Paint and Body Care

automophile

As sddlw says - Dealer Add-on treatments such as paint sealant are total rip-off, and do little if anything. They most likely sell these things betting that you will not own the car or come back before the warranty expires. DON'T do it!

If you REALLY want your new car to look it's best,
- Instruct the dealer to to NOTHING to the outside when it arrives - no washing or detailing. This is where most of the scratches and swirl marks on a new car come from.
-Carefully detail the car yourself (or have it done at a good detailer). It is a good idea to clay even a new car to remove all kinds of stuff it is exposed to during transportation and sitting on the dock, in lots, etc.
- Treat it to a really good wax or polymer finish, and keep it up religiously. Your car will always look great, and be worth a lot more when you sell it. In general a good polymer can last longer and look better than waxes.

For the full story on clay, go to www.erazer.com. As Joe says, there are a lot of clays on the market, I have used Mother's with good results. Even brand new paint will become so smooth you won't believe it, and the wax/polish job will go even easier.

husky91

Thanks for the tip about the dealer sealant. I am to pick up my new BMW 530i this Saturday. I declined to have the sealant on and in my car due to the realization of economics of rip off.

question: what wax product would be good to use? somewhere in the discussions, Meguir(?) is a good product, is it?

side question: what is clay?

Thanks.

chuasan

Hi,

I can not believe there's no auto shops around my area sell Mother Clay package. Does anyone purchase clay from interned retailers? Do you know where can I find clay at discount? Any input will be appreciated

Chris

sddlw

I am a Zaino user, and they sell clay as well.
www.zainobros.com
I also used to use MeGuiar's and they have a clay product. www.meguiars.com

Zaino is sold only by mail. Meguiar's is sold in most auto parts stores.

There are two forums at Edmunds that debate waxes and clays, etc. The "Store bought wax" forum and the Zaino forum. But be warned. Wandering in to Store bought waxes and asking about Zaino is like going to Harlem with a KKK hood on. The Zaino forum is a bit less uptight.

markulies

ok, from what i have gathered the best way to remove the dealer's logo sticker they snuck on when i was in finance, is to heat it and use dental floss?/

jjccrv

There also is a brand called clay magic which comes in a kit as well and is about 19.95. It is very good clay and easy to work with as well as being durable. It is available at Pep Boys , Trak Auto and others. I have been very happy with the results using it.

anya

Would appreciate it if anyone can let me know if
there is some product out there that will remove
black marks off parchment colored leather seats
and trim. I think some dye from a new leather
jacket rubbed off. Someone told me to use Simple
Green, but it did nothing! Maybe a good leather
cleaner? Any suggestions? The car is new and I'd
like to keep it looking plush.

mike_542

Simple Green is quite strong and I don't think ANY leather cleaner will remove what Simple Green cannot.

mlt73

I have a common problem. After touching up a few small spots with factory touchup paint, the finish is no longer smooth.

I plan to apply a couple more coats before the nicks are raised to the existing paint's level. What exactly is the proper process to smoothen out the touched up areas? If I should wet sand, what is the specific grit? What are the steps to replace the clear coat, or is it necessary for such small areas?

Thanks for any advice!

dhanley

2000 grit sandpaper ( i bought some at autozone ) will smooth it out if you are careful and patient.

dave

kaycee41

Some advice please on factory paint form anyone who has had some experience.

I noticed after washing my new Honda Accord there are several small "pimples" in the paint. Looks like a small speck of dirt or dust got into the paint or the clear coat. I pointed it out to the service department and they said they would be glad to fix them for me, but several of the techs. said they would'nt mess with them. One guy said he would'nt "break the clear coat seal" that I would be better off leaving them alone. They aren't that noticeable, however, I worry they will eventually chip off. Are the servicemen right or do you think they want to avoid warranty work. I will say, so far the service department at this dealership has been very helpful and willing to satisify their customers. I have read past posts on Edmunds about Honda's paint not being too good, especially the black. What do you think? Thanks!

