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Nobody said they were having "widespread problems". Why does everything have to be black or white with you? I just said they're not perfect - I didn't say they were bad.
Vid of new Mazda6
Nice evolution from the current design... still sleek and muscular but more chiseled. I'd have to agree with my uncle (a lexus ls430 and RV driver) who thinks Mazda has the best design theme for their cars right now of all the non-exotics.
The real test will be when the 09 Fusion comes out. That's when you'll start getting repeat buyers and leasors. Right now every Fusion sale is a new customer. I bet at least 50% of Camcord sales are to previous owners.
You also have a much improved Kia lineup and a new Mazda6 coming out next year. Should be interesting.
And personally, if I have to take an extra day without my car out of 1800 days (five years) with my free loaner from Mazda as part of my warranty, that's ok with me if I get a car that looks better, drives better, brakes better, and has more cargo carrying ability while costing thousands less. But some people will like the Accord's softer ride, a more stately interior, more comfy seats, or larger interior. But the difference in reliabilty wasn't significant enough for me to make a decision based on it if I use data coming from both consumer reports and jd powers.
I didn't read any "good" or "bad" inferences in Allen Kirby's post, merely that many Camcord sales are based on satisfied repeat customers. Satisfied previous customers are not possible with the Fusion because 2006 was the first model year. However, the 2009 Fusion may well entice satisfied owners to purchase a newer version.
Satisfied customers are a good thing for all manufacturers and certainly do help explain the high sales totals for Camry and Accord, which are fine automobiles, generally.
Many, many diverse factors are involved in the car-buying-decision process. I prefer the styling of the Fusion to everything else in the mid-size sedan segment and believe it has just as many creature comforts. The Ford, Lincoln, Mercury dealer in our city, Sherwood of Salisbury, Md., is aces in my book. That was another positive factor in the Fusion's favor.
If FoMoCo continues to improve the Fusion, Milan and MKZ, then it stands to reason that satisfied owners are likely to become repeat customers, thereby boosting sales. Ford is in the unenviable position of having to "win back" some customers. The Fusion trio is likely to do just that. These are fine automobiles, in my book, and extremely competitive with everything in their class.
Exactly! I guess it's hard to read and comprehend some things when you're wearing blinders.
On my last domestic I had three separate examples of the manufacturer not wanting to admit to a major problem. (Transmission troubles, rear diff troubles, engine cranking troubles).
That's where I'm coming from. I had a great dealer, but they can only be as good as the manufacturer. They just don't have enough money to keep fixing customers cars when the manufacturer won't stand behind.
And in my recent experience, and the recent experiences of my extended family members in different parts of the state, there is a major difference between the various manufacturers.
Let's talk about the cars themselves, okay?
OTOH, I have been reading about a guy who has had a tough time with a dealership. He mailed the survey form to Honda stating his experience (which was not good). A few days later, the dealership was telling him that he should not have done that. So, this guy’s voice made it to Honda and they took it seriously, and contacted the dealership.
It does not make sense to me why Toyota won't offer you the same warranty. A friend of mine with his Honda had transmission trouble a few years ago, and he got brand new warranty on it (back then it was 3 years/36K miles).
While some mfrs and dealers may be better than others you simply can't say one does this and the others don't just because of YOUR experience.
More than likely this wonder car will turn into a rotten mess as it ages..... but yes, a wonder car that is class leading by every measure would outsell the Camcords in 5 to 10 years time, if it proved to be as reliable.
Fill up tank
Reset Trip Computer
Drive until the low-fuel warning is on
Refuel and calculate
In case of TL, I also compare it indicated average mpg in the trip computer. I’m surprised that people find getting 25-26 mpg (in mixed driving) in a V6 sedan to be unrealistic. One guy simply won’t believe that TL would get any better than 29 mpg on highway but that I was getting 32 mpg at over 70 mph. The only way I could prove it over the internet was via pictures, with an open invitation to see it happening in person.
