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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >The Aura sales did not increase one iota because of the comparisons at dealer lots.

    WSJ:
    The move had little impact on Aura sales, and GM has now ended the effort.

    "Little" is different from "not one iota." Do you have another source for that statement?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Do the Fusion windows open almost all the way like the Mazda6? What about others who say theirs do not open all the way?

    image
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Do the Fusion windows open almost all the way like the Mazda6, shown below?

    No illustration showed up on my computer but the glass sticks up about 4 inches above the window sill.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    No illustration showed up on my computer but the glass sticks up about 4 inches above the window sill.

    Look again, you should see it now...it took me a few tries to get the image to work. But 4 inches would obviusly be a lot more than the Mazda.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    My 03 Accord sedan rear windows do not go all the way down. The position of the rear doors in relation to the rear wheel usually reduces clearance, so either you get a short window (back to front), or the wider window will not go all the way down. Usually you end up with about the same size window opening.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The car was never worth $23,150 to begin with. It was perhaps a nice value in the $18,000+ to perhaps $19,000 range. You got it for $16,900 before other considerations for the card rebate, which aside of normal price without having a credit card from GM. So you got a bit of a discount. The 23,150 is more what I would expect to pay for a V6 Camry or other Japan make. It is price, as in real value of the car, in and out, which is most important. Look, the Sonata is a nice car, but quite a Japan make yet. Let's call it an 85% car, and instead of paying 24,500 for Japan make, you paid 20,825 you are about even before resale consideration. You buy it for $19,600, it is pretty small discount, when considering the resale value. Would more likely have to go below $19K on the buy price, invest the difference spent in some stocks, or take other considerations, like the long warranty, to get too much ahead on that deal. It is all in how you look at it. If the car is 110% in your eyes, then yeah, such a deal it was.

    The Malibu Maxx was the most interesting of those models. Sort of a car which could be a keeper, as there are so few of them around, I bet people give it the eye some times. And it was not only different, I personally liked the look more than the regular sedan - bet others did too. GM had overpriced it though, which I think would shy people away. L
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Better engine
    Yes, the Accord has more power than the Sonata, and the Camry V6 has more power. How else are their engines better than the Sonata's? Personally, 6.6 seconds 0-60 and 147 mph top speed is more power than I need, so I'm not willing to pay extra for more power.

    better interior
    I like the looks (based on photos) of the Accord's interior better than the Sonata's, although I don't like the Camry's interior all that much. But the difference is not something I'd pay extra for.

    better layout
    I like the layout of the Sonata just fine. The controls are very intuitive. I don't see those on the Camry or Accord being better to the extent I'd pay extra for it.

    better engineering
    Care to quantify that?

    better gas mileage
    Actually the fuel economy numbers are very close. So that's worth some $$$ over time, but a fraction of $5000, to me at least.
    Sonata: I4 MT 21/31, I4 AT 21/30, V6 AT 19/28
    Camry: I4 MT 21/31, I4 AT 21/31, V6 AT 19/28
    Accord: I4 MT 22/31, I4 AT 21/31, V6 AT 19/29

    better dealer service
    Highly variable. There are excellent (and poor) Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai dealers.

    better wheels
    How so? Some models of Accord, Camry, and Sonata have steel wheels. How are those significantly different? For the alloys, I find those on the Sonata very sharp-looking. I wouldn't pay extra for other wheels.

    better manufacturer
    How are they better, and that helps you how?

    better transmission
    If the new Accord's MT is as good as in the past, then I see an advantage there but not one I'd pay extra for since I would almost certainly get an AT on this class of car. And on that, I hope that Honda doesn't repeat the problems they had on the AT on the previous-generation Accord, for which the AT was recalled. The Sonata's ATs are smooth and offer manual shift, so it's not a difference I'd pay extra for.

    higher wages. Probably due to pay differences between American and Korean workers
    Sonatas sold in the U.S. are made in the U.S. What are the comparative wages between U.S. Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai workers?

    Lower cost to repair from certain accidents
    Since I pay the same deductible no matter what brand I own, that is moot except wrt insurance costs. And there is some difference there, but it would have to be substantial to get close to making up a $5000 difference.

    This may be worth $5K to certain people.
    Yes, I agree, some people will happily pay $5000 or more (actually much more counting interest or opportunity costs) for the factors you mentioned or others. And as I said, it's their money. I happen to have other uses for mine. :)
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Had the Opportunity to take an EX-I4 5spd manual out for a test run yesterday up in Chicago, IL.

