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NO BLEEDING WAY THEY UNIONIZE!
Regards,
OW
That is another problem...TENURE...the word, and the concept, should be removed from our lexicon...why should ANYONE be guaranteed employment simply because they have managed not to get fired in the last 5 years???...tenure for teachers, just like seniority for UAW folks, has led to the worst wave of mediocrity in the last 50 years...
If I had children, and I don't, they would NEVER see the inside of a public school...I KNOW there are good, dedicated teachers in the public system, and they, too, must fight the system to try and teach the kids...but the system is biased aginst them...can only teach as fast as the slowest kid in class, even tho that kid belongs in the "slow class"...but Mommy and Daddy want to "mainstream" the kid, even tho his abilities are inferior...so, the system bends to the minority and screws the majority of the class, who get bored because of the slow pace due to the class idiot...plus, they cannot teach excellence in class, because that implies winners and losers...so every kid gets an award, or games are played so nobody loses...until they get hit by real life, then their (artificial) self-esteem gets shattered in an instant, because they actually find out what it means to LOSE...
When I went to school, there were three "levels", called "tracking" I believe...you had the Honors kids (brilliant) the Regular kids (average to smart) and the Slower kids (often called the Dumb class)...to think of putting a Dumb kid in Honors would be suicide, but it seems that if Mommy wants her stupid, worthless idiot in Honors, it almost seems that the school does not say no, so everybody suffers...then, if her dumb kid cannot perform and fails, she screams "discrimination" when the problem is "stupidity"...
Those kids who grow up in school without discipline are doomed in the real world, so they have no idea how to respond when someone says "No!"...they become the psychological cases who need constant therapy, simply because their world never heard the word NO...
Marsha, if you get kids, take them to India. The education system there is less public and more private. It is extremely competitive and the grades(actual numbers, not A, B, C or F) you earn are spoken out aloud in the class when you get your paper back. A kid knows where he stands in the class, and others also know where you stand in the class.
Unions ensure that their workers have health insurance. They also support programs that offer health coverage to uninsured kids and universal health care for all. No one should lose everything because they get sick. More health coverage supports hospitals and clinics by ensuring that not only will union workers be able to pay their bills, but that all bills for services will be paid.
In Montana, 47 percent of nonunion workers have pension plans, compared with 80 percent of union workers. As elderly adults, these union members will be more financially secure. Self-sufficient retirees are a benefit to every community. They volunteer and contribute to local charities.
Union workers enjoy greater job safety. Most unions provide comprehensive OSHA training. This reduces lost work time, medical bills, disability and death. Job safety also means lower worker's compensation rates, which is good for business.
http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/10/20/opinion/guest/30-union.txt
PS
I don't care about banks or Enron, that has NOTHING to do with the mess GM is in.
At the end of the day, it's all about balance. Paying extra for that balance is unbalance.
Regards,
OW
The only thing I really disliked was the way other kids and parents sneered at me just because I went to a private school. So lame...
Anyone got any UAW news to discuss?
You would make a good parent, and probably a good Union member.
The Olds Intrigue wasn't ready for introduction quite yet, so it was late compared to the Grand Prix and Century/Regal. As a result, the old GM10 Cutlass Supreme appeared once more for 1997 (I thought it actually lasted longer than that!). The Intrigue was finally launched as a 1998 model, but even there I think it was late, coming out in mid-year?
I thought those old GM10 Cutlass Supreme coupes were pretty sharp looking, at least the earlier ones with the flush headlights. I didn't care for the "6-headlight" look of the later models.
Many of GM workers have given up after years of the quanity push and must change to save not only there jobs but there childrens and grandchildren.
I fully agree with you on that issue. Very poor management for the last 30 years at GM. I would like to see some data on any time the UAW went on strike because they felt the quality in GM vehicles was lacking. Were the two strikes this year over quality. How about the 1998 strike when gas was cheap and they could not build enough SUVs to satisfy the market. The major reason Ford will survive is they have sold off many of their US properties and are building bigger and better factories in Mexico and Brazil. Ford has class leading Hybrids now and in the near future.
