[LONG POST: repeat/edit of some info I posted in another forum]
There are some rather “interesting” opinions on oils / lubrication / testing / extended drains...Cars can be a passion for enthusiasts.
Waaay too many posters in these technical forums sound too "authoritative" in their tone. Most are probably well-meaning I know. Claiming a solid "I know" cause/effect relationship (or implying it) without data is kinda silly. Like race car Drivers??? endorsing "miracle" aftermarket oil additives...come on, that is "testimonial" not proof/solid evidence. Netizens beware...
FWIW, I am a Chemical Engineer, and STLE (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers) CLS(tm)(Certified Lubrication Specialist).
The color of the oil is not really relevant as to its condition in most cases (big exception might be busted coolant gaskets in the block---you CAN see that kind of contamination). There are so many chemicals in modern spec. oils to keep it “healthy” during use, that used oil testing is only way to go for definitive answers. If you change it when it first becomes dark, that is only good for oil suppliers, your engine will not benefit.
I NEVER recommend *consumers* vary from OEM (original equipment manufacturer --- i.e. carmakers in this case) oil drain and viscosity recommendations no matter what testing processes they do...risk/reward is just too small IMHO. It is technically fine (if perhaps economically imprudent) to be more conservative and/or test used oil, but set your maximum service intervals at OEM time/mileage for your service conditions.
“Severe service” is not quite as common, in my opinion, as some Quicklubes would have you believe because *occasional* severe conditions (e.g. desert type heat & dust / stop & go) are not the same as “truly severe service” like, say for example, daily long idling police cars & frequent trailer towing.
BTW, it is very surprising the amount of 10W40 & 20W50 PCMO we sell...***BUT no OEM recommends those grades any longer*** (and has not for a while). Old habits/beliefs die-hard. Within proper ranges (OEM spec) higher viscosities are not “better” or more protective.
For the record, I personally use syn & premium (or OEM) filter in my personal cars, and change at about 5K miles...this is really overkill (vs. 7500 miles) I cannot intellectually justify, but heck oil is cheap and engines are not. The syn does not really lube "better", but does provide some additional safety margins in some areas (temperature extremes, and a slightly over-spec. formulation maybe close to GF-3/SL “next generation oils”). Syn might have less “flowing friction”(my words) for better mileage/HP, but this is probably way too small to observe/measure, and is technically controversial.
I have used oil analysis from time to time on my older car to check conditions. Titan Labs (sold at K-mart) has a consumer-friendly report. Most folks should avoid purely numeric reports like fleets use.
At work, we use Cleveland Tech (CTC) for used oil analysis, they may do some other “OEM-branded” tests too, I do not know. But our work is for fleets, and mostly HDMO (i.e. Heavy-Duty Motor Oil for sooty diesel engines, not PCMO --Passenger Car Motor Oil).
Note that visual oil filter inspection in sometimes helpful, but not conclusive. Filters can pull out to 10-25 microns; only people with good vision can see (in ideal conditions) down to maybe 20 microns. Also particles are buried in the media. Memory says particles in typical engines need to be over about 40 microns to possibly damage anything in the tightest bearing clearances in most engines. Most importantly most filters are not designed for “long life” service.
My PCMO oil advice to consumers is mostly like "Click & Clack"(NPR car show) give:
(1) GF2/API SJ oils are very good even at base spec. blend
(2) buy a major brand (big oil co or retail brand --- the issue is day to day quality control, NOT who is "best" oil. Around 5%, if I remember correctly, per API tests and State of NC tests (only state that checks) of “off-the-shelf” oil are misblended/off-spec. I think big suppliers do better QC.
(3) change oil and use a good filter (OEM, Purolator, Wix, are my favorites, others may be OK) each time and do it at *5000 miles* not 3000 oil change places say...when the color get darker the oil is still fine for service. If you are TRULY severe service (per OEM), then do that recommendation for miles
(4) Add **nothing** to the oil. PCMO is a VERY competitive market---if there was a “miracle” additive in would be in oil in the first place...major Oil/Chemical company developers/chemical suppliers are doggone pretty smart formulators.
Smaller specialty oil supplers can vary on oil change intervals and testing advice, and often push extended drains & expensive oil. They need a way to merchandise oils, and it is quite true that ***done right*** extended drains are possible in most cases; just kinda silly and risky for most consumers in terms of risk/hassle & reward. The risk/reward ratio looks much better for extended drain if you run a fleet and have economic impact when vehicles are serviced. Furthermore, current major-branded oils will give you plenty of miles without oil-related issues/failure. Just sold a 150K mi. 88 Accord run on regular oil, with plenty of engine life left, even if the rest of the car showed a bit more wear!
Good post, you seem to know what you're talking about. I agree with you about oil change intervals. I think too many people are misguided about 3000 mile oil changes. Sure it may be insurance, but it's insurance you don't need. I change my oil at 5000 mile intervals and even that is more than the manufacturer reccomends. My oil is just as black at 3000 miles as it is at 5000 miles, so if I changed oil based on color I would change every 1000 miles!..Unless you are driving in sever conditions(which very few people do) in my opinion, 5000 miles is more than adequate.
