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http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/228258/Car-Wreck-How-Did-U.S.-Auto-- Industry-Crash?tickers=gm,f,dai
They took our jobs!
Not a believer in big government but asking for bailout money. :lemon:
Rocky, I think you are finally getting the picture. There is NO difference between unions like the AMA and the UAW. They get together with one thing in mind. Ripping the rest of US OFF! The high price of doctors and the high price of cars. Can all be traced back to the high wages extorted by the UNIONS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Automation_of_foundry_with_robot.jpg
Watch out UAW, the Terminator is coming for your jobs!
They took our jerbs! They took our jerbs!
You will not find many illegals that left a job in Mexico with any of the automakers. Those jobs pay a VERY good living wage for Mexico. I think we have enough pollution to not be worrying about Mexico's.
I think the best furniture can nowadays be found at the thrift store because it was still made in the USA by American craftsmen.
We do most of our shopping at Thrift stores for furniture and cloths. Made in China furniture is very cheaply constructed and mostly grotesque designs. I suppose in you and Rocky's world you would try to Unionize the people that are working in the Thrift stores and put them out of business as the UAW has done to GM and C.
A girl who works with me is going to bartending school.
I think Rocky has another of his misconceptions. Working as a bar tender does not mean you are part of the bar scene. You are making money off of the millions of people that still have good jobs and can afford to go out. I would not recommend a bar for young people as they do not tip as well and they like to get in fights. Same for many dive bars. My own dream was to be a bar tender on a beach in Hawaii or the South Pacific. If I ever fell on hard times that would be my first choice. I would not make a good WalMart greeter. I get bored too easily.
Since the 1977 I've had 9 GM cars. Guess I got the other 9 cars produced that Lemko missed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also on Obama's plate: an immigration bill
By Julia Preston
New York Times
Posted: 04/08/2009 09:15:00 PM PDT
While acknowledging that the recession makes the political battle more difficult, President Barack Obama plans to begin addressing America's immigration system this year, including looking for a path for illegal immigrants to become legal, a senior administration official said Wednesday.
Obama will frame the new effort — likely to rouse passions on all sides of the highly divisive issue — as "policy reform that controls immigration and makes it an orderly system," said the official, Cecilia Munoz, deputy assistant to the president and director of intergovernmental affairs in the White House.
He said then that comprehensive immigration legislation, including a plan to make legal status possible for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, would be a priority in his first year in office. Latino voters turned out strongly for Obama in the election.
There are a lot more Latino voters than UAW voters. Are you ready to go under the Obama BUS?
It is the same as the unfunded mandates politicians laid on schools through the decades. The pol sits at a desk collecting lobbyist money and favors and to buy votes makes the public think he's making those schools shape up. So the pol passes unfunded mandates. That increases the cost of the education to the state and local taxpayer. In Ohio the drumbeat for years has been about the unfunded mandates increasing our school costs with little impact on improving education. It must be nice to be a politician and just buy votes.
Even Toyo has asked for $2 billion from Japanese.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If one was not an adult during the miserable and incompetent Carter years, then they cannot imagine how gloomy, depressed where the American populace in the late 70's until Regan was elected. Reagan came along and lifted American spirits and extolled the greatness/kindness of the U.S. and the American people. He, Walesa and the Pope were the inspiration to peoples in Poland and other east European countries to fight against and end Soviet domination. Reagan brought about the ultimate collapse of Soviet Union.
Reagan also stood up to an illegal strike by the aircraft controllers union, Patco,. Too bad that GM, Chrysler and Ford did not follow Reagan's example during the 80's and 90's and throttle back the UAW. Reagan was a pro-union man in earlier years having served as Director and later President of the Screen Actors Guild Union for about 14 years.
No other president in the last 100 years is even close to Reagan. Thank you for setting the record straight for these youngsters that only believe crap they get in public schools. You had to be around in the Carter debacle to realize just how bad it really was. This is nothing compared to late 1970s. Unless you think that 20% interest on a car loan is a good deal. Of course back then a car did not cost as much as a whole block of houses in Detroit. We can thank the high cost of cars on our greedy friends in the UAW.
If you look at the CAFE standards signed in 2007, it is only a modest increase that affects every car manufacture. The easiest way to meet these standards is just to lower horse power.
If you look at the arguments of CAFE standard you notice that they come from the Detroit 3 and labor. The technology costs money that comes out of the UAW's pie.
A small price to pay to be less dependent on foreign oil.
