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Paint and Body Care
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I have a '92 VW Jetta that I plan on selling next year. It has quite a few chips and acid rain spots which were removed but still visible. Everything else on the car is perfect. Since I just poured a ton on money into the engine, I want to ask top dollar.
Would it be worth it to get a cheap paint job (Maaco kind) or would that actually reduce the value of the car? I've ruled out putting any kind of substantial money into the car so a quality job is out of the question.
Thanks for the input.
At the time, I didn't have much money for a "good" paint job so I too it to a similar place (as Maaco) called Earl Schieb. They did very little prep. Only thing they did was tape off the chrome, grill, headlights/tailights and windows. After they finished, (about an hour) I had overspray everywhere (door jambs, under the hood, in the trunk, wheel wells, etc). It looked OK from a distance, but if you got up close, opened the doors, trunk or under the hood, it was pretty ugly with the overspray. To make matters worse, I had it painted a different color from the original color. It looked like exactly what it was...a cheap paint job. In addition, everyone asked me it was in a wreck (it wasn't). Did it look better? I think that I traded one set of problems for another set of problems. It certainly didn't help me get "top dollar" when I sold it.
At the time, the painters said I should have masked the car myself if I wanted a "good job".
Don't know if over the years these "cheapo places" have gotten better. I would ask them what, exactly, they do to prep the car before painting.
One question--what makes you think that this car is worth "top dollar"? There are several factors in valuing cars. Some of them include rarity, mechanical condition, and appearance. You seem to be out of luck on two out of three and the one you might be ahead of the game on is the most difficult to prove. Even if you have the receipts, they might be interpreted by a buyer as evidence of problems in the past rather than good condition. Your best bet might be to sell it to a friend (if you have that much confidence in it or if you have a lot of friends and can afford to lose one), who might have knowledge of the condition of the car and not care about the paint job. I do not think you can get "top dollar" for it, but there is one born every minute, so go for it.
As to the paint job, don't do it, IMHO.
On a house new paint works, but not for cars.
The paint on my mom's 1992 Geo Prizm has faded badly. It used to be a deep red color, now it looks pink. I was wondering how to restore the color if it's even possible.
I have tried using some rubbing compound by hand, but it failed to restore the paint. I was thinking of buying a buffer to see if that would help. However, the car does have a clear coat, so I wonder if using the buffer will just wore what remains of the clear coat away, causing the paint to fade even further.
In any case, why is the paint fading any way? Is the paint oxidizing under the clear coat? Is it because the clear coat has worn away? Is the clear coat somehow becoming cloudy?
Opinions any one?
Paul
I'd really recommend against an over the counter rubbing compound. They are too abrasive. Try looking though meguiers.com in their home and professional products information. They have several glazes and cleaning compounds for clear-coated and non-clear coated paints that can be used with a "home use" orbital buffer with a wet-pad. These products can be purchased at many better auto part and body shop supply stores.
As rs_petty points out, there are shops that will do this work for you. It may be worth it if you don't feel comfortable or have the tools.
As to why the clear coat is gone, I am not sure why. My mom rarely wash or wax the car, so may be 8 years of outdoor element finally done in the paint. Still, I had an 89 Acura Integra once that I didn't wash or wax all that much, but the finish remained.
So what should I do next? Should I even bother running a cleaning wax on the paint? I wonder if it will just take out the color layer. Is there some way to reapply the clear coat by hand? Should I keep the car coated with wax or Nufinish to keep what's left of the paint from fading?
Paul
It used to be that the red pigments faded the fastest of any color - maybe this is still true? Also - your Acura was probably more expensive, with better paint. The early Acuras were really well made.
I think red does fade faster than other colors, but I was surprise at the rate of fading and how quickly the clear coat disappear (acid rain hard around here or something?).
The 89 Acura Integra should have had a inferior paint job. It was 7 years older than the Prizm. Back then, I don't think clear coat was common. The car wasn't really more expensive. Back when the Integra first came out, they were going for about $12,000 and was supposedly sporty car for the masses. Nowadays, they're around $20,000.
By the way, why clear coat any way? If a clear coat is basically paint without pigment?
Paul
The clear coat is what gave the paint the gloss. The basecoat is more than likely a flat finish and no amount of polishing will give you a shine because the paint was not designed that way. A lot of good info on paints is available on the Spies Hecker website (spiesheckerusa.com - a new Dupont partner). I believe the reasons auto makers went to a two step process was quality control, and environmental concerns. Your right that acid rain could easily have eaten the clearcoat away, especially since this was in the early years of its use and maybe not as chemically stable as now adays. I suppose your choices are to live with it or get it repainted. I doubt there is any restoration possible, but at least check around - I'm no expert.
This is my first post in this group.
I need to know if there is a real need to wait a while before waxing a brand new vehicle? I have heard that it is best to wait a month or two before waxing a new car.
I have a new Jeep Wrangler on order from the factory, and it should be in by mid to late December. When it comes in, the paint will be only a week or two old. I would really like to get some wax on that baby while the paint is still perfect, but should I wait?
