Quite sad for our country...I go to Germany and see the roads filled with Audi's BMW's and Mercedes...proud of their automobile industry, yet we spit in the face of ours. Apparently we have to lose all those jobs (and supplier jobs) before we understand the value of it.
If we had Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, and Porsche, I'd be damned proud too.
How many customers really ask a retail pharmacist any substantial question that isn't answered on the package insert, labels, or the internet? Darn few.
Retail pharmacists often get paid more than hospital pharmacists who must mix complex IVs and who deal with critically ill patients.
Retail pharmacists have low-paid techs do most of their work. And they do very little, if any, compounding anymore. They simply deal with the paperwork and billing and counting/matching pills. Computers tell them of drug interactions.
In the days of Apothecaries, I can understand the profession, but frankly, when we automate and digitize medical records more, the job will go by the wayside. I see no problem walking up to a Automated Counter, scanning my barcoded prescription ticket, the computer checking everything (much more comprehensively and faster than you ever can), and giving me my pills, instead of waiting around for somebody.
That's proof you can't always believe what you read in the papers or on the net. You'd be surprised how many people go to or call the RX before going to the Dr. The likes of Wag and CVS do have compounding pharmacies that serve the public and the likes of nursing homes and other small health facilities that don't have their own pharmacies, but it's true the bulk of prescriptions being filled do not require compounding. Heck, nearly 1/2 of an RX's time is used up trying to administer that mess called Medicare/medicaid.
But yeah, it is getting more automated particularly with the most common drugs. But even with the automated machines (which most busy pharmacies have) a pharmacist has to fill them and check the RX before they are given to a patient. Laws would have to change for you to just go to a drug dispenser like a Coke machine (and you know the Board of Pharmacy like the AMA would fight like hell to keep that from happening, these organizations are like a Union). Like any other process, automation is being used. But so far, due to the aging population the extra capacity is being used up. If it gets the point where RXs aren't needed anymore than so be it. Things change.
My best friend is an RX at a hospital and he's paid nearly the same as a retail rx. What he isn't offered in o/t he gets in comp time, plus he 7 on 7 off with 10 hour shifts, and gets paid about $120k. Not bad for 35hrs/wk looking at hot nurses all day, LOL. Plus they gave him a $15k sign on bonus last year. But his wife makes more than him as a software engineer working out of the house.
Sure, the Rx in a retail pharmacy is usually the highest paid employee in the store, but that's where all the money is made. My wife started as a cashier for her current employer while in HS and she worked her way up and they helped pay for school. Same with most of the store managers. They started as a clerk and worked their way up. They didn't walk in w/o any education or experience expecting a $40k plus job.
Hey this is off topic. There are some union RXs in Chicago and they are part of the United Steel Workers union.
The whole point of my original post was the professional educated women are competing with men for good paying jobs. The original post I commented on was commenting on sons vs. their fathers. I just wanted to bring up the other side of the coin.
I think that has more to do with the weak dollar than anything else.
That is your Keynesian economics at work. Weaken the dollar to dilute high wages. The Stimulus passed this year did exactly that. No real jobs created, just print more dollars worth less. The UAW is not the creator of the middle class. They have helped in the demise of the middle class. They built up wages and hopes beyond their real value with $100,000 fork lift operators. Why should Ford pay $30 per hour for workers when they can get Mexicans that are tickled to get $4.50 per hour? The US autoworkers that believed they were worth that kind of money are losing their homes, cars, families. When the jobs started migrating to Mexico decades back, the Union should have been honest and told their people, you are NOT worth what you are being paid. The UAW is to blame, may Walter Reuther rot in his grave on that fancy UAW golf course.
Whats the thoughts on the Cadillac plan tax on the national health insurance policies? Why were they named/coined Cadillac?
Cadillac, Mercedes, Lexus, Gold Plated, it is all the same. Those plans that are too generous will be a target of the one size fits all Health Care plan in Congress. Same goes for our Senior Advantage plan on Medicare. I am expecting to see those of US on Social Security hit with big increases as a result of the deal made with AARP. That bunch of worthless scumbags want to make more money on Medigap. They could not stand the fact that Kaiser and other well run plans were cutting into their cheese. Same goes for all those retired UAW workers. If they get to keep their 100% plans they will pay a tax to equal out with the rest of US. So far the only ones that will not get nicked are Congress with their GOLD PLATED Health Care plan. I think it is hilarious. You get what you voted for. When folks that were sitting fat, dumb and happy with company paid plans, start paying $300 to $500 per month, to cover for all the illegals getting free health care, we will hear some serious screaming.
The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, as has been the case since before WWII.
So the UAW should be happy to share the jobs with Mexico.