    Exterior:
    When I first saw spy shots of the Accord, I actually liked the front end and I thought it was more agressive and bolder than the 7th generation Accord. In person I still like the new front end better than the current model but I was a little less impressed with it. The lights themselves give me a 98-02 Accord feel and go back to the "Accord" look that most of us remember but I don't like the fact that the lights stick out on the sides of the car. I'll also say that I find the Accord looks a LOT like the Sonata from the front when you see it in person and I think that's mainly because the Accord finally has a real "grill" and that the Sonata and Accord share similarly designed headlights. (But the Accord's from way back in 1990 had them first IMO) The bulging headlights give the Accord a "bug eyed" look from the side..almost like the car is wearing huge eyeglasses or something. I also think it's a shame that Honda doesn't make fog lights standard on LX-P and EX-14 models because the agressive front end looks strange without the fog lights found on V6 models. The area where the fog lights would go looks like an afterthought. I do find the side profile of the Accord attractive and I particularly like the chrome accented door handles on V6 models. The car has a more upscale look to it than previous Accords. I don't have much of an opinnion on the rear end, it's neither bad nor great in my eyes so I'll say that's a good thing considering I didn't like the 03-05 rear at all.
    Funny thing is, I like the LX-Ps 16 inch alloys better than the EX model's 17s. :surprise:

    Interior:

    I have always been a fan of the 7th gens interior and I do like the 08s as well. The 7th's was more simplistic and better designed IMO. Honda also dropped the electrolumincent gauges for 08 which is a shame. The gauges do look sportier than the 03-07s though.
    The interior materials are a solid mix of soft and hard plastics. The top of the dashboard in particular has some very hard plastics yet they don't look cheap at all. The radio controls, interior door knobs and center console are similar in design and feel to the Civic. The materials are no better IMO than the 7th gen which isn't a problem considering the 7th gen was the best in it's class (only the Passat is better) The cloth seats of the EX I drove reminded me of the cloth found in the 1990-91 Accord (anybody remember those days?) I liked them because they were supportive and comfortable and a lot better than the c cloth found in my 2005 Altima. The cloth had a "suede" feel to it that Accord haven't had since the glory days of the early 1990s.

    I didn't sit in the back seat, but I did look back there and the car appeared to be roomier than previous generations. LX and LX-P models are Full size sedans and EX models are midsize. I will say that the back seat of the Accord didn't look any roomier than my Altima 2.5S.

    Features:

    From what I could see Honda hasn't really added any "techy" features to the Accord as opposed to the 7th gen. Bluetooth is only available on navigation models, push button isn't offered at all and HIDs aren't either. I don't really expect them to be considering a top of the line Accord is still $2000 less than the comparable CamTima. On the safety front Honda has finally caught up with the Sonata by offering VSA standard on all models, which is great IMO.

    Transmission/Engine:

    Like always Honda delivers BIG on engine/transmission refinement. The engine is smooth and has lots of power when you need it. I never felt at anytime that I needed to rev the car up to get it's power. The engine is QUIET though, so quiet that a couple of times I'd stop and have to push the gas to even realize the car was running. The shifter is smooth as silk and has the usual Honda precision that you expect. The feel and linkage of the shifter is much better than what Nissan has to offer and I think only Mazda comes close or exceeds the feel of the Accord's shifter.

    Ride:

    Seeing as I live in the city of Chicago now I didn't get the opportunity to drive the car out on highways and Interstates like I would in Spartanburg, SC so all of my driving impressions where on city streets. The streets of Chicago are ROUGH but not as bad as say NYC. That didn't stop the Accord from riding quite well through the city streets though. The ride is still firmer than say a Camry, but it's a little less form than past Accords I have tested. Potholes and crevices in the road where taken with stride and the car always remained composed with little if any jiggle.

