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Comments
We're not here to snipe at each other and that just has to stop. Who copied whom first does not matter. What you think someone elses biases are does not matter. It's the specifics of the vehicles themselves contrasted with each other that we should be focusing on. This continuing oneupmanship is unnecessary and certainly not conducive to a productive conversation.
We have GOT to stick to the cars and drop all this personal stuff. :mad:
Wrong again!
I checked out the site, and noticed only financing offers for the '08 Aura. And 5.9% is for 3 years is pretty pathetic IMO, since one can easily do better at a credit union. No cash-back incentives posted anywhere. As for the '07, well duh! Everyone is offering incentives to unload the '07 models this time of year, including Honda. When she purchased the car in JULY, locally, there were no such incentives or cash-back deals, and the financing rates weren't very stellar either.
Face it, there are other excellent cars in the midsize class besides the Accord.
BTW, I'm taking a break from this discussion, since all I seem to read lately are comments made from certain members holding their car on a pedestal while belittling others for their decisions to buy something else, all the while throwing out assumptions and "facts" that just don't hold true anymore.
Pat asked posters to do that in some discussion in the past and it was interesting. It helps potential shoppers like myself know what's good about that car.
I have a potential new or used car in the future in months to give a new driver in the family access to a car. Both cars currently are full-sized. A mid-sized car is my most likely purchase, new or used.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's also okay to list a few things about your car that you'd like to change.
I have a 2006.5 KIA Optima.The trip computer has no MPG so I would REALLY like to have that.
Here it goes... that's tough because I really like my car a lot!
2006 Honda Accord EX 4-cyl (cloth)
I have a power-height controlled seat; why not spend the extra $2 Honda and make it FULL power? Well, they did for 2008 at least.
Exterior styling was a weak point in this car; the rear end is nice with the LEDs but the front is kind of non-descript.
Stability Control across the lineup would've been nice too, like Hyundai did.
Honda has fixed my gripes for the past model, while introducing some new ones (I sat in an LX-P and an EX 4-cyl Accord Sunday - interior quality is no longer head of the class IMO - major disappointment as this was a HUGE plus of getting the Accord over competitors). Now I won't have a clue where to start next time around!
Kia Optima
5 likes:
* Good blend of ride quality and handling
* Roomy, high-quality interior but reasonable exterior size
* Good fuel economy (I4, 5MT or 5AT) for the class
* Warranty
* Price/value
Needs improvement:
* Better availability of ABS/ESC package (e.g., can't get it on the base trim without an "appearance" package, and even then it's very rare--only 3 LX models with the package in my entire region when I checked a few weeks ago).
* More power for the V6 (this is not an issue for me as I prefer the I4, but the V6 is outclassed by just about every other car in this segment).
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070126/FREE/70118010/1528/F- - REE
I found that article to be very enlightening. Unfortunately, we are no longer in the market for a new car, having purchased a 2007 3.0-liter V6 SEL AWD Ford Fusion 9 1/2 months ago on Dec. 4, 2006. Still, it's good to be informed about what's available and how the different models compare to one another.
People who are in the market for a new car certainly have a lot of good mid-size sedans to choose from these days. I don't believe Accord and Camry dominate the segment the way they used to. Our Fusion is a very good example of an alternative, especially the SEL variation.
I test drove Maxima, Altima (wasn’t a part of the plan), Accord, Intrigue and Passat. Grand Prix was a part of the plan, but the combination of sticker and interior quality was a huge turn off. I got in, and got out. 1998 Passat was on top with Accord closely behind. Wanted to take a chance with the VW, but sanity prevailed and went with my first Honda. Ten years later, here are the strengths
Reliability:
181K miles, and ten years don’t show anywhere but on the steering wheel (leather wrapped, so the spots where I hold the wheel have some wear, as do buttons on the steering wheel). Everything else is virtually impeccable. Everything works just like it did ten years ago, with the same directness and crispness. There is been just ONE out of normal wear and tear repair (a cracked radiator hose) at about 150K miles. Besides that, it has been all about replacing 2-3 headlamp bulbs (my lights are always on), one tail lamp bulb, a few sets of tires, several batteries, and other normal pieces.
It is still a car that I don’t mind taking on road trips.
