United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxUQcNa_fL8

    I don't recall if I posted this video with my hero in it???

    -Rocky
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "It's a scary state indeed and the people are A LOT different culturally than what I'm used too."...you are certainly entitled to your view of people around the country, but you are also quite narrow minded in your thinking...open your eyes just a little, you might learn something...

    I was raised just a few miles from the NYC line, so I consider myself quite accustomed to urban life and crowding (approx 18 million people live in the tri-state area where NY, NJ and CT come together)...Kennedy and Laguardia are huge airports...I moved South and fell in love with the somewhat slower pace (it was quite slow in 1971, but by the 90s the pace had quickened substantially)...

    I then moved to Michigan in 1980 and found the people generally nice but brainwashed by that UAW mentality...what amazed me was the dichotomy of the UAW and non-UAW folks...UAW folks were childishly afraid to even look over to a Honda vehicle (altho they had NO trouble literally DESTROYING the vehicles on display at the Detroit Auto Show, the actions of mindless idiots with the 2nd grade mentality that exists in those people)...

    Yet folks who were not UAW were VEHEMENT in wanting the freedom to buy the foreign makes, because I was amazed at the on-UAW folks who consistently called Big 3 products "crap" and other unmentionable words...you see, rocky, even Michiganders knew the UAW cars were junk, and they were ecstatic when an alternative was FINALLY available...you can rail at me all you want, but fellow Detroiters wanted to avoid UAW cars (specifically, avoiding what they called "union crap") because they thought that imports were better...

    In 1990 I moved back to Atlanta (10 years of 40 below zero in January were enough for any human to tolerate) I moved to the country, in a town of 3500 people...redneck???...sure, but I enjoyed living in a small town...I could hear the birds but could not hear the trucks on the interstate...

    I made it a point to (try my best) not to come across as an arrogant New Yorker (I hope I succeeded) and I get along with folks just fine...from what you post, you cannot get along with anybody unless they are UAW from Grand Rapids and that is sad...because you are the only one here who does not see the handwriting on YOUR wall...if you expect to make a living, you will probably (weasel word) have to leave Michigan or starve...the opportunities there will get fewer and fewer, altho the people applying for the jobs will also get fewer and fewer...floorsweepers, when they find out their job is REALLY worth $5/hour (altho minimum wage laws will guarantee them more), will walk away...they actually think that pushing a broom is worth $35/hour on the open market, and reality awaits for them soon...it isn't...

    But you seem to have problems with anybody different from you...maybe the problem IS you...maybe a good look in the mirror is in order, because you can't seem to tolerate anyone that isn't a Michigan UAW worker...and, considering that there will be fewer of those, you may not have anyone to talk to except Beth, and even she understands capitalism better then you...must be the cleavage... ;)
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    And one quick addition...when I used to go woodchuck hunting in upstate NY, we went to various farms and hunted with farmer's permission...they were not that different from Southern farmers, both kinda redneck from my point of view, but nice people nonetheless...

    Oh, and have you ever taken a look at a lineup of UAW workers???...and you don't think they could populate the front row in a Willie nelson concert???...(old joke...what has 100 legs and 2 teeth???...the front row in a Willie nelson concert)...so this toothless hick image ytou have of the South fairly describes the average UAW worker, at least what I saw in the 80s, so don't think you have anything up on the good ol boys down here...except the UAW folks had an easier accent for me to understand...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well a 2nd grade education from a Michigan public school would be an equivalent of a college education from Goergia Tech. :P :P :P You can keep paying people $5 dollars an hour and the welfare and trailer parks will continue to be filled to the gill in Georgia!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Whatever Marsha7!!! :blush: The thing of it is the UAW workers didn't listen to Redneck Willie, and were more inclined to listen to KISS. :P

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    and you don't think they could populate the front row in a Willie nelson concert???

    Easy there, I could never afford front row tickets to a Willie Nelson Concert. Got a nose bleed I was so far back in the crowd. I did luck out and get in the 3rd row for Jimmy Buffett. I'm not a Parrothead, but did enjoy the energy of the crowd. If UAW guys go to a KISS concert that says a lot about their mentality and moral character. :sick:
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I was reading an automotive article today with new GM CEO Fritz Henderson. The reporter asked him about buying imports vs. buying domestics. Guess what his response was, man?

    He said that he never said that Americans should only buy domestics, to support GM and Ford and Chrysler. He said that if they want to, if those are the rigs they pick on their own accord, well then great.

