Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It

jimbres

"Utilize" is the product of a civil service mentality. (I was a government employee back in the 1970s & noticed an institutional fondness for "-ize" verbs.) If it disappeared tomorrow, no one would miss it. It says in three syllables what "use" says in one.

mac24

Here's a couple I see a lot of (and wish I didn't).

First, 'affect' and 'effect' seem to be used interchangably these days, even though they have different meanings.
For example, "Missing school will affect your chances of employment", and " Your dead end job is the effect of a neglected education".

Another in the same vein is 'insure' and 'ensure'.
"Taking a cab will ensure you get home safely", and "You need to insure your health now that you're getting older.
Those two used to get mixed a lot, but these days I rarely see 'ensure' at all!

stever

Ensure has been co-opted to mean a "nursing home" drink, so no one wants to use it in conversation.

mac24

LOL......that didn't occur to me.

stever

Go Lightly into the AARP years my friend.

tmart

What do you mean "Go Lightly..." The AARP years aren't for sissies or wimps!

stever

I haven't had the pleasure, but there's a pre-test procedure that involves a gallon of Go Lightly ... well, you and I both can recognize a '53 Buick Special at first glance so we'll probably get to enjoy the test soon enough so let's not go there. :shades:

pat

so no one wants to use it in conversation

Boy, did you screw THAT up. The correct way to say that is "so no one wants to utilize it while conversating."

What's wrong with you?

:shades:

jlbl

stever

I'll ensure that I rectify and emend in future.

210delray

"In (the) future" is out also, now it's "going forward."

stever

I do rather enjoy the British way of saying someone went "to hospital." It gives one an Anglophile quality to their speech to omit those extraneous thes.

More tea?

(grammar checked by Word; no errors, right?)

mac24

It's not a universal rule in British English though; "to theater" or "to bathroom" doesn't work at all.

Here's a couple more. Instead of sailboating or horseback riding, the British tend to go sailing or horse riding. The fact that it's in a boat or on the back of a horse is assumed to be implied (or maybe just assumed ).

pat

Yes, but wouldn't it be "to loo"? Much better than "to bathroom", I say.

alltorque

"To hospital" originates from the time when there was only one hospital in the kingdom. We'll probably return to that, sorry, state of affairs in the near future. :mad:

Of course horse riding implies riding on the nag's back. You chaps in The Colonies are pretty damned inventive but how else do you regularly ride horses ?

Going sailing is merely typical British economy, (laziness). "Sailing" covers both sail and power; the former being for gentlemen and the latter for cads.

Tally Ho, pip pip.

stever

I was afraid you were going to say toodle-loo.

houdini1

A little leeway here please. This story has a point.

An old man, suffering from impotence, is granted one wish from a Genie. The man wishes for one last night of romance with his wife of many years.

The Genie instructs him to just say 1,2,3 and he will instantly be ready and after he finishes he or his wife must say 1,2,3,4 to return him to his normal state for evermore.

That night, in bed, the man takes a deep breath and says 1,2,3. Instantly he is ready. His wife turns over and says "What did you say 1,2,3 for"?

And that, my friends is why you should never end a sentence with a preposition!!

tmart

Well said!

xwesx

alltorque

Heaven forfend that one would use "Toodle-loo" as a farewell. TTFN is so much nicer.

(Ta Ta For Now). It's been a short-hand sign-off for donkeys years.

Pet hates ? There, Their and They're. Not interchangeable but a lot of Brits seem to have trouble defining the correct one to use

And............where do Boat and Ship chage over ? Why is a submarine a Boat ?

stever

Why is a kayak a canoe in British usage?

PF_Flyer

The Historic Ships Committee have designated a vessel below 40 tons and 40 feet in length as a boat. However, submarines and fishing vessels are always known as boats whatever their size.

Now the REAL definition of a boat is "a hole in the surface of the water into which money is thrown" :shades:

Maybe we'll have a little boat chat tonight!

The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

alltorque

Canoe is, I suspect, derived from the phrase used by observers watching the inventor take the first one down to the water's edge : "Can you believe what he's going to do next ?" Shortened to "Can you" and thence to its modern derivative.

I think kayak is merely the North American version of a similar incident : "Okay, Jack, now what ya gonna do" ? The "Okay Jack" became " 'kay Jack" and then normal verbal economy crept in.

Anything else I can help you with ?