Then too, you need to come to grips with the fact that we are still the number one manufacturing nation on the planet. Most folks don't even realize how much bigger we are in comparison to the other nations. The macro-economics are somewhat interesting to interpret, if not more.
I never said that we weren't or can't be, only that we produce more with less people vs. 30 years ago etc.
I agree, I hear people often state nothing's made here anymore and I tell them, we make tons of stuff, just not the things you buy at Walmart.
Interesting reading, so I decided to compare my financial situation when I graduated college to my son's situation, who just graduated this past August and started working.
Me: Graduated in 1983 with a bachelor degree in computer science, started working for IBM upon graduation for $24K/year, bought a new Dodge Charger for about $8K because the body on my 76 Suburu had fallen apart, and had student loans when combined with my wife's was about $20K.
My son: Graduated in 2009 with a bachelor degree in engineering, started working for Cameron Intl for $60K/year, still driving a 2004 Toyota with 50K miles and should be good for several more years, has student loans of about $20K.
Based on this example, I'd say the current generation is doing better than mine. He's making almost 3 times as I did to start, has a better more reliable vehicle with no loan, and his student loans taking in to account inflation is much less than mine.
I am not sure where that writer got his information. It was not based on reality. I was not making near $40k working in Alaska in 1974. It was a Union job and I had 13 years experience. I did not crack $40k until the early 1980s. In 2006 when I retired, after 45 years, I was just over $100k. My young female trainee made the same as I did because that is the way Union jobs work. I retired at 63, she plans on retiring at 53. She will get a bigger retirement than I get.
Me: Graduated in 1983 with a bachelor degree in computer science, started working for IBM upon graduation for $24K/year
That sounds about right I'd say. When my grandpa past away a few years ago, we we're going through all his stuff (I don't think grandma threw anything away) and found his W2 from the last year he worked in 1979. That was his 43rd year at the steel mill. He made $25k. 4 years later you got an engineering degree and started out basically where he topped out. I'd say getting your degree was well worth it.
The key is education. Certainly the past year or so has been tough on many looking for a job, but those with a degree in a field that's in demand, engineering is definitely one of them. Jobs are out there. This is also a problem, as not everyone can go to school. We don't have the ability to send everyone to college and not everyone want to or is able to get an advanced degree. How we solve that problems is beyond me.
A friend of mine who's a civil engineer in Wichita, Ks was laid off last August from his employer that did a lot of work for the aviation industry. He found another job within 2 mos in Wichita and had a few other offers from different areas. Same with my BIL who was laid off in construction project management in Florida last Nov. He found a better paying job within 2 months, but had to move to Kansas City.
I think where you really see the difference is with those in the blue collar jobs. The mills and factories just don't employ the numbers they used to. In the 60's you could graduate from HS and get a livable wage at a factory somewhere (obviously this is not universal as poverty was a problem then as it is now). That factory guys son or daughter just can't expect a $50k/yr job right out of HS now. So if he or she doesn't go to college or a vocational school, they're flipping burgers, or running as cash register at the local store.
"Do you really think the situation would be the same without the offshoring to Chindia movement? "
obviously no. the opening up of China and India (and global competition in general) does two things, both to the detriment of labor:
1) it opens up the supply of vast amount of labor. When supply of something goes up, its prices go down.
2) it opens up a huge demand for capital, to develop those countries. that drives up the cost of and return on capital. thus making any capital investment in the US less economically viable.
"The rich get richer, the rest make do with less. "
the rich get richer because their value add (via capital) becomes more valuable and the poor gets poorer because their value-add (via labor) becomes less valuable.
that's free market. Before the opening up of China / India, capital was really held hostage to the US and western Europe. and it was OK for labor to demand high wages because capital had no place to go.
Now, the situation is different.
Is that a bad situation for labor? absolutely. Is that a bad situation for us individually? it depends. The single greatest thing about this country is that if you work hard enough, invest in yourself, you can reach your full potential.
if you had done well in school, got necessary training, worked hard, and invested wisely, you would have benefited from the flight of capital and lived your America dream.
It's certainly not a free market, it is a few conspiring to drive down costs to aid in expanding their already undeserved fortunes - no matter the consequences or negative externalities. There's no free market, never has been, never will be.
Endless examples of products with first world labor or other world labor existing in a void of social and environmental responsibility - with virtually no price difference for the end user. It is nothing more than increasing profit margins. Please don't be silly enough to insinuate there's some kind of 'low prices' altruism at work.
The growing socio-economic gap will eventually become a straw that breaks the camel's back. If you get slaughtered? Tough luck, nobody will mourn the loss...one less wannabe globalist.
