My old Accord had never been driven in snow either, but the muffler had a hole in it, and the pipe going to the muffler also had a hole (where it goes over the suspension). That's why I decided to buy the factory muffler, it included the pipe going to the muffler, and was an easy bolt-on. They don't all last forever. The truck (96 chevy) I drive to work has dual exhaust too, and the exhaust is shot. It will have to be changed soon. I may just go with single this time. Maybe both are a result of short distance driving. The moisture stays in the exhaust pipe, and eventually rusts it out from the inside.
I doubt it would be easy. the 2008 model will undoubtly cost more, and those 1500-2000 dollar rebates everybody here says honda is offering will dissapear.
$2000 rebates have got to be helping prop the sales up a bit.
If all mufflers lasted that long, Midas (among others) would be out of business. I hear a lot of cars pass my house every day, and many of them need a new muffler.
Why? I just wanna show you guys a Japan version of Camry. They have better cars that the US does. It is relatively sporty, don't you think? I don't understand why the US version of Japanese cars are always worse except the engine size
Yes, short trips and the resultant moisture in the exhaust system, is what kills mufflers, cats, and all exhaust parts. It's also not very good on engines.
The factory muffler was $220 - ouch. I stopped buying exhaust parts, or systems, at the dealer a long time ago. I found a source of truly OEM parts - made by exactly the same vendor that supplies to Honda, etc. - but, at a fraction of the cost. I recently replaced my entire exhaust system from the exhaust manifold to the exhaust time, including the cat, for less than $300. Of course, I did the dirty work myself, and labor is a significant part of exhaust work.
well, mine has lasted that long, and it is the longest i've ever kept a muffler on a car. My inspection sticker expires this month, so I'll let you know if it passes. I'll also be watching my rear brakes. They're original too. I figured they'd need replacing last year, but they didn't.
But, the short distance thing may explain it. 80% of that cars miliage is to and from work. thats about 25 miles each way with hardly any lights or stop signs and little (if any) traffic. about 22 of those 25 miles are 60mph crusing.
Wow. Only 11,000 Sonatas sold in March!? Where are all the pundits from 6 months ago that were predicting the Sonata would sell huge and move way up this list?
What amazes me is the Accord can still sell 36,000 units with a wheezing design and style. Unbelievable market acceptance. When the 08 Accord debuts - watch out.
Wow. Only 11,000 Sonatas sold in March!? Where are all the pundits from 6 months ago that were predicting the Sonata would sell huge and move way up this list?
I was thinking the same thing. Where are they now? One car does not make a reputation, it seems.
What amazes me is the Accord can still sell 36,000 units with a wheezing design and style. Unbelievable market acceptance. When the 08 Accord debuts - watch out.
might have something to do with huge rebates you can get on them. If they can maintain their 17% or so increases selling at sticker..............then that will be something. and toyota might have to watch out.
and, I wouldn't call the design or style wheezing. I think the current sales may be a testament to how ahead of its time the last redesign was.
The cat, or any other part of the exhaust, was never changed in 12 years, and 140k miles. Only the parts farthest from the heat of the engine, where the moisture took longer to evaporate. The metal termites are having a feast on my Chevy truck exhaust, because I drive less than one mile to and from work twice a day. But I'm not exactly going to drive around town for 5 more miles (burning more gas), to save my exhaust.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I think the larger Accord 4 holds up better. I've owned 4 other 4 cylinder cars that held up better here than the Civics did. Three of them were Ford Escorts, the other was a German built Ford Fiesta.
I cannot find the post. Someone said the Honda Accord 5spd I4 was considerbly faster than the 5spd I4 Fusion? Car and Driver posts a 0-60 of 8.1 seconds for the Fusion I4 5spd. What is it for the Accord? The lowest I find is a 8.0 for a Honda Accord 5spd I4. Now really much difference?? :confuse:
I don't believe in sales numbers. Because McDonalds sells more burgers than Wendys does that make McDonalds a better burger? Nope. Case in point the Car and Driver shootout between Camry/Accord/Fusion. I hope Fusion/Milan sales stay down. I would much rather see Ford continue to build a quality car at a great value and maintain the quality.
