Still an amateur-- what is an MG?

coffeecustard

Hey everybody. I'm a translator and I suck at car models and makes and stuff... I own a blue VW Bug; that's the only car I ever fell in love with. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what "MG" means. This lady's talking about her first car, saying it was a "convertible roadster MG thing". I tried Googling it and I can tell it's so common I will look like an idiot but well I thought I'd ask here.

Will really appreciate any help on this. Thanks a lot.

Mr_Shiftright

It stands for Morris Garage.

fintail

British car, sold in NA til 1980, rusts at the sight of moisture, has wiring but none of it works, has metal with a propensity for oxidization, Brits drink warm beer because Lucas makes refrigerators, the cars tend to become perforated.

Mr_Shiftright

Don't listen to that Teutono-phile. :P MGs are GREAT cars with tons of personality and good looks...but you need to know the best years....anything from the 1930s to 1974....after that you can just forget them.

Most famous MGs you might have heard of are the TC (the old-fashioned one with the huge wire wheels that introduced the "sports car" to America)1947-49, the MGA, the sleek, low sports car from the late 50s to mid 60s, and the best of them all, the MGB from 1965 up to 1974--still a bargain in a classic sports car and a pleasure to drive.

coffeecustard

Wow. Thanks a million everybody. U're all so well-versed in this... Can I ask something else? What is a "road car"?

coffeecustard

And what's a roadster?

texases

My best (well, only) MG story...family friend restores an MGB in the garage, sandblasts it down to bare metal, primes, paints it, puts down garage door, drops a pound of sand off of garage door onto new wet paint

andre1969

didn't they give you an MG with the purchase of a bigger car like a Caddy, Imperial, Buick, etc? I think you were supposed to use them as a wheel chock, for parking on steep inclines.

Oh wait, maybe that was the TR-7? :P

andre1969

And what's a roadster?

I'm sure the terminology has evolved over the years, but I think in the strictest sense of the term, a roadster is a 2-seat open car with a manually operated top, and side curtains in lieu of roll-up windows.

As for a "road car", I would take that term to mean a big, comfy car that would make a good long-distance vacation/road-trip type of car. But I'm sure it actually means something else.

fintail

Yes, the wedge shape also makes a TR7 handy as a doorstop. And as it has almost no value as a car, might as well use it for something :P

fintail

Oh, I like TCs...well, I like to look at them. I suspect I wouldn't like driving them, probably not built for people of any height or size. And they don't rust, as they are made of wood, right? :P

I wanted a Midget when I was a little kid...but because it was so small, I thought I could drive it.

Mr_Shiftright

TCs are fun to drive but you're right, not meant for anyone over 5' 8" or so. I can drive one but it's a really tight fit in the legs. Also you have to get used to shifting with your left hand. But they're a hoot to drive....it feels like you are going 200 mph when you're doing 55. They handle very well for their age and they are "peppy" if healthy and well-tuned. It's more like driving a motorcycle than a car.

MGs were always a higher quality car than a Triumph, and Triumphs were always a touch faster.

In their infinite wisdom, BL decided one day to kill MG and put all their money into the TR7. Don't take drugs and run a major automotive manufacturing plant.

au1994

thats funny as I had the same thought about the Nash Metropolitan. In my 5 or 6 year old mind, the fact that the car was so small meant that it would be ok for me to drive it.

texases

Would there be any interest in the TR-8? Especially the convertible?

douglasr

MG: Morris Garages Ltd; founded Oxford 1924; renamed MG Car Co. Ltd, relocated to Abingdon, Berskshire England 1929. Founded by Cecil Kimber, and William Morris. The first car was a 1.8 Litre Oxford model developed begining in 1922. A short list of models is as follows:

14/28 MG Oxford 1922-1927
14/40 MG Oxford 1927-1930
18/80 MG Oxford 1930-1932(?)
Mark II 18/80 1931-1939(?)
MG Minor 1928, also known as Morris Minor
M Type Midget, 1929
18/100 MG Tigresse, built for Brooklands Double 12
MG C Type 1931-, won Irish Grand Prix, 1931 Double 12, Ulster Tourist Trophy
MG J Type; MG J2, J3, J4, 1932-(?)
MG P Type, successor to J; 1934-35
MG PB Type; 939 cc engine
MG Q Type, Supercharged, 750 cc engine
MG R Type; 847cc engine
MG F Type; based on 1930 Wolsey Hornet, 1,271cc engine
MG Magna; 1,271 cc engine, sports body
MG K3 Magnette, Supercharged Magna, won 1933 Mllle Miglia
MG Magnette NE, 1,287cc NE type variation of K3
MG Magnette, K-N Series. 1934-36
MG TA, 1,290cc engine, first of the "classic MG's" from which the post-war (1945) cars are based.
MG TB; 1.5 Litre
MG VA, SA, WA Series 2 Litre cars 1936-1940, rusts on sight.
MG TC, 1937-1949, the car that started exports to America in real numbers, often bought by American servicemen returnng home
MG TD, 1949-1953 1.5 Litre
MG TF, 1953-1957-58, these cars still had ash frames
MGA, 1957-1968, competition for Standard Triumph, with a fully enveloped bodyshell.
MGA 1600; 1.6 Litre
MG Magnette IV, 1.6 litre saloon
MG Midget, we all know this one, the first mini MG with modern styling.
MGB, 1962-1980; the classic modern MG sports roadster.
(survival of this basic model continued in one form or another by independent refrubishers, or limited manufacture until purchased by BMW Group in the 1990's.)
MGB GT, coupe varient of the B, also built with V8 motor in limited numbers.
MGC, 1968; Six cylinder Healey engined MG. Prince Charles (Windsor, future King of England) was allowed to own one when he was 16.

MG Ltd had been absorbed by BMC which became British Leyland; the firm was shut down two weeks after its corporate anniversary party in Abingdon; the last car rolling off the line October 22, 1980, just three years after having sold more than 25,000 cars in America in 1977. British Executive Stupidity killed MG, while Triumph survived, briefly with the TR7/8. Revived numerous times by various bankers, investors, and would-be auto tycoons. Tooling for MGB now owned by British Heritage Trust. The Chinese bought the firm from Rover Group (Ex BMW) and moved the Longbridge Plant at Abingdon, lock stock and wing-nut to China. Production of new MG cars started this last March, with plans for production in the U.S.

The first car I ever drove when I was 9 years old was a dark blue right hand drive MG TF, I steered and changed gears, sitting on my friend's lap, while he engaged the gas, brakes, and clutch.... We did not break down that day, but every time thereafter, no trip was complete without the smell of burning wiring. They are thrilling and sporting open air cars to drive, where 60 mph feels like 100. No driving education is complete until you have driven an MG, rendering the full British Driving Experience. You don't leave home without a full set of tools, duct-tape, and time to stop for a warm glass of beer. I've driven all the major post-war MG's, from TC's to B's; my last trip from Washington D.C. to Boston non-stop without breaking down (?!?!)...but I did get rained on as I could not stop to "raise" the top. At the end of the day, if you can't catch a date while driving one, you are indeed, as Churchill used to say: ugly.

DouglasR.

Source: Encyclopedia of Automobiles, G. N. Gerogano, Ep Dutton, 1975

P.S. Standard Triumph TR2-3-4A were better cars than MG's in many instances, but not all.
P.S.S. Prince Charles was not driving an MG when he me Camilla Parker Bowles.

fintail

I also thought the little VW Caddy/pickups were something I could drive.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes there is definitely some collector interest in the TR8, presuming the price is realistic enough to reflect the limited demand. It's certainly more appealing than a TR-7 or a Stag.

lokki

What is an MG-TC worth now days?

MG-TC


MG-B



Sorry - The unlamented TR - 7



The REAL Triumph The TR 6

Mr_Shiftright

more than a TR-7?

lokki

Now, now......

lokki

Well.... now that I've thought about it.... you're right!

1981 Triumph TR7 Snapshot
Retail Value: N/A
Bodystyle: 2-Dr Convertible
Engine: 2.0L L4
Transmission: 5 Speed Manual
Drivetrains: Rear Wheel Drive

At Best

I am selling a 76 TR7 coupe and an 80 TR7 Convertible.

The TR7 coupe runs well, and actually will move under its own power, but does need restoration. Both cars need to go.

$450 takes all.

toomanyfumes

How about the Triumph Spitfire. My brother used to have one. Do they have any value? I always liked his, he finally let me drive it-it handled well, but the acceleration was dissapointing.

Mr_Shiftright

I like Spitfires, especially the earlier ones with the chrome bumpers....like all British cars, the closer you get to 1975, the less you want one.

They have some value but not much...certainly a lot of fun for not much money, and simple enough to work on. It's a flimsy crate, not solid like an MGB....but I'd buy one if the price was right and it wasn't the incredible rat that 95% of them are. :P

saabgirl

... though it had some quirks.

The windows were plexiglas sheets mounted in frames -- i.e., each window had two sheets of plastic that slid horizontally to open. Or you could just take the whole frame out and keep in the trunk. Worst problem was the plexiglas scratched, obstructing visibility and it was hard to recut new sheets.