The problem with the Texaco warranty and all others ( the old Quaker State etc.) is that they do not cover wear, normal wear and tear. Sure, if a catastrophic event occurred and you could blame the failure of the oil then Tecxaco would pay, the probability of the oil being the culprit is a snowball in hell. They are assuming no risk here. I can guarantee that they will pay on a claim, never.
....will show an accumulation of small particles to the naked eye if only because the particles are likely to be a different color than the filter element. An inspection is free and worthwhile if you do it yourself. True that very dark oil may be OK. Sorry to imply that color alone would reveal when to change, altho it helps. Not true that very frequent changes only represent extra money. The drain plug threads may get stripped. The copper gasket (as in a SAAB 9000 or 900) may not get replaced and leak. The oil filter gasket may leak. Not true that changing oil without changing the filter, when 20% of the oil that is in the filter contaminates the new oil, is really a problem. The 80% of new oil will give the mixture pretty reasonable properties. The difference in viscosities is so great that you can tell just by shaking the oil bottle. Valvoline fully synthetic is much less viscous than petroleum oil, and gives you 10° F more on the low end of easy starting. Castrol fully synthetic was so much more viscous that, when I noticed it, I decided not to use it, and gave it to a car owner who is based in the CA desert. Not true that no mfgrs. recommend oil more viscous than 10W-30. My Subaru SVX manual recommends 30, 40, 10W-50, 20W-40 and 20W-50 for desert or towing in hot areas. (Also 7,500 mile oil changes for normal service.) My SAAB 9000 Turbo manual recommends 10W-40 or 15W-40 for severe conditions. (Also 10,000 mile oil canges for normal service.)
I have a 2000 Lexus RX300 with 1000 miles on it. The dealer is telling me that every 5000 miles it requires maintenance including oil change, tire rotation, valve adjustments and driveline bolt torquing. The charge for this service is $105.00 every 5,000 mi. Is all this really necessary or will Oil/Filter change suffice each 5,000 miles?
What does the manual say? Most dealers have their own maintenance plans which are significantly more severe then the owner's manual and 99% of the time are simply provided to customers to get more service business. They state that it is based on "local conditions' which is pure "BULL" Valve adjustments in most engines today are not required. Plus, the last engine to need 5000 mile valve adjustments was the ole VW Beetle
Took my car into the dealer and they said that at 15,000 miles I need tires rotated oil change brakes checked new air filter transmission fluid drained and filled and same for the differential fluid. I have a 99 camry and told them the book doesn't state that it needs all of that and they said that this is what is needed for living in Ks. I told them I never heard of a car that needed new transmisson fluid once a year had never had any vehicle that required that much maintence. Was just wanting some of your oppionions cause I don't feel like I can trust the dealer anymore. Also I was wondering what exactly is the differential fluid don't want to ask the dealer exactly then sure they will try and ripp me off. Thanks for your time.
You are being RIPPED OFF by the Toyota dealer. I have a 92 Camry, same engine as the 99 (if you have the V6) At 15,000 miles the following is needed. Oil change if needed, depends on your schedule for this. Air filter is optional,manual says 30,000 you should do this yourself anyway, housing clips on and filter is about$12 at dealer, less with a non Toyota dealer. Transmission fluid and differential fluid are one and the same on this car. Manual says 30,000 miles. Tire rotation optional, depends on whether you had it done before and if you believe in the rotational method. $30 if done Brakes, at 15,000, don't bother. Besides they have wear indicators. Checking the brake wear should be free anyway. If you change your own oil you can also change the trans fluid by simply pulling the plug and drain and refill. Summary, oil change/filter if the time is right. Nothing else needed. Ask the dealer why Kansas is unique? Rip off "State"? Never say doa 15,000 mile check up. Instead say oil change, filter, rotate only. Nothing else etc.
The 7500 miles service includes inspecting brakes, suspension, driveshaft boots(what's this??), tie rod ends(???), steering gearbox and boots. Should I take it to the dealer to do these? Or should I find a mechanic?
Most cars have a normal and a severe condition. Usually severe condition indicate that the car is idling in traffic, used as a taxi or police, or towing, or use in dusty environment (dirt road?) It's not clear to me what is severe. I spend about half the time stuck in traffic and the other half on a highway. What about standard city traffic, is that "severe" condition?
You got one response in the new topic you created. Since this is the best place to discuss your question, I'm going to paste that response here:
#1 of 1: any stop n go is...(amora) Thu 23 Nov '00 (07:31 AM)
Use the severe maintenance schedule. I drive 78 miles one way at 65-75 and on return somestimes get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic here in Los Angeles. THIS IS ULTRA SEVERE DRIVING...
Regards
Good luck.
Pat Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
What's the story on fuel filter replacement.. mainly, how often? The owners manual doesn't mention it as maintenance item.