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe it's "rail dust" from transport?

sddlw

With today's all computerized paint processes and environmentally friendly paints, many makers are putting out less than perfect paint jobs. I've experienced problems with my new Lexus. Modeling (SP?) (where the metal flake took on distinct pattern, different than the rest of the paint, the size of a quarter on the B-piller, pimples in the paint (actual popped bubbles) in the door jam areas and easily chipped paint. I've heard others comment about similar problems with new MBs. It is always a trade-off when "fixing" paint. Best advice is not to do anything and keep the paint chips filled with touch-up paint, unless you use a really good body shop. But who wants a new car repainted?

I took my modeling paint complaint back to the Lexus dealer. Once they determined the paint was in fact less than perfect, we negotiated a settlement. I had the car for 6 weeks already, so swapping was not something the dealer would consider. They offered to have their shop fix the paint. I said that my body shop had recommended against that. They then asked "what can we do to make you happy" I ended up with new chrome rims (a $900 wholesale value)(No chrome comments Mr. S!!). I could have asked for free service or some other dealer instaled options.

I did have a friend once buy an BMW with 1,000 miles on it from a dealer (at a good discount) who's customer actually got a new car because of a paint defect. But I think the chances of this occuring very often are pretty small.

bigfur

Having worked in a few body shops id have to say leave it, breaking the clear coat will only cause trouble unless you repaint the entire panel. If you go that route DO NOT let the painter blend the clear coat, tell the manager that. it will peel very quickly.

dotsonohana

I have a dark blue plymouth Voyager that got some white stuff sprayed on it when driving to Las Vegas awhile back, there was alot of road work being done on the freeway and i remember a cloud of white dust/paint or whatever blowing around when we passed. Anyone know what this stuff is? It left white specks all over my van's paint job front to back, and do you know how to remove it?Any help would be greatly appreciated..and thanks!

joe166

If you will search this forum (and several others if you want a second opinion) you will find many postings about this problem. In order of harshness, from mildest to harshest (IMHO): you can try "claying" which has been described in rather tedious detail. You can use a polish with mild abrasives. You can use a polish with more harsh abrasives. You can use a polishing compound. You can use a rubbing compound. You can wet sand it. You can remove the paint entirely and repaint. You should probably start with the easiest and least obtrusive as you can always escalate. There are 915 prior posts in this subject alone. You can use them as a reference if these cryptic comments are not instructive enough.

chevy57

2001 Camry with metallic paint. Has a 6" scratch on fender, not to the metal. What's the best way to remove, take it to the dealer?

dogsrule

I have a 1991 Aerostar that's in perfect condition but with the hood insulation that needs replacement.

The dealer wants $94 for the 2x4 sheet of fiberglass. Other than getting the last made Aerostar's used foam from a junkyard, does anyone know of a discounter or alternatively, sheet fiberglass insulation replacement avaialable for custom fitting?

Thanks for the reply.

tomsr

I drove through an area where a construction
truck had just dropped a 5 gallon bucket of white
paint in the street.It got all over the lower
part of my car.My insurance paid for a full
detail to have it removed.Luckily it was latex.
In your case the state may be the cause but
they will reject a claim as they always do.

Mr_Shiftright

I'd certainly try milder forms of removal first...you could try latex paint remover from a hardware store (test it first on an obscure spot to make sure it wont' attack your car's paint). Sometimes WD-40 on a rag works nicely to take off tar/roaddebris/etc.

One thing I WON'T recommend due to safety factors is gasoline!

A buffing wheel expertly applied with a mild abrasive would probably do it. If it is a very heavy duty enamel paint, you might have a problem.