If not for a daily occurrence that is traffic jams (on the way in and back to work), my cars might actually do a little better. I don’t remember having posted this, but the longest no (gas) stop trip I have taken was in my Accord from Dallas to Memphis (507 miles driven). The distance was covered in 6 hours and 45 minutes, including a 5-7 minute rest area stop. I refueled next morning with 15.8 gallons, and that computed to 32 mpg, probably the best mileage I have seen in any car with a very high average speed.
Coincidentally, the best I have done in the (lot more powerful) TL is 72.5 mph and 32 mpg over a distance of about 270 miles from Houston to Dallas. The car actually averaged 29 mpg over 695 miles which includes 80-85% highway driving, rest city.
If my cars can get low 30s at speeds that I drive in, getting mid-30s might be possible in the new Accord (both, I-4 and V6), but I won’t know for sure until having tried it myself.
PS. I just remembered having posted this log couple of weeks ago from my last two road trips in fuel economy thread.
Perhaps they are ignored because it hasn't happend to their Accord or Civic yet. In fact, not only has it not happened to hardly anyone's own vehicle, but I've never seen a wheel fall off a Civic, anywhere, at anytime, in my entire life!
Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Being that it will only achieve it's advertised 29 mpg using the VCM programming, you had better plan on proving mid-30s on some flat land. Add hills and you'll be in V6 mode a lot I'd wager. Seeing if Honda found a way around that is what I think is yet to be seen.
Just for the record I was not one to ridicule you for calling your Honda's less than flawless. I was just curious in asking you what you found to be the flaws with them... I figured they'd be minor, or else you wouldn't be a so-called "Honda" guy.
The NHTSA doesn't issue recalls for non-existent problems.
If they had not done both of those things free of charge, I'd be blasting Honda almost as bad as I do Chrysler. Also, Honda gave me a free rental car while I was getting my tranny replaced.
I don't see too many people forgiving a bad tranny unless the manufacturer stands behind it; Honda did, Dodge didn't.
It was night and day, black and white.
Please stop making these ridiculous statements. They're not true.
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
1998 Honda Accord EX-L/AT (Overall Mileage Ratings)
Old EPA: 26 mpg (City/Hwy: 23/30)
New EPA: 23 mpg (City/Hwy: 20/27)
My Experience: 26 mpg (32-33 mpg at over 70 mph)
2006 Acura TL/AT (Overall Mileage Ratings)
Old EPA: 24 mpg (City/Hwy: 20/29)
New EPA: 21 mpg (City/Hwy: 18/26)
My Experience: 25-26 mpg (32 mpg at over 70 mph)
So these cars do way better than EPA rating on highway. In fact, it is easy to get EPA's new highway rating with 50% city driving thrown in! As a matter of fact, my 1998 Accord has NEVER done worse than 23 mpg on a tank (and that happened when I lived only 2 miles from work). But the new EPA rating says 20 mpg.
If the trend stays, the new Accord V6 might actually get 27-28 mpg in mixed driving with highway mileage in mid 30s. If it were rated using old standard, the EPA rating would be 22/32 mpg (-1 mpg compared to my 1998 Accord in city and +2 mpg compared to my Accord on highway).
As for hills etc, the second generation VCM should do better since now it won't rely on I-3 mode as much (which is likely to be used primarily for low speed cruising around town). V4 is probably going to be the norm, unless driver demands power. So, fuel economy should be more like an I-4.
Honda has now replaced the VCM in 2008 Odyssey with this new version. The old system engaged less since I-3 was often less capable to motivate a 4600 lb vehicle. V4 should have less trouble.
I've never seen Grand Canyon myself either but based on the people who've actually seen it, 90% said it's great and 10% said it's not worth the hype.
Based on that until I've seen it myself I'll tend to believe the "perception" which has the 90% to back it up.
I've driven the following vehicles:
1990 ranger - 5 years
1995 ranger - 5 years
2000 Lincoln LS - 6 years
1999 Expedition - 5 years
None of those vehicles had any out of warranty repair costs (and I drove them at least 2 years past the warranty). The day they were traded in there were no shakes or rattles. Nothing was broken or worn out or faded or cracked.