Loved the boat definition, by the way. A Scottish friend who had a 1/4 Ton racing yacht always said that sailing was "Just standing under a cold shower tearing up £50 notes". If you've ever sailed the coast of Scotland you'll understand the cold shower bit. Ah the joys of coastal sailing with a road map, (well he was Scottish and charts are expensive). We never ever got lost, though. :shades:

tmart

that the two happiest days for a boat owner is the day he buys it, and the day he sells it!!

bryan

This "why is this stuff this stuff" made me think of a song by Linda Eder, can't remember the name of the song, but she asks almost at the end of it "Why is RuPaul a guy". Makes me laugh each time I hear it.

stever

Life is a cosmic gaff.

Why don't elephants fly?
Why are high heels so high?
Why is Ru Paul a guy?
Baby, don't ask me why

--Linda Eder, Don't ask me why. (link)

bryan

That's the one. I kept playing it over and over in my head, and now that you've given me the words, I've got it. I'll start humming it out load now and see if I can't pass it off to someone else

The CD is"It's Time" IIRC--masterful lyrics and music. I believe her ex-husband (Frank Wildhorn) who wote the music for that and several other of her CDs (I have them all) is somehow reincarnated from the 40's big band era. I noticed that there are a couple of different lyricists involved, and again, very clever and well done.

Mr. Wildhorn wrote the Broadway musical Jeckyll and Hyde, and Ms. Eder was in the original cast I believe. Also, didn't she win Star Search back in the day? I saw her in concert (Marvin Hamlisch conducting) at the Kennedy Center, Wash DC a few years ago. It was on Valentine's day, the theme was love songs, and she sang a lot of the classic standards. When she did some of her original songs, her own band was featured with the orchestra. Had to have been one of the most enjoyable concerts I've ever had the pleasure to attend.

Sorry for rambling......

stever

TEACHER: Millie, give me a sentence starting with 'I.'

MILLIE: I is..

TEACHER: No, Millie..... Always say, 'I am.'

MILLIE: All right... 'I am the ninth letter of the alphabet.'

Mr_Shiftright

1. "The exception PROOFS the rule", not "proves the rule".

The latter statement makes no sense whatsoever.

To "proof" something is to test it.

2. "I could care less" (than I do) , not "I couldn't care less". If you couldn't care less, then that implies that you are sympathetic----not the intention of the comment.

qbrozen

"I could care less" (than I do) , not "I couldn't care less". If you couldn't care less, then that implies that you are sympathetic----not the intention of the comment.

Actually, I beg to differ. The phrase is typically used to mean "I care so little that I could NOT possibly care any less."

If you could care less, then that means you care somewhat.

mac24

2. "I could care less" (than I do) , not "I couldn't care less". If you couldn't care less, then that implies that you are sympathetic----not the intention of the comment.

I guess it's a 'mute' point then.

Oh, don't get me started!

Mr_Shiftright

Well yeah one could certainly interpret it both ways. Maybe that's the problem. actually. I kinda like the idea that there's potential for caring even less---it seems more passionate somehow. :P But sure, both ways, point taken. I wonder which version is more popularly used?

Very often we wish that moot points were mute, don't we?

kyfdx

I think most people say, "I could care less", when what they mean is, "I couldn't care less", or as I interpret it, "I couldn't care any less".

And... just for Kirstie..... """", ''', :: ,,,,

alltorque

Over here in U.K. the common phrase is "I couldn't care less", signifying a complete lack of interest..........."not interested", "do as you please" etc I think the majority of Brits are familiar with "I could care less" from the ever-increasing amount of Americanisms we are exposed to, (along with American-English (mis)spellings), from the media and internet. We know/assume it means the same as our version but we don't use it.

At least, I have never heard it used over here just as I have never heard the U.K. version in America.

Just my two pen'orth. (two-penny worth).

PF_Flyer

Chat and texting have killed it... but beyond that, just common misuse and misconstruationizing :P drive me nuts

Two I hear a LOT here in PA (and I haven't noticed it much anywhere else) is the butchering of some common phrases used to describe when someone is giving someone a hard time or taking it easy on them. For my entire life it has always been:

He's giving him a lot of flak

and

Cut him some slack OK?

For some reason around here, slack is used in both of those sentences. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

Probably a reference to the phrase "slackening the reins" or some such.

I have a friend who came to America as a young man from Serbia. He just butchers common English phrases.

Among my favorites:

"You made your bed...now WEAR it!"

"Let's sit down and talk Turkish"

kyfdx

Yes.. I'm starting to hear slack substituted for flak.. complete opposite meaning..

I think it's because people don't read any more... It's all based on what they hear..