I was going to do it myself (@30K miles), but discovered replacement is not like with my '93 Voyager. The filter is a $27 plastic part with 3 hoses, and you gotta get above the gas tank! Has anyone done this... is it best left to a "pro"?
hmmm... can you get it up in the air? if not, it takes about 5 minutes to do with the car on a lift. it can be very frustrating if it's not on a lift.
consider yourself lucky. in my f-150, you need a special tool to do the job. why fuel filters moved from a nice convenient place in the engine compartment to stuffed in the middle of the fuel line underneath the car is beyond me.
of simple monthly checks and good record keeping that ANYONE can learn to do called Proper Maintenance (PM): http://www.modular.net/hoofer/
It helps me keep my cars running and looking like new for at least 10 years and 200,000 miles.
Part of the core of PM is to follow the OEM "severe" schedule, regardless of the type of driving you do. The OEM is motivated to keep your vehicle together long enough to avoid paying warranty claims and still keep a steady supply of repeat customers. Go for the PM schedule the OEM thinks is really needed: "severe"
You can download my FREE PM checklists and see picture of my 12 year old Ford Taurus with 198,000+ miles maintained with PM at my site.
As for the fuel filter on the Caravan, it is INSIDE the fuel tank and is not a job for the shadetree mechanic.
your maintenance system. I keep records in my sony laptop and have the maintenance manuals. However if someone is totally mechanically inclined, the repair manuals listed on back of most new vehicles owner's manual has an order form for the OEM manuals, they are quite expensive but will show you how to replace almost 100% of all vehicle components.
I notice a couple of items missing from most maintenance manual:
Brake fluid replacement - every 2 years? I recalled that water typically collect in the brake fluid, so it should be flushed every 2 years.
Power Steering fluid replacement - every 2 years? Any reason why this should or should not be flushed? Does water collect in the system.
Engine Coolant - In the old days, it was recommended that the coolant be change every year, two if you add rust inhibitors. Has coolant improve over the years so that this is unnecessary. Is rust inhibitors really necessary? Should coolant system be flush?
Spark plug wire - I figure a change every 5 years would do the trick. Earlier if they look damaged.
Coolant hose and clamps - replace every 4 years for safety sake?
Battery - ???
Gas cap and coolant cap - I figure changing the coolant cap every 4 years would be sufficient. The emission inspection usually checks for a bad gas cap, so I'll wait until the mechanic complains.
Alignment - wait until there is a noticable problem either in the tire or the steering?
Waterpump - most people recommend replacing it with the timing belt, but most cars need timing belt changed at 60,000 miles. 60,000 seemed too low. Could it be done at every other timing belt change or 120,000 miles or will the pump give out before that?
As a car age, stuff will start breaking down. Rather than waiting until the car dies and leaves you in a bad neighborhood, can the item be replaced before they fail. For example, how long does the alternator last? What about starter motor, and distributor?
I have 1999 Honda Odyssey and it is up for 30k service. Owner's manual recommends (Besides oil change) only air filter and AC filter replacement. When I called Honda dealer, they recommended transmission service, coolant flush, brake fluid flush, distributor cap replacement, and spark plug replacement. Whom should I trust: owner's manual or Honda Dealer? sermolin
30,000 look in manual. Other then maybe oil/filter, air filter, and maybe fuel but fuel could be 60,000. transmission, maybe 30,000 but switch to synthetic fluid. Coolant, bet the manual says 45,000 or 60,000 or even 100,000. Never ever say do a 30,000 mile manitenance. If at all list just specific items or they do inspection crap and you pay for it such as window washer fluid, lube doors etc. Most cars are platinum plugs now, minimum 60,000, distributor, hell. most have coils now. No, no distributor! Dealer is doing much more then the manufacturer recommends and he will say " well, because of the climate in this area we suggest this". BULL
I heard engine oil is generally replaced every 3000mile in US. Regardless of manufacturers recommend more long interval, why is engine oil replaced every 3000 mile? Is it really? I am interested in schedule maintenance in US.
Newer US cars recommendations generally are to use a 7,500 mile replacement interval (for "conventional" oil) unless the car is used in a "severe" driving condition, in which case a 3,500 mile interval is recommended.
"Severe" driving condition is sometimes defined as either repeated trips under 5 miles; repeated trips under 10 miles when outside temperature is below freezing; driving in stop-and-go traffic in hot weather; extensive idling or low-speed driving for long distances (police cars, taxis); driving in dusty conditions; driving on rough, muddy or salted roads, or towing a trailer.
What's the recommendation in your part of the world? Steve_ Host Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I manage the rapirs of a large fleet and on automotive (or light fleet)we change the oil at 3,000-4,000 miles. On heavy fleet(Kenworths and such) the oil gets changed at 4,000 miles. All of these vehicles are considered "extreme" duty and those are the intervals that Valvoline, Fleetguard and Cummins have come up with for us.
Am I just wasting money doing the more frequent maint schedule that the dealer recommends or should I just stick to the "SEVERE" schedule in my owner's manual? With my new car, even the severe schedule seems kind of long (e.g. 5,000 miles/6 months for oil change).