Once you get past the big cars you like GM (as well as Ford and Chrysler) really dropped the ball. They are still the best when you get to the big cars.
Well I had a few momments trying to thaw out from brooming the inventory and moving it to plow. Hopefully, the UAW can save some jobs. The great news is the Messiah will be in office soon thus things are destined to get better!!!
-Rocky
Will mess-I-ya push Congress for card check?
Read somewhere that GM will abandon Saturn brand. If true, what will dealers do? Sue? Could they sell used cars and get some revenue from doing Saturn service and repairs?
I've missed your fighting diehard pro-UAW comments in here, rockford. Get re-employed and/or get re-trained as need be or as you want to be soon and keep warm from all of that ice and snow, too.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Why does the UAW NOT call a strike for better quality. I will support it, and even picket with them.
Not for the Soviet Union or Cuba, but it is for China.
China is about 1/2 Communist right now. They have allowed capitalism over the years and that is why their economy is doing so well. There are many wealthy people in China now, a growing middle-class buying cars, and the 95% lower class. In a Comunist society as China was 20 years you didn't have these classes.
About the only true Communist nation left is Cuba.
If I recall correctly, wasn't original Saturn plant in southern state (KY, TENN?) set up there to avoid UAW?
No Springhill fully UAW but did have some agreements which eased the rules and some of these rules spread thruout the other GM plants later.
-Rocky
-Rocky
Do you have any cool Saturn Sky's on your lot, rock? That is a Saturn that I kind of like, along with the Pontiac Solstice.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
However so is everyone and their uncle!!! I have no idea on what to get retrained for. My cousin still can't find a X-Ray tech job and she is a single mother and can't leave the state due to their father being here. It's not good iluv, and I think you will see the ripple effect reach these immune places in the south this next year IMHO!!! My friends in the Panhandle, tell me they are beginning to see their immunization wear off. A couple of good size farmers went belly up!!!! I might gripe about the snow and ice but I'm a yankee and the south isn't for me. I know this will sound bad but I'm sure all of you know how cheap dutch people are and are part of the problem. They are diehard consumer report readers and stick their noses in the air to domestic cars. I however love em' because you know where they stand and know what you are getting as a customer. I think the mixed breeds in Grand Rapids, will be a lot easier sale and the first thing won't be what's your best price!!! Ha Ha Ha!!!! :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
P.S. Did I tell you guys that our last remaining GM, plant is closing down in G.R. ???? Mom whom works for Gentex, is laid-off and my UAW Step-dad and aunt whom work for Delphi, are both still laid-off!!! :sick:
-Rocky
P.S. You all have a great day and I'll keep you posted on what I hear.
P.S.S. imidazol97, my lady friend who normally sells 15-25 cars a month only has 4 out so far. I told you my old dealership Classic Chevrolet, went belly-up right??? She left their about a month ago and works for a competitor now but HATES IT!!!
-Rocky
and yes it is still GM.
The Wyoming, MI Burlingame GM, plant became a Delphi, plant and still is. The Grand Rapids, MI. Alpine GM, plant became a Lear Plant. The Coopersville, MI. GM, plant became Delphi Coopersville, which now is becoming a Dairy, go figure!!!
-Rocky
I guess you are now reaping what you have sown.
Did you really think job banks (getting paid not to work?), needing someone else to carry a screw for you and lifetime health care was REALLY going to last forever?
If you did, I feel sorrier for you then I already did!
This disharmony would lead to widespread poverty and starvation which would only be checked by natural occurrences such as disease, high infant mortality, famine, war or moral restraint.
Malthusian population theory was eventually dismissed for its pessimism and failure to take into account technological advances in agriculture and food production.
In biology, the theory asserts that the reproductive potential of virtually any organism or species greatly exceeds the earth's capacity to support all its possible offspring. Consequently, species diversity is preserved through mechanisms that keep population sizes in check, such as predation.
Hence one could see that just how Marx/Engels could come up with their ideas in their manifesto. Written like a Darwinian evolution of what a society could expect. They failed too, account for technology. Little did they know that 95% of the population could be freed from the chains of the farm and or food production. Consumerism wasn't even considered for the masses, only for the elite folks in the society at the time.
