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Say what??? Every dealership I've worked at has service customers. It's the cash cow of the dealership. If you break even on car sales you are doing good. All the money made is in service and parts.
Oil changes, tires, and brakes, that is all done at specialty stores. I have been a fan of edmunds since before they were on the internet. Back before they had true value, my father would just add $300-$500 over invoice. With TMV, do you even have to haggle anymore.
You can get specials for oil changes, brakes, tires, at the dealership that are competitive with the specialty stores. You also don't have to worry about having some backyard mechanic screw up your ride. You are indeed correct by using edmunds.com as a reliable source and it sounds like your dad was a smart guy!!!
You know, to book travel you used to have to use a travel agent. With the internet, who uses travel agents anymore? I guess the GM and C bailouts do give you some extra leverage.
Who in the world would use a travel agent outside of some corporate suit??? Seriously you can get on priceline, expedia, etc. to get the lowest rate. Hell the airlines themselves have links to book rooms, cars, etc, now days.
-Rocky
Detroit Metropolitan Airport is one of the nation's most recently expanded and modernized airports with six major runways, and large aircraft maintenance facilities capable of servicing and repairing a Boeing 747. Michigan's schools and colleges rank among the nation's best. The state has maintained its early commitment to public education.
The Bureau of Economic Analysis estimated Michigan's 2004 gross state product at $372 billion.[43] Per capita personal income in 2003 was $31,178 and ranked twentieth in the nation. In January 2009, Michigan's unemployment rate rose to 11.6%,[44] the highest in the nation during the recession.
[edit] Taxation
Michigan's top tax bracket on personal income is 4.35%. Some cities impose additional income taxes. Michigan's state sales tax is six percent. Property taxes are assessed on the local, not state, level. In 2007, Michigan repealed its Single Business Tax (SBT) and replaced it with a Michigan Business Tax (MBT) in order to stimulate job growth by reducing taxes for seventy percent of the businesses in the state.
-Rocky
-Rocky
http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/22/counties-rich-income-forbeslife-cx_mw_0122reale- state.html
Oakland county is not listed as the wealthiest county in America.
"Fairfax County, Va., Loudoun County, Va., and Howard County, Md., top the list of America's richest counties, which we based on median household income data from the 2006 census. In Fairfax, that number reaches $100,318 a year; Loudoun households pull down a livable $99,371 a year; Howard residents follow at $92,260."
A wiki search show Oakland county at #26 in 2005 - with a per capita income of $52,274.
In terms of "wealth" per county in the U.S., Michigan is not leading the pack
Could you imagine how much better pay and benefits you could make if your job wasn't threatened by 3rd world wages. Just think about that for a minute and how much more profitable your company could be.
-Rocky
I was basing my info off of 62vettefp. I believe he posted a article that stated such a while back??? If I recall it was based on cost of living vs. income which ranked it so high. I stayed in Oakland County for a week and boy there is a lot of affluent folks and seeing Lamborghini's were quite common. :shades:
"Fairfax County, Va., Loudoun County, Va., and Howard County, Md., top the list of America's richest counties, which we based on median household income data from the 2006 census. In Fairfax, that number reaches $100,318 a year; Loudoun households pull down a livable $99,371 a year; Howard residents follow at $92,260."
A wiki search show Oakland county at #26 in 2005 - with a per capita income of $52,274.
In terms of "wealth" per county in the U.S., Michigan is not leading the pack
I guess Lou Dobbs, is making his impact felt in Fairfax.
This has always been the wealthiest part of Grand Rapids, MI.
East Grand Rapids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Grand_Rapids,_Michigan
-Rocky
Whoops, better stay away from Wal-Mart!
Regards,
OW
I don't call that a smart buyer. They are clueless. Were they also toothless? Remember most of the people in Michigan migrated from the farms in the South. They were not smart enough to make a living farming so they went where you could get rich with NO education and a strong back. Strong backs and weak minds, are what the leaders of the UAW used to push their Socialist agenda. Guess what, they were used by those elitist to gain control. It is good that you are so proud of your state. Still does not change the facts. The UAW mentality has destroyed the Michigan economy.
Come-on gagrice there can't be that many dumb hillbilly's out there. I would be embarrased.