    But he values the competition and welcomes it when people buy Mitsubishi's, Honda's, Hyundai's, Kia's, Subaru's, Nissans, Toyota's and on and on and on. Fancy that?

    I think I like Fritz more than any CEO I've ever heard speak from GM before. He really only wants those people to buy GM products who are convinced in their heart that they're buying a better product, or at least a competitive product. And to be fair, GM products have been improving of late. Haven't they, guys?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    It's tough to comprehend the pain others feel when you are surrounded by corn fields. FYI- I have been through central Illinois

    I never said things were great, no doubt the economy is severely hurting. There is quite a bit of mfg. and processing type plants around here. Peoria has Catarpillar and they've definitely had layoffs, Normal has the Mitsu plant. Kraft has a large facility in Champaign, ADM has a large facility in Decatur just to name a few. Lots of small manufacturers through out central Illinois.

    And yes, lots of cornfields and jobs to support them with the likes of Pioneer seeds etc. I thought Kansas was flat, but I don't think you can get any flatter than central Illinois either.

    I also recall you living in Wichita, Kansas and I assume you knew a lot of people there???

    Just about everyone I knew there has moved out of state for better opportunities and the I knew a few people who worked for Cessna, but I haven't talked to them since we moved. I know Cessna has laid of a bunch.

    Chicago seems to be holding up well. Mine and my wife's family live in NW Indiana (where we're originally from), l have several friends and family that work at the steel mills and they are all still working. No layoffs yet, but hours have been cut big time with o/t all but gone.

    We have cities that are virtually dead around here like Danville, which lost a GM plant many years ago and has never recovered except for the developing meth industry and taking the section 8 housing Chicago exported to them.

    I'm just countering by stating I know many people that are doing very well, some incredibly well, and some are struggling.

    FYI- I have been through central Illinois, several times and will have to stop one of these days to have a beer with you.
    I'm sorry you have to drive through this boring state, but give me a heads up when your coming through and I'll have a cold one waiting. If your lucky, I might even have a keg in the kegerator. Or does that make me a redneck? LOL
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We have cities that are virtually dead around here like Danville

    That is the town my mom was born in, back in 1922. Does not sound like a place I would want to visit.

    Your point about our still having a lot of manufacturing is true. Much of it specialty things. San Diego has two of the top musical instrument manufacturers. Taylor guitars and Deering Banjos. Both keep a lot of families supported in modest style. These are not high paying UAW type jobs. No Unions or strikes needed to keep people on the job. Highly skilled craftsmen doing what they love.

    My nephew moved out here from Ohio when he lost his 3rd job in Ohio in less than a year. I did not think he would find work. He had 3 job offers in less than a week. He took the best offer. Finding a trade or skill that is needed and getting training is what a wise person does. Whining and complaining about currency manipulation that has been around since the beginning of time is just wasted verbal energy. Wanting the government to protect your job when the government is the one that has invited the competition to build in the USA is ridiculous.

    Those that sat around in the Jobs bank watching CNN and eating jelly donuts instead of getting training in a better field deserve what ever happens. The handwriting on the wall has been clear to everyone. The US domestic auto industry has gone down hill since 1970. They have lost market share every year for nearly 40 years. The UAW has lost a million jobs for their workers. That should have been enough for the smart ones to get some training for the inevitable day that is upon them.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Hey Rocky, if UAW members are so smart, why are they so protective of their manufacturing jobs? You think such smart people would be able to find work or go back to school. :lemon:
    Also why is it that all UAW workers on TV where Canadian Tuxedos to meetings. Denim on Denim?

    On a side note, my cousin goes to Georgia Tech. He could design GM vehicles on the back of his hand. :P
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Currency manipulation, currency manipulation, currency manipulation.
    That is all we here from you. How does that affect your job, the UAW, the quality of GM cars. What about all the stories of UAW workers sabotaging cars:
    From the Harvard Business Review:
    "In the early 1970s, faced with growing worker dissatisfaction resulting in higher rates of absenteeism, grievances, and in some extreme cases wildcat strikes and sabotage on the assembly line, General Motors in cooperation with the UAW instituted a “Quality of Work Life” (QWL) program."

    Those things get you fired everywhere else. No wonder why GM was making such bad cars.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If your lucky, I might even have a keg in the kegerator. Or does that make me a redneck?

