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United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Although I haven't owned a domestic car since my 69 Camaro, I still LIKE Buicks.

    I think they're a make that has suffered from GM's other sins, and poor marketing more than anything they've done to themselves. I believe that Buick is still the best of GM.

    I like the Roadmasters but I'd love an Electra like this one...

    image

    And I wouldn't actually kill anyone to get a 65 Rivera but oh my ......

    image
  • ingvaringvar Member Posts: 205
    Sounds like the polar opposite of the kind of car I desire. I want a big, luxurious, automatic transmission, RWD, V-8 car.
    Different people have different desires. I want a small 2 doors, DSG transmittion or manual, rwd, i6/v6 bi-turbo car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    It was a tuna boat to the MAX. I am amazed they ever built anything that long. I guess the older ones were even longer by a few inches. UAW made all the way I am sure.

    Oh heck, by 1970's standards those things were just midsizers! :P IIRC, GM's big '71-76 wagons were all on a 125" wheelbase, and around 225" long. They had around 106 cubic feet of cargo volume, and could swallow an entire 4x8 sheet of plywood, flat between the wheel wells, with the tailgate closed.

    I think those '91-96 "whale" bodies had around 91 cubic feet of cargo volume. I think they could still hold a 4x8 sheet flat, but you had to leave the tailgate open. These cars were on a 116" wheelbase, and I think were around 215" long. I think the rounded body with the tapered ends might make them look bigger and fatter than they really were, though.

    The '91-96 big cars were good cars...made in Arlington, Texas, instead of Detroit. Would that still have been UAW down in those parts?
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Lemko, as someone who is not retired or financially independent and lives where it snows; large RWD cars don't make sense.

    One snow and most people have a hard time driving a RWD car. Not to mention most of us don't want to donate to Saudi Arabia via a gas guzzler. Gas is pricey. A four valve front wheel drive sedan saves gas.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    What kind of steering wheel does the Corvette have? How much does a new Corvette run.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I don't know, but when both Karl Malone and John Stockton retired and were gone from the NBA I wanted to pop open a bottle of champagne. Malone and his stupid little mantra when he shot free throws, he took about 5 minutes before his first shot would go up. And with Karl Malone, he usually didn't get fouled by anyone. He used one of those massive arms to clear an open path to the hoop, or to get the defender just a bit away from him so he could have an open shot. To me that's not talent, that's thugability in the 1st degree. Michael Jordan did it, too, they had what we call in the NBA "respect from the ref's", so they can get away with murder if they want. Glad they're all long gone, and what's nice, I don't have to see them as NBA analysts on TV, either, at tall! Whoo-hoo!

    Now if Bab-wa-WA-Waaa would just retire the TV airwaves would be all the more clear and free. For goodness sakes, Bab-waa, we've seen several lifetimes enough of you already.

    As for the Kia Koup, it will sell for Kia in droves. rockford-if GM, Chrysler and even Ford could learn to build a car like this, I might even do some more research on those cars and possibly consider a test drive of one of them.

    But since the Jobs Bank entitlement UAW workers only build what the poop-for-brains GM designers give them to build, those types of rigs haven't been available for iluv to test-drive.

    I mean, who is that cable news lady, Greta Van Susteren, who just paid a visit to a GM plant making Buick Rendezvous. There ya go, GM is still trying to cash in on a dying breed, a large SUV! Sure, these people are proud of their SUV, it rides like a champ, I'm pretty sure one would like their Buick SUV. But what's new about it? It will cost you too much, just for starters.

    But it is old-school vehicle manufacturing. The foreign automakers just make rigs that I prefer to look at, much less drive. And when I drive the foreign vehicles I get a good and content and happy feeling. My point is that I don't even see a domestic rig that I want to take for a test drive.

    The 2010 Ford Fiesta is the first one I've seen in a long while that I'd be interested in. The Big 2 1/2 have ignored the small car market for so long that they've literally alienated types like myself from their market.

    If the Chevy Volt has a quiet and comfortable ride, and it's new tech. works, and saves money on propulsion costs, and has a much lower price(be thinking $25,000 minus the "green Barack rebate" here) I would probably be interested in a test drive of that car. It is the most promising brain-turned-on piece of technology I've seen from GM in a long while. Bring that pup on.

    And rocky, when we named our 5.9 pound male Pomeranian Rocky, in June of 2000, when we picked him up as a tiny puppy, I don't think you were yet on Edmunds. As part of the Edmunds "faeee-mmm-uuuuu-lllll-yyyy". Sheesh, I don't know why but certain people turn the simpley-pronounced word family and give it this weird fame-ulll-leeee twinge to it that just gets inside my spine and tries to give it a hard cork to either side, listen for it next time especially when women are talking on TV. ;) You'll probably hear it.