172k miles grad. Wow! That exhaust has to have a hole in it somewhere.
Well, since short trips have a harmful effect on the muffler, the fact that the car ran 35 mile trips, twice a day, five days a week, for 6 years (and 115k miles of its life), probably has something to do with it. The car doesn't sound any different than it did when I got it. I can put the car running on youtube one day (after finals! i'm swamped with school right now!) so you can hear it. If it has any holes, they aren't affecting the "muffling" effect!
I don't believe in sales numbers. Because McDonalds sells more burgers than Wendys does that make McDonalds a better burger? Nope.
Nope, it just means it offers what people value most. Better is subjective. A better car for you was definitely not a better car for me, and vice versa.
Because McDonalds sells more burgers than Wendys does that make McDonalds a better burger? Nope.
Mcdonalds sells more burgers than Wendy's because they are CHEAPER. Can you guess why less Fusions are sold than Accords? They're not cheaper, so there must be another reason. Hint: BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER.
. I hope Fusion/Milan sales stay down.
You don't have to hope for it. It will happen anyway.
Case in point the Car and Driver shootout between Camry/Accord/Fusion.
Hahahaha, that's funny. Name a company who didn't win a comparison they paid for.
Case in point the Car and Driver shootout between Camry/Accord/Fusion.
In the magazine articles I've read (the real thing, not the commercials), the aging Accord beat out the Fusion. The Fusion scored well, but the Accord simply scored better (on things like interior finish, engine performance, engine NVH).
What is the point of this forum? Praise "Honda" and do bashing & mocking "Hyundai" same old same old. I think it is time to close again. People never learn from mistake. :mad:
thats because the accord is a better car than the fussion, period. The accord, however, is going to run you 3k+ more to buy. and that will probably increase quite a bit when the 2008 accords show up. And I doubt its ever going to change. Ford is just more concerned about their trucks than anything else. You never find outdated engines or technology in them. They're constantly investing time, money, and engineering skill on improving the F seris truck, and as a result, are by far the best truck you can buy.
But when it comes to cars, ford just isn't as concerned. At least not in north america. If it hadn't been for the run up in gas prices, and the resulting double digit decreases in truck/suv sales, ford would still be a comfortable #2 in the auto industry.
As has been mentioned, miles are not really much of a factor in exhaust system life. Time and short trips are the bigger factors, I would think the climate can have an effect too, as it takes longer to heat everything up in cold weather.
Are there differences in the quality of exhaust systems?
We had an '89 Voyager, the exhaust system was still good at the end of the vehicles life (12 years) and we do have winter here in WI. Kids have '95 and '96 Contours. The '95 had one pipe replaced and the '96 had the resonator replaced.
In contrast a '91 Nissan Sentra we used to have, needed a lot of exhaust system work done to it over time. Reminded me of the old days, when a new exhaust system every 3 years seemed typical.
I have assumed that by now, these midsize cars have all stainless exhaust. Is this a correct assumption...does anyone know od exceptions to that? Also are there perhaps differences in the quality of the stainless steel used?
Who was it? I cannot find the post. Someone said the Honda Accord 5spd I4 was considerbly faster than the 5spd I4 Fusion? Car and Driver posts a 0-60 of 8.1 seconds for the Fusion I4 5spd. What is it for the Accord? The lowest I find is a 8.0 for a Honda Accord 5spd I4. Now really much difference??
It was me. Someone pointed out that I mistakenly posted the time for an automatic Fusion 4-cyl, at 9.36 seconds according to Consumer Reports. Mainly I was going on my experience of actually test driving both cars.
Car and Driver just confirmed my feeling that a 4-cylinder manual Accord runs zero to sixty in 7.5 seconds, winning 6th place in what they call "The quickest cars of 2007: less than $20,000." That would put it 0.6 seconds faster than a similiar Fusion (which didn't make the top 10).
"If a pro athlete made it onto the all-star squad 21 times, you’d either call him Your Holiness or on steroids. In the last quarter-century, the Honda Accord has qualified for 10Best honors in all but four years, yet it’s never landed on that list by dint of force.