Value:
IIRC, the car (EX-L/auto) was listed at $23,145. I paid $21.2K plus TTL. The car was rated 23/30 mpg. I average 26 mpg regularly in half and half mixed driving (27+ mpg on last two tanks). Even now, the car gets 32 mpg at 75 mph. I’ve been disappointed by a lot of cars that are rated better now, but they have failed to beat this Accord under my lead foot.
At 100K mile mark, I considered replacing it with something new but decided against it since it still felt new. At 150K mile mark, the thought came back, and a few thousands miles later, I found it a stable-mate, a 2006 TL. The two cars share the garage, and duties (about a thousand miles each per month). If 7.5 years without having to make a payment, only scheduled maintenance and a minor repair is all that it took, I can’t see anything but a huge value in this car. Superb daily gas mileage is a plus.
This is also a car that has been pushed to its payload limits on occasions. Most of the landscaping needs were handled in it, without having to rent a pickup.
And I was recently offered $3.5K for it. But this car is a part time limo for my dog.
Drive train:
This car feels stronger than the old 150 HP suggest (under new standard, it would probably be rated in low 140s). Ten years ago, I didn’t think 200 HP V6 was needed. And I was right. This car is impressive on two-lane highway overtaking situations at high speed too. Even with V6, a lot of midsized cars (the old Taurus and Sonata come to mind) required backing off to have enough room to get up to speed (>70 mph), move over to the left lane and complete the pass. With the Accord, the car seems to pull relentlessly beyond 80 mph. CR got that right. When I saw their numbers (40-80 mph acceleration), the 150 HP Accord took the same time as 192 HP Camry V6 (in mid-low 5 second range).
Handling and Performance:
It is no sports sedan, but it rides like on rails at 80 mph. Cross winds don’t play their trick on the chassis at high speeds. Curves are always welcome. The steering gets better with speed, still sharp and responsive. Going over bumps, the chassis still settles with the same aplomb, one bounce and that’s it. It is an easy car to drive fast. It feels sure footed, and smaller than it is.
The car will rotate under throttle while turning (the fantastic 5-link double wishbone rear suspension at work). It tracks very-very well. In one of the customer reviews that I just read, the 2008 Accord seems to have this quality intact, and better than 2003-2007 model.
And brake pads have lasted! The original pads took 90K miles of abuse in the front, and 132K miles in the rear. Since then, the replacement front pads have gone another 91K miles, and rear pads have 49K miles on them.
Styling:
It has great interior ergonomics with, one of the most intelligently designed dash controls. It seems every button was given a thought regarding its function and placement. They are laid out in perfect symmetry, and finished off with a minor and easily overlooked detail like a notch on the button that sits in the middle of everything (the notch is similar to the notch on “F” and “J” keys on a PC keyboard, useful to determine position of the finger without having to look).Buttons are mostly dedicated. Some people are overwhelmed by more buttons but doing so helps the driver as they require no more than a quick glance. The 2008 Accord takes a similar approach.
While many (at the time, and right here at Edmunds) associated tail lamp design with Buicks (someone just did that with Accord a few posts above, backy, is that you?), I saw a revival of Prelude’s tail lamp from late 1980s. Prelude’s was continuous (with red and white to begin with, then amber was added) wrapping the entire tail section. In Accord, the license plate broke the continuity. I would have liked to see that design element in 2008. But then, people would have screamed “Honda copied Infiniti, BMW, Avalon ”.
While I loved the rear, the side also brought a new styling theme in a subtle but crisp line running across the side from front fender, over the door handles to the tail lamp. This has lately become a more common feature in several cars. 2003 Accord got the same but at an angle.
Also loved the design of the headlamp at the time with full width amber parking lamp casing below the low/high beam lamp. Shortly after, Audi TT got similar treatment. Now, that seems to be a defining character in new Audi beginning with R8 (all models are supposed to get LEDs in varying shape). Backy, I won’t be surprised that this is next in line at Hyundai. I think they will go back and claim “they copied from Audi”, copying from a car it actually competes with wouldn’t sound right, would it?
Having addressed what I liked, and still like about the Accord, and most of the qualities have been passed down (now two) generations, I can still see myself getting the new Accord. There aren’t many cons to it, but I will list anyway.
