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Comments
But what we need to do is drop the social security and medicare payments along with the medicaid and welfare payments to that of the lower cost regions of the world. UAW people have a reason to come back with that logic. Sometimes people are very glib about passing off that somewhere else those jobs pay less. In many cases those people would not want their social security payouts and other government subsidies to drop in the same manner, whether they draw those welfare payments now or may draw them later.
Hmmmm, I wonder what the government retirement is in Mexico? Anyone know? Rocky?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am not a UAW member nor am I even remotely connected to the auto industry. I have actually done quite well for myself. I have selfish reasons for wanting GM and the UAW to remain alive. I really, really love the cars they build, especially Cadillacs and Buicks! I want those cars to be built by Americans! I want the people who build them to live well! I have done well for myself, but I can't enjoy prosperity when my fellow Americans suffer so immensely through no fault of their own.
1) Because they can't survive unless someone is employing them. They have no initiative or idea on how to make a living unless someone hires them.
OK, You believe everybody should have their own business. How do they go about raising capital to start a business? They get a job and earn money, save it, and then start that business. OK, now how are they going to raise enough capital to start a business when they're working a McJob and are so poorly paid every single dime goes towards their mere survival?
2) They think that whether they work or not that they are entitled to a big piece of the pie.
A vast majority of the elite believe they are entitled to the entire pie because of their last name.
3) Whether it be the government or the company they are making big-money from, they openly detest the leaders feeding them. i.e. Biting the hand that feeds them, and they would otherwise starve.
No, I think a lot of times the company bites them first, feeds them poorly, or both. Let's say I feed my dog really well and he gets the ultimate veterinary care. However, I'm a psychopath who gets my kicks out of torturing him both physically and mentally. The dog doesn't care that I feed him well if I'm a sadistic jerk. The dog's going to turn around and bite me.
Same thing happens with a company. I can pay my employees well and give them gold-plated health care, but if I constantly threaten them with layoffs, outsourcing, cutting their pay and benefits, neglecting their safety or deliberately putting them in harms way for my profit, or doing anything else that would negatively affect their well being, they're going to turn around and bite me.
Having lived down there you will find entry for more than a vacation VERY tough. Forget getting a job, unless you are hired up here to go down as a supervisor. When I got my Visa to live in Rosarito Beach, I had to prove I had income and would not be a drag on their economy. Hmmm, wonder why we don't do that? They also have very tough unions to protect the Mexican workers from exploitation. Maybe it would be just what an ex UAW worker would like.
I'm in the process of writing a letter to the editor supporting "card check". Without it Americans will remain forever as serfs under the thumb of the crony capitalists. The financiers and the elite are fighting this tooth and nail and are scared to death that they are going to lose their total control over Washington and all the peripheral issues such as CEO compensation, unfair/unfree trade, unregulated hedge funds, and the Wall Street smoke and mirror products that have destroyed our economy. Unions once wielded enormous power and I'd like to see them get a enough back to balance out the power of the crony elitists
There are powerful special interests that every politician must kowtow to who are at the heart of America's problem. They feign one agenda when their real agenda is keeping their own cabal rich and powerful and capable of dipping into the nest egg of all Americans at will and controlling government.
Average Americans need to develop an organization that puts average Americans First. If done right it could usurp the power of these lesser but far wealthier organizations that have agendas that obviously control Washington and end up ripping the heart out of America.
Better think about what you wish. You will be one of the targets with your big fat Cadillac. You and Rocky seem to think this concept of ultra rich and very poor is something new. The Cities of America have ALWAYS had scads of poor people eating out of garbage cans. That includes Philadelphia from the time it was the center of our Nations Government.
At that same time America was unique with its middle class. John Adams was middle class. Never wealthy though he had more than some at the end of his life. Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were both wealthy land owners with slaves.
I just don't see where the UAW has been able to exist with their inflated wages and benefits. They are priced above the average wage for unskilled labor in this country. They have been for at least 60 years. Now the remaining few are going to join the rest of the unskilled workers in this country. The UAW workers had a chance to get an education. Those that took advantage of the big bucks while it was there will do just fine. Those that did not may become part of the millions living in slum conditions in one of the large cities. Many will be homeless. Is that your fault or mine? You will never wrestle the money from the rich. The richest man today is no where as rich as Rockefeller when you take into consideration the value of the dollar.