Instead, the Accord earns accolades for being relentlessly agile and fluid. It offers a cushy ride but never wallows. Its steering is light but insistently transmits little e-mails informing of road texture and available grip. The 166-horse i-VTEC four delivers right-now throttle response and squirts to its redline like a spaniel fetching a mallard. The clutch is nearly frictionless—no problem holding it through an entire red light. And the shifter is easy to read—slick and positive, such that you make heel-and-toe downshifts not because you have to but because Mr. Honda figured you might want to.
After sampling decades’ worth of Accords, we’ll just fall back on all the hackneyed descriptors: Solid. Dependable. An ergonomic all-star. Voted most likely to hold its value.
Of course, we weren’t contemplating resale values when an Accord prevailed in a recent comparo earlier this year. We were just thinking about what we’d most like to drive."
What is the point of this forum? Praise "Honda" and do bashing & mocking "Hyundai"
Merely pointing out that the Sonata doesn't sell like the Hyundai clubbers projected, and that the Accord still delivers huge sales, even with its dated design. Is that a bash? Its calling a spade a spade.
Sorry I like Hondas(as do thousands of others). There's a reason for my skew. I apologize.
I wonder how many people in this discussion (v1.0) beat up Hyundai for selling too many Sonatas to fleets, and now are beating them up because they have reduced sales to fleets in an attempt to raise transaction prices and improve resale values.
Keep in mind also that with Santa Fes selling briskly, around 8500 last month (more than a 100% increase over last year), Sonata production for the North American market (in the Alabama plant) is gated at about 25,000 per month less Santa Fe production. So that puts a limit of about 16,000 on Sonatas per month, less if Hyundai increases Santa Fe production to meet growing demand. The Sonata will not come close to outselling the likes of Accord, Camry, and Altima in the forseeable future; there simply aren't enough Sonatas available. Maybe Hyundai could ship some from the ROK if needed, but it appears they are working on increasing transaction prices and per-unit profit than on maxing out production.
If the Sonata is an inferior car because it sells "only" 11,000 per month in the U.S., I guess that makes low-volume cars like the Mazda6 and Legacy really bad!
Mcdonalds sells more burgers than Wendy's because they are CHEAPER. Can you guess why less Fusions are sold than Accords? They're not cheaper, so there must be another reason. Hint: BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER.
Sorry Elroy, but that's bad logic. I've been in many industries where the inferior and more expensive product outsold the better, less expensive product. Sometimes it's marketing, sometimes it's past experience/reputation (which has little to do with what's available now), and sometimes it's just name recognition. I'm not arguing that the Fusion is "better" than the Accord, or vice versa. But higher sales numbers do not equal "better."
I would also suggest that you are no more of an expert of what "better" is than I when it comes to cars for other people. Consumers are pretty funny, if you ask me. Often times consumers go into a store without doing any research or even knowing what characteristics are important to them. Sometimes consumers focus on one characteristic without conisdering other important ones. All this is just saying that just because someone buys something, it does not necessarily mean that what they bought was the "best" choice for them.
The process of buying a car is complicated and tiring which many people find very stressful. Under these conditions, it's no wonder why someone may buy something that is not ideal. If people were completely logical and clear thinking, there would be no need for salespeople...
Backy - this is the car that was supposed to fire a shot over the bow of the CamCordTima and make em shiver in their boots. Sure that Sonata's a good car, but 11,000 units?! How many units did the older design Sonata sell in a March?
What - defaulting to a Honda is somehow a BAD thing? Honda's reputation garners many sales. That reputation didn't just fall into their lap.
sorry, but did I say it was a bad thing? and where did you get in your mind that I didn't like Honda or that their reputation wasn't deserved? I'm just saying that higher sales #'s don't equal "better" and that "better" isn't so easy to define when there are many different characteristics that people value differently.
