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As far as the GM welfare case, they just announced two days ago that they plan on paying back the government loan early. It doesn't sound to me like they're hurting too badly.
"Hey, all you losers! We're abolishing your healthcare and paying you only minimum wage!"
"Oh yeah? Well we're going on strike!"
"Ok! You do that! (heh-heh!)"
I'd call that a very naive statement. They are still hemorrhaging money. If I borrow $500K because I am broke, I spend $300K the first year trying to stay alive, and I say I will repay $50K this year, does that mean I'm doing well? No, it just means I'll run out of money sooner and either fail or go ask for more money. It's only a PR move. GM is still a disaster and not even close to making any money.
This WAS the Pennsylvania I used to know before the flood of imports, outsourcing of jobs, NAFTA, etc.
Almost all the cities mentioned in the video are now virtually uninhabitable crime-infested ghettos due to the massive exodus of jobs. Camden, NJ is now one of the nation's poorest cities. Trenton, NJ has a railroad bridge over the Delaware with a huge red neon sign that states "TRENTON MAKES THE WORLD TAKES." Well, Trenton doesn't make much of anything these days since the world took all of its jobs. Chester, PA - now Pennsylvania's poorest city, once had a sign that read "WHAT CHESTER MAKES MAKES CHESTER." Well, nothing is made in Chester nowadays, so what does that make Chester? The Hess Brothers Department Store in Allentown, PA is long gone. The last time I was in downtown Reading I was more scared of being there than Philly's worst slum. Bethlehem Steel shut down in 1995 - the colossal mill that made the steel that built the Golden Gate Bridge and the vast majority of the New York City skyline. The plant is now a huge rusting abandoned hulk alongside a stupid shopping complex where once-proud steelworkers who could provide a great living for their families are now working stupid minimum wage McJobs. To all you globalist elitists and your associated [non-permissible content removed] politician friends MAY YOU ALL ROT IN HELL!!!
On a related topic about unions, the Delphi workers didn't get their pensions preserved as did GM workers.
Hearings
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yep, unions are not part of the problem!
Both IMO. I have several friends and relatives that work in the operating engineers, steel workers, and iron workers union etc and all of them got their jobs based on who they knew or were related to. Nepotism is alive and well.
What I'm not clear about is how this relates to the UAW.
I suppose it beats free-basing on the job
The difference between white collar and union is that the company can dump the poor performing white collar worker, while the union protects the losers bringing down all of the workers attitudes and performance longer term. I'm afraid that until Congress puts unions and employers on a true equal basis, unions and lawyers will bring the US down to a second rate country. Very sad what selfishness does to companies and countries in the long term.
I wonder what would happen if the entire US was made "right to work"? Would the northern firms stay union, or would the hard workers get tired of union dues supporting the losers and opt out? The southerners have already made it clear where they stand - everyone is expected to pull their fair share.
Carry on.
Wait, forget I said it that way.
I still can't get that. I mean, talk about a position primed to be automated. I mean, 99.95% of elevators in the world get by fine w/o somebody there to press buttons.
(I know an elevator in a construction zone is not the same in an office/apartment building)
Yeah, construction-type elevators are a lot more complex. The doors won't close automatically...you have to press and hold the button until they do close. I think you need a union-trained professional to handle one of them bad boys! :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
LOL, well ya know it's one of the most important jobs on the site. If the elevator operator doesn't show up, no one, or no materials go up or down, so the whole job is shut down. LOL. So, you the job needs to pay big bucks so someone will show up to actually do the job. No way anyone else could operate the elevator as it's not in anyone else's job classification. God forbid if the electrician doesn't show up to change a light bulb in the elevator, then what do they do?
On the Main Line - The Sting of Unemployment
I ran into something like that back in the 1990's. We had a display in a convention center in a hotel, and while we were allowed to take the display down and pack it up ourselves, we weren't allowed to pack it up ourselves. Had to wait on the union people to do that. And they took their sweet time. And, since I was on the clock, it put me into overtime. Not that I'm complaining, since back then I got 1.5X for OT. But it just goes to show what a waste it can all be.