If Rocky's step dad is a millwright he may be able to get a job setting up new factories in states that are not over regulated and have protection from labor unions like the UAW. Maybe in some exotic city in Mexico. The bottom line is they are moving out of Michigan. Just like they all left Philadelphia. Those that have good jobs like you will survive in style. Those that did not plan ahead may be on the street. Past performance is no guarantee of future benefits.
People here think I am jealous of what the UAW is paid...I am not in any way...but you summed it up quite well...the jobs they do are, for the most part, considered unskilled labor...with the exception of the UAW causing the cost of a new car to spiral out of control, most unskilled labor is paid much less than the UAW, simply because the skill level is not required to do it...rocky forgets that many of those toothless, uneducated hicks from the South in the 50s and 60s moved up North for autoworker jobs...so, by HIS definition, if those stupid Southern hicks could be, and WERE, trained to do the UAW work, then by HIS definition, any idiot could be trained to do it, probably in less than a day...
He wants it both ways...he wants to criticize the South for being hicks, compliment the UAW for the skill level involved for what they do, then he forgets that many of the South moved up there to do that very work, so if the hicks can do it, it certainly does not need much intelligence to do it, or the uneducated hicks would never have done it...
They rose to power in a day when there was no competition...oddly enough, when competition finally arrived from the Japanese, the Big 3 CRUMBLED...their quality, work habits and overall vehicle reliability was crap, except two cars owned by lemko...like the bully on the block who cowers down when someone stands up to him, the UAW found they simply could not compete because their work habits, alcoholism, absenteeism and restrictive work rules simply would not allow a quality product to be manufactured...the UAW caused it own demise because their workers were/are unable to make a quality product that can adequate compete with Honda and Toyota...I am NOT happy to say this, but rocky and his ilk hope that by hiding their collective heads in the sand, that Big 3 quality will improve and the Japanese will go home...
The ONE thing the UAW is incapable of offering is quality in their products...amazing how it took this many years for the Malibu and CTS to become this good, like no one has been watching...
UAW cars lost major market share because they were junk...period...not because I say so, because the market says so...while the UAW rah rah team laments the loss of jobs, no where do they look in the mirror and wonder where THEY went wrong...even when Japanese cars cost more, Americans are willing to pay more because of the HUGE quality gap...what does the UAW do???...fight for more protectionism, depriving Americand of the quality in automobiles they deserve...does the UAW ever stand up and say they WILL make the best cars in the world???...no, they fight for the Jobs Bank so that workers can sharpen their welfare entitlement skills at being paid to do nothing...great skills to teach your children, 17 ways to get paid for doing nothing and/or making junk for the US market...and I thought that was restricted to the inner city welfare recipients, but it also includes the UAW...
They have had a long run because the Big 3 did not know when to fight back hard, so they capitulated and now the companies are bankrupt simply because the money is not there...the profits are not there...the UAW cost structure/work structure has priced them out of the business of carmaking, so now their jobs are gone and to this day, they are barely intelligent enough to figure out why...no wonder, they are those Southern uneducated hicks that rocky likes to talk about...
The UAW has simply priced itself out of the market, because the skill level required to perform the job is not worth what they are paid...they beat the system for years, because we would buy the cars as their prices went up yearly...but every price has its breaking point, and when a Chevrolet has a sticker of $40,000, that breaking point is reached...no Chevrolet is worth $40K simply because it is too much to pay for GM's lowest level of vehicle...
It isn't that wages failed to keep up with inflation, its that the inflated cost of housing and automobiles went up much FASTER than average wage inflation...so, while most things went up a few percentage points a year, cars went up much faster, and housing went up even faster than that...
When housing went up 10% a year, that far exceeded the rate of inflation...have that go on for 5 years, and the person's wage increases keep falling farther and farther behind (euphemistically called the Law of Receding Horizons)...this necessitates the spouse needing a job or the first spouse needing a second job...now add to that the rapidly rising cost of a new car, and the family is tapped out, or financing the car for 7 years...it is not that wages failed to keep up, it is that the car and house, our two largest purchases, went up so fats that wages had no chance to keep up...
While housing had its own rules with crooked appraisers "documenting" housing going up 10-15% a year, the UAW had its hand in causing auto costs to rise...they priced their product out of their own market...
And, despite all that, GM still could not turn a profit for years...don't tell me how good Wagoner was...he was the textbook case of an abject failure...
Chapter 11 downsizing will hopefully be the solution...
Ha ha....talk about it.....I had a floorsweeper who had never operated machinery, but as he swept floors he always had ideas on how to make the machines work better. pure aptitude. He rose to become my second in command from a mere floorsweeper.
Are you saying your are successful because of chance or dumb luck? I have a feeling you made choices to enhance your earning power and sacrificed to achieve it.
If you feel so bad, I'm sure someone in need would gladly accept donations and you can share your wealth.
I volunteered my time and donated money to Big Brothers and Big sisters and it was a very rewarding and enlightening experience.
There's a reason the globalization supporters also come up with ideas like surveillance grids, weapon registration, email monitoring on a nationwide basis (see England), thought police, destructive immigration, and so on. It's seen as a way to prevent future hostilities.
The movement is so strong now no union can do anything about it.
The editor of WHAT?
Average Americans need to develop an organization that puts average Americans First.
America is FULL of organizations.
-Rocky
Wow it's nice knowing somebody else loves him as much as I do!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
What did your dad do and how old was he???
What is a screw machine? Please don't tell me it is a giant screw driver?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_machine
http://www.rdscrew.com/pix/acme_02.jpg
I believe my father ran ACME to make Multec 2 Fuel Injector parts at Delphi Coopersville. He had to make some cuts a millionth of a millimeter and if they weren't perfect they sent the bad ones to Kia.
They took our jerbs! And made better cars. Rocky, what did the average guy buying an Astro-van look like?
It varied. All walks of life pal. It is that way with pretty much any brand. Most van customers were a married guy or women who wanted something roomy with decent gas mileage.
-Rocky
-Rocky
No Joke. But the Astro wasn't that ugly lemko!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I and lemko, should be entitled to it. My family like many others faught in both world wars and many died. They sacrificed there life for this country so that there relatives and offspring could have a free country to prosper in and your globalist elites want to sell what they died for down the river to make another buck. It is treason in my opinion and yes we are headed for a society like Russia, in the 1900's if it is even that good. :mad:
I've always thought the UAW and other unions were the sheeple of the world; and arrogant ones at that. Why Sheeple?
1) Because they can't survive unless someone is employing them. They have no initiative or idea on how to make a living unless someone hires them.
2) They think that whether they work or not that they are entitled to a big piece of the pie.
3) Whether it be the government or the company they are making big-money from, they openly detest the leaders feeding them. i.e. Biting the hand that feeds them, and they would otherwise starve.
I can only assume you are self employed based on your comments. I'll put it to ya this way. If the working man didn't go off to war and fight to win so you could keep your business and your millions in the bank your business would be ran by the state right now. It would be ran by the German State as in the Third Reich. You would be working for the Führer and some big sturdy blond haired and blue eyed aryan German, would be telling you what to do and when to do it. The S.S. officer would say jump and your answer better be "how high"??? I know you have an elitist attitude and the UAW workers are no good, human beings and are below you. I feel sorry for you and the way you think.
Rocky - get rid of the excuses; grow up and realize your ancestors left their family across the ocean at some point. If there are no jobs, or jobs you like, and you are talented, then create your own job. There's nothing stopping you from running some sort of business. You think you know a lot well then you should be able to create and run a business. You may have to work 70-80 hr/week for a few years, but people do it.
I didn't read on further to the above paragraph but I'm not a bit suprised in what you had to say. First of all it takes a helluva alot of money to start a business and now days you better have something so unique as in no competition to survive. I don't have my "great uncles" creative mind who invented a few things and made a lot of money. I can only work with the mind I've been given. If I had the money I would open or buy a car dealership group. If I won the lottery tomorrow I would definetly own a business of some sorts.
So be a partner and lets do just that!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
The Japanese, made some decent cars if you lived where it didn't snow. You act like there interior were modern marvels. My buddies old Accord, had the plasticky hard dash that echoed like the domestics. The difference was the domestic was made of american steel while the Japanese cars were made out of the remains that surfaced from the Titanic, because the steel was brittle after a few winters. The paint bubbled also and the side of the cars would look like Nolan Ryan, was using them as a back stop with the baseball size holes in the doors and quarter panels.
All GM had to do was pay attention and use their superior might to simply MAKE A SUPERIOR PRODUCT...they didn't, and the UAW was no help either...
I can agree with some of that. They should of done a better job. Why do you think I hate Roger Smith, so bad??? The management team back then had a chance to push the envelope and they were ignorant. The UAW workers tried to make quality improvements and make things more efficient. My Grandfather was making six figure incomes from all of his suggestions that saved GM, millions of dollars. I agree the UAW should of been more open to the idea of automation but GM, had it in there minds that they were going to go global and instead of keeping the work here well they wanted a piece of the slave labor pie and went south and oversea's where they could exploit the population and had no EPA or OSHA to worry about. :mad: Ronnie, was giving them tax break gifts for doing it so why wouldn't they??? :mad: :sick:
Fast forward to today...you lament the fall of GM like it was an accident...only in the last few years have they made a car that was exemplary, like Malibu or CTS....where were those quality cars, and the rest of the GM line for the last 20 years???...no lemko, I do NOT want to hear about your damn Buicks, they are the ONLY good GM vehicles from that era, no one else seems to have one......
Are you really that blind??? We made Bonneville's, Impala's, Sevilles, Devilles, Aurora's, Riveria's, Regal, Intrigue, Lumina's, Grand Prix, Trans-Am's, Camaro's, not to mention class leading Trucks and SUV's. We make damn good cars today also. Lucerne, LaCrosse, Camaro will be a hit. The Aura, VUE, Outlook, Acadia, Enclave, Traverse, Malibu, Impala, CTS, STS, XLR, Corvette, DTS, G8, G6, 2010 Equinox will be a hit, Cruze will be a hit, Spark will be a hit, Volt will be a hit, Sky, Solitice, Yukon, Yukon Denali, Sierra, Sierra Denali, Escalade, Silverado, to name a few. If you want to still count Saab, as GM well you have the 9-3 which is one of the greatest cars in the world and I will shed some tears to see them be owned by someone else.
con't.........
Do you actually read my posts or do you just choose to read what you want to see??? Just a question? I have made it clear to you on more than one occassion that I think competition is good as it makes things cheaper for the consumer and better in most cases. However I want our businesses and workers to have a level playing field to fight the battle on. If we still loose then well so be it. What I can't stand is having some child chained to a machine like they do in China, and are forced to work like slaves or face starvation and when they are done working they are sold to some pervert for the night to satisfy his sexual fetish with children. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
The imports did NOT steal one UAW job...the UAW gave them all away by making junk for more years than we can count...not ONCE do you mention the quality gap between Big 3 and Japanese cars, just that some UAW idiot MUST have a job, regardless of the junk he is making...don't I have the right to the best product out there???...please tell me why the UAW never struck for better quality in their own products...you have NO insight whatsoever, just your welfare mentality from being raised in a welfare UAW family...the rest of the USA has watched how better cars are made, and you just stick your head in the sand...this is pitiful...
If the UAW workers and Big 3 make such horrible and awful cars then what the hell are you doing driving them??? You make no sense Marsha7??? :confuse: Please by all means don't drive a UAW or Big 3 car again if they are that awful. Please place a for sale sign in your car tomorrow and get you a camcord. I then wouldn't have to listen to you rant anymore which would be a blessing. Go buy some Japanese, import if there products are so superior.
The UAW workers have a say in there contract on what they will build today. Management back then told the union like hell you will tell us how to run our companies. When the federal mediators came in to solve these contracts they told the union you can't tell management how to run the company thus it was left alone. These are some of the facts you don't know about because you are so caught up with the media press releases of blaming the worker for all that went wrong with the Big 3. :sick:
You rail about conservative folks in the media, yet you think that Lou Dobbs does not have his own agenda???...so, we are fools for listening to Rush, but you have deep intelligence for listening to Lou Dobbs???
If you can't see the difference between Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh, I truly feel sorry for you Marsha7. It doesn't take any deep intelligence to see the difference between them. Lou Dobbs, is one person in the major media who is deeply concerned about the same issues as me. He can see what is going on and I have nothing but the highest respect for Lou Dobbs. Your agenda arguement is a joke. What is he gaining? He's unfortunately not running for public office. Rush, OTOH is a spokesman for the neocon globalist. He is a entertainer for the 2nd grade educated rednecks that swallow his hyperbole hook, line, and sinker. I again can't help you "see" the difference but I assumed a man who was intelligent enough to pass the BAR exam in his state would be able too??? :confuse:
...this, from the same guy who can't figure out that moving may be the best way to get a job, but still stays in the same area where there are no jobs and wonders why there is no work???...the same guy who states that additional education will only lead to a job at McD's, when poster after poster documents otherwise???...and THEN, you whine because GM would not have paid 100% tuition, which reveals more about your welfare mentality than anything else???...do you EVER take responsibilty for paying anything in your life???...does EVERYTHING have to be paid by someone else or else you called it a capitalistic ripoff???...do you ever think of taking responsibility for your own life other than whining about what you cannot get for free???
I love how you use the poster after poster comment as like they are the experts. It's easy playing armchair quarterback. I yes don't have some big degree like you but I do have some skills. Moving away to another location will not guarantee me a job or success. It will not guarantee me happiness. I know because I've done it. When I was knocking down $60K a year at Pantex, I was happy for about 6 months. Sure I had quite a few good times after that but my life was missing something. The women I married began to change and I thought I could replace my emotional connection with her that got worse with time and the distance away from my family here back home with money and material things. I grew up in a very close knit family. We not only celebrated holidays togeather but I also considered many of them my best friends as I hunted, fished, debated politics, played cards, talked cars and work with each of them. We helped each other out and my wife's family was distant and would give dirty looks to each other and was a chore to be around any of them as it was like walking on pin needles. It was a total opposite of what I was use too. I know to some what I'm saying is foreign and you don't know the difference. Sure the easy answer is a home is where you make it. I guess under the right circumstances I could relocate away if I had a special someone in my life for moral support and was glad to go home too at the end of a long day. I had neither when I lived in Texas, for 5+ years. I guess I'm open minded enough to say it's possible that I could move out of state but at this juncture it's not likely. It would have to be for more than just a job. I suppose what I had to say will have no affect on your opinion of me and my choice. I do feel optomistic enough to believe I will get my break someday hopefully sooner than later.
con't......
Yep and the question remains will they be around a couple of years after they file??? I think it's honestly a 50/50 chance at this juncture. :sick:
And you expect them to re-hire 250,000 UAW workers just so they have jobs, even tho there is no work for them to do...simply more welfare mentality form a brainwashed UAW family who, itself, was brainwashed into the fairy tale land of the UAW, thinking that anyone who can turn a screwdriver or close a door was worth $35/hour...
It is time to wake up...
I would still like to know where you come up with this $35 an/hr. figure??? :confuse: Do you think that if you keep repeating this fairy tale land hourly wage it will make it true??? :confuse:
Why we are at it can we "wake up" the fairy tale CEO's, Doctors, Lawyers, Insurance Companies, that are demanding these huge salaries and are only getting them because they pool togeather like a pack of wolves with there entitlement attitudes aka lawyers associations, etc. which work like unions??? :confuse:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Huh??? Are you referring to the Philosophy? If so I am giving you it with each post!!! :P I know I should start charging you guys like Slick Willy when I give speeches. :P :P If you were referring to the bar tender job well Rocky, is too old and has lost his lust many years ago for the bar scene.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I could ask Beth because she lived there for 5 years doing a internship. She might know???
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
Why don't we do that??? Why the double standard gagrice??? :mad:
They also have very tough unions to protect the Mexican workers from exploitation. Maybe it would be just what an ex UAW worker would like.
They are making gains but there not exactly that tough. The employers are still polluting the air, ground, and are paying poverty wages and is why so many of them are willing to risk there life to come here.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
They took our jerbs! They took our jerbs! They took our jerbs!
I still have a dresser that was made in 1954 by a furniture company from York, PA. The thing is as solid as the Rock of Gibraltar!
Yeah, it's tough to find US made furniture. Even pieces that are thousands of dollars seem to coming out of China.
If a person is not able to get himself where he can retire by 65, he will probably be looking at a WalMart greeter job, or like my dad was driving school bus at 75 in Roswell NM.
Don't knock slave labor. They built the pyramids that have lasted 5,000 years. Think any of your UAW built cars will last that long? We have slave labor in every major city in the USA. It was no big deal until it affected your precious auto industry. There are manufacturers hiring illegals in just about every state. They pay them slave wages below minimum much of the time. Not to worry, Obama is pushing to make them all LEGAL. Then they can compete with YOU on a level playing field. And many are bright enough to do any job in any auto plant in the world. Most would probably do a better job than Wagoner did running GM.