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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • Metal suspenders? (Timing chain type) ;)
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    Looks "pissed off" in the front clip--road rage anyone?-- but a definite improvement on the present somewhat disjointed platform. I had a number of Mitsu/Chrysler captive imports in the seventies and eighties (remember the Arrow?) that I rather liked. Would like to see Mitsubishi come back but they need to refine their business plan. Existing cars seem to really come up short in interior fit and finish, not only to the front-line Japanese cars but to the Koreans as well.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I drive an Accord, so I don't actually know what repairs cost.

    That's cuz they put everything into the maintenance schedule...90K mi maintenance: rebuild engine, replace transmission, ... ;) :D

    But, seriously as someone else had mentioned an example is timing belt...replacement is maintenance on an Accord, but a repair on Ford's 2.0 Zetec engine in the Contour, etc.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    The family car was the '68 Cutlass way back when, then replaced with the '72 Cutlass -- very nice looking car. Sorry, but Olds. kinda lost it after the early 70's and was not so hot late 70's on. That said, a last of Cutlass 442 would be nice to have. The classic look of '68 was that Toronado. Most of the FWD stuff from GM though is lacking for around three decades. Looks wise, the last Aurora is pretty sharp, and better looking than the current Impala. And yes, I agree the clone car era is pretty sad. Or are we still in the clone era? Oh well, parts is parts. ;)
    L
  • I have owned 4 Nissans in the past 18 years with 3 of them using timing belts and never had any problems with the timing belts. Cost of replacement was not a problem since I did the replacement myself(More a pain of taking up time I could be doing something else).
    A couple months after I bought my 2002 Maxima a friend had the timing chain tensioner break on his 1998 Maxima leading to a costly repair. The car had a little over 60000 miles on it and was out of warranty. Neither system is foolproof but belts tend to be quieter and cheaper to build. All things considered I would rather have a chain simply since I usually keep my cars for a long time and it is 1 less maintainence item to deal with, although a chain can stretch and need replacement after many years of use.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    That Contour reminds me of my first new car, an Opel Manta Rallye. Well, with a couple extra doors on it, I may add. As I recall the crash testing did not go well for that car. Then the car sales crashed. It just never flew. I wish they would make another car sort of like that Opel I had. Nice little coupe. Today one has a mostly choices of designs which look similar to each other, with too tall doors, and huge headlamps, which evidently is the replacement for chrome and other accents of the cars of yesteryears. I suspect within the decades time, new car door will no longer use windows, and you will peer through a submarine scope to see around. And those trunks will be up to roof top heights, so in a way the station wagon returns :P I ended up getting an Accord '07, which may be the last of the reasonable ( a little big ) sized Accords, with tall, but not as tall doors, with large 17" wheels, but not wagon wheel sized, and a bit large eyes, yet not overtaking the entire front just yet, car! When I decide to change this car for something else some day, perhaps it will have to be used. I mean enough already with the little windows and big butts on cars. Those 17" wheels cost enough to replace, I am not looking for a 20" wheel car some day.

    As for maintenance, like radiator flush and such, I would take it to an independent which charges much less than the dealership or those specialty experts for Imports, which translates into, let's double the price. A neighbor took a rock in his Volvo headlamp. They replaced the whole thing at something like $450. Dang, that use to be an engine overhaul :D And you can still get a GM 350 engine for what, say $1,750? This was just a crack on the headlamp, not a major incident. Wonder what Volvo charges for a $30 oil change -- $60 - $80 ??? Just nuts.
    L
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I can remember when you could buy one rectangular sealed halogen headlight, and it would fit either your car, or your truck. Those days are long gone, never to return. Now each car has it's own special headlight design :(
  • I can remember when you could buy one rectangular sealed halogen headlight, and it would fit either your car, or your truck. Those days are long gone, never to return. Now each car has it's own special headlight design

    I have yet to have to replace a lamp assembly on a modern vehicle. Most of those vehicles used a very standardized, very easy to find 9006 bulb, which I have had to replace on every vehicle I've had. The outside housing might be special but the bulb inside is a standard (I know, HID bulbs are different, but that whole system is different).
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    $200 to $400 when ya do have to replace the headlights. How about those yellowing or white headlamp covers. I wonder how many can be sanded or polished out to look clear again, or are they just a goner?

