Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Haven't we had enough of this benchmark and dominance crap?
Maybe it has something to do with p.... envy syndrome!
For the little ears in this forum, he means "parking" envy; right m6?
Oh, I thought he meant Power envy. I guess it depends on what you are doing while Parking (back seat). :surprise:
That may be why there is a lag in those posts shutting down, as many people haven't seen the messages yet.
I agree, no more dominance or benchmark postings :P
On to the cars, while I haven't yet seen the new Accord in person, I don't tend to like cars any bigger than the old one. In fact, I'd say my Acura TL is a tiny bit bigger than I prefer. For the Honda buyer who wanted a slightly smaller Accord, the new Accord is too much and the Civic may be too little. Alas...
Mitsubishi, I hope has a plan. They are a rare find around these parts, both cars and dealerships. I see an occasional Galant, maybe an Evo or two, and a couple times a week say one of those new Eclipse is spotted running down the freeway. It ain't looking pretty. If you could buy say a Galant for a thousand under what a similar Sonata discounted down to a rock bottom price line , would you consider it?
L
Except the players involved already KNOW they shouldn't be discussing these things. This isn't the first (or second, or third, or fourth, or....) time this has happened. And it's always the same people. I've even been guilty a few times but enough is enough.
Hey, what is Ford doing these days. Have not heard about anything Bold yet. How about the RWD cars to come, if any? Maybe it is all in the skunk works, with some interesting stuff to be sprung upon us in a year or two??? Loren
Wonder what happens if you take a Porsche Boxster in there for, what is it, some 8 qts. or more of synthetic. Would they have the filter, or be able to find the filter. Heck, even the Miata has a hard to get to filter. Of course the engine is easy to find.
Is it the Sonata which has some sort of new filter system where only a core is changed out? How does that work? - L
Have you seen the new CTS? What ya think?
goodnight from the left coast - L
No, I don't go for "luxury cars". Too much $$ for things I don't even want. My Accord has a few things I could easily do without.
The Fusion and MKZ will be refreshed next year with exterior and (more importantly) interior tweaks (look at the Flex for a hint). Fusion gets a hybrid, the 3.5L engine, and a new 4 cylinder engine (2.5L I think). The MKZ should get the new 3.7L V6 and a new interior similar to the MKS (I'm guessing on that last one).
The next generation Fusion/Milan/MKZ will now share the same platform as the European Mondeo. Ditto for the NA and Euro Focus. The new B car will be out in a couple of years and looks like it will be worth the wait.
The new RWD North American platform will be a joint design with the Aussies called the Huntsman. Should replace all the current RWD cars and allow new products to be built like the Interceptor and MKR. Unfortunately it's in the early stages and won't be ready for at least 3 years.
So wait, you mean to tell me that rental cars, which have only been driven very gently by the nicest of individuals (of course with the upmost concern for Mr. Hertz or Mr. Avis' investment in the vehicle they are piloting), or municipal vehicles (which are actually titled differently) that were merely driven by a city's caring and distinguished employees, are worth less in the resale market than a low mileage, one owner cream-puff? You don't say.
Why would they name a car a TuRD?
I guess its the bean counters at their finest but I would gladly trade the automatic dimming inside rear-view mirror for a better grade of carpeting. This stuff is really flimsy, Wal-Mart grade.
Allen, I believe FoMoCo really has a winner with the Fusion/Milan/MKZ trio. They are not perfect, of course, but very competitive in their respective market segments.
I didn't notice the quality of the carpeting until I vacuumed. Hopefully Ford will continue to improve these models into the future.
I also hope the government makes it mandatory that turn signal blinkers be incorporated into all outside rear-view mirrors. The Fusions don't have that but it is a very nice safety feature I believe.
So, you're a two Accord family? Neat. Can you detect a lot of improvement in 14 years? How many miles on the '93? Was your experience with the 1993 what made you decide on the 2007? Just curious.
Our overall satisfaction with a 1997 Thunderbird and with a 2000 Ford Focus was a factor in our decision to buy a 2007 Fusion.
:sick:
van
I am not a good person to ask. The '93 was just sold with 145k, the vehicle was not "maintenance free" over the course of its life, but it was acceptable. Honda was at the top of their game in the early 90s with fun sporty cars. I always liked the way the car drove, I thought the handling was very good. The 5 speed transmission was one of the best in the business (if the throws were a little long) and the car had an upscale feel (the fabrics and carpets felt very high quality). Even the sound system (an Alpine designed unit, I believe) was good for '93. I got about 30 mpg with it on my 20-30 minute commute, which is almost all highway with very little traffic - and I typically accelerate slowly although I cruise quickly).