The dealer's publish their own schedule and claim that it is regional/local and more severe then manufacturer's due to the climate etc. I bet every dealer in the country has a more severe schedule, it is simply a money maker.
I think 100K is a decent mileage to change fuel filters. On some cars or trucks, they are inside the gas tank right at the bottom of the sending units. On some cars like, Dodge Stratus, you have to drop the gas tank to get to it. Where was the designers' brain when they put it on top of the gas tank?
I love GM cars' location of the fuel filter. they are right by the gas tank, easy to get to. I don't know why Toyota?Mazda put the filter inside the engine area, it is a #$%@ to get to the bottom part of the filter, anf if you have leak there, you set the engine on fire!
On Chrysler vans 96-01, the fuel filter also has three nylon hoses pressed onto the filter. There is no doubt that the reason is to make the filters cheaper when Chrysler buys them( eliminating three quick connects), but more expensive when we buy it (Have to buy all those press fitted formed nylons). The filter change however is easy. On Dodge ram and Dakota trucks, the filter (really a screen mesh) is inside the gas tank, and is not serviceable. I think 98-01 Honda Accords also have no fuel filters, and are using a tiny screen inside the tank.
Hi, I have a 99 Olds Alero that is coming up on 30K miles. The dealer recommends a 30K mile service for about $200. They want to inspect everything, replace air, oil, and fuel filters, do any alignment, change the oil,rotate the tires, something about a pcv valve, and some other stuff. Is this worth the money? The car manual only says that I have to change the oil, rotate the tires, inspect the brake lines and gas lines, and change the air filter if necessary.
I don't know all that much about car maintence since this is the first car I had to maintain. Any help would be appreciated :-)
Change the oil and fitler at 30k only if this is within you normal schedule. You can do the air filter yourself and passenger air filter if it has one. Go by teh schedule in your manual, the dealers schedule is excesive and meant to build service business. Rotate tires go with your schedule all inspections,(visual observations mostly) are a waste of money to pay a dealer for. Fuel filter is anywhere from 30k-90k, again look in owners manual.
let's say the alero costs 20k (i have NO idea, i'm picking that number out of the sky). once every 30K miles, the dealer wants 200 dollars to PM your car. 1% of the cost of the item being serviced.
that item, btw, that you leave out in the rain, drive in horrible conditions, survives our wonderful american roads, and you count on to start and run without a burp every time you get in it.
somehow, i'm missing something here. do you buy a house and never maintain it?
as far as people doing their own visual inspections, how many of you out there think you can tell me whether your brake lines are bad, or would even know where to look, for that matter. amoungst many other things.
$200 sounds like a great deal to me if...IF...they indeed do all they say they will do. And what's wrong with pulling the wheels off and having a look at brakes, rotors, tie-rods, CV joints, whatever, while you're under there?
First, at 30k the probability of them actually doing the visual inspections is a snowball in hell and the probability of something wrong is even lower at 30k. Perhaps at 60k. If the items are not mentioned in your owner's manual there is absolutely no loss of warranty issues here. Inspect gas and brake lines, give me a break!!!!!!!! You may need need brakes pads at 30k and they would certainly inspect the lines at that time as well but pads only if indicated.
Well, that's a pretty pessimistic attitude. I don't see why a hard-working technician can be assumed to not give a fig about anyone's safety, or that he/she doesn't care at all about doing a decent day's work for a decent day's pay.
Also seems to me you could ask for a pencil-checked list of what was done to your car while you wait, and also ask for percentages of wear on brake pads.
last of all, if these items are checked off (or even listed on the repair order), you've got evidence.
Of course, if you distrust your dealer that much, you could have the same work done at your private garage. The idea is to get the work done and to do all of it!
am i being naive to think that people are actually doing the job they tell me they are doing? i guess i have more faith in my fellow humans than you do armtdm.
i'm not even worried about "warrantee issues". i'm worried about "safety issues". yea, maybe brake line failure is a 1 in 10,000 issue in the first 30K. i don't want to be the 1 when i have to hammer on my brakes when some nimrod cuts me off on the turnpike. and so on.
Change your oil normally. Air filter and pcv valve you can change it by yourself. Check and smell transmission fluid. Most likely 30k is too soon to change. Change the brake pads and rotors when they are needed. Fuel filter is way too soon. Coolant need not be flushed this soon. And this inspection by the dealer is a joke. You can inspect your own belts and hoses. By having them "inspect" brake lines doesn't mean that 2k miles later the line cannot leak or something. But then again $200 is a very good deal if they will do it all.
Some mechanic, who is paid by the job, not the time, is going to physically inspect the brake and fuel lines on a car with 30K. And, as the previous post noted, a line can break at any time, although I have not heard of a brake or fuel line breaking in a car under 100,000 miles in years. And if it is inspected and it breaks in a week is the dealer going to fix it free (unless under warranty) NO WAY! they will claim just one of those unknown circumstances. Bes to do you own inspections.