Tough row to hoe... No one gets that right... :surprise:

tallman1

And it is amazing how often I see someone quoted in the paper as saying, "All of the sudden..." instead of "All of a sudden..." I have no idea where that came from, although I've never actually HEARD anyone say it. Perhaps I just don't notice.

pat

"supposably"

Drives me nuts. :shades:

Oh, and so does "lil" for little.

But I better not let myself get started or I'll never stop. I really do hate the rampant abuse of the language these days.

jlbl

I really do hate the rampant abuse of the language these days.

I thought that abuse was only perpetrated to Spanish in Spain. :sick:

If further proceeding this way may be language will be shortened to original "mms" and "clicks" around the world.

Regards,
Jose

pat

Jose, I am always impressed with your command of the English language given that Spanish is your first. Thanks for your efforts!

Pat

Kirstie_H

Thanks, kyfdx. I'll hand out those extra punctuation marks to those in need.

I was in Minnesota last week, and had a 3-hour conversation with my college roommate (really, 3 hours) about language peeves. The big one in Minnesota:
"She borrowed it to me."

Try as I might, I can't get my head to accept that.

madmanmoo

Perhaps "Lent" is reserved exclusively for religious holidays.

huffmanshhr1

Hi there!
I was just "cruising" around Edmunds and felt the need to comment on some of your much older posts. I believe the posts go back as far as 2007. I was so amused I was laughing out loud, and I mean roflmao. I am a bit of a grammar freak, but just a little bit of one compared to you! It has been 15 years or more since I was in a school or work setting. The pet peeves you pointed out made me ashamed at how lazy I have become! I had to realize it first though.I have,slowly but surely ,conformed to the improper and( far too )casual use of grammar. It used to come so naturally to me that I "tested out" of English and writing classes back then. Now after several years of getting lazy and sloppy, I have had to rewrite this 3 times! Literally!! I use ALOT of ...'s and abbreviations, and alot of text talk!!! OMG . :sick: I should be shot looking back at some of these posts!LMAO
I am happy for this though! Unlike todays youth, I am not WANTING to use all the shorter ways of doing things! I am not happy with the mentality of todays kids. "They know what they mean so whats the difference"? Thats what I just got from the 19 year old in my house! He just asked me who I was trying to impress?? Thanks to you and a couple different others that you had some awesome Banter with, I have remembered how much I truly love to write and to write well. Maybe I can teach this love of the language to my 11 year old before its too late!
God Bless
Carol Huffman

mac24

I don't have a problem with 'text speak' as long as the application is relevant, i.e. when texting or in a chat room. Neither do I take issue with abbreviations, as I generally tend to write as I speak in informal situations such as this, and it would appear very stilted to write "I shall not" when in reality I would say "I shan't".

The things that irritate me most are screeds of text without punctuation or capitalization that end up looking like a word puzzle, and incorrect spelling due to a combination of ignorance and poor pronunciation. Examples seen regularly in the forums I frequent are 'sodder' and 'sauder' in place of 'solder', 'break' for 'brake', 'peddle' or 'petal' instead of 'pedal', and the one that really makes me go "Arrrgh!" is 'wench' instead of 'winch'. :surprise:

However, I know my writing style is not immune from causing irritation in others............(especially when constructing an ellipsis with more than three periods)..................and I've often wondered if Grammar Girl is Kirstie's alter ego?
Regardless, it's a fun read.

alltorque

Carol, I'm with you on this. As an old-timer I too am sometimes apalled by modern us of language. We consider ourselves blessed with our two young 'uns, (ages 35 and 32 so not, perhaps, exactly "young" any more), who both seem to have struck a nice balance between correct English and modern English.

One of my pet peeves is the use of "kids" instead of "children". I was always taught that kids were the offspring of goats. However, language evolves and I'm now more or less over this particular peeve. Having said that, I have met some children where the use of the word kids could be considered wholly appropriate.

jlbl

Having said that, I have met some children where the use of the word kids could be considered wholly appropriate.

I cannot agree more with you on that purposeful use of the language.
"Cabrito" conveys in Spanish a mischievous shade when used to depict anyone.

Regards,
Jose

Kirstie_H

I have a few issues with Grammar Girl and some of her more lax attitudes toward evolving language; nevertheless, I do think it'd be a fantastic Halloween costume for me.

and the one that really makes me go "Arrrgh!" is 'wench' instead of 'winch'

Um... what'd you call me? :shades:

xwesx

Hahahahaha; touché!

tallman1

and alot of text talk!!!

OMG!! My biggest grammar pet peeve... "a lot" as one word!! lol