Tires

silvercoupe

I just rotated the tires on my 2000 Accord LX Coupe (7500 miles). Immediately noticed a vibration thru the steering wheel at 70-75 mph. Jacked the front up and spun the tires. They are both out-of-round. So I switched them back to the rear. They are Bridgestone Turanza EL41's. Have you had any similar experience with these tires, and is there any remedy? (Now I remember why I canned the last OEM Bridegstones on another new car)

tireguy

A tire which is out of round will almost never work itself back to round. It usually gets progressively worse. They're not the best tires out there. I think after all the recent expose's (no accent mark here) targeted at the wonderful Bridgestone-Firestone Corporation, we've been given a pretty insightful exhibition of the lack of quality control at this Japanese company. It's a wonder how the Blizzak line turned out alright.
Though car dealers seldom make adjustments on tires, perhaps it would be worth your while to make a trip down to your friendly Honda dealer and see if they can fit you with some replacements, since the tires are obviously defective. After spending only 7500 miles on the back of an Accord they should have less than 1/32 wore off--translation: new tire.
--chris

silvercoupe

My local Honda dealer sent me next door to NTB on the out-of-round issue. NTB says that I have to go to Bridgestone-Firestone. Oh Joy!!! I'll let you know how this turns out next week.

Sure wish that I had made the dealer install Michelins before I bought the car. My mistake that I am now paying for.

wdaveo

My husband has asked me to post this question for him. What is the best way to clean alloy wheel rims? Thanks!

joe166

There is a whole topic on this in this forum.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?c=Maintenance&f=0&t=432

pat455

Thanks joe166!

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

wdaveo

I will let my husband sort through that forum.

danielghamm

I have been driving Toyota Camrys for 11 years and
enjoy the car. All 6 of them have had steel wheels
except for the 1995 and the current 1998 which has
alloy wheels vs. steel wheels. Irrespective of the
amount of tire balancing that I have done the
alloys seem to shake at 70 to 76 mph. The steel
wheels were always smooth.
I am now ready to purchase an Avalon and the only
concern I have is "Do I buy the alloy wheels which
look better or do I get the steel wheels which
ride
better?"
Anyone else with this same problem?

vernlew

Tireguy,
I have enjoyed reading all your tips of tires and tire care.
But, I must respectfully disagree with the implied statement you made in post #440.
"lack of quality control at this Japanese company"
I believe the defects came from an American plant, which leads me to think there is something wrong with the US management and workforce, which may not be entirely under the control of the parent company. Have you ever had problems with the tires made in Japan?
If you give a soldier all the training and tools to complete a mission, is it your fault if he fails? Maybe, BUT it could have been due to poor execution on HIS part.
Vern
(CDR Lew)

vernlew

I owned a 97 Camry which I mounted both non-factory alloys (TSW) and factory steel wheels. I experienced front end vibrations, not eliminated by multiple wheel balancing attempts. See post#433, I now think it was probably due to the tires being out-of-round...Dunlop D60A2's and BF Goodrich Touring T/A's, both rating well with Consumer Reports. I think if I would have mounted Michelins instead, that this would have probably eliminated the problem. Tireguy can probably verify this. So, buy whichever wheel you like, just make sure you ask the dealer to give you Michelins, if they are one of the OEM tires for your Avalon as part of the deal.
Vern

tireguy

vern,
You're right. I believe the defective tires were manufactured in the United States. I just have a slight bias against any facet of the Japenese tire industry. I would better myself by eliminating this prejudice, but old habits die hard, ya know? For years Americans have associated Japan with the production of cheap stuff. But with the refinement of such vehicles such as the Honda Accord and Acura NSX, that era has apparently passed. A few years back, I paid over a thousand clams to fully equip one of my mountain bikes (handmade in PA, Cannondale) with the finest components money can buy, Shimano XTR-- 100% made in Japan.
But I still hate Bridgestone/Firestone. That bias is based solely on my experience selling, installing, later dealing with the consumers of, and sending back, their products.
Just go Michelin. Though a red-blooded American I am, I cannot deny the French kick our butts when it comes to tires. But buying tires shouldn't be based on patriotism, it should be about getting the best possible fitment for your application. If you want to support your country, join the Marine Corps :-)
Good point, Vern.
-----Chris

tireguy

If you still have your ears on, I've recently discovered a product by Castrol which amazed the heck out of me. I forget the exact name of it, maybe just "wheel cleaner," but all you have to do is spray it on your wheels and the dust residue hoses off (a little wipe afterward doesn't hurt). With my 2000 Jetta 1.8T, the front wheels turn black after two days of driving. So I was very pleased to find a product which actually works.

