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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    you assume that buyers are logical and know how or are willing to do even basic research. a friend of mine who just bought a used xterra spent about as much as a person who could have gotten a new one with more than just 600 miles left on his warranty. why? who knows... but probably he saw the car and justified in his mind that buying used was saving him a lot of money when it wasn't. of course, I didn't have the heart to tell him that he paid too much, but it just goes to show there are a lot of buyers of used cars who don't pay a lot of attention to the prices of new ones. all they see is the big difference between msrp and what KBB says and think they are saving a lot.

    I'm not saying it's fair that I could sell my 18 month car with only a 10% reduction in price (using KBB's private party value for my car), but that's the way they price it and I'm surely not compaining. But if I were to go back on the market to look for another car that could take the twisties like a mazda6 and could also hold a coffee table fully assembled in the back and look good doing it, I'd be buying another Mazda6.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Posts: 544
    I've had three midsizers over 100,000 miles, a 1991 Mazda 626 DX manual, a 1990 Accord EX automatic, and a 1998 Mazda 626 ES-V6 manual. (actual photos below- better pics and more interior pics coming)

    See more Car Pictures at

    See more Car Pictures at

    See more Car Pictures at
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    I think the only car in the fleet that didn't do well over 100k was the '83 Reliant. If the Caravan hadn't been exactly the right vehicle at the right time, I think Chrysler would've been off the list. That said, that minivan was fantastic in every way including reliability and durability.
    Everything else was somewhere between 140 and 190k.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Boy, that sure is a lot of motoring. Apparently you hold onto your cars for quite awhile, too. That's one way to get your money's worth. :)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    exactly, car resale values whether it be through a dealer or private party will always be related to what a new version costs on late model cars, and the reason why those values tend to plummet when a particular vehicle starts being rebated and/or sold with bought down finance rates. The KBBs and NADAs of the world have a tough time with current real dollar values esp. at the point that the mfgr has to offer those rebates and other 'deals' to clear their inventories.
    The only time that I've seen a car 'appreciate' after purchase is when it is hard-to-get and/or in very high demand (the Prius and the Mini come to mind) exactly the opposite of the situation with have with any of the cars in this group (to varying degrees).
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229

    I don't think the '09 F-150 was before Fields though and it has an Escape/Focus like interior in this spy shot.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Boy that is one ugly dash, don't care what it is from. :sick:
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Actually it was done BF (Before Fields). He took one look at it and sent the designers back to the drawing boards - for sheetmetal changes. I don't think they changed the interior.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    They may want to rethink that then or at least do what GM does and offer two interiors. IIRC one of the comments I read made the point that work gloves won't be able to push those tiny buttons. That person is very right.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    It's possible they're changing the interior, too. Then again - this is the F150, not the Superduty.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    I just think its funny that you guys (not necessarily you captain) keep talking about cost of ownership, which uses KBB #'s for depreciation, and saying how an Accord is so much better, but then when I show you that my Mazda6 has very little depreciation from what I paid for it you then say that KBB is not credible. So which is it guys?!?! You guys should do the budget for United States...all smoke and mirrors.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    These numbers come from another forum. I am not aware of the source. Believe these are figures for June.

    Check out these % retail figures. Nearly 80% fleet sales for the Avenger and a dismal 63.5% fleet for the Sebring.

    Make Model - total sales / retail sales / retail % / incentive

    Honda Accord - 28,915 / 27,498 / 95.1% / $0

    Toyota Camry - 46,630 / 43,039 / 92.3% / $0

    VW Passat - 3,563 / 3,249 / 91.2% / $750

    Subaru Legacy - 7,420 / 6,269 / 84.5% / $1,000

    Nissan Altima - 25,935 / 21,681 / 83.6% / $500

    Mercury Milan - 2,764 / 2,144 / 77.6% / $1,000

    Saturn Aura - 4,694 / 3,581 / 76.3% / $1,000

    Ford Fusion - 12,435 / 9,102 / 73.2% / $1,000

    Hyundai Sonata - 15,080 / 10,917 / 72.4% / $2,000

    Mitsubishi Galant - 3,026 / 1,954 / 64.6% / $4,000

    Pontiac G6 - 10,892 / 6,949 / 63.8% / $1,250

    Mazda 6 - 3,814 / 2,185 / 57.3% / $3,750

    Kia Optima - 3,106 / 1,466 / 47.2% / $2,650

    Chevy Impala - 35,849 / 16,526 / 46.1% / $1,500

    Chevy Malibu - 7,872 / 3,243 / 41.2% / $1,250

    Chrysler Sebring - 10,249 / 3,740 / 36.5% / $1,000

    Dodge Avenger - 8,261 / 1,701 / 20.6% / $0
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The host of these forums ( is projecting that my Mazda6 will hold it's own vs. the accord in the depreciation category, too.