    Overall:

    I'm very impressed with the car and I find it still to be a class leader. I've never really considered a Sonata because I don't like it's interior nor do I like the styling but I'm going to give it a test drive next weekend to compare. So far I'd still rate the Accord higher than the Altima, Camry (including the SE) and Optima and I'd only wish that Honda would add more techy features to the Accord (bluetooth w/o navigation, fog lights, push button start, etc.) but other than that I really did like the car. It is bigger, but doesn't feel any bigger when you drive it (it's not Avalon-ish IMO)

    So if ever 7th gen. Accords (or any previous generations) were considered benchmarks, I'd say the new one continues that tradition.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Yes, I agree, some people will happily pay $5000 or more (actually much more counting interest or opportunity costs) for the factors you mentioned or others. And as I said, it's their money. I happen to have other uses for mine. :)"

    Yes, I am one of those people who believe I'm getting the $5K worth "betterness" for the reasons I mentioned. $5K over 7 years of ownership is a small price to pay for a vehicle I have to live in day in and day out.

    For me the $5K over many years would be a non-issue, but I realize for some how it could be an issue.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I understand. For some folks $5k or even $10k (actual cost of $5k today, over many years) is a small price to pay for the "betterness" they see in a car. Someday, when I'm done paying tuition costs for my 3 kids and funding my 401k to the hilt to prepare for early retirement, I may feel the same way. :)
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    You gave a very good review. Thanks! When I saw the new Accord, I was happy to have bought the current model. Just to not like the inside or the outside as well, though the seats feel a tad bit better. As for the exterior when compared to the Sonata, Hyundai now wins, IMHO. Oh course, just on looks, the Fusion/Milan looks kinda cool. The Altima I have finally gotten tired of. The interior foot brake is not anything I would want, nor is having a CVT transmission. Guess you could get a stick. To me it seems Altimas are overpriced these days. The look is no longer all that fresh anyway. They are relying too much these days for styling by plastic headlamp and tail lights for changes. Some like the Accord bugged-out eyes, are just awful. L
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Look they are not going to give you a SAME car for $5K less money. The cost to build is way too close for anyone to be able to do so. Once again, a Sonata is a good car, but it is not a same car. And only a fool pays retail sticker for any car, including a Sonata. (OK rare occasions the stick is a fair value - in mid-sized cars reviewed here all should have discounts available ) There are always ways to save money, be it buying a used car, buying the next smaller car, or buying lesser car. An Impala costs less than a CTS, but then again, it is a lesser car. Will save you over $10K to do so however, if costs savings is the goal. L
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There's huge differences between an Impala and a CTS--not just price. They are different classes of cars entirely. Within this mid-sized family car class, the differences are much smaller.

    If saving money is the goal, you can buy a real nice 2007 Taurus for around $10k, or a year or two older for even less. But it's not just saving money--it's getting a car you like and that meets your needs, for as little money as possible.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    BINGO! It is all about the car. If a person truly believes their car is the same as some other more expensive car, and are very well happy with it, then it is in fact the best deal for that individual, in that they are pleased. Now to convince people of some difference between their cars and others is going nowhere. So I am dropping it as of today.

    On a different note about these mid-sized cars, I do believe looks wise the Sonata is a contender. Some are saying the new Accord has a Sonata like front. Well, it may, but dang what is up with those eyes. Now I am thinking they are giving an advantage to other makes, Hyundai included, by just going to strange. Base solely on looks the Sonata is now looking better than is the Accord. I almost forgot the "Most Improved Award" in stying award. This must be awarded to the person or persons at Subaru which finally got at least a decent look to the cars, such as the Legacy. In some colors, in my opinion, it looks rather nice, when compared to all the rest in class. And thank God, they changed the Tribeca. Whew! :surprise:

    Anyway, the Sonata looks good to me, as did the previous generation design. In the looks department, one could say to their eye, she is better looking than the Big Two, or is that Three Japan makes. Of course that is subjective. L
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    And keep in mind the Sonata is due for a major re-fresh next spring. (Just in time, with the new Accord, Malibu, and Mazda6 here or coming soon.) Rumors are it will include a Genesis-inspired front end and a Veracruz-inspired dash. And I'm betting it will also include some powertrain tweaks, since the horsepower wars for family cars continue unabated. :sick:
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    ...since the horsepower wars for family cars continue unabated.

    That is something that just makes no sense to me. I know it's a fact but it still makes no sense.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I just went to my local dealer (which is literally down the hill from my house). The dealership was closed, but I found two unlocked examples; an LX-P and an EX cloth (4-cyl). I came back with results I didn't expect.

    For those who don't know by the way, I have a '96 LX Accord and an '06 EX cloth Accord.

    Size/Exterior: The car looks stately, grown up, but still looks aggressive (more aggressive than my 06). From inside the driver's seat, the car didn't feel noticeably longer, but I did notice the extra width big time (a good thing to a big guy like me). The LX-P's wheels sure look small when compared to the others' now.