Whatever you do, do it soon!

sddlw

Try washing your car with a strong detergent like Dawn. If that doesn't work, try a solvent based paint cleaner. If that doesn't work, try
Meguiar's Swirl Remover, Show Car Glaze, New Car Glaze, or Clear Coat Body Scrub. (More or less in order of harshest to mildest abrasion). Try the least abrasive compound first. Alternatively, a non-whitening toothpaste might do the trick. It also contains mild abrasives like the kind that is used in may car glaze products. For home use, a good quality orbital buffer is probably a good investment. You really need to have some experience with the rotory buffers.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes! You need LOTS of experience to use a rotary buffing wheel.

scruplek

My van is a year and a half old. Clayed it and Zainoed it when first got it. Noticed bug smudges as time went along but figured they were on layers of Zaino and would come off when I Dawn washed it and clayed it again. WRONG!! They are there and big time. Tried a type of scouring pad (wrong term cause I know you will think S.O.S. pad but I can't think of the right term) but no luck. What to do now???

sddlw

If the mar in your finish didn't go away with washing with Dawn, try one of the "bug remover" products. If that doesn't work you're probably goning to have to use a mild abrasive product like the ones listed in post 922. I hope you didn't scratch your finish with the scouring pad. I'd be real leary of even the plastic ones. Even synthetic threads in cotton towels can lead to sctatches in the finish.

bretfraz

This is gonna be a challenge since it sounds like the bugs have been sitting on the bumper for some time. Sounds like you used one of those white bathroom pads (softer than the green 3M scouring pad) with no luck. OK, here's some suggestions:

- Forget the Bug & Tar removers that come in a little can. They are usually petroleum products which work great on dissolving tar but have almost no effect on bugs. Bugs are chemically acidic, unlike tar.
- Did you buy some kind of cleaner product with the Zaino stuff? I don't know their products but some of those chemical cleaner/polishes work great on removing bug guts. Takes some rubbing but at least no scratches.
- Do you have some of that citrus cleaner around the house? Not the stuff with pumice in it. Not OxyClean. The stuff I have is kinda thick, smooth, and really orangy smelling. If not go to the store and buy some. Even if it doesn't remove the bugs it's a good product to have around the house.
- 3M makes a product designed to remove bug goo. Check out your local NAPA Auto Parts as they always have lots of 3M stuff.
- Final shot: Avon Skin So Soft. This stuff works wonders. I used it years ago on bug guts with great results. Gotta call the Avon lady, though. I'm sure some ladies have websites so search that first.

My concern is that the bugs have eaten into the paint; at least the clear coat. You may have to go to a fine cleaner to finish the job.

Hope all this helps.

scruplek

I'll try them out. I have some of that citrus stuff..... Goo Gone and De-Solv-It. So that won't hurt the clear coat, huh? Not that it really matters now anyhow. Thanks a lot for the ideas

daverose

Bugs, as you have found out the hard way, and bird dung should be removed as soon as possible as they attack the surface. You should have a spray bottle of Zaino, or whatever liquid soap you use to wash the car, mixed with distilled water to loosen such contaminants as soon as you can.

The use of Dawn is only recommended prior to the first application of Zaino. The idea is to get your paint clean and protect it (from dust, dirt and the sun, not acidic contaminants) with that first application of Zaino and subsequent renewals of it at least every six months unless the vehicle is garaged, more frequently would be better. You do not need, and some even warn against, recurring use of Dawn or other similar akaline soaps.

cary28

We just bought a new T&C minivan which has leather and suede interior. Can anyone suggest products which can treat the leather, suede, and other surfaces in the interior to improve its wear and tear, while protecting its shine. I've read about the Zaimo products but would also like any recommendations for the exterior paint surfaces. I have bought some Meguire's Clear Coat finish when I bought a new car before, which may work to help seal in the new paint, but would appreciate any other feedback. Thanks.