    2007 MAZDA6i Sport Value Edition (2.3L 4cyl 5A), which I bought for $16,200 has the following expected resale value according to edmunds:
    Year 1: $15,406
    Year 2: $13,469
    Year 3: $11,765
    Year 4: $10,254
    Year 5: $8,898

    For the comparable 2007 Honda Accord Special Edition 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A), which I believe would have cost me at least $3000 more than the 6 (ie. $19,200, or more) they have Expected Resale Value:
    Year 1: $17,240
    Year 2: $14,978
    Year 3: $12,989
    Year 4: $11,225
    Year 5: $9,642

    So the Accord is predicted to have a higher resale value, but not nerly enough to make up for the higher initial price. In my case I'll likely keep my car for more than 10 years, so it does not really matter, anyway. But even after only 3 years, the difference is about $1000. I think there are very few people who did not save well over $1000 by buying a Mazda6 instead of a comparably equipped Accord.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    One note on fleet sales - you really need an entire year's worth of data since rental fleet sales especially tend to go in cycles and are not evenly distributed through the year.

    It is interesting data nonetheless.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Good point, Allen. :)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,022
    The only midsizers with significant reviews (over 100) on Edmunds with a score over 9.0 out of 10 leaves you with only two choices:

    The overpriced Aura
    Or the bargain basement (right now) 2007 Accord
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    What is that box thing on the top with the red thing that looks like a plunger? ("Box thing, "red thing" and "plunger" are, of course, technical terms. ;))
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    What is that box thing on the top with the red thing that looks like a plunger?

    Ford and other mfrs tend to have big red plunger looking things in their test mules. I have no idea what they are really for but I'm guessing that they are some sort of kill switch in case something goes terribly, terribly wrong. :surprise:

    You would think it would do something cool like explode spy photographer's cameras or something but obviously it doesn't. :D
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,246
    Maybe it causes smoke bombs to go off to give a screen for the car to escape the papparazi's cameras.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • dsiriasdsirias Posts: 34
    ( on midsized sedans) assuming a properly installed factory option...... I'm getting a lot of conflicting information.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    I would think it would improve MPG over no deflector with the sunroof open and reduce MPG over no deflector with the sunroof closed.
    The desirability is that it can reduce wind buffeting while still allowing additional ventilation.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Wrong. A lot of the ratings have been refreshed for the 2008MY, thus you see few number of reviews for many cars listed here. For 2007, a good amount were over 9.0 and at least 100 reviews.

    FYI - these reviews represent a tiny sample of the population.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Yep - it cuts all power to the car instantly to avoid damage. It's rarely used but I guess it would only take one time to make it worthwhile.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    there sure seems to be a correlation between those cars that hold value well (and those mfgrs. having some financial problems) vs. % fleet sales, isn't there?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh okay - my naivete. Never heard of that.

    It reminded me of those cartoon plunger TNT things (was that Wyle E. Coyote who was always doing that? Am I telling on my age?? :)) so I started to wonder if it would blow up the car itself, but I was afraid someone might think that was a partisan comment, which it wouldn't have been, so I didn't. :P
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    it cuts all power to the car instantly to avoid damage
    ahh yes, a stability control system ;)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Edmunds hasn't caught up with the effects of that absurd 4 grand rebate yet (and 5 years from now). But you are right about one thing, if you are one of those few people that keep a car for 10 years, the more rebate (and the cheaper) the better.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    The only midsizers with significant reviews (over 100) on Edmunds with a score over 9.0 out of 10 leaves you with only two choices:

    The overpriced Aura
    Or the bargain basement (right now) 2007 Accord

    Or you can test drive these cars and buy what you like and form your own opinions instead of being herded around like a sheep. BAAAAhhh!!!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Thank you Captain Obvious.

    Why do you think GM and Ford are cutting back on daily rental fleet sales (GM still has a ways to go but Ford is getting there).

    One thing to remember is that fleet contracts are usually for a specific number of units done months in advance. So if a vehicle's retail sales volume falls from the previous year then the percentage of fleet sales will go up even though the actual number never changed from what was projected.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    your previous point about monthly numbers being a 'snapshot' is likely right on - think a good portion of these fleet sales has to do with overproduction and inventory levels as well as 'slow' retail sales. So therefore, these percentages should go up and down except in those cases where the mfgr. (by policy) doesn't get involved too much in fleet sales. The unfortunate is that for some of these mfgrs., cutting production to match sales is easier said than done.
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