"smell" the transmission fluid... how many folks out there would know by the "smell" whether it was good/bad/indifferent?
yes, *some of us* can do these inspections by ourselves, no doubt... but 95% of the population (and i'm being generous, probably more) can't even be bothered to check the air pressure in their tires, let alone properly inspect a vehicle...
maybe i'm a fool (you know what they say about money soon parted), but it gives me a sense of well being when a competent bmw tech looks over my car every now and then... for me, it's money well spent...
Ever change a fuel filter on your back crawling in a driveway? WAYYY fun.....or jack up a wheel with a tiny little crank jack, one wheel at a time, and then unscrew all the lug nuts, and then pull off each wheel and then look at each brake pad and then ge the oil bucket and then undo the bolt and then wipe the oil out of your armpit and then tilt the oil bucket to get the oil into the old Clorox bottles with the funnel and then wipe the oil off your driveway and then take the oil to the recycle place and then return the wrong air filter to Kragens and then get try to find exactly where the fuel filter is anyway (is that it, behind the rear wheel?) and..............you get the idea........
There must be easier and safer ways to save money.
Most people can change their own oil, oil filters and air filters. Plus, you know the job is done right. Sorry, way too many fast food service bays (whether they be dealer, independent or chains) to trust basic maintenance to them. Oil changes are loss leaders and their internt is to get through them ASAP. Too many loose filters, crankcase bolts, overfills and underfills. With the time spent looking over their work at the end you may as well do it yourself. Been burnt too many times over the years.
Well, I don't mean that everyone should do all the maintenance themselves. I certainly don't do a lot of them myself. I do my own oil changes because I want to use quality oil and filters. If I bring in Mobil 1 how would I know the dealer will put it in? I change my own air filters, pcv valve, coolant, etc. But certainly I don't mean people should put on their dirty clothes and do it themselves. Simply that you should do what your car needs and when it needs it. You can certainly bring it to wherever you trust and have them rotate tires, alignment, transmission service, fuel filter, etc.... But the 30k service is BS. Like the Lexus dealer wants $110 for the 10k miles service, which basically includes oil and filter change, rotate tires, and they "go thru" the whole car. Do you actually think they will "go thru" the whole car that has 10k miles? I doubt it. Even if they did most likely nothing is wrong. They would probably say the heck with it since you would bring it in anyways if something was wrong. So I think you should at least know when things are needed to be done and go in there and tell them what YOU want done and not what THEY tell you to do. Many cars nowadays have spark plugs and wires that goes 100k miles. So a dealer who advertises 30k miles tuneup and change wires and plugs are nuts. You are paying for what's not necessary. Remember most car dealers can't survive by selling cars, its the service that brings in the $$$...
I think a service at 30K is a great idea.....cars self-destruct all the time at 30K...ask any warranty processor at a major dealership. 30K is 1/5th the life of the car already, and the best 1/5th, too. It's like saying never go to the doctor when you're young. True, you may not need it as much as when you are old, but you need it nonetheless.
Where do you live that you mistrust everyone so much? Are your dealerships controlled by the Russian mafia or something?
Also, most owners are not competent enough to service a modern car....oh, sure, they can do the oil and filters, but most don't know a warped brake rotor or bad suspension bushing from a doughnut. Not because they are unintelligent, by no means, but because they aren't trained to know what to look for.
It's just that over the years I have had too many instances where the service manual contadicts what the service rep says who is also contradicted by what the mechanic says. Or the dealer replaces a tranny fluid gasket and I check the fluid and whoa, an inch over the full mark. Dealer service rep claims they started the engine and let it idle for 10 min before checking and it was fine. Proper procedure, as we all know, is to drive it at least 10 miles and then check the fluid. They take too many shortcuts due to time/money issues. They cannot afford the time to drive it 10 miles to properly warm up the fluid. Of course, they could have measured how much was drained out as I would do!
Recently asked the Isuzu dealer how to change tanny fluid on a 97 Rodeo (no dipstick) . He kept showing me a picture from the service manual. I kept telling him that what is under this SUV is not what is in his book. He said I was crazy. Finally asked a mechanic who agreed with me. Haynes manual actually correct in this instance.
The list goes on. Mechanics and service reps not necessarily incompetent but they service too many years, makes and models of cars to know what each issue is whereas I know my cars better then they do!
If you haven't done so already - 30K would be a good time to have your brake fluid flushed and refilled. Should be done at least every 2 years if you will keep your car for awhile. If it's a 3 year lease, don't bother.
Would somebody, please, tell Me if that is alright to drive with power-steering reservoir filled (for whatever reason, I do not know) with transmission(?) fluid (it is having red color) instead of pwr-steering fluid. Should I drain it away and fill up with a standard PS fluid, or there is no harm in using and mixing this two types of fluids?
I am not sure what vehicle you own and what's it's manufacturer recommend. But my Lexus and Chrysler both states in the owner's manuals that "use Dexron III ATF fluid" for power steering. From my past experiences, many people have said that it is OK to do so. I wouldn't go and use PS fluid in a transmission though.
