Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It

fezo

What is it with people (approximately 99.9% of the population by my estimate) that don't know the difference between less and fewer?

From the "12 items or less" at the store counter to the "he hit 40 home runs last year but is on track for less this year," less where fewer should be is everywhere!

Mr_Shiftright

My pet peeve is "word inflation".

Now everyone is a genius or "brilliant".

My child is gifted.

No, your child is SMART. Mozart was gifted.

Every car is "classic".

Pretty soon, most adjectives will be meaningless, since they could stand for any object at any level of quality.

qbrozen

but less is fewer letters. so it makes for a smaller sign. ;b

mac24

I don't know if it's 'word inflation', but a very common misuse that irritates me is of the word "literally".

As in, "I literally died when I saw the latest gas prices".

qbrozen

my child is typically gifted on his bday and certain holidays. I just gifted him a wading pool last week, as a matter of fact. I brought it home in my classic 2005 Pacifica. It was at night, so the car's headlights were brilliant and lit up the road for me.

oh, and I mean this all very literally.

Kirstie_H

Amen! When my local grocery store remodeled, at least they remodeled the signs as well - 20 items or fewer. Someone was awake. However, this is an abuse that I encounter daily.
Rather simple - if the item(s) in question is/are specified, it's probably "fewer."
- This beer has fewer calories than that one ("calories" being specified)
- This beer weighs less than that one (no unit of measure specified)
*Sigh*

Shifty, I am surprised at the number of awe-inspiring events, people & products available. Everything is "awesome" rather than just plain old good.

mac24

When my local grocery store remodeled, at least they remodeled the signs as well

I wish mine would. We have sign that give the pricing for "2 litter" bottles of soda. :sick:

Kirstie_H

Well, maybe that's what they become after the consumer finishes drinking the contents.

mac24

:P

kyfdx

I agree with most of that..

Except for my child, of course.. He IS gifted.. lol.. :P

xwesx

Hahah! That was the best laugh all week!

Mr_Shiftright

Okay fair enough...just send us a recording of the symphony he composed when he was 5 and we're on board.

I think most kids are gifted when they are born and it's downhill from there... :P

kyfdx

Well... there is some truth to that. When he was three, I was certain he was a genius... Now that he is 13, he just seems to be a smart---. :surprise:

qbrozen

my kid was a genius at about 3 months old. Now at 15 months, I'm beginning to think he's average (although grandma says different). So at 3 years, he'll be downright dumb.

yes, yes, i'm going to hell. i know.

Kirstie_H

That's a shame. Makes it a lot harder to sell them later. Plus, it really reduces their after-school earning potential. For example, Nike pays $0.25/hour more than the Persian rug factory that my kids are stuck in.

I'll buy you a beer when we get there

cdnpinhead

everyone is above average. . .

seems to be where many exist.

Mr_Shiftright

I find that the nice thing about being mediocre is that one is always at one's best.

qbrozen

oh man!
you win!

qbrozen

which also means you rarely disappoint others.

Mr_Shiftright

I suppose I could disappoint someone who wanted me to be the best mediocre person I could be! :P

Karen_S

An elderly gentleman was having difficulty being intimate with his wife. He went to his doctor for help, but was told that even the modern medications would not work for him. In desperation he went to a medicine man that claimed to cure all ailments. The medicine man prepared a potion and told the old gentlemen to drink it. He then told him that when he wished to make love with his wife he should count out loud 1, 2, 3. The gentleman asked, "What do I do when I want to stop?" The medicine man replied, "Then you say 1, 2, 3, 4."

That night the old gentleman excitedly climbed into bed. He snuggled next to his wife and said, "One, two, three." His confused wife replied, "Why did you say 1, 2, 3 for?"

This is another example why you should never end a sentence with a preposition.

joe131

It may not be grammar, but it's still language.

A guy will be arguing to make a point with someone and right at the end of the argument they'll throw in one last barb.
It goes something like this, "...and not to mention that she was not even wearing underwear!"

Well, if he was not going to mention it, why did he? Just like a little kid who loves to say, "I told you so.", or a kid who always HAS to have the last word.

cdnpinhead

". . . .or a kid who always HAS to have the last word. . . ."

Or a spouse/significant other.

210delray

How about "skillset" instead of just plain old "skills?"

We all know about real toolboxes but how about virtual ones, as in "put this idea in your toolbox."

There are also some older ones, from the 70s, that managed somehow to hang on, like "prioritize" and "touch base." (Gag)

Then from our own business of cars, there's the word "conquest" used as an adjective, or worse, as a verb: "Toyota conquested some former GM buyers."

In the political world, I think "frankly" and "quite frankly" still hold sway, even though what follows may not be truthful!

Then in general use, we have "that said" or "having said that." What happened to good old "still" or "however?"

Finally, I can't stand the overuse of "fast forward," as in "Jack and Jill went up the hill in 1995. Fast forward to today, and they're married and have 4 kids, 2 dogs, 3 cats, and a snapping turtle."

fezo

"How about 'skillset' instead of just plain old 'skills?'"

I imagine that came about when we no longer had signs and instead had signage.

210delray

Good one! And when "use" wasn't good enough, and we had to "utilize."

user777

nice focus on stretch to increase your span. you're a high-bandwidth resource.

210delray

You forgot to include a proffer.

pat

Have we been annoyed with "moment in time" yet? Where the heck else would a "moment" be...

PF_Flyer

A moment in suspense? Just before you realize that shadow you are in is the piano coming down from above? :P

Kirstie_H

Ugh, that hit a nerve. I am going to have to throw a memory chip at the next person who asks about my "bandwidth," as in, "do you have enough bandwidth to take on this project, or are you too busy?" Maybe just a public mocking will suffice.

Alongside "not to mention," I present "it goes without saying." Well, I guess it doesn't anymore, does it?