    Interior: I spent most of my seat time in a silver LX-P. First, the plusses...

    Good headroom, kneeroom, and I think the rear seat would almost be bearable for three with the extra hip and shoulder room. Five across in my 2006 model is tight, and darn near impossible in my 1996. The gauges are gorgeous (and weren't even lit up, mind you). Nice detailing; a definite classy upgrade from my 06 (although my 06 is ultra-legible, so I'll call it a wash).

    For the cons...

    The wonderful dampened-tactile feel present in the previous Accords is almost gone. Push a power window switch and you meet a very stiff and cheaper feeling "click" as opposed to the more damped switches in my 06. The LX-P's fan-speed knob had LOTS of play (I could wiggle it up and down and change its gaps in a major way - HUGE disappointment to me). The seat fabric was nice, but overall, I am glad I only have 24,455 miles on my 2006 model. That way I can drive it a long time, then go back to the drawing board in picking a model of car once again.

    The Accord may offer more features for the dollar than they once did, but the interior quality seems to have suffered because of it.

    For giggles, I sat in a 2006 Malibu Maxx on the used lot; it did make me feel a LOT better about the 2008 Honda. I got in the car and I swear I heard birds going "cheeep cheeep cheeep."

    The short version? Well, I'm not a Honda fanboy/diehard owner, but I do really like my Accords. I am a little let down by this model. They improved some things in my eyes (exterior styling on both sedan and coupe, more power AND same/better economy) while shooting themselves in the foot on one of its previously best traits - interior feel (the fit and finish were good, but it felt a lot more like an Altima than a Honda, NOT a good thing to me.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    awesome comprehensive review... thanks!
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    The wonderful dampened-tactile feel present in the previous Accords is almost gone. Push a power window switch and you meet a very stiff and cheaper feeling "click" as opposed to the more damped switches in my 06.

    Interesting... that was one of my few criticisms/ nitpicks of the 2006 Sonata I rented a few months back; the buttons, especially the ones on the steering wheel, felt brittle and hollow. My Mazda has buttons that are pretty well dampened yet positive. I doubt my buying decision would ever be affected by the tactile feel of buttons, but it's just something that I noticed.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I doubt my buying decision would ever be affected by the tactile feel of buttons, but it's just something that I noticed.

    Nor would mine, but I didn't drive one, remember. All I have to go on right now is the quality of the interior and styling of everything. I'm hoping for Honda's sake that this was an anomaly.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I looked at two 08 Accords at the local dealer today. I could not get inside, to touch the buttons, but the materials looked to be the same as my 03 interior. The seats look like the same type of leather and the dash material looked the same, as far as look and texture. Don't know why they would change the way the buttons operate, but I guess it could happen. Neither car had the body side molding on them, which is good since those moldings kill the profile look of the car, and probably do little to prevent door dings. I like the looks and the extra interior space, but not nearly enough to trade my 03 for one. Maybe generation 9 or 10 will be enough to change my mind, but I doubt it.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    By coincidence I drove past my local Honda dealer today also, and I saw lots of 2008 Accords lined up outside so I took a look. These were all locked, but they had at least one of everything: LX, LX-P, EX, EX V6, and EX V6 with nav. I was rather surprised at how many they had in stock. The rush to be the first on the block with a 2008 Accord hasn't materialized I guess.

    Exterior-wise, I was impressed most by the side view. It looks very BMW-ish to me, and even the LX has fat chrome window trim. The rear was OK, nothing stood out (except for a couple of cars with misaligned trunk lids). The front will take some getting used to. It seems such a departure from Accords of the past, with its huge upright grille and bulbous headlamps. I saw a Caliber in the parking lot and there was a resemblence. I agree with a previous post that the front looks better with the fog lamps on the EX V6. Another thing I saw that I'm not used to seeing on Hondas is considerable orange peel on the paint, noticeable on the darker colors (they had white, grey, black, and red on the lot--the red was pretty sharp with a deep metallic finish). The 16" and 17" alloys looked good, but the wheel covers on the LX screamed "pay the extra $1000 and get the LX-P!" Another sign of decontenting is the lack of side mouldings. Many cars are taking those off lately, but I haven't noticed people are more careful these days swinging their doors open in parking lots. :(

    On the interior, overall I was disappointed. The EX interiors looked pretty good with the wood trim, but it looked better in photos to me. It's not an ugly interior by any stretch, but just didn't "wow" me. I was surprised that even on the $25k EX there's a plastic steering wheel. It also appears Honda has gone to the plastic door handles used by most other cars in this class now. They have a aluminum look to match the trim, but it's clear they are painted plastic (or a poor quality aluminum!). On the LX and LX-P, there's a lot of black plastic but the fabric looked nice, especially the tan. The sticker didn't mention if the LX has a seat height adjuster, and I didn't see a lever on the seat edge. Does it have one (manual)?

    The dash looked "cheaper" to me than the one on the 2003-2007 Accord. The gauges looked clear but nothing special. Maybe they look better at night. The center stack seemed logically laid out, although with a lot of small buttons. Even if the 3-knob HVAC controls are ominpresent, I prefer them (if well damped) for their utter simplicity. I know I will get a lot of flak for saying this, but I actually prefer the dash on the Elantra to the Accord's dash.

    I am hoping this dealer will have an "Accord open house" like they did for the new Fit so I can drive a few of the new Accords and see if the driving experience wows me more than the visual tour. For now, from looks alone, I think the new Accord is just a small step forward for Honda, mostly due to the extra interior room and the addition of features like ESC, active headrests, and audio controls on the steering wheel across the board. If the ride is smoother without hurting handling, as some have reported, that would be a big step forward IMO.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    Just out of curiosity, do you think that Honda will be criticized by the various car mags for the location of the hvac vents in the center stack like Hyundai was when the current-gen Sonata came out? :confuse:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Are you kidding? ;)

    I really can't fathom why Hyundai got so much flak over the vent position on the Sonata. I've driven that car a lot and the placement is just fine for me. It's easy to direct the flow into the cabin so it doesn't blow on the driver's right hand. That isn't easy to do with some cars. And I know of several other vehicles that have vents in almost exactly the same position, and I didn't see any snipes in reviews about it.

    I was interested to see though that in C/D's long-term wrapup of the Sonata, they were very positive about the interior and didn't say anything about vent placement.
  • pinehurst2pinehurst2 Member Posts: 13
    do you think that Honda will be criticized by the various car mags for the location of the hvac vents in the center stack

    My previous Accord and Acura both were pathetic in their ability to direct the center vent's air flow toward my face, so any kind of change in this area will be a huge plus. Altima doesn't seem to have a problem directing air toward your face.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    The Aura's increase in sales were due to deep discounting and big time rebates, not the comparison.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I like the air vent pointed directly at the rear ceiling area (straight out), to circulate the air in the whole car. My wife likes them pointed right at her. We can accomplish both with the 03 Accord vents. The vent position would definitely be a point of interest for me, when test driving an 08 Accord. Since I don't want NAV, I would rather have the vents in the middle, and at the top.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Rumors are it will include a Genesis-inspired front end

    Does that mean Sonata's front end will no longer look like 1998 Accord? :D
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    The Aura's increase in sales were due to deep discounting and big time rebates, not the comparison.

    Did you interview everyone who bought an Aura? Of course not, so how do you know?! Perhaps it was a combination of things... a competent car, nicely styled design, big rebates, and a good comparison to its competitors as represented by the camry and accord in their showrooms? I'm sorry, but your continuous spouting of things you don't know and/or couldn't know is just annoying. IMO, of course.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    I have to say that the vents in the Mazda6 are pretty unique in that they are circular and will rotate 360 degrees with deflectors that move like shutters which allows for great control of where air is directed. Generally, I don't really care for these things, but now that I have it, it is very nice. And having 3 vents in the center stack is great for the backseat occupants since some of these vents can be directed toward them easily while the front seat occupants can still get direct air from the side vents. Of course having vents in the center storage are like some cars would be better... are there cars in this class that have these?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Never thought of it as the Honda Accord style of '98, but you are right. Does look a bit '98, which is a good thing - right? In looking back in time, some designs were just a bit better looking. It is almost like they are now trying too hard to make something striking, and coming up with the plain ol' weird. What's up with this strange bug eyes on the new Accord? They stick out so much, I wonder if they are a target in a wreck. :surprise: Gosh, the Sonata may look plain to some, but I am thinking more like it is plainly a better look than many. The front nose of a Camry, is well just wrong, and the side view is not too exciting, as it is looking a bit chunky. But overall, it is something better than the previous Camry, but then again, anything would be. I am thinking Honda and Toyota may be giving the competition a little break these days. The GM Malibu is going to look even better, the Sonata pics, I have yet to see, the Altima is still stylin' but perhaps some, like I am, are getting tired of the look to a degree (still good). Should make the Fusion / Milan look better too. Ford just needs the make a little change or two here or there in the interior to jazz it up, and I guess they get a new V6, so heck may be a contender. Heck, I always liked most of the stuff Honda was doing each year, but the new exterior and interior look sure doesn't do it for me. But then again, I already bought a sedan. So they made a sale. I was shopping several cars at the time, then got it down to Aura and Accord. But this 2008 Accord, would probably not have been in the race. It is all subject, this how good a car looks, but to me a lot of the new redesigns just look garbled, awkward, and less flowing or continuing as a form. The 2007 Accord to some is not a work of art. I realize this, but it seemed to have a smoothness to it, and it worked for me as a car which looked well, front - side & back as I walked around it. And it seemed to look like its own design and not an accumulation of other designs. The nose is simple, but kinda sporty for a sedan.

    Same thing with the New CTS, it seems to be taking on a corporate nose, which is not fitting to the Art & Science simple chisels, and the side view now looks off too. Something of some mismatches. The trunk and rear doesn't seem to be as CTS or stand-outish. I had a long day of getting my Aunt up and running with a new computer and new ISP service, so the brain is not firing as fast, so perhaps I am not getting this through as in expressing correctly. Maybe it is just me, asI look at the making of a design change as having to actually improve on the previous, or be so much a better replacement, it was worth the effort. The New Accord is kinda like three car designs, we all have seen, grafted together. The interior got more busy, and is now less attractive. The CTS exterior, IMHO, is now way too busy up front, but the interior is nice - very nice. Alas, it too lost a bit of Art & Science along the way, so maybe they could inject a bit of quirky, just for old times sake. :P Loren

    P.S. I am not saying the CTS is not attractive in a way. Just saying it is not in a CTS way attractive, as in original theme, and to me personally, no longer has the impact it once did. Many will love the new look and it should sell well.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    If you do the math. In retail sales, it was something like 800 or so more cars sold. Nothing earthshaking. Deeper discounts is a likely scenario. Yes, Aura XR is pretty nice little package. Should be very interesting to see how the New Malibu sales are, once it hits the showrooms, and how the G6 and Aura's will fare.
    goodnight from the left coast, Loren
  • ykangykang Member Posts: 88
    Does that mean Sonata's front end will no longer look like 1998 Accord?

    2008 Accord looks like current Sonata. :P
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I don't think so. The only similarity seems to be sharper inside corners of the headlamps, and that is a contemporary design element seen in a boat load of cars. Is it really that different from, say, what you see in TL, TSX, Civic, or several Japanese Hondas? In fact, it isn't too different from 1990-1993 Accord's headlamp with a contemporary touch. But here is the other Honda (Japanese) from which Accord gets its headlamps:
    image

    They are virtually identical. As for the grill, I don't see any similarity there. As I said earlier, 2005+ Sonata's grill is more like a touched up grill from 1998 Accord. I even see similar "bulge" around the outline of the grill. Take a closer look at 1998 Accord, side by side, and you might see that. If 2008 Accord makes you think Sonata, perhaps it is because there is a 1998 Accord-look in it. "What Goes Around, Comes Around". :)

    Take a look at the Hyundai I30 revealed at Frankfurt just a few days ago. When I saw that grill, I thought "Civic". Perhaps, in a few years from now, if Honda maintains/evolves the Civic that even remotely mimics 2006 version, people will be saying... that looks like a Hyundai!

    Of course, 1998 Jaguar S-Type looks like a 2000 Hyundai Sonata too. :D
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    What's up with this strange bug eyes on the new Accord?

    I agree. It is a carry over from similar effect on CR-V and Odyssey. Some other cars (Lexus GS) have it too. And I think it is limited to sedan only. Accord Coupe has it conventionally styled (Honda Stream, pictured above, doesn't either).
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I love those round vents in the mazda6. Disappointing to seem them dropped from the center dash in the new version. I like that I can instantly see where they are aimed and if they are open or not, with just a quick glance. I also think they are a little quicker and easier to change the aim on or shut off than the conventional type.