Didn't like starting in cold, wet weather, so, when I got up, I had to go out to the garage, remove the spark plug harness and put it in the oven while I got dressed.

It was too low for snow duty, but I tried. When it got stuck, I'd pull the choke a bit, get out, push, then trot after it and jump in. Once it buried its nose in a snow drift, so I tried this trick in reverse. I ended up with one leg in the car, my butt on the sill and my left leg under the door which was pushing my knee backwards. By the time I got the clutch in my knee was no longer in shape for skiing, according to the X-rays.

It was fun to drive on the twisties with my head over the side watching the wheels flex the spokes.

Since it had no radio, my MGA formed my general dislike for radios, other than weather bands, in cars. Besides, it didn't need a steenkin radio because, after the muffler rusted off, I put a straight pipe on it. Once I was coming home and downshifting from about 60 just to listen to the sound. The police were hiding there and pulled me over. My story was that I'd ordered a muffler and was waiting for it to be delivered. "Oh, yeah," sez the cop, "which garage?" I named the garage that usually got my business. Fortunately, they were listing to the police scanner and were prepared when the call came to verify

The problem with peak moments is that you often don't know when you're having one.

Sigh.

douglasr

MG began the flood-tide of imports to this country after 1945, with Britain capturing the majority of them by the mid 1950's until VW reached its peak, and then surpassed by the Asian manufacturers.

...let us not forget those other great British Sports cars of the same ilk: Triump Spitfires, and little loved and ill fated Stag; the tempermental Triumph TR-7 and TR8; The red blooded Austin-Healey 100, Mark II, Mark III, and 3000; and the very rare but very exciting to drive HRG 1500 which never saw the light of day in left-hand drive. And who can not forget the A.C. Ace, that Carol Shelby turned into a Cobra.... Followed by Sunbeam turning the Alpine into the Tiger.

...The U.S. Government regs basically killed all the fun out of those cars by the mid 1970s, even though the "Rubber Bumper" MBG still remains popular. Chances are, if it is a British sports car and it still has chrome bumpers, its worth buying. You can get a perfect TR3-4A for $12,000, drive for nickels on the dollar, and have a blast, and the same holds for a good MGA or B.

Those same regs also killed the still-born Rolls-Royce powered Austin Healey Mark VI "4000" that was built in 1968 and never saw production. Ohh what a car that would have been to have...with its wide bodyshell and 4.5 litre engine that pulled the car with tons of torque up to 130Mph!

...so go to your nearest British Car Day to touch, feel, smell, and enjoy the sights and sounds of a motoring experience that has all but been sanitized and washed away with a few exceptions, (Honda Roadster, Miata, and the rare Toyota 2000, and the old Datsun GT's) by hordes of boring little mediocraties on wheels....

I spent my youth driving those cars: pushing and riding in them, driving and caring for them, but what fun and adventure!!! Few new cars bring that back today; that's why the car companies are in so much trouble. They need to bring back those "peak moments", as is so well stated, to survive. So if you have not done so, go find someone with an MG, Triumph, Austin Healey or Sunbeam and find out what the meaning of a "peak moment" really is....

DouglasR

Mr_Shiftright

MG enthusiasts in America are among the most faithful to the marque, and real "drivers"---no spoke polishers in that club.

An MG TC for instance, will always find a savior, even if it is at the bottom of a lake, is not worth restoring, is a completely stupid hopeless project, is in 5,000 pieces or melted inside a volcano. It will be rescued and put back on the road by an MG lover, no doubt about it.

There are few cars the elicit this level of affection or dedication.

As it should be. The MG TC is really the father of all sports cars as we know them today. It's the car that "started it all" in America.

fezo

When I was a little kid my uncle had a 51 MG TD. I loved riding in that thing.

Later on a friend had in a band I was in had a 68 MGB. It's funny to think of now as I'm the first to have everyone with their seat belt on and such that back then I was know to ride on the back shelf in that MG when there were three of us in the car!

Mr_Shiftright

The TD doesn't look as nice as a TC but it has a better suspension and steeering.

fezo

Yeah, the TC was a beautiful little thing. The TD was nothing to sneeze at. I was in nursery school at the time.....

Way later, but still long ago, my cousin from the other side of the family did a restoration on an old TD. His son has it now. Bob did a great job and Rob appreciates what he has!

Mr_Shiftright

The TD is more popular (although not more valuable) because you can get left hand steering and also they ride so much better. A TC can really beat you up after an hour or two and they only made them in right hand drive.