Historically, automakers and some conservative groups have believed consumers don't prioritize fuel economy. In 2003, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers spokesman Eron Shosteck asserted automakers produce more than 30 models rated at 30 mpg or more for the US market, and they are poor sellers. In 2004, GM retiree Charles Amann said statistically, consumers do not pick the weak-performing vehicle when given a choice of engines. However, a 2006 Consumer Reports survey concluded fuel economy is the most important consideration in consumers' choice of vehicle and a 2007 Pew Charitable Trusts survey found that nine out of ten Americans favor tougher CAFE standards, including 91% of Democrats and 85% of Republicans.
But was it right, do we need more regulation? :confuse:
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/228536/Americans-Were-%22Living-in-- a-Fool's-Paradise%22-That's-Gone-Forever-Soros-Says?tickers=%5EDJI,%5EGSPC,SPY,DIA,QQQ- Q,TLT
Yup. That's my point. I didn't see congressfolk and bureaucrats giving up part of their salaries to pay the costs of meeting a higher CAFE.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
chikoo: "I had a floorsweeper who had never operated machinery, but as he swept floors he always had ideas on how to make the machines work better. pure aptitude. He rose to become my second in command from a mere floorsweeper."...I would gamble on a few points here...first, he was probably paid low as a sweeper, but worked his way up, and, as his value to the company increased, was eventually paid much more as 2nd in command...I will also gamble that supporting a family of 4 was difficult as a sweeper, but much easier as 2nd in command...hence, he worked his way up to earn more and be worth more to the company...this gamble of mine is void if the sweeper was your father...:):):)
somebody asked about the cars i own and have owned...1965 Mustang, 1972 Pontiac Ventura, 1982 T-Bird, 1983 Grand Marquis; from 1985-1998, 4 Hondas, some of the best cars I have ever owned, 1998 Regal, 2000 Intrepid, 2000 Sable, 2004 Crown Vic, 2004 Dodge Ram...I have owned both domestic and import, and my Hondas were, IMO, the best made cars...why did I buy Big 3 since 1998???...because as much as I scream and rail against the UAW, I thought I should try and keep my $$$ in America, but after owning Hondas, I fully understand why Americans have deserted the Big 3 in droves...
rocky: my next car will probably be a 1-2 year old STS, Jag XJ8 (American owned in those years until sold by Ford in 2008), maybe a Lexus LS 430 used...the Caddy and Jag are in a tie for 1st place...I just have to decide whether I want the Caddy for more dealers to repair or take a chance on the luxury of the Jag, but fewer dealers in Alabama and Mississippi in case I break down...:):):)
That is all the barbs thrown at me I remember...I am sure I missed a few...
Oh, yeah...rocky...I know the difference between Rush and Dobbs...it is just intereesting that anyone YOU listen to makes sense, and anyone the rest of us listen to is junk...yet who employs Dobbs???...CNN, the Ted Turner network, a one world gov't person if ever there was one...
If I had to say one bad thing that Reagan's legacy, it is the budget deficit. All those arms races cost big bucks and he didn't pay for them straight from the coffers. What's worse, 20 years later Dick Cheney pushed even bigger deficits under pretence that Reagan "proved" they didn't matter. They did - then and now. Then, because of those deficits Bush (41) had no choice but raise taxes, which of course was nail in his coffin. Now, because we have Jimmy Carter II in the office - hopefully not for long.
To credit to our Dallas, Fintail and Rocky friends - many others say they want free market, but only when it applies to somebody else's businesses. people say they want low taxes and they say they want low government services, but what they really mean is low services in areas they happen not to use at the moment (retired people don't want to pay for schools, young people don't want Medicare etc.). They want to be "left alone", but they definitely like to make their neighbor cut the grass and feed their children the same way as they do. And so on. Our unionite friends are at least open about their demand for the rest of the American and the Wolrd to dole out for their lifestyle
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Just as people call Barry a one worlder, yet his opponent was being schooled by Kissinger, one of the most sinister and despicable one worlders who have sadly been allowed to exist.
How much money will Germany and others dole out so the EU can redistribute it to Poland? :P
Free marketeers are capitalists only when convenient. They will collude and work for so-called socialist ideals as bad as the worst union at all other times.
I don't understand all these Regan defenders. They are pro-freemarket economy and pro-union. You can't have the best of both worlds. :P
"Free" is a subjective word isn't it. But we can agree Poland is "freer" than it was under the Communists. I mean the minefields, guards, dogs and other barriers to keep everyone safely in :P are gone.
The writing has been on the wall for a long-time that factory jobs in the U.S. are going to be low-middle income jobs (as they should be if you only have a high school education, and don't want to take risks of starting your own business).
Perhaps some need to realize that absolutes cannot exist, whether it be an absolute libertarian style "free market", or an absolute union controlled labor market.