The exterior shape wasn’t ground breaking, and while pleasing for most part, I always thought it lacked a proper grill. But that has long been missing from Accords in American market (not a case with Accords in other markets).
Some interior trims were flimsy. I didn’t like the plastic pieces that were to cover the bolts at the back edge of the front seats. Honda could have used better finish to the sides of the center stack (either side of the shifter).
Road noise was an issue with original tires (Michelin Energy MXV4). I'm glad they were overly expensive when it was time to replace, I considered other brands, and they showed how much difference tires can make.
Shopping for a new car be fun, Grad, especially in today's mid-size segment. It's a very competitive marketplace even though Toyota and Honda will continue to be the No. 1 and No. 2 best sellers.
As for pricing on Honda Accords, they indeed were discounting very-very early on. I made a deal back in later February. Discounting of the car is not just a recent event. The final year of the design was the reason, along with a sluggish economy. Too many people struggling with house loans, is what they say these days.
Yes, there are excellent, very good, and good cars in the same class of mid-sized cars other than Accord. You betcha, there are all so many, and after you test drive and do the research, you can usually get it down to a couple or three which meet your requirements. The current look of Accord, IMHO would scratch it off the list. Even that too busy looking interior, whew. As for Honda or XXX car dealerships not having incentives or offering deals, you do have to drive some times to find a good deal - dealer. Loren
c'mon andres3... did you even read what I wrote? I actually gave reasons why the Saturn plan may not work!! At least try to quote me accurately! (this is my second post on this matter, but my first post got deleted by the host b/c I got mad that andres3 was misrepresenting things... so hopefully they will find this post better)
As to the Aura, I saw one on my way to work and it's a nice looking car! Muscular yet sleek. It's good to see another solid looking option.
I don't know if the Mazda6 windows, which go essentially all the way down, are any shorter than Fusion's or Accord's. Does not seem to be much difference in the size of the fixed triangular bit, which I would think would look bigger if the window were shortened in order to have it go all the way down.
In the case of the Sonata, the fixed piece of glass does look a little bigger. I think I'd rather have that then to have windows that only go down 2/3 or 3/4 of the way, though.
Does the Accord, like the Fusion, leave 4 inches of glass exposed when rolled down. This was something I gave no thought to, not that it would be much of a factor anyway, but I do like that my rear windows go down like they do.
I don't have a crystal ball like you appear to do predicting that I won't be able to find another so perfect car. What does it say about my 2006 TL? It has got 29K miles on it.
And Honda is indeed a company I would love to work for. But, among things you listed as normal pieces, only water pump (replaced with timing belt at 95K miles) fit. Everything else is as it was delivered ten years ago. If you find it unbelievable, it is because it is!
I'm glad your experience has been so positive, its good to know there is one to offset mine.
Seems like both you and me are pretty anal about interiors so I'll share something with you...
Go grab the door handles on your TL and try to twist it with a little force applied. You'll find that the door handle was actually made by soft plastic and can be twisted around. It's no big deal but I just don't think it should happen on a $32K+ car.
That and the fake wood are probably my only nit picking about the TL. It is a great car with a very reasonable price, could be a whole lot better with the SH-AWD though.
Here is an Edmunds take on that engine, from the 2003-2004 Midsize Comparison test.
The Hyundai offers a mostly tepid driving experience. Its 2.7-liter V6 is rated for 170 horsepower and 181 pound-feet of torque, and it was about as fast as the Passat in instrumented acceleration testing. Out on public roads, though, the Sonata felt slower, as its engine had little to work with until it had revved to about 3,500 rpm. After that point, the lethargy ceased and the Hyundai offered ample highway passing power. The engine was quiet at cruise, and drivers preferred it to the slightly faster Sebring's due to its greater refinement.
Our test vehicle came with a four-speed automatic transmission (your only choice for 2004) with an automanual mode. The transmission shifted smoothly but was slow on the draw with downshifts. This hesitation was particularly noticeable when a quick burst of speed was needed to catch an opening in traffic.
In 0-60, it ran 9.1 seconds.
The Accord 4-cyl in 2003 (10 more hp, 9 more lb-ft, but 200lbs heavier too - so probably a wash) was discussed in a long-term test from Edmunds.com also. Here's what an editor had to say...