    I thought all beer drinkers were rednecks :blush: I prefer sipping a glass of Grand Marnier or Courvoisier after my evening lobster or filet. ;)

    You will hear Rocky coming on the latest in UAW transportation.

    image
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    That is some of the UAW's finest work. UAW's credo: "They took our jobs!" "They took our jobs!" "They took our jobs!" :P

    Rocky, is mullet part of the UAW uniform? And shouldn't you be looking for a job instead of goofing around on the net. Don't you have kids to feed, ex-wife?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just like the Roman Emperors, our politicians use currency manipulation for their own benefit. The cost to us of having money now is the interest we pay later. By printing more and increasing supply, governments can make money cheaper. They do this around election time to make mortgages or credit card debt cost less and encourage investment and job creation. It makes us feel better off in the short run but the cost of cheap money is that the money we have already saved is worth less too. They are so bad at this that investors have lost confidence and politicians have been forced to hand power over to independent central banks like the Federal Reserve which were once rare but are now the norm. However the manipulation does not stop there.

    Every major western government is borrowing hand over fist and the central bankers they appoint are printing money to prevent their profligacy from sending the cost of borrowing sky high. The US Congress, although by no means the only offender, is the worst. The only reason that this has not caused massive inflation is because China has so far been willing to take worthless paper in return for real goods. Like all rulers they're not acting out of the goodness of their hearts. A bout of inflation in China's number one customer would threaten Chinese prosperity and stability, and that would be bad for the communists.


    The Stimulus IS currency manipulation. Printing money with NOTHING to back it up.

    Bailing out the Domestic auto industry is also currency manipulation. I think our friends in the UAW would like selective currency manipulation that favors their jobs and screws everyone else.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, then Fritz wants a guy like me! I truly believe my Buicks and Cadillacs are awesome products that have done extremely well by me.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Marsha7 - LaGuardia (LGA) a huge airport?? - Not really, it's one of the smallest major airports, geographically or square acres-speaking, still in service today. Yes, it's busy, but it's certainly not huge. On the other hand, Kennedy (JFK) is large, but still only reasonably-sized in comparison to others (ATL, LAX, MCO, ORD) around the country, especially DFW.

    Rocky - there is industry in central Illinois - you just have to know where to look through all of the cornfields and soybean fields! ADM and Caterpillar in Decatur are some pretty good-sized plants, as is the Mitsubishi plant in Normal and the Kraft and Solo Cup plants in Champaign and Urbana. Of course, there's the home of Caterpillar in the Peoria area, but some may not perceive that as truly central. I would agree, no extensive heavy industry, especially like that north in the Chicago area, or in the Dayton area, or in many cities throughout MI and OH.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >. Or does that make me a redneck? LOL

    Only if the refrigerator is on the front porch. :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am not sure why the People of Michigan would want all that dirty industry. CA has chased most of it out. They could go back to raising food if the land is not too polluted with industrial waste. Rocky says it is a beautiful state. My trip up through the center to Canada did not impress me that much. But then I don't like the looks of the new Buick or Cadillacs. All in the eye of the beholder.

    With the cheap houses in Detroit the UAW retirees should have a low cost housing option that the rest of the USA does not enjoy.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Do you think Canada would trade Michigan for British Columbia straight up?
    While it is all in the eye of the beholder, Detroit is considered one of the least attractive Cities to live in by many beholders.
    Houses in Michigan are going for a grand.
  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    Do you think Canada would trade Michigan for British Columbia straight up?
    While it is all in the eye of the beholder, Detroit is considered one of the least attractive Cities to live in by many beholders.
    Houses in Michigan are going for a grand.


    No, we will NOT trade British Columbia for Michigan regardless of what you throw in! We may have been born at night, it just wasn't last night. Nice try though. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Victoria and Vancouver Island is worth more in my opinion than the whole state of Michigan. Doesn't hurt to try. Your Prime minister might go for it to get all the failed auto industry in Ontario. :shades:
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Yeah, Vancouver is one of my favorite North American Cities. No UAW in Vancouver either and they have the next Winter Olympics. You sure you don't want to trade? :shades:
  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    No Thank You. Some of us in Ontario may not exactly get along with our West Coast bothers and sisters, but we wouldn't trade them for anything. We will give you Quebec for Hawaii and Alaska. They are a beautiful and non-demanding people. They would be a great addition to the U.S. :shades:
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    As some of you are probably aware AT&T and some of it's unions are now negotiating a new contract. Sticking point seems to be health care costs, both for workers and retirees. Sounds like UAW & Detroit all over again.

    Sharp said AT&T's core landline employees do not pay health care premiums and pay 8 percent of their health care costs in contrast with AT&T wireless business employees who pay as much as 20 percent of health care costs.

    "These employees have the richest benefits," Sharp said. "That's primarily what this bargaining is about."


    Sharp said the comparatively low health care costs borne by AT&T landline workers is similar to what auto workers pay "and it's clear what those sorts of unsustainable costs have done to America's auto industry."

    Johnson dismissed that argument and instead pointed to the company's overall financial well-being.

    "AT&T is not the auto industry," she said. "It's very successful, very profitable."


    AT&T Contract Talks
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    You Canadians drive a hard bargain. Maybe Mexico will take Michigan and the UAW for Baja.
    http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/165203 :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,504
    Real estate values in Vancouver probably make the city proper worth more than the entire state of Michigan :shades:
  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    We Canadians are now handling all negotiations for Mexico. Our offer stands... you can have Quebec and we'll let you keep the lower part of Michigan. We'll take the upper peninsula. Deal?????
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We didn't come here in a turnip truck. The upper Peninsula is all that Michigan has going for it. As far as Quebec. Maybe you can trade with Sarkozy he understands them better. :confuse:

    We can give you a couple bucks of the stimulus to support the future welfare recipients the UAW will be trying to find Section 8 housing for. Maybe a few tons of rice to feed them. I got to tell you it will be hard finding jobs they are capable of doing. We would send them to New Orleans but they have reached their quota of warehoused votes.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    That sounds like a deal if you take Wagoner, W. Bush, and Chrysler. :)
  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    No deal. Canada just signed a deal that has Quebec being given away on Wheel of Fortune. I would suggest that you put Michigan, Wagoner, Chrysler, GM and Bush on the same show. Could be the first time in the show's history that no one will want to solve a puzzle!
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Maybe Chrysler, Wagoner, and the UAW can do some good building schools in Afghanistan?
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I always thought that LaGuardia was a huge airport...I stand corrected if I am wrong...(coming from NY, I just assumed it was large...it is the arrogance of being a New Yorker...you know, like some people here think UAW have been the best made for the last 40 years, even tho the evidence of the years of junk is OVERWHELMING...)

    boston: "Detroit is considered one of the least attractive Cities to live in by many beholders."...I do not know what Detroit was before the 1967 riots, but when I arrived 13 years later, much of it was an absolute crime-ridden slum...not all, mind you, but enough that both black and white left the city in droves due to the rising crime...they are the one city known for Devil's Night, the night before Halloween, when the city is virtually set on fire, sometimes numbering in the high hundreds of fires...

    The paper would print that each year the fires were going down due to citizen vigilance, but it was all a lie...I knew many Detroit Firefighters, and they would quote numbers in the 700-900 range, depending on the year, while the paper would print numbers like 225, 175, 145 and so on...sheer publicity stunt, what the paper printed...

    Detroit was a pit back then, and it can only be worse with the recent mayor making Coleman Young look good, and Young was entirely corrupt and racist...

    I will give credit to Young for one thing...he was the only inner city mayor, a Democrat, that was absolutely pro-gun...he acknowledged the crime rates, and fully believed that citizens needed guns to protect themselves, since the police rarely arrived in time to prevent ANYTHING...it is a rare Democrat who has ANY respect for the 2nd Amendment, esp in a northern city...
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    We will give you Quebec for Hawaii and Alaska. They are a beautiful and non-demanding people. They would be a great addition to the U.S.

    How about we will take Montreal and Toronto, you keep the rest of Quebec, and you can have Alaska minus the oil and we keep Hawaii? Plus you can see Russia from Alaska. :shades: :shades:
  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    No deal.. I'll tell you what... why don't we let the UAW, CAW, US government and Canadian government start negotiations on this. They should have it all worked out just before the world ends. :sick:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    OK, why doesn't Wagoner negotiate for Canada(you) and Gettlefinger will negotiate for the US? :shades:
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Looks like Gettafinger is going to be leaving soon as it is.
    "On March 19, 2009, Gettelfinger announced he intended to retire at the end of his term and would not run for reelection in 2010."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Gettelfinger
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Here's a tale of woe regarding our education system, as it pertains to geography.

    Turns out my daughter was in middle school before she figured out that Alaska was in fact attached to the rest of North America and not an "island" in a separate box, as is shown in most atlas'.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    If they are still working, then they will get a contract done. History at Verizon tells me so.

    Also, AT&T made 12.9 BILLION last year, so they can afford it.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Sorry, cooter, any fool knows that $12.9 billion does not buy as much as it used to...ask any Gates or Buffet, and they will back me up... ;)
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    "AT&T is not the auto industry," she said. "It's very successful, very profitable."

    However, if Google has its way and makes the air waves free, AT&T will be in a world of hurt. Besides, the IPHONE was a major mistake these past years and other mistakes such as getting out of the cell phone business, then later returning/buying Southwestern Bell. Oh yeah great CEOing there.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/4979-google-ceo-almost-confirms-nationwide-free-- wifi-plan-goog
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    $16B only lasted GM 3 months. Toyota made about $10B in 2007 and lost money last quarter. AT&T needs to hold the line. Let them go on strike. The only strike I was a part of was against Pacific Telephone in 1968. After 2 weeks we accepted their offer as we were not having any real impact on service. Modern telco equipment is pretty redundant and not likely to need service. And if they are on strike people just have to wait for a new phone. It is super competitive. Our cable company is kicking some butt offering the total package. I got fed up with AT&Ts multiple plans and switched over to Cox cable for everything. No hassles and it works very well. AT&T does not have a monopoly on service. Just as the UAW and Verizon are not monopolies. GM was a monopoly in the 1950s and got shot down by the Feds. Now they are nearly nothing. Yet the UAW as recent as last year treated them like a cash cow and went on strike.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    However, if Google has its way and makes the air waves free, AT&T will be in a world of hurt. Besides, the IPHONE was a major mistake these past years and other mistakes such as getting out of the cell phone business, then later returning/buying Southwestern Bell. Oh yeah great CEOing there.

    Jesus, did you look at the date on that article, it's freakin over 4 years old and as close as Google has gotten to that is offering Skype on the Iphone which only works on WIFI and you still have to pay for WIFI coverage from the major carriers which has spotty coverage at best. I think AT&T is safe for a while.

    Plus google isn't going to own the infrastructure to provide the WiFi network but will only provide the service for free based on advertising revenue. Thus, they will be paying someone for the wireless infrastructure.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Please explain why iPhone was a mistake...no, I don't own one, and it is not UAW oriented, but I am sure some UAW floorsweepers, overpaid as they are (did I say that again?), probably own iPhones...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    dbostondriver: If UAW workers were to go back to college pal, there are no jobs waiting for them to obtain unless you call Burger King, McDonalds, Wendy's, a good job. I guess after they get done mastering fries then in a year or two they can move up to assistant manager and that's when the big bucks start rolling in. :P

    dieselone: The kegerator makes you a cool redneck :blush: :P ....I don't think you can have a better beer pal!!! ;)

    gagrice: The Jobs Banks Program was a promise by the D3 to retrain the UAW workers that was never kept for the new machinery. The problem was they kept on shipping plants south of the border and oversea's and it's kinda hard to train for jobs that don't exist. I know that answer won't satisfy your hate but it's the truth.
    Also just remember we went through a few major recessions under your hero Reagan. :(

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Talk about something current and not something that may or may not of happened 40+ years. What does the Harvard Business Review know about what happened??? Some pissed off supervisors got pimped slapped for being a jerk cried to some college kid and he wrote a paper??? I guess you believe everything you read from second hand sources and we all know the media wouldn't twist a story to make a mediocre story interesting!!! :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Kiss is well before my time but I'd have a lot better time going to a KISS concert than Jimmy Buffett or Willie. Hey I can listen to Willie, and respect his achievements but I couldn't imagine seeing him in concert. It would be like me going to see a Hannah Montana, concert!!! BOOOOOOORING!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    iluv,

    Fritz Henderson, is trying to play up GM products despite all the disadvantages they have. It is amazing just how good GM cars are but some people are so blind they can't see it. :sick: If Honyota, had to go through what the Big 3 has they would of went belly up years ago. The only reason why companies like Mitsubishi, is still around is because there government bailed them out. Honyota, was living off the Japanese government nipple in the 1970's and a good portion of the 80's. Some have said they are back at it. I don't know if that is true or not???

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I prefer sipping a glass of Grand Marnier or Courvoisier after my evening lobster or filet.

    You meant your wife, right??? :P

    You will hear Rocky coming on the latest in UAW transportation

    That is hilarious....That will be what ex UAW workerers will only be able to afford after your "Brave New World" is complete. :sick:

    -Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    dieselone: The kegerator makes you a cool redneck :blush: :P ....I don't think you can have a better beer pal!!!

    I love the kegerator except that I drink to much when I have a keg on tap. When my wife asks how many beers have I had I always answer "just one";) Plus no one is ever around to help me lift and position 130lbs or so of beer, but I never have a problem finding people to help empty it. LOL
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