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UAW has surprised coming. While Bush reached out, as soon as the democrats have regained power (now) they undid the rules republicans put in about committees and such that gave the minority party some power in congress (worked well for Bush while Dems were in power) but Pelosi and Reid are having none of sharing while the dems are in power. So Bush's reaching out hasn't done any good. The UAW seems to think that the dems are going to give them the advantage after Jan 20. Something gives me the feeling that Obama has already backed off on the miracle cures and promises from when he was campaigning. He may be just enough of a loose canon for the dems that UAW may not get overwhelming support just because they blindly contribute to dems and Obama. The tide of public opinion and Obama's need to try to show he has answers for the economy may mean UAW gives rather than gives.
I'm watching to see how the other union contributor (NEA/AFT) does as far as getting since education is a states rights issue unlike the UAW's ideas of a government contribution to their money pots. I.E., I don't think Black Lake UAW golf resort will become a national park.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would give mismanagement the nod especially in respect to having given the overpaid in benefits to UAW workers too much future financial gain rather than paying for their current worth in the past. Yup, it was management's fault as long as we overlook UAW's part in the whole process.
That is exactly correct. Wagoner is a wimp and probably a closet UAW member. Look at his 15 years of bending over for the UAW.
Jimbres Wrote:
I guess so, because we were discussing Cadillac. Sometimes I can't figure out what you're trying to say, DD
That would describe most of his responses. He cannot justify what the UAW has done so he throws up a smokescreen pointing to some totally irrelevant political scam. I am on the NO BAILOUTS PERIOD side with you... Mike Benoit has almost convinced me I should switch to Libertarian Party. Seeing how the Republicans are RINO Socialist in disguise.
62 wrote:
He actually made less than $2 million last year per the restructuring plan submitted. All those millions of stock options are worthless.
There you go throwing in facts to confuse the issue. That would bring Wagoner down to only about 18 to 1 over the UAW workers. Way below the average even in the UAW hey days of the 1960s. I would not take the job of trying to keep 70,000 whining prima donna UAW workers happy for that piddly amount. Not to mention the half million retirees that have not gotten the word that they killed the golden goose and have already eaten him for Christmas dinner.
Jimbres:
I'd prefer to discuss the criminal marketing & design blunders that led to the loss of a hugely profitable franchise.
I don't think anyone with half a brain would argue that GM management dropped the ball on innovation many years ago. They have really not done a lot to excite the market in 40 years. They have lived off of the loyalty buyers. Waking up and realizing they have lost over half their market share should have got them moving. It did not. I think they are dead in the US. They went from over 50% in 1962 to 22% in 2007. Most of that was to Toyota and Honda. I don't believe it is because the American people like Japan better than they do the USA. We want the best vehicle for the money. When you add 10% to the cost of manufacturing a vehicle to pay for past sins. That has to come from somewhere. And it looks like GM decided to skimp on parts to pay the UAW retirees. They tossed the white collars under the bus.
Much of the $66 billion in GM debt was to bring the Pension Fund into compliance. If the market continues to tank. GM will not be able to borrow enough to keep the pension fund solvent. We just loaned them another $14 billion bringing their debt to $80 billion or more. GM collapse is not a result of the current financial crisis. It has been going down hill since the 1990s. GM and the UAW have had plenty of time to address the issues and fix them.
In 2003 GM's pension fund needed an infusion from the largest corporate debt offering in history. And the cost of providing health coverage for 1.1 million GM workers, retirees and dependents is estimated to be $5.6 billion this year. Their coverage is enviable -- at most, small co-payments for visits to doctors and for pharmaceuticals but no deductibles or monthly premiums.
GM says health expenditures -- $1,525 per car produced; there is more health care than steel in a GM vehicle's price tag -- are one of the main reasons it lost $1.1 billion in the first quarter of 2005. Ford's profits fell 38 percent, and although Ford had forecast 2005 profits of $1.4 billion to $1.7 billion, it now probably will have a year's loss of $100 million to $200 million. All this while Toyota's sales are up 23 percent this year and Americans are buying cars and light trucks at a rate that would produce 2005 sales almost equal to the record of 17.4 million in 2000.
In 1962 half the cars sold in America were made by GM. Now its market share is roughly 25 percent. In 1999 the Big Three -- GM, Ford, Chrysler -- had a 71 percent market share. Their share is now 58 percent and falling.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/29/AR2005042901385.- html
You have touched on a couple interesting issues. First the schools. I was driving past our local middle school and a member of our church was changing the sign out in front. I stopped and found out he has volunteered to change the signs weekly at all three local schools. They have cut back on maintenance and do not have a paid Union person to do that job. This is a fairly affluent town.
Black Lake presents another idea. I doubt it would get support as a National Park. It could be donated to the State as the Walter Reuther state park if it is as nice as some here say it is. The UAW could bid on the hotel and golf concession and solve their red ink issue. Many private parks and historic places get donated to the state. They could incorporate a UAW museum as a tourist attraction. The UAW did play a minor role in helping the working class in this country.
Today, they have Nissan (Datsun), Toyota, Honda, VW (Audi), Mercedes, Jaguar, Volvo, Suzuki, Hundai/Kid,
all lined up to sell cars here. Have I forgotten some brands (I know Jaguar Volvo are Ford and being sold)?
In 1962 other brands competing with Chrysler, Ford, and GM were...?
American Motors? Studebaker/Packard (on their way out),
VW.
Mercedes (barely),
Opal, --who can add to this list.
There weren't many and penetration was low for AMC and Studebaker.
As more brands became accepted as the foreign cars came in, the US brands would lose market share. I'm not sure how I can put the UAW into that. Didn't they have some big strikes before 1962 which of course cost more for building the US brand cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've wondered the exact opposite: why do we tax corporations at all? If we taxed only the profits made by the owners (stock holders) on dividends, stock sales and on the incomes of the employees wouldn't that make more sense.
I don't understand why capital gains (to stock holders) are taxed at such a low rate, isn't that income, too? It is a shame that work is taxed at a higher rate than getting money from someone else's work.
We do have just about the highest corporate tax rate in the World. Good question, good points.
I don't think it was an issue until the imports started building cars in the USA for less money than the Domestics. Add to that the open ended health care coverage for working and retired UAW workers and it is Unsustainable costs.
Warran Buffet, supporter of "The One" said it: these numbers are unsustainable.
Period.
They have to declare bankruptcy, send those union contracts into a shredder, and start all over negotiating. And, I don't see Obama pushing card check either. I think, just as one poster said, he's a loose canon. We really don't know him at all.
From the Philadelphia newspaper:
2.8 Million Jobs Vanish
The group of some 50 or more workers marched up and down outside the conference center in chilly but sunny weather, chanting such slogans as “Bush says cut back, we say fight back” and holding signs including “No millionaire left behind” and “Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign.”
The UAW, which made landmark givebacks on wages and health benefits in its 2007 negotiations with the companies, has called the conditions attached to the loans unfair and promised to work with the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama to have them removed from the loan agreements. GM officials said talks with the UAW about further concessions has begun. -- Reuters-second story
All these stories here are interesting. Consumer Reports has the same bypass excuse however saying they're just not as reliable.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
During the 1950s and 1960s, UAW members became one of the best paid groups of industrial workers in the country — placing them solidly in the middle class of American society. By the end of this period, changes in the global economy, competition from European and Japanese automobile makers, and management decisions at the U.S. automakers had already started to significantly reduce the profits of the major auto makers and set the stage for the drastic changes in the 1970s.
The UAW disaffiliated from the AFL-CIO on July 1, 1968, after Reuther and AFL-CIO President George Meany could not come to agreement
I still don't find a list of strikes through the 50s and 60s and 70s against the automakers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
UAW Timeline
A couple more are mentioned in this story. (Flint Journal)
Just an example is the bailout by Bush. Why would he bother other than trying to help out the economy. And that is not good enough for the UAW. When will the Members get it through their thick skulls. There is NO MORE MONEY FOR GOLD PLATED HEALTH CARE. Times are tough and the members and the retirees are going to have to start carrying some of the load. If they think that Obama has a health care plan that they get for FREE. I got another bridge for sale. Obama and Hillary campaigned on the same platform. Universal Health Care with premiums to be paid by those that are working. That means the workers get to pay for themselves AND those that are unemployed. No freebies for the High paid UAW workers.
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Regards,
OW
Go ahead and blame the UAW for burning your turkey too.
Agreed. This is fundamental. Simplistically, why is this?:
Market Share is low because vehicles are not competitive.
Vehicles are not competitive because quality and content are not competitive.
Quality and content are not there because they cost more.
Costs were reduced because company has very high costs.
Company has very high costs because of restrictive, expensive contracts.
Company has restrictive, expensive contracts because without them company would have lost $billions in very long term strikes, might have gone bankrupt.
Company had risk of very expensive long term strikes because of power of UAW.
Company has UAW because they are laying over a barrel and union has too much control.
See?
Could you back up your statement "Management blames UAW" with anything in the last, oh say, 5 years or even longer? I do remember the management issuing statements that they lost xx amounts of dollars during the last strike but nothing that says they blame the UAW for all their problems.
Regards,
OW
I keep hearing legacy costs are killing us from GM management. That sounds like they are blaming the UAW. Those are some of the costs negotiated by the UAW with strikes. Wagoner has been careful to word his statements so that he does not offend the UAW. If not for the Union votes there would be NO bailout. Congress is not giving GM money because they like the company. It is pandering to the working class voters.
The worse thing is that it is affecting the U.S. taxpayer! Why should the U.S. taxpayer have to fund an agreement between GM and its workers, when they made an agreement they can't afford to give (the company); or afford to accept (taking too much for GM to be viable)?
To me the common sense solution that almost every other business would have to do is: 1) reduce the pay and benefits of retirees or active personnel to what the company can afford, or 2) the company goes bankrupt and possibly all workers and retirees lose everything.
All of the problems GM and all the parties can be fixed by rewriting the paper contracts they have. They need to live within their income. It's not the taxpayers problem to guarantee the excessive promises that were made between GM and its workers (past and present).
Same for carspace pages.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mine would say..."I thought I told you NOT to use any of the bailout money to invest in Madof's fund?? Now we'll get pennies on the dollar but at least it's easier to hide the loss this time!. What do I ride in on my next trip to Washington to ask for more funding in March? The Camaro is delayed, you Dolt!!"
Regards,
OW
Nice captions y'all but the idea is to post them in the blog. Otherwise Sneakers will yell at me. :shades:
My condolences.
Maybe Microsoft could unionize and the UAW could write the next verison of IE? :P :P
The UAW wins one. Only took six months or so (plus a year long work stoppage before that). I have no idea if this plant is making ball bearings for the auto industry or not - looks like a lot of Ag stuff, but maybe they do some car transmission bearings.
I guess nothing is going to change until total failure results. The UAW is just not going to back down from their beliefs in their entitlements.
I can hear the whining and crying now when the retirees get their pension cut and have to go on Medicare like the rest of US poor retirees. It is not like they have not had plenty of opportunity to help GM right the ship. They just keep going on strike poking more holes in the sides. The UAW is protesting the bailout that will keep GM from C11 another couple months. The UAW is giving Unions a huge BLACK EYE. People see their ignorance and think all union workers are that ungrateful.
UAW stupidity
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/detroits-downturn-its-the-productivity-stupid/
This from a supervisor of UAW employees.
One afternoon I was helping oversee the plant while upper management was off site. The workers brought an RV into the loading yard with a female “entertainer” who danced for them and then “entertained” them in the RV. With no other management around, I went to labor relations for assistance. As a twenty-five-year-old woman, I was not about to try to break up a crowd of fifty rowdy men. The labor relations rep pulled out the work rules and asked me which of the rules the men were breaking. I read through the rules and none applied directly, of course. Who wrote work rules to cover prostitutes at lunch? The only “legal” cause I had was an unauthorized vehicle and person and that blame did not fall on the union workers who were being “entertained” but on the security guards at the gate. Not one person suffered any consequence.
"Hey, we don't suck as much as we thought we did.".....
I supervised a loading dock and 21 UAW workers who worked approximately five hours per day for eight hours’ pay. They could easily load one-third more rail cars and still maintain their union-negotiated break times, but when I tried to make them increase production ever so slightly they sabotaged my ability to make even the current production levels by hiding stock, calling in sick, feigning equipment problems, and even once, as a show of force, used a fork lift truck and pallets and racks to create a car part prison where they trapped me while I was conducting inventory. The reaction of upper management to my request to boost production was that I should “not be naive.”
The same thing goes on at Delphi with workers getting done in 4 hours and going home. I have no problem with piece work, as long as QC is maintained. But the UAW would scream if that was implemented. The lazy workers would make very little and the go getters would make the big bucks. That is what much of the construction industry does. My mom and grandmother worked piece work in a Union sewing shop all during the war and after.
The UAW is putting on a show for the rest of the nation, and they are too stupid to see how ridiculous they are...a stupid politician, if not in my district, I can't vote out...but the UAW???...all I have to do is look Japanese next car, and they are one step closer to history...
Talk about the "sheep" or "lemming" mentality, they are truly reinforcing what I learned about them in the 1980s...and, no, I am not living in the past...THEY are living in the past, as the world really has changed, and they are, to put it mildly (and not insult the mentally handicapped) acting like spoiled brats throwing tantrums...
Don't be surprised if this BS of theirs loses them even MORE customers, when even the ignorant layman (not us intelligent car-guys/gals) realizes what the union is and what it is good for...nada...
It's the UAW way. They are rallying the hatred already....instead of spending time developing themselves for new opportunities. The US auto industry is not where I would be spending my time defending a career right about now.
Instead of being grateful to get a handout, they blindly fight for a lost cause. The bailout is really cloaked bankruptcy and yet they rally around fair wages when cuts are the new game with new rules delivered by Uncle Sam.
Regards,
OW
I love my Toyotas!
Right on.
he needs to keep telling me how "well-trained" and "skilled" and "intelligent" these UAW workers are, because from what I see I can assure you I will forget unless he keeps reminding me...
I say: if the UAW workers are "well trained", "skilled" and "intelligent", then I am "genius" "superman" and "god" :P :P :P
I'm looking forward to another strike by march 31st.
That is why I am just a fuzzy little lawyer in my own little corner, trying my best to communicate my feelings, and always falling short in my ability to do so...
Even my emoticons are shy, reserved, and withdrawn, just like me...
Who are you and what have you done with our beloved Bob???
Bob always has clear opinions about the UAW.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Toyota pay's it's employee's $22.00 per hr Maint. $30.00 per hr Just laid off 600 temp. employee's in KY that were being paid $13.00 per hr.
Now they are laying off full times employee's. So whats next? Toyota say we must lower you're wage to be able to pay share holders? for the good of the company. If this is done and the economy gets even wores are they go to lower it even further? SO HOW LONG CAN YOU GO?
If the company you work for ask you to take a pay cut and then few month's later they lay you off how while you feel?