tireguy

I agree with Vern. It was probably just coincidence that your tires were out of round on both sets of alloy wheels. Did they both come with the same tire brand? A lot of tire companies will allow a certain degree of radial runout in production. When tire shops try to send these back as defects they call back and say they're not defective at all, then send them to a different seller. Not to name any companies in particularGOODYEARDUNLOP, but you'd be surprised.
If you've never known better, you wouldn't notice the runout as you drive. But obviously you've walked in greener pastures.
Alloy wheels are better than steel wheels not only because they are more attractive, but they are lighter. Less unsprung mass equals crisper handling; less rotating mass creates less inertia, resulting in quicker acceleration and braking. Steel wheels are not more round by comparison. They all come from the factory almost perfectly round. However, the steel wheels are more durable. If you live in an area where there are a lot of potholes and tend to hit them head-on at high speeds, you might want to consider steel wheels. Also, when steel wheels do get mangled, they are very cheap to replace. You can get a good used steel wheel (cosmetic condition is irrelevant since your hubcap will cover it) for $30-$50. A decent-looking alloy wheel, if you can find one to match, will cost four times as much.
But I still prefer alloy wheels, mainly for the cool factor. And like I said, if your main reason for wanting steel wheels is for their trueness, you're discounting alloys for the wrong reason. It's all about the tires, my friend.
---Chris

mazman1

Firestone gets caught!

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000829/ts/tire_deaths.html

tireguy

Being out of the industry for a few months has dulled my wits. A thought just popped into my mind which should have been there instantaneously upon reading your post. A lot of late model Camrys came from the factory with the General HP400AS, the epitomy of low quality tires. As a matter of fact, this is probably the most poorly designed tire to be fitted as original equipment on any car built in the past decade. If your shaky Camrys wore these tires, I can safely say we have pinpointed your problem. I've replaced these tires with the Michelin MXV4 Plus many times (205/65R15 90H, same on the Avalon) and had several customers stop back, not to make any purchases, but to chat with me about how great the car drives with real tires. It's amazing how enthusiastic people are to talk shop with a tire guy once the've discovered not all tires are created equal, knowing first hand where he's coming from when he says, "If you're using the pricepoint tire as a reference and, based on such, can't justify spending $110 for the Michelin vice $50 on the General, you're not the right person for these tires." I would never sell a premium tire to someone whom I didn't feel could appreciate them. BFG Touring T/As (priced in the middle) would treat any disconnected driver just fine. It's not about money, it's about hooking up the thinking, researching elite with the goods, while letting the "tires are tires" people save some money to spend on pay-per-view professional wresting events.
---Chris

wayn1

I'm new to Edmunds and have a question for tireguy.I own a 2000 Lexus RX 300 with Goodyear Integrity tires (225x70R16) and would like your opinion and any suggestions you have about these tires. I like quiet running tires but also need a tire that is good on wet and snow covered roads. (I live in Massachusetts). Thanks
Wayne

ktchiao

Michelin LTX M/S tires.

Many guys suggest that.

bblaha

The LTX is pretty much THE tire for SUVs when cost is no object.

tjw

Michelin LTX are definitely a great choice, but you might want to consider the AT over the MS. AT's have a more aggressive tread pattern and do well in dry, rain, or snow. Just put them on my daughter's Explorer and was amazed how quiet and smoothly they rode.

bblaha

The AT IS more aggressive because its intended for more offroad use. The MS (Mud and Snow) also does exceptionally well on dry road, rain, and snow.

Either is a great tire for SUVs. Unless the RX300 is going offroad though, I'd probably still get the MS.

armtdm

Who wants to bet that the corporate name Firestone will be non existent by Dec 31st. The only way out of this one is bankruptcy. guarantee it. Like AH Robbins and a host of others with these kind of lawsuits, bad PR etc. they are history.
No way to survive and their employees are dumb enough to go on strike. Not producing tires will simply makes their jobs go away quicker.

butch11

Disagree-they will just change their name to "Deathstone" and sales will take off.

billy9

On my 56 car which weighs 3200 lbs, I have (4) Nanco Caravan bias ply, 4ply nylon, 2 ply nylon side wall. They are marked F78-15ST and ST205/75D-15. Load range C (6 P.R.) and say "Max load 1820lbs @ 50psi cold". My question is what is a good pressure range to fill these tires at when they are cold to get the best handling. I know radials would be better, but the guy I bought it from put them on new and paid $90 a piece.