Actually my favorite is the TF (of that style). My favorite MG is the MGB, late 60s, roadster with overdrive thank you please, in british racing green with wooden steering wheel and snap-on hardtop.

fezo

The late 60s MG. Great, fun car. Not along ago you could pick them up in the regular newspaper classifieds.

bocatrip

The TR7 was absolute trash. The TR8 although realtively rare was and still is not worth all that much. It had a nice smooth V8 but was not incredibly fast. 1980 was the last year for the TR8. The year to own for the MGB is 73, which is the last of the chrome bumpers. There were actually 2 different bumpers for 74. The chrome bumper with hideous huge "rubber bumper overriders" and the full plastic bumper. The car was raised, fitted with a single carburetor instead of the dual sidedrafts (emission restrictions) and pretty much ruined. Although they made a zillion of these Bs, a rust free healthy clean car from 73 and earlier will fetch good money. The 73 is probably one of the strongest in value. The MGC was built in 68 and 69 to try and replace the Healey. It had very poor reviews especially for understeer for being front heavy. This was actually exaggerated, but the car was doomed from the start. The only way to distinguish the MGC from the B was a bulge on the hood to accomodate the aircleaners. It had 150 HP and was actually a real smooth engine. These cars can be found with an automatic as well. I especially enjoyed the GT Coupe as it was a relatively solid little car. Many MG parts can be easily found and again rust is the thing to look for. They rusted almost from the beginning.

starrow68

Got my MGB, Orange with OD, from the depot west of London in
May 1972 after discharge from the USAF. Ordered it from a
catalog of cars for pickup in Europe and put 10,000 miles on
it in just over 3 months before shipping it back to the SF
Bay Area. Drove it until 1984, one trip to Colorado, many
trips to LA and Vegas and daily commuter after getting out
of Grad School in '75. Only two issues I ever had with the
electrics was that the odometer quit at about 20k miles and
I never fixed it, knew about what speed from the tach. Then
this wire would fall off under the car below the driver
seat and I kept a tarp behind the seat, coast to the side
of the road, drop the tarp, lay down and reach under to
give it a squeeze and slide it back on the connector, never
even knew what it was. Best car I owned up to my current
Vette.
Randy

Mr_Shiftright

I drove my MGB all over the USA. It was a fun reliable car. Can't recall that it ever broke down...but I do remember staggering back to the airfield all shot up a couple of times.

To me, a good British car or motorcycle is one that "always gets you home".

An MG can do that, but a TR7? Bring a five day's supply of food and water!!

ODOMETER: I think there is a little right-angle gearset in there that always breaks.

fezo

I was poking around looking at cars that would be fun to have as an extra fun car. I'd been looking mostly at Miatas but there have now been a couple of "close but no cigar" MGBs coming by. Just needed more work than I'm ready to give.

I might still end up in the Miata (an MG for people that don't want to do repairs...) but seeing these old MGs is pulling at an old famiar heartstring....

bocatrip

The Miata will certainly not give you much grief. If an MG is what you want, just stay away from 1975-80 as they are underpowered, more problematic and certainly not as valuable.

Mr_Shiftright

Good advice. I like '68--73s the best. And NO Weber carburetors. The original SUs are great if they are in good condition. Webers will suck gas like crazy and are way too much carb for that engine.

There's a great aftermarket for MGBs...more parts and vendors than practically any other classic car except maybe VW and Model A. You can even order up an entire new metal body! Any part you want, UPS two days.

british_rover

There must have been a MG, probably some kind of general british speciality place, parts warehouse near my old UPS hub because we got all kinds of odd ball parts in. They were hub loads though so they probably came from one state over.

Mr_Shiftright

There's a lot of them. I'm not aware of any part you can't get for an MGB---maybe some rare trim piece on a GT or something....

burdawg

Well, I have to differ. The Weber DGVS is a tried and true replacement for the dual SU's on the earlier cars (different intake manifold of course), and works well on later cars although the entire modular intake/exhaust manifold has to be replaced with the earlier style (or a header). It's a very popular mod and very little effect on mileage if jetted right. Not smog legal in may places of course.
Sidedraft Webers, even though I have seen them on stock engines, are better left to highly modified cars with ported or crossflow heads.
You can go fuel injection now (on the later cars) with the mod kit from Moss Motors (smog legal!). And of course if you really like to punish your wallet, there's the supercharger kits.
I have to agree that looks wise the chrome bumper cars are better. The later cars have refinements that are hard to beat though, like power assisted brakes. You can always do a chrome bumper conversion and put in a lowering kit to get the look of the earlier cars.

