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American autoworkers are among the most productive workers in the world. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the typical autoworker produces value added worth $206 per worker per hour.1 This is far more than he or she earns in wages, even when benefits, statutory contributions and other costs are included.
The total labor cost of a new vehicle produced in the United States is about $2,400,2 which includes direct, indirect and salaried labor for engines, stamping and assembly at the automakers’ plants.
This represents 8.4 percent of the typical $28,4513 price of a new vehicle in 2006. The vast majority of the costs of producing a vehicle and transporting it to a dealership and preparing it for sale – including design, engineering, marketing, raw materials, executive compensation and other costs – are not related to direct or indirect manufacturing labor.
http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php
The topic isn't about political screeds or religion or middle east policies.
Let's start the week off topically please.
Sounds like text book Union propaganda to me. So what do you tell the workers that get laid off because the auto maker can get the job done much more efficiently in Brazil. Where is this lied about job security? I think you miss the real problem in paying people artificially higher wages than the job requires. Sure they get to live like kings for a few years, then get dumped back to reality and living in the back seat of their car.
So why is it important to continue to enhance the incomes of elite capitalist pirates at the expense of hard working Americans who have gone into debt just to maintain their prior modest standard of living?
Again you miss the reality of life. The line worker was living in a world of artificially inflated wages. The rest of the USA was not paying $30 per hour for menial labor. And whether the UAW worker can face the fact that their jobs are menial labor is up to them. The skilled people in the Auto industry that were laid off are probably already back to work in some other industry. The only other job for a lug nut assembler is changing tires for minimum wage at the Good Year store. I am not happy that the head of Disney just got $51 million. Reality is I do not have any Disney stock and have no say in what they pay the CEO. And yes I consider it criminal.
Keep this in mind when you’re envious of the wages and fringe benefits received by unionized workers – they fight every day to receive a fair wage from employers
Maybe if they spent that time working harder to put their company in the black it would have been better for them and the company. Striking when the company is bleeding red ink is hardly a positive for the UAW cause.
With more than 1 in 4 U.S. workers in 2007 earning wages that were at the poverty level (further fueled by increased wage deceleration across all professions) what we least need now is to reduce the wages of U.S. autoworkers to a level below all but the wage rate paid by Hyundai to its U.S. line workers.
Just how does an autoworker in Detroit making $100k per year help someone at the poverty level? It only drives the cost of owning an automobile higher for those at the bottom of the food chain. You keep forgetting. GM and Chrysler should be filing for bankruptcy. That could mean all those jobs go away forever. I think cutting wages to Hyundai levels would be a smart move for the UAW to make. It would be better than all the UAW jobs leaving the country. The D3 are now down to about 150k UAW workers. How many more jobs will be lost because of their leadership's inability to face reality?
Reality is sure hard for some people to face. From the looks of your employment, my guess is your fight for the UAW is to salve a guilty conscience. You have more than likely done well in the stock market on the backs of cheap labor. Or did you hold onto just domestic auto industry stock that would support the UAW? :P
The Automotive News World Congress opens today with leaders from the D3 and Gettelfinger appearing. Maybe we'll have some new news to bandy about in a few hours.
Up in Ottawa, Harper's government is telling "GM and Chrysler they must slash labour costs to U.S. levels - which means equalling Japanese competitors" if they want to tap a $4-billion government bailout fund.
No kidding, if you keep reading the BS posted on this board, I'm suppose to believe those 150k jobs are supporting the other 150 million or so employed in the US. I guess I should hug the first UAW member I see, and thank them for my standard of living. I haven't met a UAW member in person since I lived in Ohio 7 years ago and all he did was brag about him and his buddies getting drunk while operating their presses at the Ontario, Oh plant. Nice.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if GM could manage to make a product people want to buy at a profit. But they haven't, and my tax dollars has to subsidize a business model that is failing from top to bottom including the UAW contracts. But that's okay, because they are entitled, and it should be my duty to thankfully subsidize them even though I can't stand the vast majority of products they produce.
Regardless, thanks for your support.