avlv

Just had my dealer remove the recalled firestone tires. Replaced with the goodyear rt/s tire. I noticed allot more weights on the rims. I once read that the dot marked on the new tires was a mounting guide? Is this true and if so where should it be in reference to the valve? If I am correct would an improper placement result in the increase balance weights?

spokane

I have to agree with Armtdm that it's difficult to imagine Firestone's return to good corporate health. However, Firestone's very poor record for almost all types and sizes of radial tires during the 1973-1978 era represented a far broader quality problem than is their current debacle. Their non-radial tires were apparently OK but my information during that time was that virtually every radial Firestone tire was plagued with obvious tread separation, blisters, leakage and/or dimensional irregularities ....although we did not hear of a significant number of fatalities associated with those many millions of defective tires. Yet, with Bridgestone's rescue, the company survived. Could it be that the Firestone survival during the 1990's was due almost entirely to OEM sales rather than aftermarket sales? Perhaps only a few of us remembered the extent of the 1970's problems. If the public's short memory is the explanation, then perhaps Firestone can re-emerge as a major tire supplier.

flybri

Hello!
I have read all the tire questions/answers. It took awhile, but I have learned a lot.
Does anyone know why the tires that came on my 99 Camry (Goodyear Integrity P195/70 R14 90S)
do not have DOT Number’s ?

tireguy

The dot is just a reference to make balancing easier. On most tires, painted dots are left by inventory clerks, and mean nothing. On Goodyears, the dot designates the low spot in the tire, and can either be matched up with the high spot in the rim (new factory rims usually have a sticker marking it) or the valve stem (the heavy spot in most rims). If the sticker isn't matched up with anything obvious, it doesn't matter. Like I said, it's only to make it easier for the technician to balance the tire. When used with new rims which designate the high spot, it should always be matched up, because this will ensure a "match mount," where the high spot in the rim is matched up with the low spot in the tire, creating the most round combination.
---chris

tireguy

Unless you're driving on BLEMs, which have had the DOTs defaced, it's very unlikely that your tires do not have DOT #s. Goodyears usually have them on the back side (the non-white side). They are not stamped on both sides. It is a 10 to 11 digit number which is preceded by D-O-T.

flybri

Thanks for the Info!
I’ll have to get under the car and look on the inside sidewall of the tires.
You brought up an interesting question.
Is this “defacement “ of DOT #s done intentionally on BLEMs?

silvercoupe

Finally got my local Bridgestone-Firestone dealer to look at the tires that I thought might be out of round (after repeated phone calls and three trips by there). Three of the tires were ok, but one had a wobble. They replaced it. In the process they threw away some of my hubcap retainers and backed my car into a stack of tires.

Man, I will never own another set of Firestone or Bridgestone tires. The tires may be ok, but the service is terrible, to say the least.

merg1

What's the best tire rotation pattern, including the full size spare? I have a 2000 Dodge Caravan.

vac23

Check your owners manuel. There should be something about that in there.

mazman1

Here is an article that appeared in the Friday
Sept 8 issue of the NY Times about the Ford-Firestone Tire fiasco. Decide for yourself if Ford and Firestone are hiding anything from us!
www.nytimes.com/2000/09/08/business/08SAFE.html

vernlew

Bought a set of Pilot XGT H4 for my wife's Lexus GS 300...they are great H-rated, well wearing, smooth tires. Tried the Dunlop D60A2 JLBs on my Toyota Camry...eventhough highly rated by Consumer Reports...never could get them to balance correctly...always had steering wheel vibration...so pay the extra $$$ (you can special order them at Sam's Warehouse)for the Michelins...you will be happy...I'm sure Tireguy will confirm this...
Vern

slorenzen

Thank you!

I priced them at Walmart(special order) and they were $452.00 installed. I went to a local tire store and asked if he could beat/match, and he priced them at $441.00. I don't know if Walmart is as careful installing as this place, so I'm a little more comfortable this way.

These are fairly pricey tires....I hope I don't regret it...

Scott

pat455

tireguy works at Walmart....

(at least he used to, what's up tireguy?)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

silvercoupe

Tireguy did work at Sams, while he was going to college. He still checks in here occasionally.

pat455

My mistake, thanks silvercoupe!