As everything evolves and or morphs from conditions we have experienced in historical eras. So does the birth of the UAW and unionism as a result of filling a void/need to protect the working class. To conclude that we practice pure capitalism and or that the USSR/China/Cuba practice pure communist is just that, an ideal. This goes without saying and to assume that those social security checks/entitlements are something capitalist is just wishful thinking and or some type of rationalization. The current failure in the capitalist markets are not because of pure capitalism. The AMA and other special interests are not capitalist ideals, but rather forces who seek favor at the expense of another.
Did you really think job banks (getting paid not to work?)
Is that like social security?
lifetime health care was REALLY going to last forever?
Did you think the 364 day a year/12 hour day work year was going to last forever?
Jay Leno (who has a collection of over 100 automobiles - must be one really large garage) has a simple yet brilliant advice for Detroit carmakers on how to get things back on track: make better cars!
When you get into a high-priced, well-made American car today and
the key is in the ignition, you hear a melodic bong, bong. But when you get in a cheap American car, like a rental, and the key is left in, it goes plink, plink, plink. It’s just horrible. Every time you use the turn signal, it’s like breaking a chicken leg. In order to make the more expensive car more appealing, U.S. companies feel as though they have to dumb down the cheaper car.
I believe that, all things being equal, Americans will buy American. It just has to be as good as the competition; it doesn’t have to be better. The classic example is Harley-Davidson. Throughout the ’70s, the motorcycle maker had huge quality-control problems. Then Harley-Davidson said, “Look, let’s take our time. Let’s build fewer bikes. Let’s build them properly, so they don’t leak oil and they’ll run forever.” Harley-Davidson won back the market share it had lost, and it continues to dominate today. Even though the bikes might not be technically superior, they’re bulletproof and they’re American. People will buy American if given the chance
And even those great successes could be at least a little bit disputed. Concepts like adequate rest, work safety, pay reflecting qualifications, were bound to happen regardless of unions. Perhaps unions helped them materialize faster. You might say unions were ahead of trends, or more correctly they helped to channel those trends. Today's situation is exactly opposite - unions fight the trends beyond reason in same of glorious past, putting most of their effort into turf protection. UAW may arguably be the most destructive force in this country, or at least get into top three, together with current banking establishment and political parties.
I don't really blame unions for what they are - they really do what they think is their mission. It's more politician's fault that they exploit those instincts and set up a system that basically dooms any company that is unionized, especially in the North. Add selfish and inept managements and you have uninvestable environment that will last for a while, but is pretty much running its course now.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Sorry, Wall Street beat them to it.
Concepts like adequate rest, work safety, pay reflecting qualifications, were bound to happen regardless of unions.
Right, and the company will do whats best for you regardless of the shareholders.
I don't really blame unions for what they are - they really do what they think is their mission.
They represent and protect the rights of workers, plain and simple. Is it a sin to negotiate the best deal possible? Collective bargaining is done all the time in Washington. Special interests and lobby's negotiate on many issues. So what is different? Today Circuit City is closing their doors. Were they UAW/union? Or was it illegal immigrants? Quick find a scapegoat!
In a narrow sense, what the Republicans are proposing would gut the benefits of roughly a million retirees. In a broad sense, they want to destroy the institution that did more than any other to raise American living standards, and they want to do it by using the power of government to lower American living standards -- in the middle of the most severe recession since the 1930s. The auto workers deserve better, and so does the nation they did so much to build.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/16/AR2008121602482.- html
Those that blame loss of jobs on NAFTA are not students of History. GM has been building cars and trucks in Mexico and South America for over 80 years.Way before the UAW was even founded. GM was building cars in Argentina as early as 1925.
So all this globalization talk is not new. It has been around for 1000s of years. I am sure the Romans had something to do with it. Or maybe it was Alexander the Great even before the Roman Empire came and went. The USA is just a foot note in history. And the UAW is less than a dot on a page in History.
