, Nathan"
I remind you that I just had both front struts replaced without fixing the problem, and now the service manager has grown suddenly cold on me. He is likely getting the "deny and hope I will go away" routine from Hyundai. I have contacted Hyundai corporate to update them, and inform them that the dealer only tried one parts replacement as an attempt to fix the problem - very little effort put into it after 6 out of 6 Sonata's tested exhibited the problem. After all: ALL mechanical problems can be diagnosed and fixed. They are, by nature, fixable.
I asked corporate to voluntarily buy the car back informing them of my attorney 's opinion that a arbitration board most likely would not consider the suspension clunking to be a "normal or acceptable part of the car's operation." They have committed to call me back by Monday or Tuesday March 31 or April 1st. If they refuse buy back or further diagnosis I will spend money to have it diagnosed (which I probably will do next week anyway just to see what the problem really is) at a local shop, then open up a binding arbitration case to either force a buy back or a pay back of costs and damages. If it goes either way then everyone of you also benefit from the documentation. I have, courteously and professionally, let them know I will not just go away by being ignored by Hyundai or the dealer.
I will update next week.
Meantime, I have filed the first step in binding arbitration: filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau Auto Line, known as "Alternative Dispute Resolution" in the "2007 Owner's Handbook Supplement." This details the arbitration process and your individual state's laws concerning this process. My demands are"fix the problem or buy back the car."
This process opens negotiations with Hyundai with the BBB as arbitrators. If we fail to come to agreement during this phase then the case proceeds to the American Arbitration Association panel for a binding ruling.
I intend to have hard evidence to back my claims from certified mechanics -as well as video of the car going over bumps that reproduce the problem and audio from a mini digital recorder taped to the strut tower/offending part (hey, I just gave myself an idea!) - as well as the claims from all of you others on the forum who also have the same problem.
I'll update as we proceed.
As for a "suspension shaker" I've considered a simple one inch travel reciprocating saw with a special insert to push against the tire - quiet and powerful. Comments?