Yes I know about architects. 99% architects making $50/hr or more are exactly as how you described it. Oh and you forget another point: most of them have been in the job for about 20 years or more.
I cringe everytime I hear that UAW workers used to make about $50/hr not long ago in the past. Teachers, engineers and architects, with huuuugggeee responsibility in their hands deserve much more. Not to mention the ammount of education they need to take to get a degree, which means many of them are most likely drowning in debt for their efforts while UAW workers, who need little more than a training session at the factory, get the same pay.
I disagree with Gagrice on this guy, I think he realized that his post breached some very sensitive issues and still he went for it anyway.
Oh well, people, to each of his/her own.....
What did he say in his letter to GM that was out of line? I thought he nailed it across the whole email.
The real issue was with the lack of quality and quality control. To pay more for that was simply insult added to injury. I began to see the light when times got a little tough for us and I had to sell a nearly new 73 "Loaded" Chevy Pickup. Replaced it with a new left over '73 stripped down Toyota P/U. The Chevy required numerous dealer visits under the 12K warranty. The Toyota big>"0".
I don't recall ever going back to the Toyota dealer for any problems with that truck.
Bought my first car in 1958 and the first new on in 1960. Knew most of the service writers and mechanics at Nalley Chevrolet. Warranty work was a way of life.
As the salesman said," It is a car and things are going to go wrong".
But over the years we drifted more and more toward the so called "[non-permissible content removed] Junk" , because they were simply more reliable and any problems we did have were minor and fixed quickly.
Just amazing to me that when Chevy finally comes up with a possible world class car (Malibu) the UAW goes on strike. Amazing.
>"Then shouldn't everyone else get more? Where does it end?
They say shoplifters cost the consumer more, as cost are passed on. So is it reasonable to assume that CEO abuse is also borne by the consumer? How about when companies pay for naming rights (such as ENRON, which is now Reliant) for stadiums/arenas, superstar endorsements, and a host of other gimmicks? "
I really don't understand how anyone can't see that if every non management worker was making the same wages and bennefits as UAW, the UAW workers would not be any better off than anyone else. They would find themselves in the lower class but making the $28 + bennies they are now, just like everyone else. . There would be no middle class and all our meaningful jobs would go away because no one in any other part of the world could afford anything we make. We as the lower class couldn't afford them either so everything we purchased would be from China or like source.
Of course we couldn't actually purchase anything because we aren't working. Starting with manufacturing, the jobs went away!
Talk about trickle down!
We just might need to learn a couple of other languages, as our country is taken over. "Press 7 for English" Then when we want our strike, we will be shot, jailed, or sent to the mines. Wherever they are.
Kip
The topic isn't about political screeds or religion or middle east policies.
Let's start the week off topically please.
Whew, thanks Steve.
Sorry.
Okay, let's check out their current pay. $28/hr right? So assuming they do the jobs 9-5 = 8hrs. 28x8 = $224 per day. Assuming they work 5 days / week, then they work appoxmately 22 days/month. 224x22 = $4928/month. That's darn near $5,000 /mo, which equals roughly $60k a year (okay, $59136). School teachers are veerrryy lucky if they can get that much, yet they have more responsibility in their hands.
In comparison, average engineers and architects get about the same amount of money annually (forget the $50/hr, thats for TOP ones only), while teachers who're responsible to educate the young get much less than that. Engineers, teachers and architects need to study like hell in college for at least 4 years, many even up to 7 years. Means they get into more debt and some of their paychecks must go into paying debts. UAW workers need none of those, requiring little more than a training session in the factory. Heck they don't even need any kind of degree.
Next, imagine the huge disparity in responsibility. A car breaks down, a few people become victims physically at worst. When a building breaks down, dozens, or even thousands can end up dead, or when a teacher screws up in teaching, it can ruin a whole generation under his/her care.
When you look at it this way UAW workers' current pay is plenty more than enough. Yet the workers (and some people here) are complaining that they're underpaid??? Yeah right....
Now it's myturn: For those who insist that UAW workers are "highly skilled", please explain exactly just how can they be considered highly skilled????? What makes any of you think they deserve to get paid $50/hr? Heck what makes you think they even deserve $28/hr? Please, enlighten me.