Editor in Chief Karl Brauer logged more positive comments: "The car is fast. Not fast for a four-cylinder but simply fast. I never felt like it was lacking in power, and considering the way I typically drive on my commute down Pacific Coast Highway, that's pretty amazing."
After passing the break-in period, we subjected the Accord to our standard battery of instrumented testing, where it managed an 8.8-second 0-to-60-mph run.
So, I don't think it's that far-fetched to say his 4-cyl Accord could run with the old V6 Sonata. Considering the fact that with VTEC more power could be had more flexibly than the 2.7 V6 from that era.
The 2004 Sonata V6 was 170hp/3200lbs, the 1998 Accord 4-cyl was 150hp/2900 lbs (According to ConsumerGuide).
Today though, is a different story.
Speaking of $32K cars, I just saw an ad for a Mercedes for that amount of money. Wonder how that stacks up against the new CTS, and the little Bimmer, the 3? Will the day come when the problems with reliability no longer be an issue with Mercedes. For a long time now, the SLK, their little roadster, was their most reliable effort. I can see how some may be leery though of a German luxury company offering a car in the $32K range given the dollar - Euro rates, and well let's say current pricing of more common cars, like a Toyota reaching that level. I sounds great to get a Mercedes at this prices. But if it sounds too good to be true then??? As the cost to buy loaded mid-size family cars goes up, do we now have a meeting with the low end of luxury cars? Anyone road tested the new baby Mercedes, the CTS, and BMW3 lately? Hasn't the 3 grown up these days; size wise that is? Are the Japan choices better, in the lowest $30K's ? And the Swedes? Who out there is willing to give Mercedes a go? Or let's go out there a little farther, what about the Azera and other luxury Korean cars. Which would you buy - which are off the list? Loren
Plastic wood (plood) is one of my pet peeves. I dislike it in all cars. I don't even care for real wood as a matter of fact. Our 2007 Ford Fusion has something called piano black trim. Yeah, it's plastic but to my mind's eye it looks a lot more upscale than plood.
The Sonata is very powerful in V6 clothing. I believe articles that report they have had it as low as 6.9. My first V6 Sonata that I drove in 2006 had a pause in the accelerator that was annoying to me. The one I drove the other day was responsive and very quick. The band of acceleration was nearly as good as the 3.5 VQ engines I drove for many years.
Anyone who says the Sonata V6 is 'deficient' hasn't driven a Sonata V6 3.3 or an Azera 3.8. Very, very good engines.
To date I have spent time behind the wheel of the following rentals: Ford Taurus(classic model), Mitsu Galant and Lancer, Pontiac Grand Prix (3.8), Hyundai Azera, Kia Rondo, Kia Optima, Dodge Caliber, Chrysler Sebring, Ford Escape, Nissan Altima, Chevy Malibu. I have not rented a new Camry or Accord but have driven them privately
drive on - Loren
I drive my 1996 with 130 hp and a 4-speed Auto pretty regularly. When I go for a few days and get back in my 06 with 166 hp and iVtec, I forget how fast it is! I dig deep on the throttle on an on-ramp and **whooosh** off I go! The 130 hp (probably 125 on the new standard) hasn't been a deadly hazard since I know how to plan for things, but the extra 40 hp in my 2006 model is a welcome addition in point-and-squirt merging situations.
And the rear windows only stick up about 2 inches at the front of the door when down, not 4 inches. It disappears into the door about halfway back. So the rear half of the window is totally down.
Here is a neat trick with the Accord. You can hit the open twice on the key, and hold it the second time and all the windows go down. Good to cool the car, or toss a hat inside, or whatever. To roll up from outside, you do have to insert key in door and turn twice and hold, but that too is better than going inside to roll all the windows. Now this is progress.... well unless it stops working some day
The Fusion did not get the infusion of the 3.5 V6 due to manufacturing limitations for supply, I take it. Or will they just put a tweaked 3.0 in soon? And yes, the current one gets the job done, but you know all the games they play for comparison testing. If I recall correctly, the 0-60 is plenty good. Any i4 changes to come soon? One of the greatest concerns I had about the car, was more about the state of Ford the company. I hope they survive into the next decade and beyond. The initial quality of the car seems to top the rest.L
Yeah the 99.5 Jetta did that, so Honda was about 4 years behind on a feature. Its very similar to now, where almost every car made has an iPod interface and ability to control it through the factory radio, while the '07 does not, and I believe the '08s just have an Aux in, hardly what I would consider integration.
