Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
What are some reasons why someone would not want to have ABS given the choice? The only thing I can think of would be cost, but after ABS has saved my butt countless times I think it is a small price to pay.
I wonder if Ford will raise the base price to cover the cost of the ABS option after they make it standard.
The Accord may not have a Sportshift but its got 4 forward gears not 2 like the Fusion. You're using your gears like a Sportshift grad. You can't do that in a Fusion. I use it often in my TL and would use it as often in any other car I owned. I like that feature and benefit from its availability.
What you meant to say, I believe, is that the Accord has four gearshift options while the Fusion only has two (Drive and Low). The V6 Fusion automatic actually has six (6) "gears/speeds."
I can count on my fingers and toes the number of times that I've ever used "2" and "L" in our other automatic transmission cars. I'd venture to say that 95 percent of the automatic drivers out there simply use "D" 95 percent of the time.
Manualmatics are more gimmick than anything else, but I'll concede that they do give the driver more options.
I can't see how the size or power numbers of the V6 options in the CamCords sell the cars... I understand that their I4s are superior... to those of the Fusion and Sonata and have no argument as to why people buy them in insane numbers. So why put the Fusion down for its V6 when in all reality it is selling better than the other V6 options? The odds are in favor of the Fusion at the stoplight going by the numbers. "
Good post. However, I don't think the Fusion 4 is as good of a V6 substitute as the Honda 4. There are many magazine and Edmunds articles with quotes about not needing the V6 in the Honda. I don't think that has been said about the Fusion 4, which is a good motor in the Focus/Mazda3 but has even been quoted as a little sluggish and raucous in the Fusion. It is my assertion that more people who test a Fusion 4 would desire to step up to the V6.
"I see the Fusion as a good compromise if you don't want an I4 and also don't want to pay the premium the models with the larger V6 options. The Fusion is never going to sell as well as the Camry or Accord without a better I4 but it's hard to argue that it doesn't offer a lot of value in it's current form. If things continue to pick up at Ford then you may see a more competitive Fusion in the future which would also entail another plant to mfr them which I don't believe could even be possible right now."
Agreed.
"Now that I think about it, putting a Grand Slam mid-sized sedan out there would have actually been a mistake for Ford at this point IMO. If the Fusion were a GS and since they could only build, say, half of what shoppers demanded in the Hermosillo plant, then the shoppers in this class wouldn't wait for one but rather go elsewhere because the other options are so strong too. I know that sounds crazy but if you think about it... "
If Ford had put a Grand Slam sedan out there in the first place, then they wouldn't have had to price it below the competition and give direct to consumer incentives. Perhaps dealers could have sold Fusions for close to MSRP for a while longer than they were able to. Also, it would have been great PR for Ford to have demand out-pace supply. Think 2005 Mustang, on a much larger scale!
That's a position every manufacturer would love to have, not just Ford.
I agree and tried to convey that, but maybe didn't do such a good job.
Perhaps dealers could have sold Fusions for close to MSRP for a while longer than they were. Also, it would have been great PR for Ford to have demand out-pace supply.
I think that would have been a problem for them though because they would have to turn people away and that's never good. If they can really make the car great, which is probably possible in the next year or two, and find the plant capacity to produce the numbers they'll need, think Taurus from '85 to the mid-90s, then we might see a Fusion that has what everyone hoped for in this iteration of the Fusion.
I think Ford knew their limits and played it safe. Look at the Mustang. It's first two year's sales were a surprise to Ford. But there was nothing like it offered by anyone else so they had it made. I can't see that happening in mid-size world.
Here we go once again.. How is the 6spd automatic old? or the VVT added to the Fusion 3.0 old? Its an improvement. Why is it ok for Honda not to have a 6spd? or autoshift? and not the Ford? Getting it now??
I need to point out, however, that those who continue to take the conversation off-topic and those who continue to argue with others are putting their posting privileges here at risk. We're just not going to have a repeat of the first version of this discussion.
I'm repeating myself to some of you, but please note that demanding certain behaviors of other members is just as disruptive and inappropriate as posting off-topic in the first place.
Thanks to those who ignored the disruptions and continued with the subject. THAT is the way to deal with people who are posting inappropriately. Of course an email to alert me to trouble is always appreciated.
Who goes around saying "I have manushift"?
I guess you can't tho.
I can't imagine having D or L or P or... :P
I can't imagine having D or L or P or...
I can't imagine having a D or P or L at all. The ones I like say 1,2,3,4,5,6 and R.
I don't have a very high regard for manu-matics, especially the ones that still use a torque converter, that is just silliness as far as I am concerned.
If you want to shift, get a stick, if you want to feel like a boy racer with a slushbox, have at it.
We're not exactly making fleet purchases.
I would like to think so. So far, so good. Six months and 3,200 miles later there has not been the first squeak, rattle or malfunction of any kind. About 95 percent of our driving is in-city and the gas mileage could be better but the revised EPA estimate for the V6 with AWD is only 17 mpg.
Aside from the mileage issue, everything else about the car is perfect. We are very satisfied with our purchase. Yes, I realize that there must be many satisfied Accord and Camry owners, too. I, for one, choose not to bad mouth anybody else's product. To each his own I say.
We've got a 10-year-old Ford Thunderbird with 85,000 miles on it and a 7-year-old Ford Focus station wagon with 92,000 miles on it. If the new Fusion holds up as well as those two vehicles have, we will continue to be very satisfied and continue to buy Ford products.
Our Fusion seems to be a rock solid car and one that we would, at this point, wholeheartedly recommend. The bold, distinctive styling is a bonus, icing on the cake.
As I said just a few minutes ago, those who will not stay on topic are going to have their posting privileges removed.
Some recent posts have been deleted.
If you want to shift, get a stick, if you want to feel like a boy racer with a slushbox, have at it.
I did try to like the manu-matics once and even tried one out. It didn't take long to decide that it wasn't for me. The one I tried was in an '04 Mazda6 V6 and it was entirely too controlling in that it shifted too early and didn't always like to shift when I wanted it too. All I wanted to do was get some engine braking going while going down a hill, a common practice in the snow around here if you have an MTX, and the goofy thing wouldn't let me!
Well, maybe the Altima is just so much fun to drive, the owners are all out driving!
I didn't mean keep it forever. Rather, it makes a tremendous commuter car.
For some reason they keep getting deleted. There were over a hundred, then they were gone. then somebody else did a review, and now its gone too.
If you take care of the car with some regular interior cleaning (i don't mean weekly or anything), it doesn't get "crusty."
See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
This is my Accord, when it was about 10 years old (last year) with 160k miles or so on it. My grandmother never took care of it (the carpet was stained, the switchgear covered in makeup, french fries under the seat). After one afternoon of work, I had a clean example of a 10 year old car. It looks like a car half its age, if you ask me. It's got one nasty scuff on the glovebox (visible as white in the picture). Other than that, it looks just fine and not at all "ancient and crusty." Just getting a little dated now.
Exactly. So you essentially have one. In my 02 Accord I was in D3 a lot for that slight braking and quicker pickup and 2 for the stop and go, bumper to bumper BS on the Atlanta Perimeter/GA 400 crawl without constantly riding the brake.
I can't imagine driving an auto without being able to use these features.
My weekend truck (06 Frontier) has a stick shift. It's OK for for that purpose. Not really 'fun' but not so bad. But again - everyday commuting with that? Na.
I think I tried the Mazda manumatic also, and just felt it wasn't anywhere near as responsive as a good manual transmission. All I remember about it though is that it didn't leave a very memorable impression...which probably means I didn't like it much.
I spent a few days with the Sonata, which had the manumatic, and I really did not like that one at all; downshifts took way too long. By the time it downshifted, I was into the corner already! Even when I got more used to the timing, it just seemed to take too long.
On the other hand, the Legacy, if I remember correctly - my drive in that was over a year ago, I thought was pretty good. But then again, that is a pretty powerful engine in the GT version so maybe my impression of the manumatic was colored by my infatuation with their powerplant.
I'm glad I tried them... but if you want control over the power of the engine, manuals are the way to go. Even with stop and go traffic, I don't mind. One thing about the 6 is that first gear is perfect for just puttering along, something that I can't say about my old accord (perhaps hondas have changed, but my 96 in traffic was more of a chore).
It is image, in the same way as saying "I have AWD" here in the south where it is pretty useless 99% of the time(especially the type in the Fusion and other typically front-drive only vehicles like Honda CR-V, etc...).
In hilly segments around my county (Jefferson County, AL for reference), being able to lock in third gear or lower is a very welcome setting in my car. AWD would be useless to me.
In flat Nebraska, D3 would be more useless and AWD more useful (more snow), a complete turnaround. These features each have their purpose, but the climate and topography often dictate their usefulness.
That post in itself was a very kind complement, thank you!
(I worked my butt off getting them clean!)
Too expensive for very little extra mpg
Ok
Honda is supposed to be working on a dedicated hybrid to compete directly with Prius. All I ask is that it not be ugly, like the Prius. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but......
The Prius is indeed one homely-looking vehicle, almost Aztek ugly, so strange that it is beautiful in its own way (the fabulous mileage makes it "pretty.") Every time I see one I know that the owner is laughing while he/she passes a gas station while I, on the other hand, cry.