The other group often has income, but the credit cards have gotten out of hand or the medical bills are overwhelming, but they still can scrape up enough to make payments to me over a few months (no, nothing is filed until I am paid in full...you think I want to be one of those creditors who does not get paid???)...before you rail at folks who you think bought too many iPods on their Visa card, many times the out of control credit cards are the result of a stretch of unemployment last year, where they had no choice but to use credit cards to pay living expenses, robbing from Peter (Visa) to pay Paul (Discover)...now, they have a job, but they make less than they did, but the cards still have a $40K balance and they simply cannot make the payments...or the $20K surgery they needed to live, but have no insurance...they often pay a part themselves, but still need help from friends or family...
You would also be surprised at how many folks I have to tell that the reason they are falling behind is because they bought more house than they can afford, and now that the interest rate has gone up, or they are no longer "interest only", their payments went up $400/month, and they simply are living in a house they never should have bought in the first place...I simply tell them that they must surrender the home in order to live within their means...they usually get upset, but the numbers don't lie...if they can't afford it, no other attorney can do any magic for them, they just have to face the mirror of their own folly, as they are often in the group that was part of the sub-prime mortgage craze...
Occasionally, I will do one pro bono, but they have to impress me with their need AND sincerity...the LAST one who will ever get a chance at pro bono (from me, anyway) is the one who tells me he "deserves it"...those people get to me...not only are they entitled to own all the goodies they want, now they think I owe it to them because they are "needy"...those people remind me of the people who, upon meeting them, the first words out of their mouth are "I'm a Good Christian"...I have dealt with them in the past...if that is all they can say about themselves, I have learned, from experience, two things...1) they aren't good...2) they aren't Good Christians...and watch your wallet with those people...if they have to TELL me it means their deeds will NEVER show me...so, as soon as they mention it, I grab my wallet and leave the room...
Oh, if they can prove they served in Iraq, they always get special consideration from me...I do honor our service people...
I fully agree. And I have lambasted the incompetent management at GM on the proper threads. This thread would have died like the UAW a slow natural death, if not for asking the tax payers to bail out a failed US auto industry. I have bought several new GM vehicles, so I know about their poor styling and engineering first hand. I also know about their sloppy workmanship in building my 2005 GMC PU truck. The UAW workers are not as skilled as they think they are, and from my own GM vehicles they do not compare to the Canadian or Mexican workers.
maybe I missed something but what world do you think the UAW guys made $50/hour? They have not taken any hourly pay cuts ever for their current workers. Not defending them but the misinformation here always cracks me up.
Reminds me of senior discounts. I went to a lady barber long, long ago in a small town where lots of rich retired farmers lived, along with lots of Fridgidaire, Delco, and Chrysler autoworkers in Dayton lived far out but within commuting distance. This was the era when senior discounts had become the trend. I commented she didn't have a sign up for that. She explained that she gave discounts to the seniors who truly needed it; many of the ones who would have asked for it but didn't need it and would have taken one if she had had a sign. The ones that truly deserved help were too proud to ask for it--those are the ones she gave a much lower price. Amazingly wise lady I realized.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
There's no begrudging. The reality is that the government had nothing to do with the $ and benefit deals between the UAW and the D3. After many years of losses though, the D3 can not afford to continue to spend money like they used to. It was the UAW and the D3 who then pleaded for Congress to get involved. Congress said to them "you need to decrease your spending; which includes wages and benefits".
Most other foreign auto manufacturers pay production wages close to parity with their U.S. automotive competitors.
This is an irrelevant issue - what other auto companies pay, or what unions in aerospace or construction get paid. The issue is internal to what the D3 can afford to pay. GM, Ford, and Chrysler can only pay, what they can afford; it is not up to the taxpayer to fund the difference. If the D3 can only afford to pay $15/hr, or the choice is go bankrupt, then that is the choice the UAW and D3 needs to make.
because the United Auto Workers (UAW) union has created an undeclared wage floor across the U.S. automotive industry simply by having members that have a voice – this has been described as the “union threat effect”. Unionized workers in the auto industry receive fair wages and fringe benefits because they can collectively negotiate with the U.S. carmakers; projecting one voice.