    So rock, no, you weren't the inspiration for our 9 y/o Pom's name. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    These cars were on a 116" wheelbase, and I think were around 215" long.

    That sounds like the dimensions of my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe wagon which was considered a midsizer at that time. Buick didn't have a true full-size wagon from 1964-69. The Sportwagon, based on the midsize platform, served as Buick's largest wagon those years though it was on a 121" wheelbase.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I've managed for the past 28 years. There's something called snow tires.

    A four valve front wheel drive sedan saves gas

    ...and looks like hell. I couldn't even look at myself driving something like that. It would be like getting me drunk and posting a video of me making out with some ugly broad on YouTube.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sounds like the polar opposite of the kind of car I desire. I want a big, luxurious, automatic transmission, RWD, V-8 car.

    I would think an armored Escalade would be the only vehicle safe in Killadephia. Something with enough ground clearance to bounce over the dead bodies lying everywhere and the giant craters from pipe bombs thrown during the gang wars. :sick:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    More like a Bradley armored personnel carrier or an M-1 Abrams tank.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    That sounds like the dimensions of my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe wagon which was considered a midsizer at that time. Buick didn't have a true full-size wagon from 1964-69.

    Yeah, your '68 wagon would've been on a 116" wheelbase, but I don't think it would've been anywhere near 215" long, as cars didn't really start getting a lot of overhang until the 70's, and those big bumpers. I'd guess it was around 205" long. I think the '73-77 midsized wagons did pork up to around 215", though.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    I sat in a Malibu. It was surprisingly cramped and cheap plastic pieces were unsnapping. Also shop around, it is very difficult to find a 6sp auto on a Malibu unless it is V6. Go on the Chevy dealer websites and read the fine print.
    The Malibu also lags in interior space and hp.
    Also the Malibu has horsepower numbers.
    For the 4cyl:
    Accord 190 Malibu 162
    For the V6:
    Accord 271 Malibu 252

    The Malibu is a good looking car. But I would take the Fusion way ahead the Malibu, especially if I'm buying American. :lemon:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Cobalt steering wheels in Corvettes? Proof? I think it might be a bit different but still looks as cheap. Actually I think the Malibu has a better looking interior than the vette, which IMO is embarrassing for a $50k vehicle.

    image

    image
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Looks are in the eye of the beholder. I think the DTS looks like something Jerry Seinfield's Dad would buy.

    Also I'm glad to here that you can buy snow tires. I'm trying to pay for my MBA and dump money into my 401k. I don't have that luxury.

    Also what kind of steering wheel does the ZR1 have? :confuse:
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Great post. Glad you put the pictures up. They are exactly the same except for the buttons and the thing in the middle. The cheapness that is GM.
    How much is a new ZR1, Dick Wagoner's baby? $150,000? :lemon:
    It has the same POS G5-Cobalt-Malibu-Aura-Ion steering wheel. Real classy.
  • stewpidasostewpidaso Member Posts: 45
    same reliability too. according to CR
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    What does a set of snow tires and wheels run? A grand or so? And you can use them for years. If you can afford to "dump" money into a 401K and pay for an overrated degree (won't your employer help?), you can defer a month of savings into such equipment :P

    I drive a RWD car...when there is too much snow or ice (doesn't take much in my neck of the woods as the public sector road crews are not the most competent), I simply don't drive.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    image

    This is from a ZR-1 article. I'm assuming it's actually the ZR-1 because you can't tell a difference with a regular model.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    My employer helps with my degree. In all honesty I cannot afford snow tires. I don't have $1,000 to dump into something that I will only use for four months, and then will have to take off when summer comes around.
    It is not unusual. Non of my friends or co-workers buy snow tires. My Dad and his friends don't use them either.
    Even with snow tires it is not the easiest thing to do a u-turn in a Grand Marquis. Why do you think every luxury manufacturer has a 4wd option, even Cadillac.
    Glad you guys can afford it. :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    I drive a RWD car...when there is too much snow or ice (doesn't take much in my neck of the woods as the public sector road crews are not the most competent), I simply don't drive.

    Same here...we just don't get heavy snow storms on a regular basis for us to have the infrastructure to deal with it. So in a big storm, we usually just close everything down! :P

    I don't even bother with snow tires. The all-season radials that I have on all my cars seem to work well enough. Now I do have to admit, I did get my pickup stuck in my yard when we had our one real storm this past winter...about 9-10". But that's because I was too lazy to shovel...I just threw it into gear and drove over it, packing it down. Then when I went over the same spot again, the truck slipped a bit and went off the driveway and onto the ground, and I got hung up on one spot where there was a little dip.