I just bought a 2000 cavalier with the 2.2 engine auto trany. I had the worst time in removing the oil filter from the car. I was able to un-screw it ok but the problem was getting the filter out of the car. Do i take it out through the top or the bottom of the car. thanks for any help on this matter
mine is Pontiac Bonneville'92 and in the manual it says: "use standard PS fluid". Also, on the PS fluid can it says: "do not use in automatic transmissions". Thanks
What is odd is that on my 99 Lexus the owner's manual say to use ATF Dexron III Mercon fluid for power steering. But on the PS reservoir cap it says to use PS fluid. I did talked to lexus dealer and they said use either one is OK. The factory filled PS fluid in there now is red while the STP PS fluid is clear. So I guess when I need to I will will the ATF Dexron III in there.
My 2000 Camry has about 7500 miles on it and it will be 12 months old in June. I had an oil change at 4000 miles and that's it. Tires have not been rotated yet and it probably should be done now. Next oil change will probably be within the month. In June when it will be 12 months old, it should have less than 10,000 miles. I should take it in then for it's "intermediate" service since that will occur way before 15,000 miles. Does that sound right???
Comments
There are some rather “interesting” opinions on oils / lubrication / testing / extended drains...Cars can be a passion for enthusiasts.
Waaay too many posters in these technical forums sound too "authoritative" in their tone. Most are probably well-meaning I know. Claiming a solid "I know" cause/effect relationship (or implying it) without data is kinda silly. Like race car Drivers??? endorsing "miracle" aftermarket oil additives...come on, that is "testimonial" not proof/solid evidence. Netizens beware...
FWIW, I am a Chemical Engineer, and STLE (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers) CLS(tm)(Certified Lubrication Specialist).
The color of the oil is not really relevant as to its condition in most cases (big exception might be busted coolant gaskets in the block---you CAN see that kind of contamination). There are so many chemicals in modern spec. oils to keep it “healthy” during use, that used oil testing is only way to go for definitive answers. If you change it when it first becomes dark, that is only good for oil suppliers, your engine will not benefit.
I NEVER recommend *consumers* vary from OEM (original equipment manufacturer --- i.e. carmakers in this case) oil drain and viscosity recommendations no matter what testing processes they do...risk/reward is just too small IMHO. It is technically fine (if perhaps economically imprudent) to be more conservative and/or test used oil, but set your maximum service intervals at OEM time/mileage for your service conditions.
“Severe service” is not quite as common, in my opinion, as some Quicklubes would have you believe because *occasional* severe conditions (e.g. desert type heat & dust / stop & go) are not the same as “truly severe service” like, say for example, daily long idling police cars & frequent trailer towing.
BTW, it is very surprising the amount of 10W40 & 20W50 PCMO we sell...***BUT no OEM recommends those grades any longer*** (and has not for a while). Old habits/beliefs die-hard. Within proper ranges (OEM spec) higher viscosities are not “better” or more protective.
For the record, I personally use syn & premium (or OEM) filter in my personal cars, and change at about 5K miles...this is really overkill (vs. 7500 miles) I cannot intellectually justify, but heck oil is cheap and engines are not. The syn does not really lube "better", but does provide some additional safety margins in some areas (temperature extremes, and a slightly over-spec. formulation maybe close to GF-3/SL “next generation oils”). Syn might have less “flowing friction”(my words) for better mileage/HP, but this is probably way too small to observe/measure, and is technically controversial.
I have used oil analysis from time to time on my older car to check conditions. Titan Labs (sold at K-mart) has a consumer-friendly report. Most folks should avoid purely numeric reports like fleets use.
At work, we use Cleveland Tech (CTC) for used oil analysis, they may do some other “OEM-branded” tests too, I do not know. But our work is for fleets, and mostly HDMO (i.e. Heavy-Duty Motor Oil for sooty diesel engines, not PCMO --Passenger Car Motor Oil).
Note that visual oil filter inspection in sometimes helpful, but not conclusive. Filters can pull out to 10-25 microns; only people with good vision can see (in ideal conditions) down to maybe 20 microns. Also particles are buried in the media. Memory says particles in typical engines need to be over about 40 microns to possibly damage anything in the tightest bearing clearances in most engines. Most importantly most filters are not designed for “long life” service.
My PCMO oil advice to consumers is mostly like "Click & Clack"(NPR car show) give:
(1) GF2/API SJ oils are very good even at base spec. blend
(2) buy a major brand (big oil co or retail brand --- the issue is day to day quality control, NOT who is "best" oil. Around 5%, if I remember correctly, per API tests and State of NC tests (only state that checks) of “off-the-shelf” oil are misblended/off-spec. I think big suppliers do better QC.
(3) change oil and use a good filter (OEM, Purolator, Wix, are my favorites, others may be OK) each time and do it at *5000 miles* not 3000 oil change places say...when the color get darker the oil is still fine for service. If you are TRULY severe service (per OEM), then do that recommendation for miles
(4) Add **nothing** to the oil. PCMO is a VERY competitive market---if there was a “miracle” additive in would be in oil in the first place...major Oil/Chemical company developers/chemical suppliers are doggone pretty smart formulators.