I have a little story for you. My big boss for much of the last 25 years I worked had a sign behind him in his office. It read "When you cannot do anything else you can always be a consultant". He was a consultant to our BOD and was offered the job as General Manager and ran with it. What he knew about the telephone business you could put in a thimble. Those people that thought they could get a Traverse for $18k needed a consultant. They were too stupid to realize it. If that is your typical Michigan car buyer, you have highly over rated the populace.
I think that GM was very good about service compared to Toyota. On my GMC I got coupons for free oil changes on a regular basis. I did not spend a penny servicing the 2005 GMC the year and a half I owned it. I have only had one service on the Sequoia. It was basically the 5k oil change that cost me $60. They used 30W dino oil and wanted $70 more for synthetic. The new owners of the dealership sent me a $19.95 coupon. In the fine print they want more if it is a V8. I will not be taking it back to the dealer unless I need warranty work.
Who in the world would use a travel agent outside of some corporate suit?
Some of my best friends are travel agents. I took trips with them all over Mexico. The airlines have pretty much destroyed that business with cuts in commissions. You can find the best fares on those Internet services. I go directly to the airline. I was in a class in Florida with a guy that got bumped on his return to Chicago with an Expedia ticket. I only use those sources to find which airlines service a given place. I don't trust them.
All the money made is in service and parts.
Maybe that is why Obama offered to do service for car owners GM leaves in the lurch when they go belly up. BO's Government Motors auto repair.
I assume this is connected to UAW workers and how some, few, of them are paid too much by GM with the promises of full healthcare for life after work and during retirement along with good retirement pay exclusive of social security into which they probably paid at near max amounts and receive a high pay. I don't parallel that to the state workers who pay into their own retirement accounts and 401k's. The workers for the state aren't being paid out of a fund for healthcare as are the UAW workers (so far). It appears politically BO isn't going to touch the unions any more than he has to do because he owes them to keep support for his next election in 10 and '12. Anything done will be to move costs to the public, us the taxpayers, to make up for what is taken under the guise of a 'guvment controlled bankruptcy rather than pure backruptcy which negates the contracts, period.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In contrast people buying us brands have long ventured away from the required visits to the dealer service shop. The difference in the quality of care has caused some eventual problems for which GM, e.g., is blamed but which could have been found and fixed earlier if the dealer store had been doing the regular services on the car. The foreign brands have been successful in making the ownership process more under their control to keep the experiences better. The US brands have lost reputation over this, along with corners cut due to high UAW costs because of the older workers, not the younger, who wouldn't give up anything.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
We used to have an ad maybe 3 years ago for a broker who would bring cars to your door for you to peruse and test drive. I kept wondering how he arranged that with the various dealers. I can picture a person saying they want to check the latest Mercedes, BMW, and Impala. Even if the broker has qualified the alleged buyer, would the dealerships loan the cars in that way?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Nobody will. They'll be sold in blister packs hanging on a J-hook near the checkout at Wal~Mart!
Would that include our highest elected leader talking down the US as "divisive" along with several other adjectives yesterday while in Europe telling them how bad the US is? I only see his talk as meaning more lost jobs for the US as we do mea culpas to make up for our past do good ideas; shift the wealth to other countries, e.g. Not wanting to go skiing, but how can that help keep jobs in the US with that approach to jobs.
US jobs is why I bought a Purolator cabin filter replacement because it's the only one made on the N. American continent. Fram has some made in Canada parts but not air filters. Fram makes a big deal about their design development centers being in the US; but their production is mostly China.
I feel the same way about buying a US brand car, but I have concerns about the UAW's role, past, present, and future.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For reading:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Then I used AC filters. Now I also use Purolator. I just checked Purolator oil filters in my stock rack and they're made in USA (On bottom of box).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is hawg wash. Most of our people came from the East.
They were not smart enough to make a living farming so they went where you could get rich with NO education and a strong back. Strong backs and weak minds, are what the leaders of the UAW used to push their Socialist agenda.
You are so full of it gagrice. There is nothing wrong with pulling a Socialist agenda as I'd like to see that happen. Barry, is a pseudo-capitalist elite just like many in your party. You should be happy as he's going to open up our market to even more nations. :sick:
Guess what, they were used by those elitist to gain control. It is good that you are so proud of your state. Still does not change the facts. The UAW mentality has destroyed the Michigan economy.