    I'm not all that protective of my Intrepid anymore, now that it's pushing 10 years old and probably has a negative book value. But back when it was newer, whenever it snowed, I'd drive my grandmother's '85 LeSabre. My reasoning was that if some idiot who didn't know how to drive in it was going to wipe out, I'd rather have them bounce relatively harmlessly off the Buick, instead of creaming my new Intrepid with almost 5 years of payments left on the books!
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    and wanted an extra vehicle in my driveway for SW jaunts and vacations to L.A. and San Diego and Austin, TX, to see Robin Trower play his guitar, things like that, I would strongly consider a New World Order Chevrolet Corvette. Old-school technology but big old-school technology, get ya to your groceries fast, gentlemen.

    And IMO the body styling on this monster is quite appealing. Good job GM! Come on, they deserve compliments when they've done a good job. It's not a ground-breaking car, just a muscle car done right and done nice. I don't see anything that annoys me about it. A test drive might reveal something, but since I haven't test-drove a Vette and probably never will, I'll just leave it at that.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    > It's a damn shame a lot of good people lost there jobs for a cause.

    No. they did not. Nobody gets nothing without a sacrifice.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >You don't see many car of the year awards from Ford, do ya???

    Does it really matter?

    What matters is who is left standing at the end of the fight.
    It doesn't matter that you won 11 of the 12 rounds. You fell on the mat in the 12th round. EOS.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    The new Corvette is awesome. Could use a little better interior (steering wheel), but the Z06 has to be one of the best bangs for the buck.
    I would say the Nissan 370z and Z06 have to be the top bank for your buck cars out there.
  • stewpidasostewpidaso Member Posts: 45
    I would rather have the gtr over the z06 cheaper and will out muscle z06. On cheap side subie wrx or mzda speed3. no thnks on the rustangs. is Mazda still hand in hand w/ ford? seems like they r parting ways?
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    True, but the GT-R is pushing $90K.
    Fully equipped Z is $40K and the Z06 is $60k. I like the new V-10 Audi R8, but it runs close to $200K
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    While I think the functionality of the GTR displays are very cool, the interior is far from being clean. It's a bit busy. That said, at least it doesn't have the same steering wheel as a Sentra and when I looked at one at the Chicago Auto show (granted I couldn't get to close but the door was open) the interior appeared to have quality materials, which you can't say for the Corvette.

    But you can't deny the value the Corvette offers. It is a great performing car for the money. Some may think paying extra for a Porsche is a waste, but to me the subtle differences and attention to detail are worth paying for if you can afford it. Kind of the same reason I prefer my Tag Heuer watch over a Timex or Citizens etc. Doesn't keep time any better, but I value the design, detail and durability. Obviously the same would apply to the likes of even higher end watches like Breightling, Rolex, etc.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    True, but the GT-R is pushing $90K.
    Fully equipped Z is $40K and the Z06 is $60k. I like the new V-10 Audi R8, but it runs close to $200K


    Yeah, but the ZR-1 is north of $100k and you still get a Cobalt quality steering wheel. But I doubt your looking at the steering wheel when unleashing 600+hp:) Well at least I hope not. LOL
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    of the Vette I was thinking of, the ZR-1. That's the one I was talking about getting if I was made of money. North of $100,000 better get me a whole lotta vehicle, boys. A Cobalt-similar steering wheel would definitely not kill the ZR-1 deal for me, either, BTW.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • stewpidasostewpidaso Member Posts: 45
    hmmm. z06 starting msrp is 75k gtr's msrp is 83k. prolly could knock more of the vette in negotioations though. If i only had the money ;)
  • ingvaringvar Member Posts: 205
    GT-R could be driven in a snow. With a good winter tires it could compete with any car. Z06 with winter tires will be PITA in a snow.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Huh?
  • stewpidasostewpidaso Member Posts: 45
    they're still overpaid, my buddy gets paid $22 hr. to stick on bumper trim over and over.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Hey, the GT-R has the best display in history. They teamed up with Sony and Grand Turismo to make the most usable and fun displays and options.
    I cant wait till they make a 500 HP two seater version and trim 200 pounds. Bad [non-permissible content removed].
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    True, the GT-R has 4wd and even a winter option.
    The ZR1 would be a death trap in the snow, even with the best winter tires known to man.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    The Corvette interior really does look like an after thought. I reeks of cheapness. Looks like a little kid put it together. I wonder if the drivers seat rocks like the one in the Solstice.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    Hey, the GT-R has the best display in history. They teamed up with Sony and Grand Turismo to make the most usable and fun displays and options.