Smaller specialty oil supplers can vary on oil change intervals and testing advice, and often push extended drains & expensive oil. They need a way to merchandise oils, and it is quite true that ***done right*** extended drains are possible in most cases; just kinda silly and risky for most consumers in terms of risk/hassle & reward. The risk/reward ratio looks much better for extended drain if you run a fleet and have economic impact when vehicles are serviced. Furthermore, current major-branded oils will give you plenty of miles without oil-related issues/failure. Just sold a 150K mi. 88 Accord run on regular oil, with plenty of engine life left, even if the rest of the car showed a bit more wear!
I can guarantee that they will pay on a claim, never.
True that very dark oil may be OK. Sorry to imply that color alone would reveal when to change, altho it helps.
Not true that very frequent changes only represent extra money. The drain plug threads may get stripped. The copper gasket (as in a SAAB 9000 or 900) may not get replaced and leak. The oil filter gasket may leak.
Not true that changing oil without changing the filter, when 20% of the oil that is in the filter contaminates the new oil, is really a problem. The 80% of new oil will give the mixture pretty reasonable properties.
The difference in viscosities is so great that you can tell just by shaking the oil bottle. Valvoline fully synthetic is much less viscous than petroleum oil, and gives you 10° F more on the low end of easy starting. Castrol fully synthetic was so much more viscous that, when I noticed it, I decided not to use it, and gave it to a car owner who is based in the CA desert.
Not true that no mfgrs. recommend oil more viscous than 10W-30. My Subaru SVX manual recommends 30, 40, 10W-50, 20W-40 and 20W-50 for desert or towing in hot areas. (Also 7,500 mile oil changes for normal service.) My SAAB 9000 Turbo manual recommends 10W-40 or 15W-40 for severe conditions. (Also 10,000 mile oil canges for normal service.)
The dealer is telling me that every 5000 miles it
requires maintenance including oil change, tire
rotation, valve adjustments and driveline bolt
torquing. The charge for this service is $105.00
every 5,000 mi. Is all this really necessary or
will Oil/Filter change suffice each 5,000 miles?
Valve adjustments in most engines today are not required. Plus, the last engine to need 5000 mile valve adjustments was the ole VW Beetle
Thanks!
Paul
You got one response in the new topic you created. Since this is the best place to discuss your question, I'm going to paste that response here:
#1 of 1: any stop n go is...(amora) Thu 23 Nov '00 (07:31 AM)
Good luck.Use the severe maintenance schedule. I drive
78 miles one way at 65-75 and on return
somestimes get stuck in bumper to bumper
traffic here in Los Angeles. THIS IS ULTRA
SEVERE DRIVING...
Regards
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
What's the story on fuel filter replacement.. mainly, how often? The owners manual doesn't mention it as maintenance item.
I was going to do it myself (@30K miles), but discovered replacement is not like with my '93 Voyager. The filter is a $27 plastic part with 3 hoses, and you gotta get above the gas tank! Has anyone done this... is it best left to a "pro"?
Thanks.
consider yourself lucky. in my f-150, you need a special tool to do the job. why fuel filters moved from a nice convenient place in the engine compartment to stuffed in the middle of the fuel line underneath the car is beyond me.
-Chris
It helps me keep my cars running and looking like new for at least 10 years and 200,000 miles.
Part of the core of PM is to follow the OEM "severe" schedule, regardless of the type of driving you do. The OEM is motivated to keep your vehicle together long enough to avoid paying warranty claims and still keep a steady supply of repeat customers. Go for the PM schedule the OEM thinks is really needed: "severe"
You can download my FREE PM checklists and see picture of my 12 year old Ford Taurus with 198,000+ miles maintained with PM at my site.
As for the fuel filter on the Caravan, it is INSIDE the fuel tank and is not a job for the shadetree mechanic.
best of luck
sony laptop and have the maintenance manuals.
However if someone is totally mechanically inclined, the repair manuals listed on back of most new vehicles owner's manual has an order form for the OEM manuals, they are quite expensive but will show you how to replace almost 100% of all
vehicle components.
regards,
Andy
Brake fluid replacement - every 2 years? I recalled that water typically collect in the brake fluid, so it should be flushed every 2 years.
Power Steering fluid replacement - every 2 years? Any reason why this should or should not be flushed? Does water collect in the system.
Engine Coolant - In the old days, it was recommended that the coolant be change every year, two if you add rust inhibitors. Has coolant improve over the years so that this is unnecessary. Is rust inhibitors really necessary? Should coolant system be flush?
Spark plug wire - I figure a change every 5 years would do the trick. Earlier if they look damaged.
Coolant hose and clamps - replace every 4 years for safety sake?
Battery - ???
Gas cap and coolant cap - I figure changing the coolant cap every 4 years would be sufficient. The emission inspection usually checks for a bad gas cap, so I'll wait until the mechanic complains.
Alignment - wait until there is a noticable problem either in the tire or the steering?