The Sonata was the car that, when introduced, bested the Camry in multiple comparos. (The Altima available at that time wasn't deemed worthy to even participate in those comparos.) More than a shot over the bow of Toyota and Nissan, I'd say. And they have responded with better designs in the past year. And you may have noticed that since the '06 Sonata was introduced, huge discounts with Honda-to-dealer incentives have been available on Accords. Coincidence? Or maybe some people have figured out that an Accord isn't worth $5000+ more than a Sonata, so Honda has had to adjust their market pricing to compensate.
As for how many Gen 3 Sonatas were sold in prior Marches, in 2005 11,373 were sold (best ever for the Sonata up to that time) due in large part to huge close-out incentives right before the new Sonata was released; in March 2004, 8,736 were sold; in March 2003, 7550 were sold, and in March 2002 (the first year for the refreshed Gen 3 Sonata) 5725 were sold. So 11,000 is on the high end for monthly sales for the Sonata--as high as the best sales month ever for the prior generation.
And you may have noticed that since the '06 Sonata was introduced, huge discounts with Honda-to-dealer incentives have been available on Accords. Coincidence?
Um, sorta. The Accord is now a five-year old design, and Honda typically offers some incentives just before a new design debuts.
I'm just saying that higher sales #'s don't equal "better"
I think, in this case, it does. Considering: The Accord costs more, yet sells more. I must not be the only one who thinks it's better. Why are they paying more for it, if they don't think it's better? Are we all being fooled, or brainwashed? This is only MY opinion, and you are entitled to your own. Camry buyers can say the Camry is better, because it sells more, at a higher price, and I don't have to agree with them. Opinions are like ***holes, everybody has one, and they all stink.
The 2006 Sonata was introduced to the U.S. two years ago, when the new-for-2003 Accord was mid-way through its third year. Does Honda typically offer huge discounts/incentives 2-1/2 years before a new design debuts? Not in my car-shopping experience they don't--not if they don't have to, anyway.
I don't think Toyota and Honda are afraid of the Sonata, as many have claimed they would be. The Altima seems much more a force to be reckoned with. The "Hyundai challenge" is not much of a challenge.
So do you suppose then that Honda put big incentives on the Accord out of the goodness of their hearts? What cars are forcing them to do that? The Camry, which has few incentives? The Altima--ditto? The Aura--ditto? Surely they don't fear the Malibu or G6--or do they...? Do you suppose it's possible the big incentives on the Accord are because too many buyers are snapping up Sonatas and its cousin the Optima, so Honda had to do something to narrow the price gap?
The fact that Honda has incentives on the Accord is no surprise given the fact that its five model years old. Also, they typically had incentives (not cash rebates) on the Accords towards the end of the model year, as did the previous version of the Camry, and the 2006 Sonata.
Its a fact that the dated Accord continues to be at or near the top of this segment. The 2008 Accord retail prices are not expected to rise that much. perhaps less than 3%, or a few hundred dollars and standard content will increase. I would not go out any buy one right away when they are introduced because you will not likely receive a large discount. Perhaps, wait until mid to late December of 2007 to get a pretty significant discount. This segment of the market is too competitive. I bet you that many of those competitor cars have rebates/dealer incentives/special leases and finance rates on them come that time. Also, you can get a 2007 Camry CE or LE 4 in my locale for a rather signifcant savings off of MSRP. Why? Although the vehicle is selling well - its nearing the end of the model year and the market is too crowded.
I think most people don't know about Hyundai. Many that do, just remember the negatives from the late '80's.
Probably over 90% of car buyers have never taken a close look at a Hyundai, never mind a test drive.
I wouldn't say there are being fooled or are brain washed but, perhaps, maybe foolish for not taking a close look at Hyundai (and other makes) to see what is available in the market now. Good luck with a brand helps build owner loyalty (heck, Hyundai often offers a loyalty rebate). Honda & Toyota have been building great cars for 20+/- years now. Hyundai started building great cars in '99 or 2000. It will take them a while to gain widespread acceptance. They are slowly attracting more attention and buyers.
Counting myself, I know three Hyundai drivers who, following conventional wisdom, wouldn't have looked at a Hyundai 3 years ago (actually one of them is picking up his new Azera Wednesday).
