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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    Instrumentation (if you like red, I guess you like red) was not up with the semi-electroluminescent panel of my appearance pack LS.

    FWIW electroluminescent gauges are optional on pretty much every Mazda vehicle. In the 6 they are red too. The 3 gets nicer looking EL gauges IMO.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The 3 gets nicer looking EL gauges IMO

    They are being changed to white for the mid year model change in the Mazda3.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    A reporter seeks to interview buyers of models equipped with Ford Sync. Please respond to [email protected] no later than Friday, February 1 with your daytime contact information and a sentence or two about why you purchased Sync.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    All white or blue and white or red and white. They are blue and red now IIRC and look fantastic. All white would be a disappointment.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I really don't know. The blue is a blue light that shines down onto the gauge, it's not part of the back lighting.

    From what I have read, it will be all white, and no blue or red. I have to wait and see. We should be getting the revised 08's in the next 2 months or so.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The official photos of the Hyundai Sonata are out. Fortunately, the good looks of the 2006-2008 Sonata are now in the interior. Unfortunately, they exterior is now screwed up by some small details.

    image
    (Below is the 2008 Sonata, pre-refresh)
    image

    The new front-end, the wheel design... I dunno. Something about it says "XG350 L" to me - a VERY bad thing.

    By the way, if I recall correctly, the base engine now has 175 hp, with the 3.3L touting 249 hp.
  • I kinda like it,especially the wheels. Are they bigger?
  • I don't find either one offensive, but I don't think they will win an award for styling innovation. I think that is at least as much style as you can expect for the price.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,943
    I'm not crazy about the new front end, but in the photo above, in the dark color, it doesn't look as bad as I thought it did on other photos. But I really prefer the 5-spoke Euroflange wheels from before to the new ones. The new wheels remind me of the vent on my BBQ grill, which turns to open/close. To me, these wheels look like plastic covers. Maybe they look better in person. Maybe a dealer would switch them out for the old 5-spokers at no charge. ;)

    I am wondering if the sportier SE will have a different front end, at least a different grill, with less chrome?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I think the new grill looks better except front looks taller, but prefer the old headlights. I don't see much chrome :confuse: . (Less is more for me when it comes to chrome.)"

    The new wheels are awful, they do look like wheel covers and ugly ones at that.
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    I agree the original is better, but only slightly. Frankly I can think of no Hyundai mid-cycle freshenings that are real improvements, but no great disappointments either. The interior does look improved, but I didn't hate the original there either.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,943
    I thought the refreshed 2002 Sonata was a big improvement over the 1999-2001 models, and I liked the refresh of the 2004 Elantra also--mostly minor changes there, but good ones.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    I too think the front & rear refresh on the 2002 Sonata was a huge improvement.

    As for the 2009, in that one picture I don't know about the new grille. Maybe it will grow one me, but first impression is that it looks so Chrysler-ish. Regarding the wheels, we don't know if that picture is a GLS, SE or Limited. The current GLS has wheel covers so if the picture is of a GLS, they may well be wheel covers.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,943
    Pretty sure it's a Limited based on the chromed door handles (which have been available only on the Limited before), and also from what little I can tell about the wheels from the photos in the C/D comparo (which included a Limited), these seem to match. And they look like the high-end wheels displayed in previous home-market ads. Who knows, maybe the plastic covers on the GLS look better than these alloys! :)
  • karsickkarsick Posts: 312
    Yep..... the 2006 Sonata HAD a restrained, vaguely Audi-ish Bauhaus mojo, and now it appears that Mopar's Old Man Lido went to Korea to unleash some K-car styling cues on the refresh.

    Maybe wire wheel covers, a Landau roof and Opera Windows will be available! :mad:
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    On my monitor I cannot see if the door handles are chrome or black in that picture. The body side moldings, however, do appear to be chrome (color).

    In fact, to me, it looks like the area under the grille is a flat gray color. Maybe the coloring would look different in another picture.

    Edit: Just saw some other pix. Does NOT look gray under the grille. The door handles looked like they might be chrome with body color inserts.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I kinda like it,especially the wheels. Are they bigger?

    I think the wheels are what ruin it for me, actually.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,943
    The press release confirmed that the SE will have different wheels--hopefully more like the current 5-spoke alloys. The SE is the trim that interests me most anyway--esp. with that sport shifter! :)
  • Exactly what is everyone moaning about? I don't see enough significant change to warrant all the complaining. Someone doesn't like the "new" headlights which are similar in shape to the "old" headlights. The wheels? I wouldn't buy or not buy a particular car just because of the wheel design. Any changes to the exterior front are more refinement than outright changes. So to me, if you liked it before you should like it now. And both front end styles are better than the Camry and now the Accord as well. The interior is where changes are evident and welcome. Only recently did I start to agree with those who said the "old" interior design (dashboard) was dated. I guess it was since it now looks modern and fresh.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The wheels? I wouldn't buy or not buy a particular car just because of the wheel design.

    That's your perogative. I wouldn't buy a car because I particularly liked a design aspect before ever driving the vehicle.

    So to me, if you liked it before you should like it now.