After seeing that grad, I don't feel alone in the world anymore.
My wife drives coworkers around from time to time and they all comment on how clean I keep our vehicles. One went so far as to ask if we hire a professional cleaner or use a cleaning service! I'd imagine you would get the same reaction.
I'd really hate to see the interiors of her coworkers vehicles. :surprise: :surprise:
Knowing this I can't see how the size or power numbers of the V6 options in the CamCords sell the cars. I understand that their I4s are superior in pretty much every way to those of the Fusion and Sonata and have no argument as to why people buy them in insane numbers. So why put the Fusion down for its V6 when in all reality it is selling better than the other V6 options? The odds are in favor of the Fusion at the stoplight going by the numbers.
baggs32,
It's not the power of the V6 engines that sell I4 Camcords. What you have failed to mention is FUEL MILEAGE. The I4 Camcords sell so well because they have V6 power (or close to it) and get much better fuel mileage than a Fusion V6 does. While the V6 Fusion may win from the stoplight (by a small margin), it will also be the first to pull into the gas station (by a wide margin).
Of course, this leads the Fusion V6 owner to say "My V6 Fusion will leave your I4 Camcord in the dust". Which invariably leads Camcord owners to post Camcord V6 performance numbers. Not saying it makes sense, just saying that's the way it is.
I don't have a problem with anyone buying the car "They" want. We all have our "Own" reasons. Just don't tell me I wasted thousands of $$ because I bought a Camcord. I bought a V6 Accord because it's what "I" wanted. Telling me I bought the wrong car, is like telling the Pope he picked the wrong religion.
My issue arises when others assert the competitors offer the SAME attributes of an Accord for thousands less. Some come close to the total package, but close is just that. Close. These others are priced less cause if priced the same as an Accord they're sales numbers would be hammered.
I'm confident the 08 Accord will only add to its separation from the pack.
Yeah I maintain things to a very high level, I would be willing to drive across the country in that car (or anywhere else). I like to keep the inside pretty spotless and keep these little wipes in the car for spills and stuff. I have cheated and had the car detailed a couple of times, but if I am going to spend that much time in that environment, I want it to be clean.
After seeing that grad, I don't feel alone in the world anymore.
Haha, if you think YOU get funny looks, try being a college student, not even 20 years old, and keeping a car really clean inside. All but my closest friends probably think I'm obsessive compulsive.
I'll share a big secret though. I wear flip-flops pretty often (when I'm not going to work), and to drive, I go barefoot (sliding my shoes under the seat). I don't wanna go barefoot on nasty carpet!
I have never had my car "detailed," and in 12 years, I can say with confidence that I'm the only one who has EVER cleaned that car (my grandmother did nothing to it, I used to clean it up every year or so to make money as a younger kid).
This isn't reflected in the pictures, but I more recently used our upright Bissel Steam Carpet Cleaner on the floormats. You'd be amazed at the difference that made in how the car looked and even how it smelled (it didn't stink previously, but boy did it smell great after a carpet cleaning!). If you have one of these carpet cleaners, I recommend using it on your floormats if your car is more than a few years old. It'll really cut down on allergens and dirt in your car, even that that you cannot see.
patronizing statements like this are why some people think camcord owners are elitist. and if the accord was "the total package" why do they have to come out with another package in 08 LOL?
All of these competitors offer the same general features, at varying prices. The differences come in the presentation of all of it as a whole.
How does the interior design feel; upscale or sporty? Boring but solid?
How does the car drive; is it soft and buttery, sporty and rough, or somewhere in between?
How are all the features of the car integrated together; does it come together as a cohesive unit?
It is in these ways that the cars start to differentiate themselves, and it is basically personal preference. I found the Fusion to be too rough riding and the interior dated looking, the Sonata was numb/boring and had ergonomic quirks in the center stack that turned me off, and the Toyota was too soft and quiet, and not in the least bit engaging. They were all in the $20k-$24k range, all had between 155 and 166 horsepower, all offered automatics and 16" wheels, and adequate interior space. It is the subtleties that won me over in the Accord; it had the right balance of features, a balance that was worth over a thousand dollars in order not to "settle" for something that didn't exactly fit my wants and needs.
and if the accord was "the total package" why do they have to come out with another package in 08 LOL?
For the same reason that all car companies improve their cars; the bar is always being raised. The same reason people are speculating over the Fusion getting a 3.5L, the reason the Altima got a power bump, and the reason that the Malibu made a 240 hp engine (Malibu SS) optional. You've got to keep up with the competition!