I really don't think you can compare the '93 to the '07, the '93 was a compact/midsized vehicle designed to be sporty and fun to drive, while still being economical. The '07 is designed to isolate the driver from the fact that they are driving. I guess its bigger, if that is how one measures improvement. It has 20 more horsepower, but its also several hundred pounds heavier. It has bigger wheels, but they use some obscure tire size so its much harder to find actual performance tires than it was for the old Accord. It does a great job holding an infant seat, but so did the old Accord (both in comparison to our Subaru Legacy, which does a lousy job, IMHO). Oh, it has an RKE that can also roll down the windows, like on VWs a few years ago, the old Accord didn't have a clicker thing. The sound system has a 6 CD changer but no input for an iPod (something the '93 offered via tape adapter).
My experience with the '93 was not so positive as to influence future Honda purchases, but not so negative as to preclude them either.
My biggest purchase factors were price and availability of a manual transmission. To that end, I think I did okay but not great. I am going back and forth with the idea of leaving it totally stock and selling it in 2-3 years, or modifying it into something I would enjoy more knowing I will be stuck with it forever.
Actually, at this point, because the Legacy wagon does such a poor job with an infant seat, I might be swapping cars, and since the Legacy has a much sportier ride and driving feel, I might be okay with that.
Nah, I am reasonably well educated and I even know what it stand for and still call it that. Its on all the Toyota trucks in CA. Its the same reason you don't see FaRT for Ford Racing Team.
Sad.
:sick:
Right. And there hasn't been any change in power or emissions requirements, either.
The 1977 Trans-Am had a 6.6L V8 and only made 200 hp. My 3.0L Fusion makes 221 and it puts out far less emissions.
In its class the Fusion / Milan look pretty good. Most likely not the styling which has held it back from being a leader. Would be an interesting survey to do - which car, in mid-size, and under $25K looks the best to you? Just for a moment forget the all the other attributes, and only consider the looks. And in a larger sized car? L
Now we should by now be seeing better fuel economy though on some cars. Due to weight of safety equipment and structure, without the expensive aluminum, it appears we are getting fatter. More plastics and aluminum eventually will come into play, I would guess, along with it higher prices.
At 29 MPG freeway mileage, I am happy with my fuel economy when power is compared to the past, per amount of gas consumed.
And a Honda is pretty clean burning. Actually, Ford, GM and a World of better cars for emission control is now available. So yes there is some progress. L
I gave a realistic example. Let me make it more concrete for you so that you can see it's a fair example:
Car A = Accord EX-L V6 or Camry XLE V6 (with VSC option). MSRP on each is about $28k. There are no rebates on these cars. $2000 off is a pretty good discount at this time. Maybe some will get a better discount, but some will not.
Car B = Sonata Limited V6. MSRP is about $25k. Typical rebates on the Sonata for the past two years have been $2000-3000, once the model-year changeover is done. Assume $2500 in rebates and near-invoice pricing for a total discount of $4000. This is a realistic discount based on reports from the Sonata Prices Paid discussion. Again, some will get better deals and some won't.
If you don't think it's fair that not all automakers offer the same level of rebates and discounts on their mid-sized cars, don't complain to me about it. :surprise:
Maybe you can't see why Accord and Camry cost higher than its competitors but that doesn't mean that's the case in other people's eyes.
Just so that you'll know, there are people out there drive a Honda or Toyota not because they care about how other people see them. It's because of they have good experience with the brand and they see something special in Accord and Camry's offering.
I can honestly say I believe the 2007-08 Fusion is the best-looking mid-size car available today. It is distinctive in a very pleasing way. It stands out from the plain-Jane Asian lookalikes.
Problem with the discounting is that it becomes a constant reminder of a car which is not making it in the market place, like the top contenders. It becomes a constant reminder, and tarnishes image. People, to a degree, may also be buying image as a part of the car. Think of a Jetta, when it was quite the thing. In my college town, there those Jettas due to the coolness factor and telling Daddy she needed a safe car, factors were just about the number one car around the campus. Bet it is a harder sell to get the kid to drive a Hyundai. Of course in my day, we bought our own car, and it would usually be used, or sometimes really used, depending on how much we could save.
Then you have the dealership network -- is it strong for Hyundai?
Loren
If brand image fails to meet reality, any brand will drop off the map. So far the Big Two have not dropped off the map.
Does this all mean that there are but two cars to choose from which make sense? OF COURSE NOT. All people are trying to get accross here on the board (well most are, with some fanatics) is that it is more than just image, though they have a good image which doesn't hurt sales, and that the total price in and out is going to be about the same or better in some cases. Not every case - it is possible that an Accord or Camry could in some scenario cost a couple thousand more, as well as, costing someone else a couple thousand less to own. Life has variables. Main thing is liking or loving what you own, and it not becoming a pain. There is no right or wrong here, but rather some interesting options. If they ever bring back inexpensive RWD mid-sized to smaller cars, we shall have even greater options. L