While the UAW can certainly do that with their employer, and think it is fair; the people who ultimately determine what is "fair" is the consumer. The consumer has the power, not the UAW. If the cars are too costly or too poor quality, the consumers go elsewhere.
Keep this in mind when you’re envious of the wages and fringe benefits received by unionized workers – they fight every day to receive a fair wage from employers who drain the global economy dry of income in order to build a mountain of wealth that can be used to control our politicians, lives, and insure their place (reduce income-class mobility) within the world plutocratic dictatorship.
Again the unions fight is with the D3 management; and should not involve Congress or the taxpayer. If the UAW wants to keep making "fair" wages - great, get the D3 to redirect more of their spending to the UAW. Let the D3 reduce their corporate jets, cut their pay, do less advertising whatever they want to cut. It does not involve the rest of us. But I think the D3 management has implied that they rather go bankrupt - by continuing to spend more than they make.
The rest of your post is a much bigger issuer - the redistribution of wealth and power in the U.S. and world, then this topic. The amount of money the UAW workers make is simply a matter between the D3 management and the UAW; it is not about saving the world. The amount the UAW makes is simply a function of what the D3 can afford to pay you.
There-in lies the problem. The only concessions are for new hires and retirees. All that does is cause problems in the plant. You know that a new guy coming in making half of what some lazy old dude makes will be a hassle. Other than a bit for longevity pay the scales should be the same for all UAW workers. That was the concept behind Unions to start with. Not several tiers within the same classification.
As for all the figures thrown out, it is media that says GM UAW workers making $73 per hour. When the truth is they may only have a package that costs $45 per hour. The rest is the Ponzi scheme the UAW and the Automakers cooked up to pay the health care of the retirees.
I'm not worried because appreciation for the job is not high on the list in the negotiations on the UAW side. This will lead to failed talks and more problems as time goes on. Then, perhaps EVERYONE will loose their job.
Watch and see...the whining begins now!
UNATTAINABLE
Regards,
OW
The discussion was hourly wage which, per the poster is now $27 / hour and was $50 / hour. Again they never made $50 / hour straight time. Just trying to keep the facts correct.
I understand Obama has ordered the shovels and asphalt rakes for his massive infrastructure stimulus. He plans to offer all those displaced UAW workers a good paying job at above minimum wage. $8.55 per hour plus a hot lunch when the job is more than 3 miles from a McDonalds or Popeye's Chicken. Tents will be provided for those that signed up for a sub prime loan and defaulted.
Good luck, that is not easy to do. My understanding is the Package not including the legacy costs is about $50 per hour. I would imagine the new hires are at about $27 with benefits. Some people do not understand wages and wage packages that include benefits. I know a lot of people have seen that $73 figure on the news and in the paper. I have corrected several misconceptions. When it was first published at $73 I knew something was amiss. As anyone making $30 per hour is not going to have $43 per hour in benefits. Then the whole legacy issue started to unfold. The UAW is a partner to that scam and will have to live with the outfall by those that do not understand. Including a lot of this flaky Congress.
At the same time, I can sign them up for the new Union....gotta get them dues!
At least I'll get some of the bailout money back!
Regards,
OW
Basically they're going to use a combination of "you confused us", "you didn't give us enough time", and the final fallback - threat of "you can't do anything to us, because we'll drag down the whole economy at this bad economic moment".
Anyone think these tactics could have come from watching Tony Soprano?
So when your asked what you make per hour are you to add all the benefits and legacy cost? Lets just set the record straight.