I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old. You college students are squeaky clean compared to them! :P
I did say that in a round about way when I stated that the I4s of the Camry and Accord are superior to those in the Fusion and Sonata in nearly every way.
The Fusion seems to fill a gap that no one else covers. V6 power for not much more cash than the other I4 offerings. You do lose some efficiency, but again, it is a compromise. Obviously it's not a compromise everyone is willing to make but the Fusion does sell well so Ford got something right somewhere.
While the V6 Fusion may win from the stoplight (by a small margin)
I've already shown that the difference is more than most think. The numbers for the I4 Accord that have been posted around here, which are pretty close to the Fusion's V6 numbers, were for one with an MTX. The I4 and ATX Accord are a good bit slower, close to a second IIRC. We just had a discussion about why anyone would want an MTX in a sedan so I'm guessing, and the sales numbers back me up, that stoplight matches between a V6 Fusion and MTX equipped I4 Accord are few and far between too.
If the Fusion were available with an MTX then I'd expect to see mid to high 6 sec 0-60 times because that's what the Mazda6 accomplishes with an MTX and similar motor. Compare that to an MTX I4 Accord and the difference is around a full second again.
So this brings me back to my original statement that the Fusion V6 is a good compromise if you want V6 power but don't want to pay the premium for the extra power of the Accord and Camry. With the Fusion you can get a V6 for a touch more than the I4 of the others which can be appealing all other attributes aside.
In all honesty I'd only consider the Altima and Mazda6 in this category if I were in the market right now. They are the only two that offer an MTX with the V6, the performance I come to expect from such a drivetrain, and are visually appealing to me inside and out. I really don't like the Accord's or the Camry's outward appearance right now and the Fusion, said Camry, and Sonata don't offer an MTX with the V6 putting them all out of the running. Plus I did own a Mazda6 V6 previously and loved it making anything less too much of a compromise for me.
exactly - because the fact of the matter is that elroy5 very likely DIDN'T. Many autobuyers somehow confuse low initial price with 'value'. If an Accord costs 4 grand more up front but is still worth that same 4 grand more lets say 4 years later then than that more expensive car wasn't more expensive at all - except for the time value ($250-$350/year) of the extra money borrowed. Finance 101 and an easy concept to understand.
The facts are that those Camcords do have the highest resale values and generally lead the pack in terms of cost of operation. A good indicator of a car's true cost to own is lease rates, I would suspect it may be actually cheaper (or close to the same) to lease an Accord compared to a Sonata or Fusion. But don't tell anybody that wasted anything or paid too much for anything - it is simply not likely the case over those 3 to 5 years that most of us tend to keep a car.
and you are right, a Fusion/Sonata priced (and sold) like an Accord will likely never happen - simply because the carbuyer expects those cars to be cheaper and the main reason why those cars will be less valuable at trade-in time. There does seem to be about 3 Accord buyers to every 1 Fusion (or Sonata) buyer that seem to understand all this. So, therefore, this discussion really should be more about the relative merits of each car and less about silly price.
Huh? Patronizing? I stated the Accord (not 'camcord' - the Accord) was the best in its class. Period. Even as a 5 year old design vehicle.
Take it the way you want but many, many people have the same opinion as me. And the 2008 Accord will be even better. You can bank on Honda for that. They just have to watch their pricing. They can still get their 'premium'. The market will support it.
Sort of. I do lease vehicles most of the time and have found that the difference is not always there depending on where the vehicle is in it's yearly cycle. You can almost always get a really good lease deal on a vehicle at the beginning of it's MY run but certain vehicles, which do tend to have better resale like the Accord, still have decent lease rates at the end of the MY run.
And that is exactly the attitude that zzzoom6 was referring to.
Almost nobody buys a vehicle today based on objective criteria. Even if one vehicle has better mpg or is faster 0-60 or goes through the slalom or skidpad faster or is less expensive than another - most people don't base their purchase decision on those alone. It's a combination of very subjective things like interior/exterior styling, seat comfort, steering feel, power (how it feels as opposed to actual test figures), etc.
If a test showed that the Accord was slower 0-60, had lower residual values and the worst reliability ratings of all the cars in this class - would that change an Accord owner's opinion of their own vehicle? Of course not. By the same token you're not going to change anyone's opinion of their own vehicle by spouting test results and magazine ratings. And it has nothing to do with justifying a purchase decision and everything to do with subjective preferences that can't be measured on a test track.
Why can't we just note the objective differences between these vehicles without making judgements about which is better or worse?
of course it would, and of course it should and the results of these hypothetical statistics of yours might actually have Hondas dealers floating discounts like never seen before. That requirement that all of us have to make judgements about which is better or worse is largely a function of our egos!