    Well, I did, and now I don't. Sorry! It lost what little bit of an "edge" it had. The revised grill design with extra bars in it makes it look too "old" if that makes sense.

    Design beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Previously, I liked the exterior of the Sonata but was disgusted with the interior. Now, I like the interior, and am not necessarily disgusted with the exterior, but disappointed with it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,943
    We've only seen pics of the Limited. The GLS, and in particular the SE, may have different styling touches, e.g. maybe a more sporty grille and wheels on the SE. The Limited always had more chrome trim than the lower levels. Maybe that will be true for the 2009 car. We'll see...
  • I wish Hyundai would've simply upgraded the interior, and left the exterior alone, rather than tweaking both. I'm sure most others feel the same way. The more upright and taller nature of the grille and front part of the hood is most likely due to the European pedestrian safety requirements, as with the 2008 Accord. The new exterior design seems a bit busy to me, and I don't like the lower fascia beneath the bumper compared to the 2008 and before. It's very similar to the new gen Elantra. Since Hyundai benchmarked the Audi A6 with the Sonata's exterior design, I liked the clean look of the initial design better than the 2009. Chrome bits and pieces are just clutter, and do not appeal to me.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,943
    I think the "tallness" of the front end is an optical illusion. I don't think the 2009 front end is any taller than before. Note for example that it appears the same hood is on the 2009 as before.

    I don't like the chrome bits either. But maybe some folks do...
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    A limited number of pictures don't always tell the story. (As I said before, the first pic I saw was quite different from a later pic.)

    I'd like to see it in person before making a real judgement.

    Also, when the '06 first came out I didn't like it, much preferring the '05 style. Over time I became used to the '06 look and now like it. Any change can take a little getting used to...but for now I prefer the 06-08 grille.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,943
    Chrome is chrome. I've seen enough of it to know I don't like it. :)

    I liked the looks of the 2002-5 Sonata OK; it was somewhat Jaguar-esque and distinctive in its class. But I was immediately taken by the looks of the 2006 Sonata the first time I saw it close up, in late 2004 in Seoul, on an airport pedestal. I thought its clean lines would wear well over time, unlike the previous generation which now seems dated.
  • drwilscdrwilsc Posts: 140
    Consumer Reports now has the Camry V6 reliability being BELOW average, and they no longer can recommend the V6 version. So much for Toyota quality.

    What does Homer Simpson say: D'OH!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    So much for Toyota quality.

    That's a big so what. Toyota products are still flying off dealers lots. Yeah they may lose a big 3 sales. I wouldn't hesitate in a second to buy another Toyota product.
  • Your attitude only proves one thing, make a good name for yourself ( e.g.Toyota and Honda) and if after 10 or 15 years of having that reputation quality can begin to slip a little (or a lot for that matter) and the the name still sells cars. It isn't the car that sells but the reputation and the name. The car can be mediocre but so what it has TOYOTA on the front...sad. Hyundai has the reverse to some degree, e.g. the Pony sold in 1986 left a bad taste in some peoples mouths but Hyundai quality has improved dramatically in the last 5 years or more and they are still thought of as inferior. Too bad name perception overrules everything else.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Your attitude only proves one thing, make a good name for yourself ( e.g.Toyota and Honda) and if after 10 or 15 years of having that reputation quality can begin to slip a little (or a lot for that matter)

    No my attitude proves I haven't seen the slip in quality. I didn't buy the product due to the checkmark and I will not buy it due to lack of checkmark. They rank below Honda (#1) in customer service for this segment. There's not even an IMO attached to that last sentence.

    Who said their cars a mediocre? I don't buy mediocre cars and I don't listen to what other people say about them. Toyota is the master of form vs function, certainly other manufacturers can learn a lot.

    Hyundai has the reverse to some degree, e.g. the Pony sold in 1986 left a bad taste in some peoples mouths but Hyundai quality has improved dramatically in the last 5 years or more and they are still thought of as inferior. Too bad name perception overrules everything else.

    Some of their late model cars seem to be problematic as well, maybe that is why the (bad) reputation persists.
  • Some of their late model cars seem to be problematic as well, maybe that is why the (bad) reputation persists.

    Would you care to elaborate on that statement? I had a 2006 Sonata that I leased and then bought a 2006.5 KIA Optima. Both are great cars,but I liked the ride better on the Hyundai.Sadly I wanted the top model with a 4 cyl. engine which they didnt have at the time.
    BTW both now get the red check mark from CR
  • I would agree, Toyota's, especially Camrys, are still moving off of the dealers' lots. But, I would say that 99% of those buying them are totally uninformed of the recent quality glitches, either build-quality or mechanical issues, that exist. Only enthusiasts that participate in these forums know otherwise, or those average consumers who scrutinize interior and/or exterior panel gaps, and they are in the distinct minority. Many folks simply blindly buy Toyota based upon historical data.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Would you care to elaborate on that statement?

    The details and facts are irrelevant for this conversation, what matters is how the issues formed some perceptions in peoples minds.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    But, I would say that 99% of those buying them are totally uninformed of the recent quality glitches, either build-quality or mechanical issues, that exist

    I follow this stuff and I'm totally uninformed, maybe that is why "the masses" are also.