One thing I'll say for the guy though, is at least he's trying to do something about it. Working two jobs and busting his butt, rather than sitting back and whining about it. The article said the guy only made $28 per hour, which is about $58K per year, so here's another one that probably started living a lifestyle that was too dependent on that OT lasting forever.
That's absolutely true. I used to work for an ad agency and we helped clients with trade shows etc. Chicago was the worst. We changed some display lighting and it required a longer extension cord than was originally setup. We had to wait for a union electrician to change the extension cord due to union rules, it took a damn hour to wait for the union guy to plug in the cord. We never had that kind of crap happen in other cities we'd setup displays. It was horrible, took twice as long to setup there than any other city we'd setup in.
Just not the way they have evolved. The highest priority for any worker should be the health of the company. That is the long view of keeping a good job, Union or non union.
Unfortunately, many believe a business exists only for the benefit of the employees. I know many and have worked for several small businesses owners. I've yet to meet an entrepreneur or any other type of small business owner risk their own resources to start a business just for the benefit of the employees. They did it for themselves.
It absolutely can and that's all the motivation I need to do my best and to continue to improve my skills and abilities. Nothing is guaranteed and I'm not entitled to keep any job. If I'm not productive or helping the company succeed then I should be shown the door. As proven in many industries none other than the auto industry, an excessively expensive workforce makes it very hard to compete.
I've not seen to many instances where a union has made a company stronger. How does keeping a dead beat on the job after multiple call offs and showing up late help anyone other than the dead beat at the expense of the other employees and the company.
I don't hate unions, but I seriously have a problem with excessive work restrictions/rules and protecting those who are not worth protecting. IMO, if you can't show up to work, you don't want your job bad enough to keep it.
I've read several reports claiming some UAW plants have had absenteeism rates of nearly 25% on some days. I couldn't imagine any organization being able to productively function when you can't count on 25% of your workforce to show up on any given day (I know that's not the norm for all UAW facilities).
I have first hand knowledge that some employees at Bethlehem steel were missing nearly 100 days a year and the union would prohibit them from being fired. No wonder Bethlehem went bankrupt.
Americans who've grown up in this country since WWII at least have an excuse for this mistaken notion. It used to be that the theme in employment was that companies would hire employees and do their best to keep them, by making their lives progressively better. This of course was good for both employees and employers. But that was before Reagan set about killing the unions; a project that the workers themselves helped considerably with.
Shows you the power of propaganda, that workers were soon convinced that unions were their worst enemies in the workplace. I've heard that so many times, from so many workers. The money folks elected more anti-union Representatives and Senators, and the workers -- the voters -- stayed out of the fray, as the unions effectively died under the government's own ministrations. Laws are still on the books, in fact, that set the framework for effective unions, but the Bureau of Labor just quit enforcing them, letting companies "draw out" negotiations permanently, so that no new contracts were ever signed, except by the most high-profile unions and shops. Not to mention outright union busting and hiring scab labor to take over union shops -- both frankly illegal, but the provisions were just never enforced.
The propaganda effort continues to this day, painting co-support by workers to be "socialism" if not "communism." Meanwhile, the lifestyle crunch on workers continues to bear down, with the consequences we are now seeing. This is phase three or four, of Cheap Labor Capitalism's takeover of America, and we who actually do the work of the country are still trying to sit on the sidelines -- as if there WERE any sidelines, in this CLASS WAR.
My take-away here, is that the whole project -- very nearly the whole history of our country, since its founding -- has been a hoodwink scam by Cheap Labor Capitalists to drive the cost of labor ever downward. You remember the press they turned out after Reagan, promoting global "free" trade as the panacea to domestic discontent? Another bait and switch, framing profit-taking by the Owning Class as a discontent of constrained markets. Everything was going to get better for workers, they said, (thanks, Bill Clinton) through increasing the levels of cheap workshops overseas. Riiiiiiiight! Now, after the "success" of that scheme, we have ever-richer people driving the ever-poorer workers into the gun shops, in a final desperate effort to get even.
The problem is, they are getting even with the wrong people. They really know it, too, which is why they wait until they're really desperate, to start shooting. The targets they really need to draw beads on are those who caused the mess in the first place. But those top rollers make double sure that they are out of the limelight.
I'm talking about the Rockefellers, Waltons, and Trumps of the world, and the media who shills for them. Have we seen enough by now, to know that we need to be rid of these people? Social evolution is a long story of the fight between those who just want to live, and those who want to exploit. Cheap Labor Capitalists have done their best to convince us that all American are of the latter sort, but I for one just want to live, and not be exploited.
Your post is obviously biased and exaggerated. The truth is that neither side is 100% responsible. Both the "Owning Class" (if I own stock, am I part of the owning class? :P ) as well as the workers are to blame.
Let's keep this discussion centered on the auto industry. We've talked about how the unions killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. However, they weren't responsible for not realizing the shift from big SUVs to smaller cars. That's management's fault. Both sides are responsible for where the situation in which the big 3 find themselves.
The difference is that management ran out of time (bankruptcy, govt bailouts) and at least it looks like they have changed their ways (don't build too many cars, build cars people want, etc.). However, at this point it seems that the Unions haven't changed their way of thinking. Sad very sad.
Where else would the inventions, products and services created by these people have come from? The UAW? We have enjoyed an incredible standard of living because of our ability to innovate, create, and overcome.
Without these people's accomplishments, I seriously doubt we would be enjoying our standard of living, let alone posting messages on this forum. We'd be hopping we grew enough food for ourselves to make it through the winter.
Some people think that labor is the most important element in producing something. That is so much baloney. An idea has to be built upon with capitol. Risk is involved. What risk does the UAW worker really have if a new model does not sell after they assembled the pieces. They already got paid. Maybe the Unions should work on a percentage. If the car sells for 25% less than expected the workers get 25% less. Do you hear them screaming yet?
You couldn't be more wrong, my friend. It makes less than no difference to me if I "matter" (whatever that means) to my employer. What drives my comfortable standard of living are the skills that I've mastered & that I continue to master - skills that my employer needs to keep up with the competition. Loyalty to my employer? If you define loyalty as not stealing office supplies or selling trade secrets, then I'm loyal. But that's as far as it goes. I'd jump ship tomorrow if a better offer came along, just as I'd expect my employer to dump me in a heartbeat if they could find a cheaper replacement. (Lots of luck with that, fellas!)
That's the way it is, & that's just how I like it. Perhaps you just noticed last week that it's no longer 1955, but I figured that out back in the 70s & decided to get ready for it.
Your screed is something right out of the 90s - the 1890s, that is. Have you memorized William Jennings Bryan's "Cross of Gold" speech?
"GM agreed over the summer to "top off" pension payments to members of the United Auto Workers union and two other unions while not doing the same for salaried retirees or members of smaller unions such as the operating engineers.
Preventing pension cuts to UAW retirees avoided a possible strike that could have derailed the new GM before it got up and running."
Congress Seeks Answers on Delphi Pensions (WGRZ)
It can't; I took early retirement... :P
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While that might keep you out of the unemployment line, your pension is still at risk unless 1) you took your pension as a lump sum, or 2) your former employer is financially sound with no chance of going under and 3) your pension plan is fully funded.
If PBGC has to take over a plan, one of things it is required to do is reduce the pensions of those who retired before age 65. That's what happened with many of the retirees from Bethlehem Steel.
I think that depends on the dollar amount of the pension - my sister took early retirement and then the company went banko and the PBGC took over her pension. The dollar amount didn't change.
In union news:
"Defying popular stereotype, CEOs and labor representatives sat on a panel and largely agreed on major issues confronting industry and working people.
She asked Ford if shedding the United Auto Workers would enhance his bottom line.
He said no:
“We are very happy with our union work force. There is a misconception that we want to get rid of the union.”
He [Bill Ford] said Ford collaborates with its union workers. He noted that he is a fourth generation Ford and walks through plants greeting many fourth generation UAW workers who are committed to Ford’s success. “Together we have gotten a lot done,” he said.
Union leaders have no qualms about negotiating with CEOs like Bill Ford for a fair split of the profit-pie in collective bargaining. But first, working together, we must make sure – with a manufacturing strategy and strong, enforced trade laws – that there is a pie. ."
CEOs, Union Leader agree: Manufacturing strategy crucial (The Hill)
I believe the PBGB lists the formula on their website, but it is calculated based on years of service and age up to certain max amounts.