The competition has increased from the 1980's when Accords used to sell at a price higher than MSRP in CT. Whether manufacturer to dealer or manufacturer to consumer, Honda has felt a need to offer incentives.
And, as you said, they typically had incentives towards the end of the model year. Years ago they did not.
I think rebates to the consumer are better for the consumer as he is sure to get the rebate. Incentives to the dealer are not "always" 100% passed along to the consumer. If a manufacturer offers dealers a $1500 incentive but only $700 of the incentive reaches the consumer that could help the resale value, but the consumers would have been "shorted" $800 up front. Which would you rather have $800 today or $800 extra when you dispose of the car in a few years?
My god, the Accord is a good sedan but being the best or better than the Camry and Aura, I think not. Those beast's are more buzzy than a Yellow Jacket flying around your ear. :surprise:
I do believe the 08' Accord will be a good automobile. I however think the current Accord was passed up by the Camry, and the new Aura.
I suppose if I was a buyer in this segment I'd go Aura.
Do you suppose it's possible the big incentives on the Accord are because too many buyers are snapping up Sonatas and its cousin the Optima, so Honda had to do something to narrow the price gap?
Yes - agreed. For a while there Accord sales were way off.
Comments
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I could count on one hand the number of times it has been driven in snow, however, so salt/rust isn't a problem.
$2000 rebates have got to be helping prop the sales up a bit.
The factory muffler was $220 - ouch. I stopped buying exhaust parts, or systems, at the dealer a long time ago. I found a source of truly OEM parts - made by exactly the same vendor that supplies to Honda, etc. - but, at a fraction of the cost. I recently replaced my entire exhaust system from the exhaust manifold to the exhaust time, including the cat, for less than $300. Of course, I did the dirty work myself, and labor is a significant part of exhaust work.
But, the short distance thing may explain it. 80% of that cars miliage is to and from work. thats about 25 miles each way with hardly any lights or stop signs and little (if any) traffic. about 22 of those 25 miles are 60mph crusing.
Accord: 36,000
Altima: 27,000
Prius: 19,000
Fusion: 16,000
Malibu: 14,000
G6: 12,000
Sonata: 11,000
Wow. Only 11,000 Sonatas sold in March!? Where are all the pundits from 6 months ago that were predicting the Sonata would sell huge and move way up this list?
What amazes me is the Accord can still sell 36,000 units with a wheezing design and style. Unbelievable market acceptance. When the 08 Accord debuts - watch out.
I was thinking the same thing. Where are they now? One car does not make a reputation, it seems.
Hondas are the only cars I've been responsible for where I had to replace an exhaust system.
Its not a killer expense, its not going to make me love one brand and hate another, but its interesting.
might have something to do with huge rebates you can get on them. If they can maintain their 17% or so increases selling at sticker..............then that will be something. and toyota might have to watch out.
and, I wouldn't call the design or style wheezing. I think the current sales may be a testament to how ahead of its time the last redesign was.
Regards:
OldCEM
Case in point the Car and Driver shootout between Camry/Accord/Fusion. I hope Fusion/Milan sales stay down. I would much rather see Ford continue to build a quality car at a great value and maintain the quality.
Well, since short trips have a harmful effect on the muffler, the fact that the car ran 35 mile trips, twice a day, five days a week, for 6 years (and 115k miles of its life), probably has something to do with it. The car doesn't sound any different than it did when I got it. I can put the car running on youtube one day (after finals! i'm swamped with school right now!) so you can hear it. If it has any holes, they aren't affecting the "muffling" effect!
Nope, it just means it offers what people value most. Better is subjective. A better car for you was definitely not a better car for me, and vice versa.
Mcdonalds sells more burgers than Wendy's because they are CHEAPER. Can you guess why less Fusions are sold than Accords? They're not cheaper, so there must be another reason. Hint: BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER.
. I hope Fusion/Milan sales stay down.
You don't have to hope for it. It will happen anyway.
Case in point the Car and Driver shootout between Camry/Accord/Fusion.
Hahahaha, that's funny. Name a company who didn't win a comparison they paid for.