    Many folks simply blindly buy Toyota based upon historical data.

    Well that clearly is your interpetation. I don't buy any car based on reliability or paid survey ratings. I buy a car because I like the vehicle and the vehicle fits me in one aspect or another. That is not to say I don't do research, but there is little correlation between reliability ratings and your vehicle. Want to play the percentages? Vegas is the place then.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Toyota: No my attitude proves I haven't seen the slip in quality.

    Hyundai: Some of their late model cars seem to be problematic as well

    I guess it is all about perception, depsite the actual results say otherwise.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I guess you are not most buyers. There are a lot of people that buy a Toyota just because of the name, and what that name has meant over the last 20+ years, not nesessarley what they are known for now.
  • Aren't you the one that said that the Sonata was having some issues? I would like to know what they are.If you dont know,you shouldnt make the comment. If it was not you, I apologize in advance.
  • So, essentially you cannot come up with anything therefore "the facts are irrelevent" i.e. there are none.
  • "Who said their cars are mediocre"?? Certainly not me. I simply said a car could slowly become mediocre and if the name and reputation are perceived by the car buying public as good for a long enough duration people will still continue to mindlessly buy them.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    To you it means something, but to a lot of people, I'm guessing including myself, the supposed decline means nothing, zippo, nada. The facts, which are just interpeted information, is only relevant if you want it to be. Other than that, it is just another data point in the decision making process of buying a car, albiet an unimportant one to most people, except for yourself so it seems.
  • I'm happy you don't buy cars based on historical or empirical data, but many do. If you follow this stuff, how can you be uninformed on the engine and transmission issues, as well as some of the build-quality issues? Inconsistent panel gaps, especially in the interior of a Camry LE, including my 2007, are simply not acceptable. Toyota's didn't have these "glitches" before, but they do now. One can argue that it may be KY manufacturing process vs. Japanese, but if the system and QC are properly in place, the build-quality should be the same.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    It's easy for the Toyota faithful to ignore the empirical data if they haven't actually experienced a problem. Even some that do have problems will ignore them. OTOH I hear plenty of Tundra and FJ owners that won't set foot in a Toyota dealership again based on cracking frames, tailgates, transmissions, camshafts, etc. Even Toyota is starting to find out that when you lose a customer due to poor quality it's hard to get them back, especially truck buyers.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    While this Toyota faithful knows no company is not without it's faults or issues, the song and dance on this board is equivalent to how many angels can fit on a head of a pin. Sorry your Toyota is like that and they may lose a customer, but the conversation of whether Toyota is going down the tubes is silly. While it is true some consumers have long memories, others believe a mechanical product such as a car can break and if it breaks it gets fixed. But it shouldn't be junk out of the showroom.

    Why you can't get your car fixed, I don't know, but I hope you have a good resolution.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    a mechanical product such as a car can break and if it breaks it gets fixed.

    So that's ok for a Toyota but not for a Ford (or GM or Chrysler or Hyundai)? Can't have it both ways.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Within recent memory Toyotas have been solid cars, not the same for GM or Chrysler or Hyundai. Your right I can't have it both ways, but neither can the car manufacturers.

    And I'll go as far back as the mid-1980s with this conversation.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    Are you trying to say "recent memory" goes back to the mid-80's?

    Or are you saying, that until recently Toyota has made solid cars?

    Let's only go back 7 or 8 years...and, to me, that's a bit of a stretch of "recent" memory with all that has changed (mostly for the better across all brands) since the year 2000.
  • There you go again....""the supposed decline means nothing" and "the facts, which are just interpreted information, is only relevant if you want it to be" Clearly any decline in quality is irrevelent to you. Good luck.
    Oh, the post to which you answered with these gems of insight was aimed at your snipe at Hyundai indicating there were continuing problems with current cars. I follow Hyundai closely and I have not heard of any problematic cars/SUV's within the line. I was inviting you to support your claims with some facts. I am not really passionate about Toyota and only know what I read and I read there is trouble in paradise.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Toyota recalled 2.1 million vehicles in 2005.

    a series of recalls in the United States and Japan over the last two years have tarnished the automaker’s reputation for quality, and distressed Mr. Watanabe

    How solid is the Tundra? Camshaft anyone? How about an oil sludged Camry engine?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Oh, the post to which you answered with these gems of insight

    Oh great one, why don't you come down from the mountain and enlighten us unenlightned masses as to what this really means.

    As long as *I* am spending the dollars on my next car, these supposed issues have no bearing on my decision to buy a Toyota product. Even more so for something that has happened 3 model years ago. I'm less afraid of them not fixing it then Hyundai, GM and Ford.

    If one really wants to dive into recalls, information is available:
    here
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    Do you not see the hypocrisy in saying that you won't buy other brands because of reliability concerns yet you totally ignore all the empirical data that says Toyota is having the same quality issues now?

    I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a Toyota because, as you point out, reliability isn't everything. But you can't ignore statistics just because you don't like them.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    As I'm sure all of you will recall, the topic is midsize sedans. Not Toyota as a manufacturer. Auto News has several suitable discussions for that topic. ;)
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