When LTV went bankrupt, my FIL had 31 years in and was technically fully vested, but due to the fact he was only 53 at the time, he lost around 40% of his monthly pension.
Luckily, 2 and 3 are both true.
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Data for the Tax Filing Year 2008 show that a total of 1.523 million personal income tax filers were residing that year in a Right to Work state after residing somewhere else in the U.S. the previous year. Meanwhile, a total of 1.338 million tax filers were residing in a Right to Work state in 2007, but filed from somewhere else in the U.S. in 2008. That means a net total of 185,000 tax filers moved from a forced-unionism state to a Right to Work state between 2007 and 2008.
The SIS also calculates and makes available to the public the aggregate adjusted gross incomes for households in the year immediately following their move. Personal income tax filers moving to a Right to Work state between 2007 and 2008 reported a total of $76.432 billion in income in 2008, or roughly $50,190 per filer. Tax filers moving out of a Right to Work state during the same period reported a total of $61.773 billion in income in 2008, or roughly $46,165 per filer.
Both because of their substantial taxpayer losses due to net domestic outmigration, and because the taxpayers they gained earned significantly less per capita than did the taxpayers they lost, forced-dues states lost a total of $14.659 billion in adjusted gross income in a single year.
Over the last eight years for which data are available (Tax Filing Years 2001 through 2008), a net total of more than 1.63 million tax filers moved from a forced-unionism state to a Right to Work state. The annual net outflow ranged from 125,000 in the Tax Filing Year 2001 to 270,000 in the Tax Filing Year 2005.
Moreover, in all eight years, the average income of a tax filer moving to a Right to Work state was at least $3,000 higher (in 2008 dollars) than the average income for a tax filer leaving a Right to Work state. Counting just the income lost by forced-unionism states in the first year after each tax filer moved to a Right to Work state, forced-unionism states lost a net total of $124.3 billion (in constant 2008 dollars) due to domestic outmigration over this eight-year period.
This proves unionism is on the wane...for real good reasons.
Regards,
OW
If your not already retired has a great bearing on what you will get also. LTV (Ling-Temco-Vought) was forced to sell off its assets in its first attempt to file bankruptcy. The supreme court said that however, legal, this was a calculated attempt to stick it to the PBGB and that there would be copycats. Lets see what all LTV owned? National car rental, Wilson sporting goods, AM General (maker of Hummer), and a host of other collection comglomerate companies. The only reason they got into steel was to bilk over 30,000 retirees of their pensions. Ray Hay (former Xerox executive) was the CEO of LTV. Not to mention Paul Thayer (a very facinating person) who was convicted of insider trading.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,956351,00.html
LTV still hasn't made peace with the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the nation's pension-insurance agency, in a four-year blood feud over who should foot LTV's pension liabilities. The PBGC assumed LTV's $2 billion liabilities in 1987 following the company's bankruptcy filing. But the agreement soon fell apart. First, LTV's retirees rebelled when they realized they wouldn't get full benefits under the PBGC. And then, LTV--against the PBGC's wishes--negotiated new retirement benefits to avert a strike by the United Steelworkers.
Fearing for its own solvency, the PBGC ordered LTV in 1987 to reassume the pension liabilities. The issue went to the U. S. Supreme Court, which last June ratified the PBGC's action. Since then, the PBGC has proposed a repayment schedule of $300 million a year for 30 years, which LTV says it can't afford. Hoag and James Lockhart, the PBGC's executive director, are now trying to hammer out a workable repayment plan.
If talks fail, the pension plans could be terminated again, triggering another lengthy round of litigation. U. S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Burton R. Lifland has ordered LTV to prove by Feb. 28 that a pension settlement is at hand. Failing that, the judge could lift the company's exclusive right to propose a reorganization plan. And that could throw the bankruptcy into turmoil if creditors put forward competing plans.