    What is really interesting is the return of the round. I think we will see this on some retro theme cars. And, call me crazy, some cars just look so good with a simple round headlamp, you wonder if they are just trying too hard these days to bling. Those small round lamps, I take it, did not work out so well for the Integra Acuras?
    L
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    If GM comes out with a RWD Pontiac G6 (hopefully will have found a name some day) would you consider it? Will GM ever have a RWD car of similar size of the Epsilon platform? Seems like the last poor-man's RWD car with a four cylinder or a V6 died with the last 240SX Nissan sold in USA. You can buy a Miata or Solstice/Sky, but nothing larger in RWD until you get into the big bucks, as in BMW3. The CTS appears to be as costly now as a Bimmer 3. Would there not be some real demand for RWD cars, which handle well, in the sub $25K range? Would it really cost all that much more? Was there not a time when all domestic cars had RWD? How about a nice little Nova RWD, with some handling to it?

    I don't care if a car holds four pieces of luggage, instead of six, or it can in theory seat five, when they really carry four. Heck, give me two doors instead of four, or make both models, just get back to some good old fashion style and handling cars which can spin the rears!
    :shades: Loren
  • A water pump is not mechanical? It is software perhaps?

    So he has only 6 years and 122k miles to go to make it to that magic 300k and 20 years with virtually no repairs. Good luck to him!


    Wow, does someone have a chip on their shoulders. Looks like there are alot replies since I posted and I'm sure someone likely has stated it. The water pump DID NOT need to be replaced. It's just makes sense and is usually much cheaper to get it replaced during the timing belt change. Who knows how long it would have lasted.

    If you've read my post. My 64 year old father is not looking to go to 300K. He's just aiming to get to 200K w/o any mechanical breakdowns as you asked prior if anyone knew of someone with alot of mileage with little to no unscheduled mechanical repairs. Everything I listed fit your request other than the 20 year/300K, which I stated at the beginning of my response that it was 16 years old and nearing 200K. Not to take a shot at ya, but maybe you should educate yourself with what's usually scheduled vs unscheduled repairs.

    Take it easy bub. It's just car talk. Sorry you had a such a negative experience with whatever make and models you've owned.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    What? Do you live in a different world?

    Every manufacturer has a destination charge. The destination charge is a straight pass through with no mark-up for he dealer. It IS a cost of the car.

    Since the manufacuters set a flat rate destination charge years ago, they could have built destination into the invoice price, but they chose not to, presumably so they could advertise a lower price.

    If you look at an MSRP sitcker, you will see the the total MSRP includes a destination charge.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,911
    You didn't say you replaced the water pump proactively, until now. You did say the car had no mechanical repairs, then said the water pump was replaced. Those two things didn't seem to sync, without the additional information you just provided. And the comment about the 6 more years to go etc. was not aimed at you. Sorry if you were offended by that.

    As for my negative experiences, as I noted earlier, the only car I've owned in over 30 years that did not fit the "virtually no repairs" rule was a Honda. But I still like Hondas. I just don't like what they cost relative to other alternatives.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    If GM comes out with a RWD Pontiac G6 (hopefully will have found a name some day) would you consider it?

    No, I would not consider any RWD car. It is just much easier to have FWD, when you live where there is winter.

    Would there not be some real demand for RWD cars,

    Not from me, and I am guessing there would be little demand in the snow belt.

    I don't feel it is needed, but most people around here love AWD/4WD.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    an Opel Manta Rallye........wish they would make another car sort of like that Opel I had.
    a man with some taste! had one myself - and ran autocross with it! Opels got a bad name from some 1100cc tin cans (which I also owned) and by the time they got around (72?)to the 1900 (and a tight handling good lookingt sedan) you are talking about. Buick couldnt sell enough of them and as Opel prices went up and up becuase of the mark to dollar exchange rate were forced then to source the car out of Japan (Isuzu?) by the mid 70s - which were even worse POSs than even the Toyotas and Datsuns (Nissans) of he mid and late 60s.
    Opel is still a respected brand in Europe, and has the best selling car over there, the upcoming replacement for the Saturn Ion is that car - unfortunately saddled with the Ecotec 4). We also owe the Aura and the CTS to some of that German engineering.
    Headlights- here's one for you - own a HID equipped Avalon, got into a really minor fender bender, headlight lense had a scratch in it - headlight only available as an 'assembly' - cost to replace $1100.00 plus labor!
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    I believe it was noted previouisly that we should expect 270 HP from the new Mazda6 3.7L V6. See below. Should be quite a performer if it is in fact lighter than the previousl gen. Depending on torque, I wouldn't be surprised to see high 5s in the 0-60 test if all else holds true.