And as the Wall Street Journal reported (11/20/08), "During the past three years, the union agreed to eliminate tens of thousands of production jobs, reduce healthcare coverage for union retirees and slash wages for new hires--moves that essentially level the playing field between the Big Three auto makers and their foreign-owned rivals." The paper went on to explain that these concessions are significant: "Analysts believe the changes will bring the average cost of union labor to less than $50 an hour by 2010 or 2011, in line with Toyota Motor Corp.'s labor costs. The Harbour Report, a closely watched scorecard of auto-plant productivity, earlier this year found that in 2007 the average per-vehicle labor costs for the Big Three in 2007 was no more than $260 above Toyota's"--far from the $1,500 premium ABC claimed GM pays.
ABC did include a quote from UAW president Ron Gettelfinger, saying that he "bristled at blaming auto workers"--but ABC's newscast was as much behind the finger-pointing as the industry is. As economist Dean Baker noted (Beat the Press, 11/18/08), this misinformation has serious consequences: "It certainly can affect public support for a bailout if they are led to believe that autoworkers are paid much more than is actually the case." ABC should correct the record.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3659
It appears to me that Senate Republicans are on an ideologically driven union-busting adventure here, that happens to have the prospect of increasing the market share of the foreign-owned companies who work in their states. American-owned companies and the American economy as a whole be darned -- those foreign-owned companies that serve the individual states of these senators who are objecting to this bailout, they're the ones who are getting served.
Why aren't Democrats making them filibuster this -- making them stand up and defend this, if this is really what they want the country to know they're doing?
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-gops-platform-now-redu- ce-wag
They are willing to help the rich traders on Wall Street who do nothing but push paper. But they have declared class warfare against workers who actually make things and add value to our nation. A rising ship lifts all boats and union wages prop up nonunion wages. When union wages sink, the only place for nonunion pay to go is down. Rep. Corker and his fellow-travelers want nothing less than a race to the bottom in wages for American workers.
I came up the hard way and today I am the CEO of a major American insurance company. But unlike Rep. Corker, I have never forgotten where I come from and what it means to live from pay check to pay check. American Income Life Insurance Company is 100 percent all-union. We are proud that we pay fair wages and benefits negotiated with our employees at the collective bargaining table. We would never expect our employees to work for the lowest wage possible.
Our nation will never experience an economic recovery if the wages of American workers are forced lower and lower as Rep. Corker and his allies want. They shed crocodile tears for American taxpayers while pursuing a policy to punish Michigan and the Auto Workers for their political support of President-elect Obama. They are as phony as the words that come out of their mouths.
I've never been a fan of President Bush, but I congratulate him for standing behind America's auto industry. We support and encourage him to allocate a portion of the bailout money for Wall Street to help Main Street. Hopefully, the auto industry can survive until the new Congress and President Obama take office and we can rid ourselves of the anti-union haters in Congress.
Voters sent a clear signal on Nov. 7 that they want the culture wages to end. But Rep. Corker and his pals haven't gotten the message. Our nation needs to strengthen the ties that bind us, not yank the ropes that pull us apart.
Yeah.....
"A wise man understand the rights of the poor (and knows how to exploit them to the fullest), a foolish man has no such knowledge (and it does not matter)"
Give us all a break,please. Excesively high pay, lower quality and uninspiring design = FAILURE. Period the end.
The UAW is a HUGE part of the failure. Believe it or not, my friend.
Any questions? :confuse:
Regards,
OW
That'll just about do it for the US Aut Industry in 2009. The NEW US Auto Industry is waiting in the wings.
Regards,
OW
Lalit Kishore Choudhary, 47, the head of the Indian operations of Graziano Transmissioni, a manufacturer of car parts that has its headquarters in Italy, died of severe head wounds on Monday after being attacked by scores of laid-off employees, police said. The incident, in Greater Noida, followed a long-running dispute between the factory’s management and workers demanding better pay and permanent contracts.
It is understood that Mr Choudhary, who was married with one son, had called a meeting with more than a hundred former employees who had been dismissed after an earlier outbreak of violence at the plant. He wanted to discuss a possible reinstatement deal.
A police spokesman said: “Only a few people were called inside. About 150 people were waiting outside when they heard someone from inside shout for help. They rushed in and the two sides clashed. The company staff were heavily outnumbered.”
Other executives said that they were lucky to escape with their lives. “I locked my door from inside and prayed they would not break in. See, my hands are trembling even three hours later,” one Italian consultant told reporters.