In the magazine articles I've read (the real thing, not the commercials), the aging Accord beat out the Fusion. The Fusion scored well, but the Accord simply scored better (on things like interior finish, engine performance, engine NVH).
Praise "Honda" and do bashing & mocking "Hyundai"
same old same old. I think it is time to close again.
People never learn from mistake. :mad:
But when it comes to cars, ford just isn't as concerned. At least not in north america. If it hadn't been for the run up in gas prices, and the resulting double digit decreases in truck/suv sales, ford would still be a comfortable #2 in the auto industry.
Are there differences in the quality of exhaust systems?
We had an '89 Voyager, the exhaust system was still good at the end of the vehicles life (12 years) and we do have winter here in WI. Kids have '95 and '96 Contours. The '95 had one pipe replaced and the '96 had the resonator replaced.
In contrast a '91 Nissan Sentra we used to have, needed a lot of exhaust system work done to it over time. Reminded me of the old days, when a new exhaust system every 3 years seemed typical.
I have assumed that by now, these midsize cars have all stainless exhaust. Is this a correct assumption...does anyone know od exceptions to that? Also are there perhaps differences in the quality of the stainless steel used?
It was me. Someone pointed out that I mistakenly posted the time for an automatic Fusion 4-cyl, at 9.36 seconds according to Consumer Reports. Mainly I was going on my experience of actually test driving both cars.
Car and Driver just confirmed my feeling that a 4-cylinder manual Accord runs zero to sixty in 7.5 seconds, winning 6th place in what they call "The quickest cars of 2007: less than $20,000." That would put it 0.6 seconds faster than a similiar Fusion (which didn't make the top 10).
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/12848/2007-honda-accord.html
"If a pro athlete made it onto the all-star squad 21 times, you’d either call him Your Holiness or on steroids. In the last quarter-century, the Honda Accord has qualified for 10Best honors in all but four years, yet it’s never landed on that list by dint of force.
Instead, the Accord earns accolades for being relentlessly agile and fluid. It offers a cushy ride but never wallows. Its steering is light but insistently transmits little e-mails informing of road texture and available grip. The 166-horse i-VTEC four delivers right-now throttle response and squirts to its redline like a spaniel fetching a mallard. The clutch is nearly frictionless—no problem holding it through an entire red light. And the shifter is easy to read—slick and positive, such that you make heel-and-toe downshifts not because you have to but because Mr. Honda figured you might want to.
After sampling decades’ worth of Accords, we’ll just fall back on all the hackneyed descriptors: Solid. Dependable. An ergonomic all-star. Voted most likely to hold its value.
Of course, we weren’t contemplating resale values when an Accord prevailed in a recent comparo earlier this year. We were just thinking about what we’d most like to drive."
Praise "Honda" and do bashing & mocking "Hyundai"
Merely pointing out that the Sonata doesn't sell like the Hyundai clubbers projected, and that the Accord still delivers huge sales, even with its dated design. Is that a bash? Its calling a spade a spade.
Sorry I like Hondas(as do thousands of others). There's a reason for my skew. I apologize.
Keep in mind also that with Santa Fes selling briskly, around 8500 last month (more than a 100% increase over last year), Sonata production for the North American market (in the Alabama plant) is gated at about 25,000 per month less Santa Fe production. So that puts a limit of about 16,000 on Sonatas per month, less if Hyundai increases Santa Fe production to meet growing demand. The Sonata will not come close to outselling the likes of Accord, Camry, and Altima in the forseeable future; there simply aren't enough Sonatas available. Maybe Hyundai could ship some from the ROK if needed, but it appears they are working on increasing transaction prices and per-unit profit than on maxing out production.
If the Sonata is an inferior car because it sells "only" 11,000 per month in the U.S., I guess that makes low-volume cars like the Mazda6 and Legacy really bad!
Sorry Elroy, but that's bad logic. I've been in many industries where the inferior and more expensive product outsold the better, less expensive product. Sometimes it's marketing, sometimes it's past experience/reputation (which has little to do with what's available now), and sometimes it's just name recognition. I'm not arguing that the Fusion is "better" than the Accord, or vice versa. But higher sales numbers do not equal "better."