You're basing your opinions on 10-20 year old vehicles - that simply isn't the case anymore.
So your tranny died in your wonderful Fusion?
I'm curious to hear about this story? After warranty? And they stepped up?
How many miles did you drive in those 5 to 6 years?
I am talking about how a car operate in years 6-10. Those are the critical years, as every car will begin to have problems, but it is the amount/quantity and severity of those problems that counts!
Some cars rot and fall apart, literally. You repair one thing, and then another, and then another, and then another.
Some get a couple minor repairs and are well on their way to 200K miles with them, before they will need more repairs again.
Let's go a step further, if you are betting on college football, would you bet on traditional SEC, Big 10 powerhouses and USC or Fresno State and Louisville?
Let's talk pre-season because that's more like buying a new car.
I'd take a 'dream team of aging veterans" any day over a team of outstanding rookies when it comes to playoff time. Playoff time is what counts, regular season is meaningless (except to get you into the playoffs or other home field advantages and seating position)
That's why The Chicago Bulls won not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, but 6 Championships with MJ and SP.
It's why the Patriots tore the shreds out of the Chargers last year in the playoffs, even though the Chargers were 14-2 and New England had a mediocre regular season.
Honda looks to be like the Patriots right now, and Toyota perhaps is Indianapolis. The Chargers are off to a slow start this year... maybe they are Saturn....
The recall may have had something to do with the problem, or may not have had anything to do with it.... who knows..
The dealer did "claim" my tranny looked as good as new when they took photographs of it at 32K....
Bears are like Hyundai - good for a while then flat.
49s are like Ford/GM/Chevy - good, then horrible then up and coming.
Well, they are arrogant - I'll give them that one. But I didn't think Honda was stealing Toyota's product plans with a video camera.
I hope Honda and Toyota don't think the domestics are a threat. It will make it that much easier to surpass them.
Ummm yes. Just as many people bought American makes 1-2-3 times and got burnt each time. They are better though, and truth in point is that my buddy's broke down tranny accord sits as he waits for his 08 to be delivered...
No, actually, I'd never say that. I think 10 years with 200K is a reasonable lifetime for a quality automobile. After that point, the rest is gravy and a bonus.
One of the main reasons people don't keep their vehicles 10 years usually is probably because domestics don't last that long.
I don't believe that will be the case. I have seen more TV ads for Toyota and Honda in the last month than the total for the previous nine months or so. The Honda Accord ads are almost as numerous as the Toyota Tundra ads.
I suppose stealing Toyota's product plans would be a "competitive advantage."
I don't think Honda is arrogant however.... they just know they got a good thing going.
Either post about the specifics of the vehicles in this segment and knock off the chest-beating or go find some other boxing arena. Please!
One of the main reasons people don't keep their vehicles 10 years usually is probably because domestics don't last that long.
I've never owned an automobile that had 100,000 miles on the odometer, let alone 200,000. My wife and I are, however, a three-Ford family. In addition to our 2007 SEL AWD Fusion, we own and drive a 1997 Ford Thunderbird, 86,000 miles, and a 2000 Ford Focus station wagon, 94,000 miles.
Our generally good experience with these two Ford products was a factor in our decision to buy a Fusion, as opposed to an Accord or Camry. Hopefully, the Fusion will serve us as well as the T-Bird and Focus. We have, in the past, also owned three Mazda products and they were fine, too.
Besides the Accord, two of my other cars were well above 100K mark. The last I heard of my 1988 Corolla GT-S, it had 168K miles on the odometer and that was about 6-7 years ago (I had bought it with about 87K miles and sold it with a virtually flawless 138K miles). Interestingly enough, the only car that I didn’t drive into that mark was the only one that gave me some trouble (1992 Camry). The GT-S replaced it.
At this point, I can’t imagine cars with major trouble spots at less than 100K miles. And I’m not talking recalls as I would rather have that than have nagging issues that make me pay for repairs, the kind of story two of my VW owning buddies have had to share over last year.
Be careful, Boz! That 10 year old Ford is rotting to pieces and will fall apart any day now.