The murder has stoked fears that outbreaks of mob rule risk jeopardising the sub-continent’s economic rise. Thousands of violent protesters recently forced Tata, the Indian conglomerate that owns Land Rover and Jaguar, to halt work on a plant being built to produce the world’s cheapest car
Deadly work
— 1986 In Edmond, Oklahoma, 14 postal employees were killed by a part-time letter carrier who was about to be dismissed
— 1996 A former employee of a car parts supplier in New York state shot dead a manager who had demoted him, and wounded two other workers
— 2005 A former employee of an international school in Cambodia took dozens of children hostage and shot dead a two-year-old Canadian boy
disclaimer: The above plant is not UAW and or affiliated with the UAW
Why would the UAW do that when a strike can cripple an entire international company. No need to kill one or 2 people.
Regards,
OW
>Floor Assembler I - $24K - $30K
>Floor Assembler III - $34K - $48K
>$11/hr - $23/hr.
Is that CTC (Cost To Company) ?
One of twenty-two "Right-to-work" states, Alabama seriously impairs workers, also known as "Middle Class Americans", in their efforts to obtain things like fair wages and safe working conditions. The euphemism "Right-to-work" might just as well be called, "The right-to-work-for-less-money-and-under-potentially-poor-conditions." In concert with this will inevitably come the Rush Limbaughs and the other cheerleader-shills of Organized Wealth who will attack workers' pensions, health care benefits and fair wages in an attempt to make them and the American middle class, the "culprits who caused the economic meltdown."
Blame the victims, kill the messengers, spit in our faces and tell us "it's raining."
The cost of health insurance and health care in its current FOR-PROFIT mode is what ultimately adds to the cost of things like the manufacturing of a car or, any other business that requires human beings. If workers and/or their employers weren't being ripped off by the American Health Insurance/Health Care system -- a FOR-PROFIT system -- several good things would follow. The cost of doing business would be less, profits and wages could increase, tax revenues would therefore correspondingly increase, more money would go into the Social Security Trust Fund so retirement benefits could increase, ditto, more money could go into 401ks...you get the picture.
We've been scammed unconscionably and unmercifully in this country.
It's time to reign in the greed and special treatment that the health care, the oil and the financial industries have enjoyed at the working stiff's expense. With a new President, Senate and House of Representatives, we as citizens can draw the proverbial line in the sand.
Guess whose moving in tomorrow?
I see, only the companies that employ UAW members are entitled to selling a product/service for the purpose of profit and high wages, while the large and small businesses that provide our health care are not.
I agree our health care system needs some type of overhaul, but I don't believe those who provide those services shouldn't be allowed to earn a profit. I don't intend to open a can of worms, but I don't understand why many see profit as evil, whether it's the company I buy my car from or the doctor, nurse, pharmacist etc I get my health care from.
BTW, my investment/retirement accounts have been boosted nicely over the years by the so called evil industries, i.e. oil and health care.
I agree, you can't just point the finger at the UAW's themselves, however, they do make a large target, don't they? Sure, GM management should've woke up to the fact that their product was slipping behind, namely marketable cars for sale that were well-made and affordable.
Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Mazda, VW, and on, slipped in with better product and sold them for a price that really didn't top GM's automobile prices.
GM decided that, with high healthcare costs for pensioners and current UAW employees, it couldn't make a small or medium car for a profit, especially a quality, sought-after small car. Big pick-em-up trucks and big SUV's did make them a profit. But then high ghastly prices snuck in to the U.S. picture.
High built-in costs for GM, lower sales due to the high ghastly prices, the sub-prime mortgage crisis, Ponzi-schemers and huge job losses, and, GM is in a big 'ole mess looking to it's future.
Sure, high healthcare coverage costs hurt GM immensely, but, striking them when they're not making a profit and then striking them again while they're still not making a profit while they still have high healthcare "legacy" costs doesn't make very good business sense. It might have made good grubby-hand UAW union sense, but it makes poor business sense and it makes poor planning sense.