The old adage is that freedom isn't free...."free markets" aren't free either.
I drive a car that has a sticker which reads "Proudly assembled by AAI".
The car however was designed mostly outside of USA.
Interestingly it's powerplant was assembled in Michigan.
Enjoy!!
Pressures are on to make those jobs "low-middle income", but maybe not by western standards. Globalization isn't a race for the best, it's a race to the bottom.
you are absolutely correct.
>this gamble of mine is void if the sweeper was your father...
Ah...my Father. He was an achiever. a doer. I only wish I can reach the heights he did during his career and lifetime.
271 dealer closings last quarter, most of them D3 dealers.
I agree 100%.
I was a young kid in the 70's but I can remember how bad things were. I remember family extended family Christmas's where no presents were exchanged 'cause those who hadn't lost their job were scared that they might (I guess you really remember when Santa was hurting LOL).
I remember we moved to a 1 year old house in late '78 and it was a foreclosure (which there was a bunch of them as builders were going under left and right). I remember my dad telling me he was very happy being able to buy it at $20k under it's original selling price and he was able to get a loan for around 10% which he said was a great rate at the time. Ironically, the house he sold to get the new one doubled in price from when he bought it in ''74 and sold it '78 (this was in northern Indiana).
I also remember the many horrible cars in the 70's. My dad had a '73 Torino that rusted out and needed a valve job by the time it was 4 years old and had 30k miles on it. His replacement '79 Caprice was always leaving us stranded too. I remember my aunt's '78 or '79 Zepher being junk and her '82 Mustang which severely overheated the day she bought it on her way home from the dealership to the point it needed a whole new engine.
Back then no one was saying, "They took our jerbs!"
Looks Obama's team is taking the gloves off with the bondholders. Next stop UAW.
They took our jerbs! is not going to resonate with these guys.
The UAW "worked" really hard to establish a reputation for junk, and they wonder why it has come back to bite them...fool my once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me...
There are, I would guess, MILLIONS of Americans that will never step foot in a Big 3 dealership for the next 100 years...nobody cares about "their neighbor's job" when their neighbor makes absolute junk...
Talk about attitude...when I was in Detroit in the 80s, I would often ask UAW workers "what am I supposed to do while the car you made spends weeks in the dealer's repair shop?"....their answer, to a man, was this (and I am not joking): "Pal, it's YOUR problem now, you bought it, it's yours"...
The first time I heard that, I realized that the UAW was a bunch of ignorant, arrogant idiots, and that someday that attitude would come back to bite them...
It took a little longer than I thought...
Rocky, one of them could have been your family, because that is the attitude of ALL of them..."Buy my product, but don't expect ME to stand behind what I make...oh, and please buy another, or I may lose my job"...
They can go straight to H*ll...the entire UAW ain't worth minimum wage...of 1985...
-Rocky
I remember when I was working at Boeing and we always talked about education, hell, Boeing was always ready to chop our heads off at any whim and desire of any gloppy-raspberry donut eating, Starbuck's slurping grey suited know-it-all.
Honestly, I worked for Boeing for 20 years and some change. It is a fantastic job, full of challenge and very stressful at times. The stress at Boeing can be enormous when they want you to get a new customer's orders out pronto. The Starbuck's flowed like milk and honey, occasionally someone would lose it and yell at someone else. Occasionally a female employee would have to run to the restroom in tears. No kidding, the place was bathed in stress.
For all of the high prices, road rage, heavy traffic, 90's Supersonic's victories under George Karl coaching Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton, that job making and revising Tubing, Attach Point and Electrical Production Illustrations on 747, 767 and 777 Boeing widebody jetliners was a great job. You will read me whine about it on here, but, I was prepared to work there for 20 more years and then retire fat, happy and although not rich, well-paid.
Didn't happen. rockford...was I to give up and cry in to my Dr.Pepper?
The fact that we could get Trade Act re-training in 2003 after our Boeing jobs, and get weekly State of Washington Unemployment checks for the entire time we attended college(good for an Associate's Degree) was too good to be true. I remember saying "Really?" to one of my Boeing buddies after he told me that. Uncle Sam paid for the books and tuition in full as well. Wow.
That following weekend my wife and I drove north 25 miles to what I was thinking would be a more substantial library than that of the Skagit Valley town we lived in's, Burlington, WA. We headed up to the Bellingham, WA, library.
rock, ya know how long it took me to decide I wanted to be trained to be a Respiratory Therapist? About an hour and a half. I scoured all of the job books, all of the what-d-ya wanna be when ya grow up books of any variety available to me.