Yes, adequate rest, work safety etc. are good for shareholders, that's why they prevail, not because safery union guy "provides" them. I know because I see it. One could argue of course how much "adequate" means, but that's a different discussion.
There is nothing wrong with negotiating the best deal you can. In terms you love to bring up again and again in your AIG/Wall Street "deflections", AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac et al. also negotiated the best deals with Congress (that is before the collapses - years ago): allow 100:1 leverage, give loans to everybody, sell CDOs, CDS etc. They were all so happy buying and selling those great "deals", just the same UAW was when negotiating "job banks", idiotic work rules and going on strike at drop of the hat. Everybody was "making" money. Where are they now? I'm not talking management, I'm talking shareholders and employees.
Sometimes the best deal is not the one that at the moment gets you the best price. It's called chosing long term over short term. That is the concept you and UAW seem to NOT grasp. And again - the unions should negotiate hard. But managements should be ready break backs of the unions, it that's what it takes to save company. That is THEIR mission. D3 didn't do it.
I think the biggest frustation of this forum is that your discussion adversaries (including me) are acknowledging that it's NOT ONLY the union who wrecked Detroit - in fact I say it's mostly management. All we say is that it is ALSO UAW, mostly by refusing to understand its true position and its true situation. Yet, all you seem to be saying is repeating mantras from the last issue of the union's newsletter. No fault, no blemish, all sainds and Gettelfinger for the Pope. Then you deflect to some other organization that we all know did something wrong, like it is a good excuse (well, if the mayor's kid can steal and rape why not me?). It frankly became unbearable. :sick: I need a break from this forum.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I agree. And it will be that same Liberalism that destroys the UAW. Conservatism is all but dead in this country. So anything that happens is under the control of your beloved Liberal progressives in Congress and the WH. It will not take long for you to see I am right. I am also far to the right of what is going on in this country with all the liberal elites bailing each other out. Conservatives wrote Bush off to the liberals in his first term. He is almost as much of a RINO as McCain.
The respond was to the virtues of this new found middle class in China. Go on and read the conservative think tanks take on that. Its linked. I detest citing them.
So all this globalization talk is not new.
The sleeping giant is new and he/she/it has awaken. Worry not, the UAW will come to your rescue if and when they start to bully their way around.
This seems like some of these rural towns here in Texas. Their local papers have yet to publish that Obama has indeed won the election. All the other RACES have been printed. Now the big deal is if the schools will get to turn on the boob tube on Tuesday. You seem to think that your an expert and or well educated in the field of labor relation/human resources. All those who have been involved in the day to day operations of the GM/UAW are but indolent duffers is your take. Much like the yokels who refuse to see and or open their eyes in them little rural towns.
You are living in a dream world or have been mind-alterd. Also... are you suggesting that somone who installs lugnuts or feeds a fender-press is a "SKILLED" worker???... boy you really are in a dream world. Do the unions also feed their people mind-altering drugs so they beleive this cr@p as facts? Perhaps burger-flippers are also "skilled"?
I work for an industry which DOES NOT have any unions and the competetion is fierce. (And I am quite "skilled") How do you explain that? Using your logic, I should be begging on the streets because I cannot earn a "livable wage".
Even the term "livable wage" makes me cringe. My wife grew up in a tarpaper shack melting snow on woodstove to take a bath. She used a scrubboard to wash the diapers of our eldest child. She has NEVER considerd herself not having enough money to feed/shelter the family.... everything else is NOT necessarry. (Cable TV, computers, automobile, celPhone....etc ) After you get rid of all that cr@p and only THEN cannot feed/shelter the family... your wage is not livable.
Perhaps you assume that a 'livable wage" includes cable TV,celPhone, and owning a car? WRONG!!
Never heard of it. You seem well read on theories. This is a complement, not a smart alec remark.
>As everything evolves and or morphs from conditions we have experienced in historical eras. So does the birth of the UAW and unionism as a result of filling a void/need to protect the working class.
So why should UAW not disappear/fail like communism did? UAW had it's role in the earlier part of this century, and rightly so. Not any more. At least not as strong. That is what I believe.