    The Mazda6 has rear seat heat ducts...but, I am not even sure where they are.

    My wife's Jetta, not quite in this class, has rear vents in the center storage area. Based on that, I assume that the Passat would also have that feature.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Although I didn't read all the replys between this post by you and the most current posts I will "stick up" for urnews in as much you post several pictures and tell us it from "so-and-so" year and model. We are supposed to see certain faults with fit and finish (I guess) and while I do see some gaps I cannot tell without seeing the whole dash, or whatever total piece this snippet is supposed to represent, if the parts fit well or not. I cannot tell the overall design and therefore cannot tell if certain gaps are faults...or not. Further I cannot feel the plastics, if that is what your beef is. As far as I know you could have visited 10 dealers and looked at 100 cars to find a flaw to prove your point. You cannot post a snapshot of something that could be a 57 Ford and use it as "proof" a Camry or Accord is wonderful. I don't even care for the current crop of Chrysler cars but I see flaws with your reasoning in using this as some sort of proof.
    Having read all the posts in between it seems this photo as proof thing has faded into the past. Therefore my post is old news. Sorry I really should not post first and read later....
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The Aura's increase in sales were due to deep discounting and big time rebates, not the comparison.

    Let me know when you get some ACTUAL evidence of this.

    My sister, who is a CPA, went to a local Saturn dealer, just to see what the comparison was about. She was amazed that for slightly more than $21K, she could get a well-equipped Aura XE with a V6, compared to a 4-cylinder in the Camry and Accord. She was just as impressed with the fit-and-finish, interior materials, and the drive/ride of the Aura as with the Accord. Two days before, she was able to talk down a '07 Accord V6 to $24K (including the $1K rebate from Honda), similarly equipped, and was ready to sign the papers until she bought the Saturn.

    Oh, and for the record, Saturn did NOT offer any "deep discounting" or any "big time rebates". And IMO, after driving her new Aura a few times, they don't need to.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    If in-store comparison helped Aura, why would GM not continue it. They had also announced to do it with the new Malibu but suddenly retracted (and interestingly enough, this coincided with the launch of the new Accord). Given the timing of events, I conclude that GM didn't think it was a good idea to pit the new Accord against Aura and new Malibu. The comparison worked well using a model that was four-five years old.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I cannot tell the overall design and therefore cannot tell if certain gaps are faults...or not. Further I cannot feel the plastics, if that is what your beef is.

    I posted the pictures (not louiswei). That said, if you can't tell the difference, or get a feel for it from it, then let us agree upon one thing... our standards for quality is different. I won't settle for something like that in anything above $15K, and won't be happy with it even in a car that costs less.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The comparison worked well using a model that was four-five years old.

    ...And a new-for-'07 Camry. A MT COTY Camry I might add.