Guess what two jobs made my new Job's Finals? Respiratory Therapist and Hotel Management. Both were growing fields in 2003. Nursing at that time was growing 50% and Respiratory Therapy was growing at a 45% clip.
So off we went, enjoying the beauty of Whatcom County and then heading south to our home County of Skagit County, enjoying viewing the huge fields of tulips and daffodils starting to pop up. I knew that I needed to get this hammered out ASAP, lingering was not a viable option for my wife and I and our Norwegian Forest cat, Tabitha, and our two Poms, Abby and Rocky.
No time to blame others, although Boeing was not my favorite Company on the planet at that time. I decided that Saturday evening that I would take Uncle Sam, Boeing, and the state of Washington up on their offer to all laid-off employees.
There were get aquainted workshops to attend. I checked out a book or two on Respiratory Therapy to get acquainted with what was to become my new work-life companion. Like my Boeing job, it looked challenging and potentially rewarding at the same time. Done. Deal is done.
Was it easy? No way! rocky, I am telling you it can be done. I no longer live in Washington state, I'm in Cochise County, Arizona, where Geronimo used to roam. There are illegals all over this County, so far they appear to leave us alone. Our hospital is moving up, buying new equipment and installing new signage, I may even get a pay increase this year. Our benefits are already the best in any hospital in southern Arizona.
It can be done, rocky, even someone like you, can do it. I came from a manufacturing job at Boeing. People can change workframes.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
My ex girlfriend lemko, has a criminal justice degree. Everyone has cut back on police due to budgets. When you have plants closing there doors left and right well that is a loss of tax revenue meaning no funding to hire police. She has applied for jobs out of state in places Georgia. I think once this stimulus money hits these cities we could see some hiring but as some have said what will happen once the money dry's up??? I'm not sure I'm police officer material. There is too much paper work and all they do is write tickets to generate revenue. That wouldn't a fun job in my books as I'd want to let most people go.
-Rocky
You may not like globalization, but then as we just discussed with Poland, are the alternatives worse? Nationalism - the Us vs. Them led to numerous wars in the 20th century. The Our tribe is better than Your tribe, we're human and special vs. the servant, poorer other nations (colonialism) don't work very well historically. A lot of injustice there.
Communism doesn't work very well in practice, because of human nature, with 2 classes of the Rulers and the Strictly Ruled Poor come into being.
So maybe you tell me what's better than globalization, which a highly paid union doesn't have much place. I think what you'll suggest is some ideal system, which human-nature being what it is; such a system could never exist.
Look thru thousands of years of history and all the different types of political structures, and tell us what was better then where we currently are. It's just not a world ameniable to a small group of workers demanding above average wages, and extremely high compared to the majority of the world.
-Rocky
Huh; funny your ex-girl was named lemko(?), just like lemko here.
-Rocky
-Rocky
They did??? I don't buy that theory. The History Channel has even debunked that theory. To be honest I'm not sure who built those pyramids but I don't believe it was the slaves.
-Rocky
You know, I wonder if this is a problem w/ higher education, and the perception many have about it.
It only makes sense that someone with a degree in something specific (engineering, pharmacy, etc) would fare better than someone w/ a more generic degree.
But, try telling an 18 yr old what to study, or even have them make up their mind at that age.
Don't kid yourself - don't dare use the word "justice" when discussing the globalized new world order. It's not about the good of the masses, it is about the good of the few. Human nature yet again. It's not about bringing others up to some theorized humane worldwide standard of living, it is about moving some down for the profit of those who never answer for their actions, those who have been behind previous wars and slaughters, and those who will be behind misery in the future.
"So maybe you" give your predictions of the benevolent socio-economic conditions for the developed world to be produced by your beloved one world ideal. Your questions are moot and amusing coming from one who does not wish to address the negative impacts and externalities of the ideal he embraces. Just like in Europe, some are unwilling to face the bleak future they are creating.
Besides, the benefits we have now are both not a product of globalization, which is only a few decades old - and what we have today is essentially artificial anyway, trinkets and distractions allowed to the masses to distance them from their own demise.
-Rocky
I don't think this made you "lucky" as you did it legally. You say you get better pay because you are better than you co-workers. This is fine, as your co-workers are not getting stiffed.
The ones that get bottom dollar for fear of being deported are not here LEGALLY, and that is a big difference. THEY hurt our salaries by accepting artifically low wages and say nothing for that exact reason you state.....FEAR...... If they came in as you did, they should have nothing to fear.
I don't think any of them are taking vacations to Europe, thus they are still poor. Just because you earn something more than another person doesn't make you well off!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky