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Your Wall Street Journal, doesn't have all the facts. The catch on the education part would have to pertain to a job at GM. You couldn't become a Tool Maker, unless there was a opening for an apprentice. Did your Wall Street Journal, tell you that??? I didn't think so!!!! :mad:
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I'm very happy to have you here.
-Rocky
As is my families both active and retired. I can sympathize with you pal. :sick:
-Rocky
Baby Lemkos with Uncle Rocky! How cute! :P
They would have Hot Wheels Caddys and Buicks. :P
They would have Hot Wheels Caddys and Buicks.
LOL
-Rocky
If you didn't sell the funds you haven't lost one penny. The 401(k) was never intended to be a single source of retirement only a supplement to other types of savings social security etc. If your currently 40% down current contributions should earn a good return down the road (nothing is guaranteed in life but.. well you know). I know several union members that lost over half to all of their pension when their employer went belly up. 25 years of work meant no pension at all, those with over 30 lost over half depending on their age and total length of service. They didn't loose their 401k contributions though. Those were vested and still worth something and were their money, not turned over to the PBGC.
Not at my company. We have held 3 or 4 college fairs this year where we fly in and put up for a night 75-100 recent or soon-to-be graduates. We are looking for EE's, ME's, and programmers, and starting pay is in the $50K to $60K range. History majors need not apply, though :P .
So, there are jobs out there, even in today's bad economic times. Just need to have picked the right college degree to go after.
You just have to pick the right degree to go after! I keep telling you and your stubborn Norwegian blood won't let you hear with your heart...your UAW head keeps knocking the truth out of your noggin. I am telling you, most of the guys in here already know this, they're not UAW through and through, healthcare and "green" technology jobs are the right ones right now to get training in. Sometimes you have to move after getting your degree to find the right job and the right place, though, to get the right "fit" for you. I know, been there and done that very thing. Once you find it, though, you're in like flint. Even in this crappy economy. Right, gentlemen?
Yes, you can still get Security positions, but, by and large Healthcare and "Green" technology jobs of any and all sorts are the ones you should and could get a degree and training in. Even a "certificate" or "diploma" type of training would work. It's the "thought" that counts, right?
rock, buddy, we've been at this for a long time in here. You are part of the "Edmunds family" and we all want you to succeed. But just because some of us have degrees in different fields and we see the stubbornness of the UAW and their greed, that doesn't mean that they have voted correctly on some of those "wildcat" strikes or other types of strikes. Biting GM when they were down has come back to bite their collective butts.
I know from 20 years at Boeing the "Rah-Rah" mentality. I thought it was cheap then and I still can't stand that mentality now.I have lived it, been there, done that. Boeing is still a viable entity but thousands upon thousands of us fully retirement-pension vested have our Boeing pensions one day to look forward to, but nothing else, except our Boeing Credit Union memberships. Boeing's elite New World Order "leaders" have sold us out for stock profit. Neanderthals they might or may be, what do we fall back on after that, after them?
Your hand-picked stories of family members with healthcare degrees who can't get a job are worthless anecdotes cherry-picked to support your antiquated views on training.
Head to Wyoming or Arizona with your degree in Healthcare and jobs are there. You really should get outta da Midwest, bub. There's a lot of geographic beauty and a lot of nice people out West here, too. There is room to roam here in the Wild, Wild West where Geronimo used to roam. The old-style Boeing-type White Dog ran Geronimo down, the Cavalry, and loaded him and his people in to a railcar to Florida. Another warfare casualty well-done on the "homefront", eh?
Hell, what was becoming Cochise County while Geronimo was still loose was Geronimo's land to roam and chase down the White Dog. But that's another story for another day.
I just wanted you to know that re-training can work and is working right now. Also ponder this, rocky. Sometimes you even have to leave loved ones and family behind to find suitable employment. And leave their stubborn views behind, too. We are talking about economics, here, and situationable "fits" in employment.
Ronald Reagan was asked if people should move to find work during one of those horrible recessions of the 80's. His answer?
"By all means, go to where the jobs are", was his response. Twas a smart response between knawing on jellybeans of his favorite variety.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Go to the bars...that's were the steam comes off!
Regards,
OW
Unless you believe the US is toast, the business changes in the auto industry are a requirement if we are to even hope to lead again in autos.
Regards,
OW
Management wither supports their workers UP FRONT or they loose the best to the competition. What's more important is that you do not need to strike to fix safety conditions. A worker called OSHA in my small plant of 60 workers and they showed up in 2 weeks to do a full audit. Since we believe in safety and health, we passed the audit easily.
So, yes, it's a 2-way street and the UAW did their part. Times have changed and the model is now unworkable. Too expensive.
Regards,
OW
Time to restructure...DRASTICALLY.
Regards,
OW
So, there are jobs out there, even in today's bad economic times. Just need to have picked the right college degree to go after.
No doubt, even in these tough times many companies are still hiring. One of my best friend's wife works in software development project management. She makes around $140k working out of her house. She got laid off this year and had another job making the same money within a few months and the only reason it took that long is she didn't start her job search for several weeks while she was deciding whether she wanted to stay home with the kids or not.
My wife's company still recruiting all the time. Hiring has slowed for some positions and they have eliminated positions out of the corporate office. My wife has been hiring Pharmacists all year long. $55/hr + benefits to start for college grads plus time and a 1 1/2 for over 40 hrs. The only thing that's changed is she is no longer offering $30k signing bonuses, but many areas that are short of RPHs are still offering signing bonuses of $10-40k. Just got be smart enough and have the grades to get into Pharmacy school.
I'll say again, the few people I know that have gotten the axe have all found new work making the same or better money in a fairly short amount of time and they all weren't in healthcare. I'm not saying that's the norm, but people (rock) claiming going to college will only mean hill have a lot of debt and a McJob is not necessarily true.
Hell, mine lost more like 50% at its worst (I think it's scaled back to "only" a 40% drop off its peak now), and even I don't believe that jive. It'll bounce back eventually, and this will all just be a bad memory.
And while there's no guarantee that you won't lose money that you put into your 401k, how guaranteed, truly, are those pension plans? It seems to me that the powers that be can change the terms of them practically on a whim.
It's like with all excuses. Why get up from bed - you can slip in the bathroom and hit your head. Why get out of the house - you can be run over by a truck. Why try anything - you may be unsucsessful.
When you think about it, excuses perfectly fit labor union mentality - guarantees for everything regardless of circumstances, no responsibility for ones actions whatsoever, no responsibility for the company's failure and full benefits for company's success. It's perfect - you can always blame somebody else (because THEY set it up), always be malcontent (we all would like to make more - but unionites simply don't care where the money will come from), always find excuses for inaction or failure. You know - the usuall, capitalist bloodsuckers, NAFTA, currency manipulation, aliens (those from Mexico and those from Mars), press conspiracy, bank conspiracy, locust, global warming, cold winter....
I think it was Gagrice who cited almost 50% of Ford UAW voting against the new contract (which btw may not be enough to actually help Ford enough). Those guys are so removed from reality that it is staggering. It wouldn't surprise me if those guys trully believe that there is a pile of gold and platinum sitting in Ford's vaults hidden from public view. And you see that attitude everywhere - same was with airline unions, seems Boeing is going through the same stuff now (that summer strike was probably worst-timed action ever, even topping recent UAW strikes in GM).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Also by the posts on this forum and the lack of any UAW members, I doubt that the UAW will do much but drink beer and yell "They took our jerbs!" if GM and C were to go bankrupt.
Ford just negotiated some stern concessions from the UAW, no one complained.
"They took our jerbs!"
http://blogs.wsj.com/autoshow/2009/04/07/pontiac-g3-the-reprise/
I'm usually fairly astute to what's in the market place, but honestly, I didn't know Pontiac had a G3, or if I did, I've forgotten about it. Apparently I'm not the only one. It looks like a warmed over rebadged KIA or something.
The Aveo itself is a rebadged Daewoo that was rated the worst subcompact by Consumer Reports Meanwhile GM can't pull a profit off of it. UGLY!!!
If you really got involved in the whole concept of defined pension plans as offered by GM and others you would understand that it was and is your very socialistic Government that forced companies to drop those plans and implement 401K plans as an alternative. As was mentioned before. After the Baby Boomers retire that have defined pensions, retiring before 67 will be for those that know how to save for early retirement. Anyone in the private sector expecting the Feds to give you an early retirement are just dreaming. In fact I suspect that by the time Rocky is ready to retire the age for SS will be around 70. The UAW had its chance to do the right things to insure retirement for its workers. They took the easy way out. The Teamsters, Carpenters, IBEW, Operating Engineers and many others built their own Pension plans to avoid just the situation that the UAW workers are facing.
And I will repeat. The GM defined Pension plan is NO safer than a 401K. They are all invested in the same market. At least with individual accounts the person can opt to protect his 401k with conservative choices. You do not get that opportunity with a pension entrusted to others.
I think we all agree that Ford(the Master) has done a good job of learning from it's Students (Mazda/Karmann-Ghia) on how to assemble cars.
The WSJ interviewed one Jobs Bank person that was getting training to go to Nursing school. That does not sound like GM related. Also they could be doing community service. You just have a hard time accepting the facts about UAW workers and their entitlement mentality. No longer matters as the Jobs bank is history. Now UAW workers are treated like the other 10million+ people out of work. Just a bit late as programs like that have pushed GM & C into bankruptcy.
Why is that concept so hard to understand for some people. The government cannot protect every one from every eventuality. People have to take responsibility for themselves. I just hope they don't try to steal our 401k plans as Biden suggested in the campaign. That and the tax benefits that the 401k offers to workers.
Would spreading Cow manure around avocado trees qualify? I did that in my Freshman and sophomore year in High School. All summer and weekends during the year. No bobcat, just a shovel and wheel barrow. That and several other jobs digging ditches & rebuilding transmissions at a wrecking yard, make it hard for me to feel sorry for the over paid unskilled labor in the UAW. Our recent addition that is laid off from the UAW seems smarter than the average UAW worker. He is going to school to better himself. Though it sounds like the UAW may have ruined him with the overly generous pay and benefits.
Yet not once to I blame anyone or take pity on myself, I just worked harder.
Hopefully one day I can have an entry level luxury sports sedan and a boat.
I never take the stand that I deserve anything like the UAW does. Neither did George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, Bill Clinton, or (maybe) Barack Obama.
"They took our Jerbs!"
No kidding, nothing like taking from those who sacrifice and save money every month and giving it those spent every dime and then some. Some how those that don't have anything feel it's the fault of those who do. That's the mentality that both aggravates and worries me.
Let me guess, you don't have a college degree, correct? As someone has already posted, health care and "green" jobs, i.e. ENGINEERS. I've told this before, my son is graduating this summer with a bachelor degree in engineering from Univ of Fla, already has a job lined up with a company in Houston in the energy industry (one of those green jobs), starting pay $60K with a $5K signing bonus. Not bad huh, in these tough economic times? He has friends with general Bus Ad degrees that are unemployed though. I remember well what my advisor told me 30 years ago, "technical degrees like Comp Sci and Engineering hold up well in tough economic times, not so though with general type degrees".
Rocky I feel bad for you that you lost your job as you seem like a really decent guy, but how many times does it have to be posted here, get the right edcuation and move to where the jobs are. I fail to understand how someone with an engineering or health degree could stay unemployed if they were willing to relocate to one of the southern states.
Maybe if GM made the only cars in the world, they would be unsuccessful? But then what would the UAW have to complain about? "They took our jerbs!"
What a novel idea. If you don't like your situation, do what it takes to change it. No it's not easy, but it's not as hard as many seem to think either.
I think I've posted this story a few times, but my FIL worked 31 years in the NW Indiana steel mills. He was laid off for nearly 2 years sometime around '81. When he finally got called back and got caught up on his bills etc, he encouraged my MIL to go to college.
While my wife was in HS my MIL finished her bachelors degree in accounting (it took a while because she also worked P/T and raised 3 kids etc). 10 years after she earned her degree, the mill my FIL worked for went bankrupt around '99. He lost over 50% of his pension and health insurance during retirement. Well my MIL worked her way up in and became a manager within her accounting department. She's earning was earning more than my FIL was (unless he killed himself with o/t) while providing health insurance. Many of my FIL's coworkers weren't as fortunate. Instead of saving for their kids college or sending their spouse. They bought lake cottages, boats, new cars every few years and many ended up broke. They used to make fun of my FIL cause he always drove beaters with 200k miles on them. Now he goes fishing and travels as he wishes because he has money in the bank and a spouse that can easily support them. I'm guessing things could have turned out a lot a different.
Here's one for you conspiracy theorists:
There are some monuments called the Georgia Guidestones. On those guidestones is a passage that the world population should be no more than 500,000,000. Do the math: If the world's population is approximately 6 billion, the globalist elite wish to eliminate more than 92% of the world's population!
Yeah, by with 401k yoo don't get an opportunity to bash anybody but yourself.401k forces you to take responsibility and doesn't guarantee success and we all know how union-minded people love that. Pension gives you elusive "guarantee" and when the company you get an opportunity to bash evil corporations and all other usual suspects for screwing you out when company goes bust. Who wouldn't love that: all given and promised, nothing required but to pay dues. Not even show up, at least not always. Never underestimate peoples' need to be taken care and not required of actually taking responsibility for their life. It's priceless.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Reagan, was oblivious to the damage he caused to our nation. He encouraged the out sourcing of american jobs and for that I hope he is burning with Mises, Pol-Pot, Stalin, etc. :mad:
-Rocky
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-Rocky
Wyoming, as earlier mentioned, has Jackson Hole. Being a skier, that means Wyoming has a lot more to offer than MI!
Good luck with the job hunt, I don't envy you that. While I didn't have to relocate when I changed careers, I did have to take the first step and retrain. Which did cost me some $ (I was lucky enough to get some reimbursed through the local Unemployment Office. A grant, I had to research my newly chosen field and submit a proposal). And, yes, there was a lot of competition for jobs when I got out of class (classmates became competition, but also a network). But, I chose the right skills training at the right time, I didn't expect/demand to be making $50k as soon as certificate was in hand and took any jobs I could get in my new field. It took me about two years to equal my prior salary, but I believe that I have exceeded the potential for earning I would have had had I not been downsized...
But I just don't think you're getting it regarding what a lot of the folks here are saying about jobs and education. I wouldn't want to have to relocate from New England as you desire to stay in MI. Hey, home is where the heart is. But, if all options are exhausted...
Kinda reminds me of an old joke (paraphrase):
A man sees another man punching himself in the gut repeatedly. He asks, "Why are you doing that to yourself? Doesn't it hurt?" The reply, "Of course. But it feels so good when I stop!"
I hope you find your dream job asap. But, maybe it is time to stop...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If Bill Gates, one of the smartest business people in history, is promoting immigration so that companies like GM can competitively pay to have people screw in lug nuts I am all for it. Immigration also creates housing demand, something Detroit could severely use.
"They took our Jerbs!"
-Rocky
Before I received my permanent residency, I had been employed on H-1B for about 5 years and received full pay with full benefits. My annual raises were higher than 90% of my American coworkers over period of that visa. I was simply better than them, my American boss knew that and even though he didn't have to (I was tied with the company because of pending residency), he still rewarded me with fast promotions and better pay. And I have been working for them almost 8 years already - not going anywhere.
So before you start ranting about another lame excuse why getting a college degree is beneath you, check your facts first.
You know what happened after the number of H-1B slots shrank back to 64K/year? Last year that number was exhausted in 1 (ONE!) day (actually, over 120K applications were received in first day so they had to do a lottery)! It accelerated outsourcing of those jobs overseas that had high levels of vacancies. If a company can't get an engineer because not enough Americans have tenacity to go and study math and sciences and it is not allowed to hire anyone from overseas, what are they to do? Open office in Bangalore, Mumbai, Warsaw, Beijng or wherever else is the talent and education.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-Rocky
-Rocky