You should be ashamed of yourselves, UAW. GM, as well, for not planning ahead in the mid-80's, but the UAW for money-grubbing when it made stupid sense to money-grub.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
GM and Chrysler should be dead and buried by then. You just cannot help yourself. You continue to throw up smokescreens and irrelevant trivia nonsense to cover-up for the ignorance of the UAW leadership. The UAW has not given up anything to try and save the auto industry. They do not deserve any tax dollars. Let them get themselves out of the mess they have caused with their legacy Ponzi scheme. The GM and UAW leadership should be going to jail for offering future rewards based on future income. That is illegal. Madoff is going to prison for running a Ponzi scheme like the UAW and GM came up with to pay for retiree health care. The retirees should be filing a class action suit against the UAW and GM. The US tax payers should not get saddled with GM and UAW promises that were never meant to be kept.
The folks you don't mention are the problem. Like the managed care, who tells your doctor what they are to charge you, regardless of your doctors experience. Then the formulary chart which tells the drugs which you are allowed by managed care. The AMA who tells the medical schools how many students are allowed to enter medical schools. The drug companies who lobby Washington. When you look at the "big picture" you see the distortion of the free market by the special interests. Profit is a great word and for the risk taker in a capitalist society. You certainly can't use the entrepreneur status if the taxpayers are footing the bill. Like that certain TN senator who had an arena built for him by the taxpayers. Does that merit profit? Is he worthy of reward from the risk taken? Incidentally he happens to oppose the UAW/Big Three bail out. You have to admit the Toyota/Honda idea of touch labor and or value added is a valid point.
BTW were talking about 75% of these great so called money managers not being able to beat the S&P. Large corporations listing the liabilities as assets to fool Wall Street. Gary claiming the 40% loss of his 401K. If in fact they knew what they were doing they would have fled to safety last year and certainly they aren't due any commissions for their pathetic returns.
I sure hope those aren't the same ones who failed to warn the money market managers last year. If its not too personal, how much of a hit did your 401K take last year?
I agree that $15/hr is fine. It should be a good starting point for someone to be able to rent, save some coin, and with modest pay raises put a decent down payment on a house.
However, in San Diego, how do people try to compete at $12-15/hr if people cross the border and are willing to work for $8-10???
>Floor Assembler I - $24K - $30K
>Floor Assembler III - $34K - $48K
>$11/hr - $23/hr.
Is that CTC (Cost To Company) ?
Nope. That's the Salary ONLY.
Regards,
OW
My 401K is down 41% from the peak in October 2007. I am still just above what my employer and I put into the 401K. So unless it goes up again I will break even. If it continues to go down I will lose money that I have invested. If I were to sell them the Gold coins I bought in the late 1990s would have done much better than my stocks. Overall I have done best on land I have bought and sold. Of course the $7 per hour my employer so graciously contributed to my Teamster retirement was the best investment as far as I am concerned. Unlike my brethren in the UAW I never went on strike, even when we took a big cut in pay during the 1980s. I was smart enough to not kill the goose laying the golden egg. We survived to negotiate a better contract when times were better. A concept that seems foreign to Gettlefinger and the UAW thugs.
Classic formula for investing still makes sense and kind of works for the xrunner. Take your age and subract from 100. That is percent amount to put into equities. The rest goes into bonds, cash, cds, and similar. Stock market is a crap shoot, maybe just a little better than Vegas.
We wish they were that high!
Mexican auto unions are taking a cue from U.S. labor leaders by offering two-tier hiring schemes and salary cuts that bring already-low wages down to near-Chinese levels.
Wage concessions were apparently critical to persuading Ford Motor Co. to direct many of the 4,500 new jobs involved in building Fiestas to the Ford plant in Cuautitlan, on the outskirts of Mexico City. Union leaders at the plant told The Associated Press they had agreed to cut wages for new hires to about half the current level of $4.50 per hour
Mexico, where starting wages at some plants also have been two-tiered, to as little as $1.50 per hour, with a lot less of the related pension and health care costs of U.S. workers.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080608/news_1b8mexcar.html