bocatrip

I remember the 69 MGC I had for a few months a zillion years ago. It was planned as a replacement for the Austin Healey MKlll that ceased production partially do to stringent emission regulations.The MGC also failed do to poor reviews and direct competition with the TR6 under British Leyland. It had the smoothest engine I can remember for a British car. It was nose heavy as the initial reviews of this car's intro stated, but it wasn't that bad. The engine had alot of torque. No one will know that it's a MGC other than the bulge on the front of the hood to accomodate the radiator and further back for the air cleaner assembly. I still think this car is undervalued, but it is extremely hard to find a real one. As with the MGB or any old car needing restoration..........it's better to find one that someone sweated over and spent all their savings on to bring to pristine condition. It's never worth the effort to restore. You will inevitably lose money and probably your interest in it as well.

Mr_Shiftright

I've seen dyno testing with a Weber on a stock MGB dawg...you only get about 3 HP and way less gas mileage. Webers are fussy and expensive, SUs are simple and bulletproof.

Just don't see the point of this conversion unless you are tracking the MGB and have a very hairy motor in there that could a) use all the fuel Webers dump in and b) fuel mileage is not an issue and c) you have all day to tune it.

Otherwise, big waste of $$$ in my opinion on a stock B.

RE: MGC -- not easy to "fake" one since the front end/suspension are very different than an MGB. It's not just a B with a 6 cylinder stuffed in...which is why they are harder to restore....not many parts available and many parts are unique to the C.

burdawg

Are you referring to sidedraft or downdraft Weber conversions?
The downdraft conversion on my 77 (DGAS, mechanical secondary as opposed to vacuum)is 100x easier to maintain than the SU's ever were and I won't even talk about the original single Zenith/Stromberg that was on it.
Who worries about fuel mileage on an MG today anyway? It's not like very many use them as daily drivers now (unless they like daily punishment!).

Mr_Shiftright

Oh yeah, I could see putting a Weber on a '77, definitely a good idea to throw that Stromberg over a fence. Good move.

People never understood SUs very much and I don't blame them because information was hard to get. But once SUs become familiar to a person, there is no simpler, easier, more trouble-free carburetor in the world IMO.

The problem with Webers is that they are narrowly engineered. If you get them to idle well, then they starve at high speeds. So you get them to run great at full throttle, and they bog at mid range. So you dial in mid range, and they won't idle worth a damn.

If you want overall great behavior throughout your rev range, you can't beat rebuilt SUs for your vintage MG, in my opinion.....and you'll get double...yes DOUBLE the gas mileage from a pair of "FAT" Webers.

Webers always run fat, that's what they're built to do, and why they are so good on the track.

mako1a

Great hearing all this MG stuff. I always knew MGs were better than Triumphs. I had a 57 and 58 MGA. One would pass inspection but ran lousy and one wouldn't. I used to get the one inspected and switch windshields every inspection. Had no $$ and had to fix all myself. Electric fuel pump repair...sandpaper contacts, good as new. Wonderful fun cars. Bought for $200 in 1966 and sold for $200 in 1968. Now fetch $7500 and up. ps Body was made of some non rusting metal on hood (bonnet) trunk lid (boot), doors, rockers. Also SU semidowndraft carbs were great. Just twist off the brass top fitting and 3 drops of 3-in-1 oil every couple months and good as new. Remember positive earth? That got a lot of people. Good memories. Thanks, Dave

Mr_Shiftright

Yes the Brits used to explain to us, quite solemnly, that they thought electrons flowed better neg to pos. I never quite got the theory.

0patience

In the late 70s, we had this fella that had three 66 MGB Roadsters and at least every other month, one of them would be in for electrical problems.
Most often, because he was trying to install some negative grounded accessory in it.
One memory that comes to mind was when he wanted to install a "new fangled" cassette player in it.
Since at that time, there were no positive grounded cassette players, we had to insulate the housing and run the ground wire to the battery and the positive wire to the chassis.

Another time, he cooked the electrical system, because he took one to a body shop and they decided to do some TIG welding on the vehicle. They didn't disconnect the batteries and it took out the regulator and every bulb in the vehicle.

I don't miss those days at all.
One of those 66's sits at my step brother's right now.

texases

When did MG go to negative ground?

0patience

Boy, gonna test my memory on that one.
I'm thinking 68 or 69, but I could be wrong on that.
Had to be close to that though.

texases

All this MG talk has got me thinking, and I was wanting to narrow down my options...so, say, '70-'71 would be good years if I wanted to minimize the odd stuff and the bumpers/pollution controls, etc?

Mr_Shiftright

It would be good to avoid the models with the air injection pump but that can be fixed with little plugs in the head.