Waterpump - most people recommend replacing it with the timing belt, but most cars need timing belt changed at 60,000 miles. 60,000 seemed too low. Could it be done at every other timing belt change or 120,000 miles or will the pump give out before that?
As a car age, stuff will start breaking down. Rather than waiting until the car dies and leaves you in a bad neighborhood, can the item be replaced before they fail. For example, how long does the alternator last? What about starter motor, and distributor?
Thanks.
Paul
Owner's manual recommends (Besides oil change) only air filter and AC filter replacement.
When I called Honda dealer, they recommended transmission service, coolant flush, brake fluid flush, distributor cap replacement, and spark plug replacement.
Whom should I trust: owner's manual or Honda Dealer?
sermolin
Regards,
"Severe" driving condition is sometimes defined as either repeated trips under 5 miles; repeated trips under 10 miles when outside temperature is below freezing; driving in stop-and-go traffic in hot weather; extensive idling or low-speed driving for long distances (police cars, taxis); driving in dusty conditions; driving on rough, muddy or salted roads, or towing a trailer.
What's the recommendation in your part of the world?
Steve_
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
All of these vehicles are considered "extreme" duty and those are the intervals that Valvoline, Fleetguard and Cummins have come up with for us.
Ryan
I love GM cars' location of the fuel filter. they are right by the gas tank, easy to get to. I don't know why Toyota?Mazda put the filter inside the engine area, it is a #$%@ to get to the bottom part of the filter, anf if you have leak there, you set the engine on fire!
On Chrysler vans 96-01, the fuel filter also has three nylon hoses pressed onto the filter. There is no doubt that the reason is to make the filters cheaper when Chrysler buys them( eliminating three quick connects), but more expensive when we buy it (Have to buy all those press fitted formed nylons). The filter change however is easy. On Dodge ram and Dakota trucks, the filter (really a screen mesh) is inside the gas tank, and is not serviceable. I think 98-01 Honda Accords also have no fuel filters, and are using a tiny screen inside the tank.
I don't know all that much about car maintence since this is the first car I had to maintain. Any help would be appreciated :-)
Fuel filter is anywhere from 30k-90k, again look in owners manual.
that item, btw, that you leave out in the rain, drive in horrible conditions, survives our wonderful american roads, and you count on to start and run without a burp every time you get in it.
somehow, i'm missing something here. do you buy a house and never maintain it?
as far as people doing their own visual inspections, how many of you out there think you can tell me whether your brake lines are bad, or would even know where to look, for that matter. amoungst many other things.
-Chris
Also seems to me you could ask for a pencil-checked list of what was done to your car while you wait, and also ask for percentages of wear on brake pads.
last of all, if these items are checked off (or even listed on the repair order), you've got evidence.
Of course, if you distrust your dealer that much, you could have the same work done at your private garage. The idea is to get the work done and to do all of it!
i'm not even worried about "warrantee issues". i'm worried about "safety issues". yea, maybe brake line failure is a 1 in 10,000 issue in the first 30K. i don't want to be the 1 when i have to hammer on my brakes when some nimrod cuts me off on the turnpike. and so on.
to each his own. pm is a small price to pay, imo.
-Chris
yes, *some of us* can do these inspections by ourselves, no doubt... but 95% of the population (and i'm being generous, probably more) can't even be bothered to check the air pressure in their tires, let alone properly inspect a vehicle...
maybe i'm a fool (you know what they say about money soon parted), but it gives me a sense of well being when a competent bmw tech looks over my car every now and then... for me, it's money well spent...
-Chris
There must be easier and safer ways to save money.
however, you'll find it much easier to go through life if you aren't so paranoid that people are gonna screw you.
-Chris
Where do you live that you mistrust everyone so much? Are your dealerships controlled by the Russian mafia or something?
Also, most owners are not competent enough to service a modern car....oh, sure, they can do the oil and filters, but most don't know a warped brake rotor or bad suspension bushing from a doughnut. Not because they are unintelligent, by no means, but because they aren't trained to know what to look for.
They take too many shortcuts due to time/money issues. They cannot afford the time to drive it 10 miles to properly warm up the fluid. Of course, they could have measured how much was drained out as I would do!
Recently asked the Isuzu dealer how to change tanny fluid on a 97 Rodeo (no dipstick) . He kept showing me a picture from the service manual. I kept telling him that what is under this SUV is not what is in his book. He said I was crazy. Finally asked a mechanic who agreed with me. Haynes manual actually correct in this instance.
The list goes on. Mechanics and service reps not necessarily incompetent but they service too many years, makes and models of cars to know what each issue is whereas I know my cars better then they do!
Would somebody, please, tell Me if that is alright to drive with power-steering reservoir filled (for whatever reason, I do not know) with transmission(?) fluid (it is having red color) instead of pwr-steering fluid. Should I drain it away and fill up with a standard PS fluid, or there is no harm in using and mixing this two types of fluids?
the oil filter from the car. I was able to un-screw it ok but the problem was getting the filter
out of the car. Do i take it out through the top or the bottom of the car.
thanks for any help on this matter
Steve