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

carnut30

...I bought a set of these for a 1993 SAAB 9000 CS Turbo in 1995 based on the rating by Consumer Reports. They started out OK but lost wet traction when only 30 % of the tread was used up (the dual tread compound scam also done by Bridgestone and Goodyear), and became so squishy when half worn (probably due to internal ply separation) that I gave them away.
kauffman@hslc.org

tireguy

Silvercoupe for clearing that up. Yes, I worked at Sam's Club for 4.5 years, from just before college till just after. They are owned by the same company, but are not the same. I would not even take my car to Wal-Mart for an oil change.
I agree completely with vernlew. The Pilot XGT H4 would be the perfect fitment for an enthusiast-owned Avalon. IT is probably the best handling all-season tire you can get. I wouldn't expect it to last much more than 35-40K miles, depending on how you drive. These are performance tires, and will wear as such. I would definitely do it. As a matter of fact, I can't wait till my MXV4s Which came on my 2000 Jetta 1.8T wear out so I can fit it with a set of V-rated Pilots. The MXV4s are incredibly smooth and provide good wet traction, but I need a serious performance tread to complement my Eibach springs. The MXV4s just weren't designed to take 40mph on-ramps at 75mph.
I used to love customers like you--guys who knew a simple upgrade in tires would transform their family sedan into something so much cooler.
Did you decide to go with the 215/60s? I would.
--Chris

slorenzen

Yes, I found a shop in Eugene that will install the 215/60's for $441.00 complete, including a front alignment(toe-in is not good). Thanks for your feedback on the Pilots...


Scott

frag235

You've probably discussed this before, but what do you think of Michelin X-ones on a late model 4-cylinder Honda Accord? I'm looking for a quiet-running tire that's good in the wet....any other suggestions?

butch11

X-One is an excellent tire for about any condition. Have 35K on a set and they have at least another 35K on them. They are very good handling-do not squall in hard turns and do not break loose on wet roads. They are reasonably quiet and perform very well in snow.

Check out how they are rated on www.tirerack.com these ratings make sense to me. Check around for pricing. If you can not get a deal locally, order them from tirerack.

sneville

What replacement tires do you recommend for a 1998 Volvo X70. They came with michelins - MXV4 which have worn thin now at 45,000 miles. I don't know the difference between the available MXV4+ and Pilot XGT H4, both by Michelin. Have heard that some Michelins are poor in rain. Live in the SF Bay Area so need a versatile tire for all conditions. Heat and snow.

Thanks

sneville

Bretfraz,

I meant to say Volvo S70, not x. Sorry for the confusion. Your comments are very helpful. Think I'll go with the MXV4+ since they are in stock and I don't want to compromise on the adverse conditions.

Appreciate the advice.

carnut30

...with free advice. Bridgestone Turanza H that I owned lost wet traction when only 1/3 worn due to the dual-tread-compound scam. Dunlop D60-A2 did the same and also suffered internal ply separation when half worn. I gave them away. Check about 5 posts up. kauffman@hslc.org

carnut30

...Michelin has test results against the Aquatred II showing wet traction after 40,000 miles of wear. There is no comparison, since Goodyears are subject to the dual-tread-compound scam for the last 23 years or so. Also the original Aqua I and II have spreading main grooves. When these are worn any ability the tire may have had in standing water is gone. Michelin actually advertises vertical-walled grooves and full-depth sipes. kauffman@hslc.org

butch11

Hate to sound like a broken record-but I have X-One's with 35K on them and the wet traction is still superb. Had MXV4 energy tires before and from day one they were awful on wet, snow and dry cornering-squalled like stuck pigs. If you pushed the MXV4's on any wet surface they broke loose so easy it was unbelievable. X-One's are vastly better in my opinion. They are also great in snow. Check www.tirerack.com for users input for these tires.

Would not put MXV4's on my car (97 accord I4 w 105K) if they were free. Tireguy disagrees with my experience on the MXV4's-I say we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

butch11

Told my brother to buy X-One's for his Avalon-he came back with a set of Pirelli tires becaue the X-One's did not meet the speed rating requirements for the Avalon.

How can the speed rating of a tire be much of a factor since it is virtually impossible to drive at over 80 in very few places in this country without getting a ticket.

Anybody got any clues. Something more than just speed must be involved.

silvercoupe

I have these on my wife's 97 Accord LX. They are great.

I spoke with Sams about putting the X-One's (X Radial Plus at Sams) on my 2000 Accord LX Coupe, and they said no because of the speed rating. I then called the local NTB and they said that they would have no problem going down to a T rated tire (118 mph) on this car. It came with H rated (130 mph) Bridgestone EL41's. They ride rough and are very loud.

I'll have NTB put the X-One's on as soon as I go over 20k miles on the Bridgestones!!!!