    I don't like it. It's just way too random, like they took the dash display from one car, the center stack from another, the console from yet another, and then tried to force-fit them together the best they could. And the icing on the cake is the round HVAC vents, popping up at random like canker sores.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    image
    2009 Honda Civic

    into this

    image
    2010 Kia Forte sedan

    Well, and it it's a big well, there are some strong similarities there! Once again, I think Kia has out-styled Honda and easily out-styled the Toyota Corolla with this new Forte sedan. The new Koup is awesome looking, too. And Kia has a better Warranty than either Honda or Toyota. The only Toyota I can look at is the Scion lineup, unless you count an occasional stare at the Yaris sedan. And that look is usually pretty short.

    But the point I'm making is that I always appreciate the enthusiast's design details Kia pens in to their bodystyles. I even noticed it when they were taking the Civic on with their 1998-2001 style Kia Sephia, of which I partook, BTW. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The DTS looks like the kind of car I would buy too! By the way, I LOVED the car Jerry bought for his Pop! If my son ever did something that awesome for me, I'd be ultra emotional and crying, "Thank you! I love you, son!" :cry:
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    To each his own. If you watch the review, some of the features of the GT-R are really amazing. That display does things you only hear about in F1 cars.
    That being said, Gran Turismo is a video game. The target market for that car is mostly Japanese and under 40 American men.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,682
    Sounds like the juvenile value system of bigger is better. Noone would want a civic then would they?

    Malibu Torque 160 lb/ft @ 4500
    Accord Torque 162 lb/ft @ 4400

    Big whoop difference.

    Malibu Hp 169 @ 6400 rpm
    Accord Hp 190 @ 7000 rpm

    I wonder what the hp is for the Accord at 6400.
    Most people aren't going to drive the cars screaming at 6400 rpm or 7000 rpm

    Please read my post to which you replied. That will be my response.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    You go Lemko. If that car makes you happy, than buy it.
    I will say this though, if I tried to pick up a lady in a DTS she would probably think Sopranos.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What the heck do you have?!?!? $1,000 for SNOW TIRES?!?!? Are you driving one of those big dump trucks they use in the West Virginia strip mines? Snow tires are about $200 a pair, if that!

    You think a Grand Marquis is a luxury car? :confuse: A Grand Marquis is just an inexpensive full-size car. Heck, I can easily do a U-turn with a Grand Marquis on a crowded city street with no problem.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Really? My goomah loves my Cadillac DTS!
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    So torque is more important? They look pretty identical.

    Lets look at sales figures for 2008.
    Accord: 372,789
    Malibu: 178,253

    Wow, that is more than two to one.

    And lets look at the Consumer Reports score:
    Accord 4cyl: 88
    Malibu 4cyl: 74

    Wow, that is a 14 point difference.
    And don't tell me CR is biased. They rate the Chevy and CMC truck the highest.

    Or what of Edmund's summary of the Malibu's twin, the Aura (same engine, same platform):
    In our long-term wrap-up of the Honda Accord we wrote: "Honda's not-too-sporty but not-too-comfortable persona meant it was never the first choice when it came to choose a ride from our test fleet, but it also was never the last one picked." Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the Saturn Aura which, when it wasn't in the shop, was frequently the last one picked.
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=121777
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Hey, to each his own. You can fit a lot of bodies in that trunk.

    I got to hand it to you though Lemko, unlike some other GM defenders you do make good points. You own what you defend and you don't make excuses for Astro vans. You are true GM fan, you appreciate their best product.

    All though I am against any loans to the D3, I do hope that they can make competitive cars and Corvettes with nice interiors. The next generation Malibu should be a world beater with direct injection.
    I think Ford has made many good steps. If only they would revamp the Explorer. :sick:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, but have you ever seen the interior of some of these exotics? They're extremely crude. I think Enzo Ferrari once said of his cars, "You pay for the engine and chassis and we throw in the body for free!"
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Seeing those gorgeous Buicks (the Electra is a '66, I think) painfully reminds us how far the General has fallen. Back in the 50s & 60s, GM knew how to design & build cars that Americans wanted to buy. Then it began to stumble in the 70s & fell flat on its corporate face in the 80s, which was truly a lost decade for the company. (When I think of a GM car from the 1980s, I recall the bustleback Seville, which was a big hit with North Jersey wise guys & the gold chain set.)

    It's so sad.
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