'IMPERIOUS.' These headaches might have been avoided had it not been for Hay and Powers' swaggering manner during negotiations, say former PBGC officials. One example: During a July, 1987, meeting with PBGC officials and then-Labor Secretary William E. Brock III, Hay "demanded" that the Secretary reverse the PBGC's position throwing the pension liabilities back on LTV. When Brock refused, the officials say, Hay retorted: "I'll take this to the Hill." Adds Kathleen P. Utgoff, former PBGC director and now a private lawyer: "If we could have dealt with Dave Hoag, it might have been solved three years ago." Hay doesn't dispute the run-in with Brock but says he decided to go over the PBGC's head because of the agency's stubbornness during negotiations. Powers couldn't be reached.
http://www.businessweek.com/archives/1991/b320144.arc.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=zisEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=Ray+Hay+was+- the+CEO+of+LTV.&source=bl&ots=ppuQ2AR65a&sig=aatb7XvSqRpYvNx80c07ONLfy0w&hl=en&e- i=PJwhS8maD5WknQfmo9nZCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CCIQ6AEwCQ- #v=onepage&q=&f=false
This is typical and good reason we need unions like the UAW
http://gmcourtdocs.gardencitygroup.com/pdflib/2131_50026.pdf
Tell us how you really feel about greedy corporate America.
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Not all people in right to work states are non-union.
Key findings between union and non-union workers:
•Labor unions have a lot or some influence in today's economy (68 percent of union/61 percent of non-union workers agree).
•Satisfied with the pay they receive (75 percent of union and 72 percent of non-union workers, with 33 percent of union compared to 18 percent of non-union workers are very satisfied).
•Influence of labor unions decreasing (70 percent of union/66 percent of non-union workers).
•Has employer provided health insurance (85 percent of union/64 percent of non-union workers)?
•Has no health insurance at all for household (10 percent of non-union/1 percent of union workers).
•Of those with employer provided health insurance, 86 percent of union/77 percent of non-union workers offer positive ratings – union members nearly twice as intense in ratings at 38 percent to 20 percent excellent).
•With the current economy, 43 percent of union members and 45 percent of non-union workers are concerned about someone in their household losing their job.
•With current auto industry problems, there is more concern among union members (57 percent) than non-union workers (41 percent) that someone in their household will be asked by employers to make salary or benefit concessions.
•37 percent of non-union workers and only 17 percent of union workers say they are very certain to likely to change jobs in the next three years.
•23 percent of non-union workers and only 11 percent of union workers say they will leave Michigan in the next three years.
•"Are paid more for doing the same job" (78 percent of union/81 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"Has regularly scheduled pay increases" (75 percent of union/65 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"Has greater guarantees of job security" (80 percent of union/57 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"Has guaranteed health care benefits" (81 percent of union/66 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"Has guaranteed retirement benefits (80 percent of union/61 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"Has no real fear of being fired without just cause" (79 percent of union/60 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"Has stronger work rules (59 percent of union/44 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"Has safer workplace conditions" (73 percent of union/37 percent of non-union workers say more true of union workers).
•"It is better when workers have a contract with their employers which provides a written agreement of the wages and benefits employers will provide" (82 percent of union/44 percent of non-union workers say it is better when workers have a contract).
•Finally, if there were no labor unions, 73 percent of union members as well as 33 percent of non-union workers say employers would reduce wages and benefits for workers.
http://www.reliableplant.com/Article.aspx?pagetitle=Study:%20Union,%20non-union%- 20workers%20have%20their%20differences%20&articleid=8359
http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20030623ar01p1.htm
http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/why/uniondifference/uniondiff6.cfm
http://www.uaw.org/organize/difference.cfm
http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/09/0209/feature03.php
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1153/is_n2_v117/ai_14960908/
You are only fooling yourself if you think that they don't rue the day they declined that representation. As they look at an underfunded pension fund they see their error. We all make mistakes and wish we could go back in time. That’s real money and not monopoly money. Fact is that the hourly/UAW GM pension is currently overfunded. At one time the Boeing union pension fund was over one billion dollars overfunded.
I pay dues and more to offset the big corporate greed and special interests. I gladly pay my VCAP to get labors voice heard. Big labor offset/balance out the big corporations and big government. More or less like the three branches of government.
Case in point, Boeing and their decision to build a second Dreamliner production line in South Carolina. This one is either made or they're soon to make the decision. The IAM members in Washigton state could do nothing to stop it.
And the IAM is one of the big reasons they chose to go to SC. Because they can't afford to have the line stopped by the looney IAM members.
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