Help me, please.
tsjay
At first, I tried applying:
Turtlewax Finish 2001 (some bottle from years ago)
Liquid Lustre Ultra Gloss (the auto place said it was the best cleaning wax they have)
3M Cleaner Wax (Consumer Reports said it was the best cleaning wax).
NuFinish (from my Aunt)
Mother's Pure Canauba Wax (an nearly empty bottle)
All of the product except Mothers made the finish looked better, but none come even close to restoring the finish. I had hope that the Mothers would somehow coat over the defects in the paint, but this did not happen in practice.
A while back, I had purchased Megular's 3 system for my car. The 3 stages consist of a Prewax cleaner, a polish and then a wax. I tried to use it on my mom's Prizm, but it didn't even make a dent in the paint. I decided to substitute the polish stage with Liquid Lustre and 3M cleaner wax.
I first clean the surface using Megular's Prewax cleaner. The cleaner removed some stuff, but surface was still pretty rough.
I then followed it with Liquid Lustre on one part of the panel and 3M on another.
The Liquid Lustre claimed to be a once a year non-abrasive cleaner wax. I doubt that the finish will last that long. In any case, the product did clean, but not enough. It was easy enough to apply though. Just wipe it on and then wipe it off. You don't have to wait for it to dry.
The 3M on the other hand managed to restore the finish to some reasonable state. The paint still doesn't look new, and still contain some haze patches under some lighting conditions, but I think the haze is where the clear coat wore through. Interestingly, the clear coat on the top of the car seem to have wore through, but the paint along the side still seemed OK. Weird!
I plan to use this process to restore the car a section at a time. I heard that the 3M cleaner wax isn't very durable, so perhaps I'll coat it with NuFinish or something afterwards.
Paul
From all I've read on the Edmund's forums, you do not have to wait to apply protectant on a new car because the paint is baked on at the factory and is delivered fully-cured. The sooner you apply your protectant of choice, the better.
Paul
Nowhere did I read that you have clayed the car. Check out erazer.com for info. Mothers, Clay Magic, Zaino, and probably others make it. Once you have accomplished the more-thorough cleaning that clay is capable of giving you, then I would try polishing glaze.
That clearcoat is gone from horizontal surfaces, but no vertical should not be a surprise. Those surfaces are exposed to more of the effects of sunlight than the others.
I'm very pro-Zaino polish and paint care, and very pro-Mequiers for their glazes and surface preparation products.. Good luck!
I thought claying is suppose to remove surface contamination. I think the reason why the the patchy look probably comes from the clear coat flaking off. The area without clear coat is probably going to be less glossy than the clear coat. If I polish off all of the clear coat, the surface would probably look less patchy, but that would mean even less protection.
Your explanation for the faster clear coat deterioration on horizontal surface makes a lot of sense.
sddlw
I haven't see Zaino sold in the store any where. I heard their products are expensive. I don't suppose if they have a email or phone number I can call them about which product I should use?
Megular usually works pretty well, except that number 2 wasn't very effective in cleaning.
Paul
I can read most topics without problem, but earlier this week I started geting a blank screen when I select topics 1038 and 1319, the two 'wax' topics. Any one else have trouble with these two, or know how to fix it? You can email me direct if you don't want to respond here. Simpson@mixcom.com
Thanks.
I live in NJ and my car needs a wash badly. Does anyone here lives in tri-state area and knows a great car wash places around? Please let me know 1)name and location 2) hand or machine wash 3) cost 4) a sentence why you go there (distance? quality?) I really appreciated your input and thanks in advance.
For more info on Meguier's stuff, go to http://www.meguiars.com/ and look in the sections for paint preparation in both consumer and professional care products. Many good parts stores and auto body supply houses cary the professional products. Many are difficult for the consumer to use, but if you stick with the ones for hand buffing or orbital buffers you should do fine. Many body and detail shops will do this for you and because they have the equipment, supplies and experience, can do a great job, fast. You might want to price it out to see if this makes sense for you. But an over the counter orbital buffer, a bonnet made for wet work, and a couple of these glazing products will work wonders.
The initial fountains of water must be intended as a preliminary step, a preparation for the actual laser-guided wash. The initial fountains spray water upwards, which is probably the same direction most of the dirt was travelling as it headed for my car in the first place. The fountains wash off the surface dirt.
I drove forward. There's a framework on the floor of the LaserWash shed, a harness for the front left tire. I drove into the harness and was told to stop the car. The car had stalled anyway because I couldn't hear the engine and had allowed it to rev down too far. The strain of rolling into the harness had caused it to stall. I found that convenient, almost as if the LaserWash had been designed to stall the car at the exact moment it was secured. The LaserWash was now fully active.
A sign informed me that the wash step had begun. The main pipe began to spray a light foamy mist onto the car. The pipe is guided by a laser, hence the name. A laser conveyed the shape of my car to the machinery that moves the pipe, the essential geometry. Soon I couldn't see the LaserWash because the foam obscured the windshield.
The pipe returned to its initial position. The sign now indicated that my car was soaking. The foam slid off the windows slowly, enough that I could read the sign. Soon the soak time elapsed and the rinse began. The rinse phase is violent, more intense than the pre-wash spray. The water hurtles from the pipe, the car vibrates from the impact. The pipe retraced the vague outline of my car that it had learned from the laser system.