    I'm not sure why GM discontinued it for the Malibu. I'm simply saying that although it may not have created a huge jump in Aura sales (at least in the eyes of GM), it DID help some consumers to make a smarter decision (in their own eyes) in terms of purchasing a car. Incidentally, the salesperson at the Saturn dealer said that a fair amount of people did test-drive all three models, and at least 90% of them picked the Aura over the Camry and Accord. Not only owners of current Saturns, but also Honda, Toyota, and Nissan owners as well.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well she may be a CPA, but she is not too sharp with the car buying. I bought the Accord SE V6 for 22,500, which is a SOHC vs. OHV engine with more HP, and a five speed, instead of a four speed tranny. I have stability control and a 6CD changer. The ride may be softer in the XE, but it seems pretty close to me. That slightly more than $21K is gonna cost much more than the less than $22,500 I paid when you go to sell, and I have the one grade above the other car. She needed to talk to me first, the CIB, a Certified Individual Buy ;) The interior is better on the '07 Accord than the Aura, BTW, and a bit more room inside as well. The Aura is a tad bit narrow, and the knee hits the dashboard. Overall, it is not a bad car, just not the best example of an Aura. The Aura XR, if bought around $22K is not a bad deal, though the total in and out will not be as good as the Accord or Camry.
    Loren CIB
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Last Friday while our Civic was in the shop I drove a 2008 Accord LX-P. I never drove an Accord before so everything was new to me and this post is based on my prior lack of knowledge about them.
    I liked the side profile which has a BMW like "character" line along the flanks. Same for the side window shape. I can't recall anything about the rear so it must have been unremarkable..neither great nor horrible. The front was a different story and overall I did not like it. For some reason it reminded me of the Pilot truck all chunky with a large opening down low and having a big rectangular grid within. The front didn't do it for me. The interior was comfortable and it rode smoothly and quietly but it WAS a new car so I expected it would. I didn't care too much for the large display center in the center of the dash...why? I can't say really but it just struck me as being too large for the information displayed within. Some areas of the interior reminds me of our 2006 Civic. The steering wheel has much the same design and feel with the same buttons for the same features, the glove box door has what looks to me to be the same latch handle as the one on the Civic.
    I was interested in the performance aspect and the base 177hp I-4 engine did perform well and one can expect the 190hp 4cyl to be pretty good as well. But until I see published documented numbers I'll remain neutral on that since only 2lb/ft.of torque separate the two. I did not drive the V-6 and aside from the 3-4-6 cylinder deactivation feature, which may be a gimmick depending on your point of view, I expect it be quick as well. I am trying to wean myself off V-6's which is why I am starting to pay more attention to the I-4 cylinders offered by everyone and for now Honda has, I believe, the most powerful. New EPA sticker numbers are now down to what may be "real world" if one is honest in reporting what that really is. The salesperson was quick to point this out saying most (many) people will still exceed those EPA numbers...maybe.
    In all it was merely OK and I intend to try the 190hp version as soon as one becomes available. For now I think I will wait until the freshened Sonata shows up which in view of the sticker prices on the several Accords I looked at may be a bigger bargain (define that as you see fit but don't tell me I am wrong) than ever...either that or a diesel version of "something" shows up.
    Finally, we bought a 2006 Civic, one that was a completely new design and have endured quite a few "un-Honda like" problems so buying a first year redesign again doesn't do it for me. I think our Civic has colored my perception of Honda "quality" anyhow.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    So why did GM say it did not help sales, then discontinue using the program? It was also interesting how they ended up with two i4 engine Japan makes, when both are available for around $24K retail, before discounting with some extras on them. Perhaps one wishing to get an idea on the features and goodness of brand X car, with little knowledge of what to look for, was fair game. From what I saw at my local dealership, I would have had to have them get a car elsewhere for it to be a deal. Their cars were all loaded with extras, then they had a side sticker for window etching for security and pin stripes added on. Some fools may fall for those two items. When they offered to get an Aura XR in base, without any additional equipment they offered a discount, then took it away on a lower price for a trade-in. Ford offered more, and Honda offered more. L
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    As I have stated I do not even care for recent Chrysler cars and therefore I am not defending them but for all I know you looked at 100's of cars to find (and photograph) the worst possible panel mis-match in an attempt to use it as some sort of evidence. Conversely maybe this is the first you looked at and just happened to have your camera along. If you think everyone here can look at a snippet of an overall component and be able to tell how that little piece relates to the whole you are wrong. That pretty much is what urnews questioned...what is this and what am I supposed to see? Don't paint us all as cretins who don't see anything relating to good verses poor quality even when a nice photo has been provided.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Someone would have to be pretty high up in the GM food chain to know the real reason why the Accord/Camry side-by-side comparisons with Aura and Malibu were canceled.

    The most logical reason, of course, is that the comparo didn't produce the desired results: significantly improved sales. I thought it was a pretty bold move and one that demonstrated a whole lot of confidence on GM's part. It is strange, however, that the plan was canned after such a short time.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I'd suspect any promotion like that has a limited life of effectiveness. It was time for a change.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    maybe the real reason is that somebody somewhere figured out that the American car buyer is getting too smart for these 'sponsored' comparos. Are you listening Ford?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Yeah, but if I were interested in one or more of the compared vehicles, I wouldn't give a hoot. I'd just use it as an opportunity to drive each vehicle in one spot. Nevermind the disparity in equipment on the displayed models - I can look up the options packages myself. I know they're going to "dumb down" the competition, but why not give it a whirl?

    Of course the new Edge comparo makes me skeptical. So far I've seen just one commercial, over and over, with the same lady who preferred the Ford.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Better to look like a 1998 Accord, with a clean, classic front end, than look like a Dodge or Suzuki, which the new Accord looks like to me in front.

    Also, the headlamps on the photo of the Japanese Accord are much smaller than those on the U.S. Accord. Those lamps are HUGE, and stick way out from the sides. "The better to see me with, my dear", I guess. :)
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