No it's you one-world governmental types that have destroyed Michigan. In the not so distant future the Chinese will have the same standard of living as us and these multi-national corporations will be able to market there goods around the globe for the same price. We are doomed. :sick:
I have a little story for you. My big boss for much of the last 25 years I worked had a sign behind him in his office. It read "When you cannot do anything else you can always be a consultant". He was a consultant to our BOD and was offered the job as General Manager and ran with it. What he knew about the telephone business you could put in a thimble. Those people that thought they could get a Traverse for $18k needed a consultant. They were too stupid to realize it. If that is your typical Michigan car buyer, you have highly over rated the populace.
No they aren't your typical Michigan buyer. They are likely from the south and with all the years of imbreeding that took place down there well the brain suffers and you have a non-union mentality that my company is going to take care of me.
-Rocky
Yeah the domestics are generally cheaper. Now a saturn dealership is pretty expensive. Before we closed they were wanting $41 for a oil change but people paid it anyways. :surprise: Some dealerships are doing $10 oil changes. Last week I spoke to a big wig from GM service (before I lost my job) and made the suggestion that we copy BMW and offer "FREE MAINTAINENCE" on all GM cars!!!
Some of my best friends are travel agents. I took trips with them all over Mexico. The airlines have pretty much destroyed that business with cuts in commissions. You can find the best fares on those Internet services. I go directly to the airline. I was in a class in Florida with a guy that got bumped on his return to Chicago with an Expedia ticket. I only use those sources to find which airlines service a given place. I don't trust them.
I don't either gagrice. I did it one time and got burned. They changed where I was going to take off from Amarillo to Oklahoma City with only like a weeks notice. :mad:
Maybe that is why Obama offered to do service for car owners GM leaves in the lurch when they go belly up. BO's Government Motors auto repair.
You could be on to something!!! :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I retired from law enforcement after 28 years and received 78% of my last 3 yr average, full medical and drug coverage, $6 co-pay on prescriptions.
No Social Security (exempt), 2.5% COLA.
That was then. Current retirees are on defined contribution plan, similar to 401k. Less medical with higher co-pays.
I don't look the gift horse in the mouth. I know that I could lose this, but for now :-)
xlaw
I hope you get it now Rocky. If not, I can only feel sorry for you.
-Rocky
-Rocky
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown heralded the emergence of a "new world order" Thursday... ...it isn't just a conspiracy theory, and it is as sinister as is humanly possible. Barry is just a pawn in the game.
Kissinger and von Mises are smiling right now... Globalization is not socialism, although some like to complain about socialism as being the direction of today, which it certainly is not. Cries of socialism are used to distract the sheeple from their own downfall.
Michigan may be the exception.So tell me how does a dealer for the D3 make any money selling D3 cars in Michigan at employee pricing since everybody and their relatives can buy at employee pricing?
If that's typical for these otherwise lower end mass market cars, no wonder why they are in trouble. And yet again, it's not the fault of the guy slapping the things together.
But Rocky, I thought he was god's gift before the election? :P
In the not so distant future the Chinese will have the same standard of living as us and these multi-national corporations will be able to market there goods around the globe for the same price. We are doomed.
The thing about the UAW is that they HATE competition. They protect the incompetent and lazy among them. And they don't want any other car makers or countries to be better than us at something. When the US was king and we out competed and were better than everybody else that was just fine. But now that others are catching up, capitalism sucks and how dare those companies be scheming to destroy a US industry! The UAW would like the shoddy GM/C/F products to be ok and patriots just keep buying. Put up a big fence against imports so that we can buy our own crappy cars while the rest of the world gets better stuff. There's another example of that - Castro in Cuba. They still drive US cars from the '60's down there. That's a great model for this country.
It is the heritage of the guy putting the car together. His UAW forefathers saw fit to load the current workers down with the extreme debt of coddling themselves in retirement. Do you think that the retired guy with a gold plated health plan and fat retirement gives a rats behind that some poor [non-permissible content removed] is working for $15 per hour so the other $15 per hour can maintain his lifestyle. If you don't see that as being the UAW's poor planning I sure wish you could tell me what it was.