I would also suggest that you are no more of an expert of what "better" is than I when it comes to cars for other people. Consumers are pretty funny, if you ask me. Often times consumers go into a store without doing any research or even knowing what characteristics are important to them. Sometimes consumers focus on one characteristic without conisdering other important ones. All this is just saying that just because someone buys something, it does not necessarily mean that what they bought was the "best" choice for them.
The process of buying a car is complicated and tiring which many people find very stressful. Under these conditions, it's no wonder why someone may buy something that is not ideal. If people were completely logical and clear thinking, there would be no need for salespeople...
Its goes both ways. Some buy Ford because its the only dealer in their little town.
What - defaulting to a Honda is somehow a BAD thing? Honda's reputation garners many sales. That reputation didn't just fall into their lap.
sorry, but did I say it was a bad thing? and where did you get in your mind that I didn't like Honda or that their reputation wasn't deserved? I'm just saying that higher sales #'s don't equal "better" and that "better" isn't so easy to define when there are many different characteristics that people value differently.
As for how many Gen 3 Sonatas were sold in prior Marches, in 2005 11,373 were sold (best ever for the Sonata up to that time) due in large part to huge close-out incentives right before the new Sonata was released; in March 2004, 8,736 were sold; in March 2003, 7550 were sold, and in March 2002 (the first year for the refreshed Gen 3 Sonata) 5725 were sold. So 11,000 is on the high end for monthly sales for the Sonata--as high as the best sales month ever for the prior generation.
Um, sorta. The Accord is now a five-year old design, and Honda typically offers some incentives just before a new design debuts.
I think, in this case, it does. Considering: The Accord costs more, yet sells more. I must not be the only one who thinks it's better. Why are they paying more for it, if they don't think it's better? Are we all being fooled, or brainwashed? This is only MY opinion, and you are entitled to your own. Camry buyers can say the Camry is better, because it sells more, at a higher price, and I don't have to agree with them. Opinions are like ***holes, everybody has one, and they all stink.
Perhaps because the design, while being five years old, is something people don't want, because it will make their car "the old model" soon.
Its a fact that the dated Accord continues to be at or near the top of this segment. The 2008 Accord retail prices are not expected to rise that much. perhaps less than 3%, or a few hundred dollars and standard content will increase. I would not go out any buy one right away when they are introduced because you will not likely receive a large discount. Perhaps, wait until mid to late December of 2007 to get a pretty significant discount. This segment of the market is too competitive. I bet you that many of those competitor cars have rebates/dealer incentives/special leases and finance rates on them come that time. Also, you can get a 2007 Camry CE or LE 4 in my locale for a rather signifcant savings off of MSRP. Why? Although the vehicle is selling well - its nearing the end of the model year and the market is too crowded.
Because the 5 year "old" Accord is competing with a "new" Camry and a "new" Altima. The rest are inconsequential (don't matter much).
Probably over 90% of car buyers have never taken a close look at a Hyundai, never mind a test drive.
I wouldn't say there are being fooled or are brain washed but, perhaps, maybe foolish for not taking a close look at Hyundai (and other makes) to see what is available in the market now. Good luck with a brand helps build owner loyalty (heck, Hyundai often offers a loyalty rebate). Honda & Toyota have been building great cars for 20+/- years now. Hyundai started building great cars in '99 or 2000. It will take them a while to gain widespread acceptance. They are slowly attracting more attention and buyers.
Counting myself, I know three Hyundai drivers who, following conventional wisdom, wouldn't have looked at a Hyundai 3 years ago (actually one of them is picking up his new Azera Wednesday).
And, as you said, they typically had incentives towards the end of the model year. Years ago they did not.
I think rebates to the consumer are better for the consumer as he is sure to get the rebate. Incentives to the dealer are not "always" 100% passed along to the consumer.
I do believe the 08' Accord will be a good automobile. I however think the current Accord was passed up by the Camry, and the new Aura.
I suppose if I was a buyer in this segment I'd go Aura.
Rocky
Yes - agreed. For a while there Accord sales were way off.