PF_Flyer

Isn't the correct response to that, "Do I LOOK like I have enough bandwidth??" accompanied by a menacing glare? :shades:

stever

Let's run it up the flagpole Bob....

I read with interest all the letters to the editors that start with I read with interest.

PF_Flyer

Same with letters to the editor that start out... In my opinion...

Well, yes, I got that I'm reading your opinion without needing to have it explained to me.

I think all righthtinking people in this country are sick
and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.
I'm certainly not! And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

-Monthy Python's Matching Tie & Handkerchief

xwesx

Absolutely, Kirstie! But then, that goes without saying, does it not?

xwesx

Seriously, now. The phrase "that goes without saying" does not mean that it was pointless for the person to say it. The meaning is more cause and effect. For example, let us say we are discussing an engineering design and a specification is laid out. Later on, someone else specifies another requirement that, implicitly, was included in the first design specification. Yes, the requirement was important, but it "went without saying" because it would have happened even if that person had not specified it. *shrugs* Another way of saying it.... "that is a given." :sick:

210delray

Those letters to the editor remind me of the standard eBay opening line, "You are bidding on..."

Ya think?

madmanmoo

I just wanted to say hello to you folks. Please destroy my horrible yous uv grammer and spellin. :mad:

-Moo

Kirstie_H

Aw, moo - we sometimes don't pick on other members unless they invite us to usually.

tmart

It's using their, there and they're incorrectly, along with your and you're.

user777

or my parents vs. my parent's vs. your parents'

pat

That drives me crazy along with the apostrophe misusage user777 mentions.

I posted this earlier, but lately this is really becoming rampant in what I hear and what I read. The thing that gets under my skin the most these days is using "Sue and I" when it should be "Sue and me" as in "Tell Sue and I about it." If you can't say "tell I about it" YOU CAN'T SAY "TELL SUE AND I ABOUT IT."

I mean really, how hard is that to understand? I guess just as hard as when to use apostrophes and when to use they're, their or there. :P

stever

I always have trouble with the "is it Edmunds' or Edmunds's" stuff. Apostrophes are supposedly dying and good riddance. :P

I don't care so much about being grammatically correct so long as the meaning is clear. The data/datum argument for example - who cares - datum jangles my ears.

"Sue and I" doesn't usually bug me either and one of these decades "Sue and me" may sound as odd as one of Chaucers Canterbury Tales does now.

(didn't miss that apostrophe one whit now did you?)

pat

"Sue and I" is correct if you want to say "Sue and I are going shopping." It is incorrect if you want to say "Jack invited Sue and I to dinner."

The key is if you eliminate the "Sue and" is the statement still grammatically correct?

"I am going shopping" is correct. "Jack invited I to dinner" is not. If you don't see that, well, I really can't help you... :P

and yes, I did indeed miss that apostrophe; obviously the correct grammar is "Chaucer's Canterbury Tales." :shades:

pat

Another thing that bugs me is the widespread usage of the term "typo" to mean "oops, I typed something that is wrong (but I believed it when I typed it)."

The origin of the term is "typographical error" and the origin of that is when there used to be actual type-setting that produced newspapers, magazines, etc. The type-setting involved a mechanical process where a person chose which letters to set into type before that type-set page was passed on to production.

(Yeah, I've actually seen this happen, dating myself big time.)

The term typographical error meant that the type-setter had hit the wrong key. It did not mean that the person who authored the piece, article, column, whatever had made an error.

But today it seems everyone excuses an actual error with "oh, that was a typo" when it clearly was just a mistake. Maybe this is just one more way of avoiding personal responsibility, eh? :P

fezo

"It's using their, there and they're incorrectly, along with your and you're."

It's too, to, two much.......

When did everybody start spelling "lose" as "loose?" "They are going to loose me as a customer."

user777

writey tiety, leftey lucy.

Kirstie_H

"I need to loose weight" is my favorite. It conjures up all sorts of images of fat flopping around as it's being loosed. Blech.

Another recent peeve of mine is the complete mis-use of the word "literally" by the media, which word now apparently means "figuratively." e.g., "Matt, it is LITERALLY raining cats & dogs out there." Seriously? Because someone is going to get hurt, and I have no idea what we're going to do with the excess (and likely injured) pets.

The latest misuse I noted was by CNN, in reporting the bridge collapse in Minneapolis. "That section of the bridge is quite literally vertical." Oh, it was at about a 60-degree angle relative to the ground below, but it most certainly was NOT "literally" vertical.

qbrozen

I always have trouble with the "is it Edmunds' or Edmunds's" stuff.

Well, I don't want to look it up, but it SHOULD be Edmunds's stuff because there is only 1 Edmunds, although it has an "s" on the end. If you use Edmunds', that would indicate you've got 2 or more Edmunds who have stuff.

And this is why the apostrophe CAN'T die! It is very important for clarity's sake. And, after all, as I've stated here before, it is the crux of the biscuit!

;b

stever

Without delving too deep into the Chomsky morass of pragmatic syntax, I hold to the proposition that English is a freely malleable language; while there are rules for convenience ("accepted usage") there's no correct or incorrect grammatical way to speak or write it. Ergo sum to whit my Chaucer reference yo? Even the accepted rules of English are contradictory, causing ESL speakers much grief.

I have no love for the L'Académie française and appreciate the way that English evolves through usage. What's incorrect today may be correct in the next decade.

My journalism friend believes in more strict adherence to grammar rules for the sake of consistency. My carpenter and engineering friends all have their own language subsets that often don't make sense out of context, but have developed for clarity and convenience. That may be fine within the confines of a profession but doesn't make Sue and I any less correct for communicating with Bob in our own way. What we care about is whether he gets our drift.

I usually say "a SUV" btw.