Cary

daverose

It's hard to tell whether you meant to type "Zaino" or "Zymol." But since you sight the leather care products, a less well-known part of the Zaino Brothers Show Car Polish line, I presume you meant Zymol. So, I recommend that you check the Zaino company site, zainobros.com. Many demanding car enthusiasts love Zaino, I am not much of a car enthusiast, but I loved the ease of use and the results. I would not let the prices being more than many popular off-the shelf products deter you; they go a long way and, because of their high quality and desirable characteristics, are cost competitive with almost any product on the market today.

scruplek

Any good product suggestions for black trim?? The bottom door trim on my Odyssey is very dull looking as well as the mud guards. Thanks

csmith200

I have a similar question to post 931 but the black metal door handles, wiper arms etc on my Honda CR-V are still new and look it. Question is, what will keep them that way? I'm guessing ordinary wax will leave a white residue. Many years ago I saw products billed as being especially for black trim but I'm not seeing anything like that in the stores now.

adc100

I bought this stuff before I started reading this board. I am currently using it on my very new car. Any thoughts as to its quality. How long will it last. Any info is appreciated. I am not a perfectionist when it comes to car appearance. I just want it to look decent for a nominal amount (small) amount of work. A show car, she ain't Thanks.

alcan

I've had pretty good luck with Turtle Wax Black Chrome cleaner/sealant on grayed black exterior trim. There are probably other products which perform just as well, but a local detaing shop recommended it and I've been happy with the results.

cary28

Thanks for the tip. I do mean Zaino as there were lots of comments from demanding car enthusiasts about this product. I saw there were many steps involved in applying this product, with multiple chemicals and clay involved. I used to do this for my sports cars, but just don't have the time or inclination now that I have a family and for a minivan ;-)

I am looking for a one or two step process to treat a new van, which requires a few hours work and will last at least 6-9 months for Northern CAL weather. It doesn't have to be concourse quality, just durable and a deep shine. Thanks.

Cary

daverose

At its core, Zaino IS a two-step process, and most "maintenance" is an easy one, or two-step process. Using clay is optional, and using Dawn is only intended to be used before the first application; wash, dry, apply Z1, apply Z2, wipe off when dry. Maintenance: wash with Z7, dry. Alternate maintenance: wash with Z7, dry, wipe down with Z6. Re-applications of Z1 and Z2 depend on exposure to the elements vs. garaged/covered time. If rain stops beading, apply Z2; if it's been a year, apply Z1 first.

protegextwo

If you count shopping for blue Dawn, an atomizer bottle to apply the product and %100 cotton made in America Field Crest towels, hehe!

1.)A day for shopping and washing with blue
Dawn. Dry with your new towels, hopefully
your wife will not find your receipts
from Bloomingdale's!
2.)Apply Z-1 and let dry overnight, unless you
live in Arizona and there is less than 2%
humidity.
3.)Apply a very tiny amount of Z-2(use your
atomizer bottle) or everything will smear and
you will need to start over again.
-Larry

scruplek

Ok. I tried the Citric stuff. No luck. I guess that stuff would eat through the Zaino layers.... You all say not to use Dawn again to remove the wax so, I guess using these bug remover things will take off the wax layers and then get to the bugs????? I was trying to strip of the Zaino first with the Dawn where the guts are, then get them off. Couldn't find the 3M bug goo stuff at the NAPA store. What now????? I am an extreme novice so it has to be something simple.

daverose

Protogextwo's sly sharpshooting post #937, above, notwithstanding, after having read Zaino Experiences Part 2, post #1343, Shazzam! by Bushwack, I have to amend my "pronouncement" regarding Zaino maintenance. You can get by without the Zaino car wash (Z7) and gloss enhancer (Z6), just go to a touchless car wash, and apply Z2 again when rain stops beading and Z1 before the Z2, once or twice a year. Your car may not look as good, but you could end up with a more than decent, everyday look for the 6-9 months you said you were looking for. Except advising that you use the recommended towels, you would have most of the benefits of Zaino, particularly the UV protection, with minimal effort.

Y'all don't think Protogextwo is an English teacher or, horrors, a lawyer do you?

protegextwo

Dave, my friend; I was just teasing. You consistently give awesome advice to anyone posting here. I applaud your efforts and truly feel you provide a service to the Edmunds Townhall membership. You seem to be a real good guy and I personally enjoy and learn from your posts in the various maintenance and repair discussions. I know you do not promote your Z business here at Town Hall. Nonetheless, I am sure, I'll give the product a try sometime and I hope you and I can do business.