The wax phase began. I hadn't wanted any wax, but apparently the LaserWash is not configured to perform a wash without sealing its handiwork in wax. The wax is not optional. The pipe began its circuit again, spraying wax. The wax spray is gentle, a profound contrast to the rinse spray. Water beaded up on the windshield.
The wax phase finished. I heard a louder rumble than I'd heard before. The top of the car shook. The blowers had come on, and the sign instructed me to drive forward. There are blowers at the exit from the LaserWash shed, and there must be blowers in the middle. The ones at the exit are designed to blow the remaining water off the car, to seal the wax. The blowers are an essential part of the LaserWash system. I decided to drive very slowly under the blowers, to savor the action. I wanted the car to be as dry as possible. I paused as the hood began to dry. I slipped forward another two feet. The noise increased. I moved forward more. I tried to pause so that the back of the car would dry, but I had rolled too far. Reversing into the LaserWash did not seem smart. It's a one-way shed.
In conclusion, I highly reccomend this process for people who don't have the time to wash their own cars. Their were NO scratches, and the wax shined the car a bit.
FYI, thought I'd mention jus in case you may not realize that Malms Formula 10 is a polish/glaze, you will need to follow up with a wax ie Malms liquid or paste carnauba wax afterwards...let us know what you think...as I am also goin to try this combo also...
Vern
Vernlew, Malms Formula 10 contains some wax, "...soft carnauba wax gives some protection..." said Malms.com. The liquid carnauba wax is for EXTRA protection which I tried.
The results? I couldn't get my hands on the paste because, "...given to people that have previously purchased Malm's products before March 31, 1999..." but anyways, the combo was pretty good. It doesn't have the wet look as Zaino Bro's, but is smoother and lasts longer. Next time, I will try a Zaino/Malms combo which has Zaino Polish to give it a wet look, and Malms to seal the shine. Hopefully, this works...
Since the car hood gets hotter than the rest of the vehicle, does this mean I should wax the hood more often because the wax there will break down faster?
Paul
What about these self-serve car washes? The ones near me consist of a sprayer that distribute water, soap, and wax. There's also a brush that ooze foam. The idea is that you spray the car, spray it with the soap, then use the foam brush to get foam all over your car. Finally you rinse it off and spray it with wax.
Still, I wonder if the soap will strip off the wax. Dirt may built up on the brush. Perhaps I should just use the sprayer and bring my own bucket and wash? The sprayer seems to be a pressure variety, but I figure if I don't point the sprayer directly at the car it should be OK.
Opinions?
Paul
Bring your own car wash soap, such as Turtle Wax Zip Wax, your own soft wash mitt, and your own 100% cotton towels, and just use their water and facility.
2) Hood Waxing -
Yes - you are correct. The heat can cause the wax to break down faster, plus all your horizontal surfaces get more sun than the sides of the car.
Just be sure they do not use a detergent on your paint - only car washing soap!
I'm wondering how much time it would take to hand-wax a small car. I've never done it before, but now I have a brand-new car, and I feel I ought to wax it.
Brenda
Brenda
One reason I recommend it to you is because it is exremely easy, with non of the hard rubbing required my most waxes. And - once you have the special base coat on, following coats go VERY fast. I do one of our cars in about 20mins. to wipe on, and another 15 to wipe off.
Also, it will give you really good protection in a harsh climate so your car can stay looking new.
It is really important to "clay" your car before applying a wax or polymer. It will remove all kinds of gunk and pollutants from your paint, and your car will be so smoooooth the polish will almost go on by itself. You can read a very good explanation of this at www.erazer.com. The clay is the hard part, but you only need to do it once - then, if you polish your car regularly, it goes really fast.
Brenda
If you do the whole process with washing, clay, etc. the initial process will take a fair amount of work and time. But it can be a labor of love, especially with a new or classic car.
Can you use Zaino without the claying ... absolutely. Will you notice a difference .... well that depends. if your looking for the aboslute best shine and depth of color you can possibly get, then yes you will. It is aboslutley astounding what the whole process + 5 coats of polish will do for a car. We're talking high-end show car, spare no expense kind of finish. But if you just want a quality paint protectant and are not going to be quite as ... involved ... as some of us are with are autos, then you might decide to skip the claying and do fewer coats of polish. The protection and shine are still very good.
Have fun with your new car!
Some waxes might provide a better shine (although I haven't found one that does), but they will not last as long as Zaino. So, if I'm reading your posts right - you want your car to look good, but you don't really want to "detail" it every week. Zaino (or other polymers) might suit you better because they last longer.
Whichever way you go, put something on your paint, not so much for shine, but for protection from the elements. In the long run, you'll be glad you did. Who knows, you might even turn out like some of us and find it fun to wax your car.
I am in the process of acquiring a new vehicle. With regard to color, one candidate looks particularly good in black, but I am wary of getting another black vehicle, due to past experience (with another manufacturer's vehicle).
Any recommendations, short of more clear-coat, for making the finish look better longer?
Thanks,
SST