L
Consumer Guide probably listed the curb weight for DX model. IIRC, my EX-L was listed at about 3150 lb. The EXV6 was close to 3300 lb.
- cracked radiator hose (at ~150K miles)
The "not failed" replacements...
- Tires (a few sets)
- Battery (I think three times)
- Headlamp bulbs (IIRC, three)
- Tail lamp bulb (one)
- Wiper blades (several)
- Timing belt/Water pump (at 95K miles)
- Front brake pads (at 90K miles)
- Rear brake pads (at 132K miles)
- Fluids (Transmission, oil changes...)
Current odometer reading: 181K miles
Thats all I can recall at this time. Happy?
Does the Accord, like the Fusion, leave 4 inches of glass exposed when rolled down.
The windows are not rolled down very often, and I've never measured it, but it's a couple of inches. My car has side, and curtain airbags, and the doors are pretty far from the passenger, so it would be difficult to rest your arm on the door in any case. You wouldn't want to have an arm there if and when the airbags deploy. Part of the reason I got the top-of-the-line Accord in 03, was for all the safety items that were only included on that car. How far the rear window went down, meant nothing to me.
How does "wood trim" cover up deficiencies and "carbon fiber trim" not do the same thing? Or am I misinterpreting your intent to state the "wood trim" and "carbon fiber trim" are used to cover up deficiencies.
I was neither happy nor unhappy - it was a simple question because you didn't list all the "other failed items" and I was curious what was in the list. Don't be so defensive.
How about if I post my own car story which is true (or call me a liar if you choose). I own a 1995 Dodge Stratus that has been in the family since 1998. My daughter bought it from the original owner with 92K miles showing, drove it until Sept. 2003 when she traded it for a new 2003 Elantra. After some thought (and since I needed another "work" car) I purchased it from the Hyundai dealer where she traded. It had 132,XXX miles showing at that time. It now has 192,054 miles. I have added new tires and those have about 40+K miles with ~ 1/2 tread left, new front brake pads (they don't last as long as a Honda ) a new timing belt (the second) at 186K miles and replaced the water pump (original) and idler pulleys (also original) at the same time. The AC compressor and components are original, the power steering pump and alternator are also original. I replaced inner and outer tie rod ends and struts and shocks not too long ago and..you guessed it they were original too. Yeah, bulbs have been replaced over its lifetime as well. The engine has not been touched except for plugs and wires (it is a Mitsubishi 2.5 liter V-6). It uses little oil (about 1 qt. over 4500-5000miles). The interior, especially the seat fabric, looks new except for one cigarette "melt" on the driver seat. In fact it looks much better than that on our 2006 Civic which has a worn patch on the driver seat AND for which my dealer has a replacement waiting only for me to make an appointment to be installed. The Civic has a little over 10K miles.
It is tight with no rattles and handles great. I run it to to redline through the gears every now and again and it will still cruise at 75 mph for hours and my last tank was 27+ mpg. It passed the fairly rigid Pa. state inspection (including the emissions part) last week with no problems.
So, in spite of how poorly many here think of Chrysler products I think it compares favorably to your Honda.
Will I buy another Dodge because of this experience? Nope, Hyundai for me.
Eh, they have the same engine, whats the difference?
No official figures on that yet but I've seen 180-200 HP stated for that I4. That's a pretty big range so I'm wondering if the Ford version will have the ~180 and the Mazda version will be closer to 200 after they sprinkle the Zoom Zoom dust on it.
Will I buy another Dodge because of this experience? Nope, Hyundai for me.
Why a Hyundai, Robert? I am curious.
One of the reasons why we bought a 2007 3.0-liter V6 SEL AWD Ford Fusion was because of generally good experiences with a 1997 3.8-liter V6 Ford Thunderbird (83,000 miles) and a 2000 2.0-liter I4 Ford Focus station wagon (92,000 miles).