Though I always thought the whole Saturn concept was lame. Negotiating a good price on a car is the most fun in buying.
It's time that top 5%, whether in wealth or corporate hierarchy, finally start being held accountable for what they have wrought.
I would categorically state that if America doesn't develop a strong political organized labor class (as in unions) we might as well turn our country, the USA, over to the oligarchs that currently run Wall Street, Goldman Sachs, the Federal Reserve, and the US Treasury and our government to their benefit. There is no offsetting power.
Only through a much needed balance of power that protects average Americans from the unfettered greed of the oligarchs will the USA ever become a strong country again.
When one examines the massive increases in percent of income and percent of GDP that the financial sector has taken from our economy since the 80s, for producing intangible products that offer little to nothing in value, the relationship needs examined in debt. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice
Didn't the financial analyst that went in front of congress quote $300 Billion.
Bankruptcy is a much cheaper option."
Not so fast. Check this out:
http://market-ticker.org/archives/921-GM-Bankrupt,-UNLESS.....html
A small snipet:
"April 1 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp.’s 60-day deadline to restructure is unlikely to be extended because the U.S. won’t repay $1 billion in convertible notes maturing June 1, according to a person with knowledge of the discussions.
This is basically the government telling GM that either they get the bondholders to agree to whatever is necessary, or they're dead.
They're dead, and here's why...........So in this case the winning play, if you're a big bondholder, is to tell GM to suck eggs; you'll get paid 100 cents on your CDS even though AIG has no money, because the taxpayer will make you whole on those CDS, even if the bonds have a recovery in bankruptcy.
In other words you could conceivably get more than 100 cents if you hold those bonds - so long as you also hold a CDS as a hedge.
It must be nice to be able to screw the taxpayer for more than a 100% payout, right?"
Imagine that. GM bondholders won't accept 30%. Hell if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't accept a 90% payout from GM.
My guess is it was discovered that those GM bonds were in the pension portfolio of Congress via AIG. If that was the case none of the yokels in Congress would want them discounted. May be the reason Congress turned down GM & C last year, when GW bailed them out temporarily. A convoluted mess at best.
For that I kind of feel sorry for the workers both UAW and non union. They are just pawns in the governments game of chess.
Here, at Verizon.
Oh wait, we pay NOTHING for a family plan (neither do retirees), and $50 sounds right for the ER.
Did I mention a company matched 401k as well?
There is going to need to be a change far deeper than what can be accomplished by an election (where both candidates must meet the approval of the megalomanical oligarchs) for this pendulum to swing back. All I can hope for is that European demographic mistakes result in a revolution of sorts that spreads across the Atlantic.
The Federal Reserve was established to allow a privileged and irresponsible few access to the national treasury and national direction. That power has now been fully realized, and few can see it.
It's going to take a lot more than a UAW or any other union to right to ship.
Better look at the fine print on your retirement contract. We had fully paid medical & Dental the entire time I worked under a Teamster Contract. It started as 100% paid everything including all dental. The Teamsters had a dental clinic and hospital in the 1970s and early 80s. It was slowly eroded. When I retired that fully paid plan only covered 70% with my out of pocket per year $4000 max. And 50% dental with a $2000 per year cap on dental with NO braces etc for the kids.
My wife and I just went to have a teeth cleaned with no insurance now. It was $302 for both of us. The last crown I got before my insurance was gone cost me $550.
You will be real lucky if Verizon pays your medical after you retire.
I probably will. But as of now, nobody who retired before 12/31/91 pays anything for life. The rest of the retirees are bargained for contract by contract. My point is that, as of today, nobody pays.
That is what's so sad about this. For weeks now, the UAW has taken a bad rap for not negotiating away enough (they were to get a 50% equity swap while the bondholders were offered 30%). We all thought that was unfair to the bondholders. This makes it sound as if GM goes belly up, then the major bondholders get not only 100% of their "investment" from you and me, but whatever the bankruptcy judge awards them as well. The rest of them, the stockholders, and the UAW get the shaft.
If this is the case, is bankruptcy still the cheapest way for the Government to get out of this mess???