Respectfully;
Larry

sddlw

Apparently my opinion is not that popular, but since you are not making any progress I still recommend to strip the area using a strong detergent. If the bug guts are not coming off while leaving the Zaino intact, why not just strip it off and reapply it once the problem is fixed? If the detergent doesn't work (and it might not if the paint is stained) try something like Meguiar's Clear Coat Body Scrub or New Car Glaze. These are very, very mildly abrasive polishes. Or use a small amount of non-whitening toothpaste. When your done, just reapply Zaino to the area you stripped. IMHO the worst thing you can do is leave whatever has caused this blemish on your paint to remain there.

daverose

I know you were teasing and took it that way from the get go. My English teacher/lawyer comment was my attempt to further soften the use of the term "sly sharpshooting," which was meant to be humorous, too, but may have missed my mark. (That would be the opposite of sharpshooting, wouldn't it?) I'm sorry there was any question about how I took and reacted to your post.

My sense is that too many peopole are scared off from trying Zaino because the recommendations to obtain the ultimate use of the product could sound exhausting to someone. Many of those same recommendations apply to get the best results of ANY paint care product, but are not critical to the outcome.

cary28

Thank you very much for your tips and suggestions, along with helpful comments from other Zaino users. I'll try to find a local distributor of Zaino in San Jose and pick up some products. I looked at the website and find the $6.95 S&H charge a bit excessive. Does anyone know of any Zaino distis in the Silicon Valley? Thanks.

Cary

terrahawk

I recieved a dent about 1/2" deep and 2"*5" in size on my metal bumper. Does this sound like a repair job that I could attempt with Bondo? My alternative is to have the bumper replaced for $400-500 (or ignore it). Does anyone know of any "how to" sites on the web for this type of repair? Thanks, Peter

daverose

Thanks for the compliment. Email Sal Zaino (sal@zainobros.com) for the name of a distributor near you.

The $6.95 shipping and handling would seem excessive if you were buying only a few items. My initial order was for 25 items (one each of most products, 2 of 2 products that I saw using more of, and 12 applicatiors) and I still paid that same flat shipping charge. I guess it depends on your prospective.

scruplek

I did try the Dawn stripping first and the honeycomb bug pad. Then like an idiot I went ahead and re-Zainoed the hood. So then I tried the citric stuff and it didn't do anything...of course this was on top of the Zaino. People have said not to continue using Dawn over and over, so I just tried the citric stuff over the Zaino. Somehow I've got to get the Zaino layers off first I guess. The guts I think are into the paint because of the way it looks. Reminds me kind of like dried raw egg white, except not shiny but dull. I have some bug and tar remover. Guess I could try that too. Didn't figure it would work since the scrubber didn't even budge them. Guess now it won't hurt to try. Thanks for the names of the scrubbing compounds.

dahle

Living in upstate NY with all the salt they use during the winter has been harsh on my truck's paint job--I have a small 2mm spot of chipped paint that has rusted. Could any one help with directions to fix the rust myself? ( going to the shop with such a small spot would be ridiculous.)

Thanks, in advance.

joe166

There is a web site that has detailled instructions on how to deal with small paint chips. I am afraid that I was not able to access it last time I tried, but it used to be www.carcareonline.com. Someone else (bretfraz, I think) found it and posted the new address about a month ago in this forum. Look in there and they will go into detail including using pencils with erasers and gluing sandpaper to the erasers so that you can sand a small area. Very helpful. I used the information to touch up a paint chip and it can't even be seen now. Look back unless someone wants to post it again, I just don't remember it.

daverose

Did you try use isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) to get the Zaino off?

bretfraz

I think they were having server problems the day Joe and I tried to get on. Seems to be working OK now.

Here's the link to their How-To articles. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open the pdf files (it can be downloaded for free at Adobe's website):

http://www.carcareonline.com/howto_articles.html

dahle

The information was great. Now I need to find time to do the job. Much appreciated.