    Base engine: 2.5l I4 - 190-200hp
    Optional Engine: 3.7l PFI V6 - 280hp
    AWD optional
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    My original post/reply was directed at comments by a 2007 Sonata owner who felt his car didn't have enough power. He lives in western Pa which is mountainous and I noted we traveled to western Pa using rented Optima's and Sonata's at various times recently. Some here may remember that at the time I had sort of an informal comparison between the Optima and a Ford Fusion (both 4cyl. automatics) that I subsuquently rented after turning in the Optima.. Anyhow I commented that I felt the Optima/Sonata both felt sufficiently powerful even with 4 passengers and their luggage climbing the Allegheny mountains. Both felt, dare I say...snappy...from a dead stop.

    I too live in Western PA and agree that it probably felt snappy on the highways as pretty much anything built after MY2000 will. However, I would argue that it felt snappy if you tried starting off on one of our many very steep hills that have either stop signs or stop lights in the middle of them. Chevrolet is the #1 selling brand in the Pittsburgh area mostly, and this is IMO, due to the availability of a V6 in almost everything they sell. Lots of Impalas and Montes around here. I myself always opt for at least a V6 anymore after thoroughly struggling with a Civic and ZX2 on the hills for a few years. Not much choice in that class though. ;)

    I just got back from the OBX today and did notice an Optima or two (may have been the same one, both I4s) flying by on the PA turnpike. They looked perfectly at home at a high speed and I have no doubt they are perfectly adequate for most people. I am not one of them due to the area in which I live however.
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    Have an 07 Optima and an 05 Maxx. The Optima kicks from fifth all the way down to third on lots of grades. The Maxx gets slightly better mileage even with the four speed and 3.5 V-6. The Optima is considerably smoother, however. Hyunkia engines are notoriously tight and my suspicion is things will get better than 30 on the highway once things loosen up--5000 on my wife's car right now.

    If you can stand the high rpm's on grades the Optima does have adequate power. If I use the manual shift, it doesn't kick down and still seems to make grades-- the Ozarks aren't the Allegheny's however.
  • as someone else had mentioned an example is timing belt...replacement is maintenance on an Accord, but a repair on Ford's 2.0 Zetec engine in the Contour, etc.

    That's a fair point, but I'm willing to pay a certain amount for regular service that avoids future roadside situations. The avoidance of unanticipated disruptions is worth some extra money.

    I do have to wonder, though, to what extent the recommended maintenance periods are based on actual need vs. being a profit center for the dealerships' service areas. The 90K check was invoiced at 5 labor hours, cost ~$500, and the list of what they actually did isn't that long...lots of "inspect this, check that." Plus, it was out in less than 3 hours...did they really have multiple people working on it? I had it done to protect my extended warranty, but I'll be very tempted to cut back on the full packages once that's no longer an issue.

    What do you guys do for service: follow the recommendations or pick and choose? Do you handle older cars differently than newer ones?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,159
    Chevrolet is the #1 selling brand in the Pittsburgh area mostly, and this is IMO, due to the availability of a V6 in almost everything they sell. Lots of Impalas and Montes around here. I myself always opt for at least a V6 anymore after thoroughly struggling with a Civic and ZX2 on the hills for a few years.

    I live in Southern California which has mountains all over the place (a lot bigger than in Pittsburgh). The CITY of Los Angeles has numerous passes and hills. There are plenty of Civics, Corollas, and Mazda 3's here.

    I suspect the Pittsburgh story is more that it's in the traditional midwest rust belt and people just buy more American Cars. (Not slamming Pittsburgh, I've been there many times and it is a beautiful city in its hill and river setting.)
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