That sounds about right I'd say. When my grandpa past away a few years ago, we we're going through all his stuff (I don't think grandma threw anything away) and found his W2 from the last year he worked in 1979. That was his 43rd year at the steel mill. He made $25k. 4 years later you got an engineering degree and started out basically where he topped out. I'd say getting your degree was well worth it.
My Granddad retired from working on the railroad in 1974 or 1975, making $6 per hour. That's only around $12,500 per year, but with inflation in those days, there was a big difference between 1974/5 and 1979! I think I ran the figures once, and by today's standards it would come out to around $58K per year. I'm sure he got a lot of OT on top of that. And Grandmom worked as well, so it's not like they were depending on his income alone.
They always seemed to live fairly well though. They'd usually buy a brand-new car every 3-4 years, although it was never anything extravagant....usually something like a Ford or Pontiac. Last car was a 1994 Taurus GL. When I was a little kid I used to think they were rich, because their house had three bathrooms! :P
" It is nothing more than increasing profit margins. "
you are absolutely right about that. That's why you don't go to your employeer demanding a pay reduction - as a profit maximizer, you want to maximize the profit margins (aka salary) on your services.
"Please don't be silly enough to insinuate there's some kind of 'low prices' altruism at work."
no profit maximizer in his right mind will "lower' prices on his goods / services. if you did that or expected that, you have far bigger problems to worry about.
it is competition and free market that will drive down the costs of goods and services - the labor pool in China / India drop down the cost of labor globally and Mexican immigrants drive down the cost of gardeners here, for example.
the only hope of you driving down the cost of capital is to increase its supply. aka through wealth accumulation, not wealth redistribution.
"The growing socio-economic gap will eventually become a straw that breaks the camel's back. "
that is already happening. 5% of the people in this country pay 30% of the income taxes and 10% of the people in this country pay 50% of the taxes and the bottom 50% of the people pay no taxes.
"If you get slaughtered? Tough luck, nobody will mourn the loss...one less wannabe globalist. "
if I let that happen to me, I deserve it - because that shows my inability to compete.
I would never whine and blame others for my own demise.
"My Granddad retired from working on the railroad in 1974 or 1975, making $6 per hour. That's only around $12,500 per year,"
a Porsche would cost you about $3k back then so your Granddad's salary was good for 4 of them.
now, a Porsche will likely set you back $100k, give or take a few. so a comparable job today would be roughly $400K, to maintain the purchase power parity.
a big chunk of it is due to dollar devaluation against other currencies. We went from the biggest creditor to the biggest debter between then and now.
the value of the dollar is artificially boosted by others desire to hold dollar as a reserve and trade currency. When that desire goes away (as we continue to spend recklessly), well, just look at what happened to the British and the Europeans.
a Porsche would cost you about $3k back then so your Granddad's salary was good for 4 of them.
Well I don't know what kind of Porsche you'd get for $3k, but in 1975, they paid $5,000 for a brand-new Dart Swinger. And that same year, my Mom bought a new LeMans for $5,000. I used to own a condo that, was built in late 1973, and originally sold for about $16,000.
In fact, I knew a guy and his wife at my second job who were from China. They told me life there for the average worker was unending drudgery and abject poverty. He moved to Indonesia and found extreme prejudice against Chinese and then left there to come to America.
My Granddad retired from working on the railroad in 1974 or 1975, making $6 per hour. That's only around $12,500 per year, but with inflation in those days, there was a big difference between 1974/5 and 1979! I think I ran the figures once, and by today's standards it would come out to around $58K per year.
I know the last year my grandpa worked, he did not work much if any o/t. My grandma worked most of her life too and my mom was an only child, so they lived fairly well. Retired with a summer and winter home all paid for and my Grandpa bought his new Buick every 4 years. Grandma was in charge of the credit department for a Sears store for many years.
That 58k a year you figured is pretty close to what they pay at the mills today w/o o/t. But right now some have been making less as they are not even getting 40 hours a week. A friend of mine made $120k as an electrician at Mittal Steel in 2007 working double after double. This year he'll be lucky to make $45k as many weeks he was only able to get 32 hours or so per week. I guess grandma was a bit ahead of her time.
Yeah, if I could buy a pair of Air Jordans for $5 and a well-tailored dress shirt cost 50 cents, I can see the benefit of offshore labor. However, that is not the case. Those Chinese-manufactured sneakers cost about $2 to make and the shirt cost a few pennies, yet they sell for $150 and $50 each. Obscene profits!
Well, as one wannabe globalist said to the other on the way to the guillotine, "Maybe we shouldn't have off-shored the blade manufacturing to China."
>"This is a family matter," Mr. Gerken, president of the board of commissioners, said in an interview. "My wife was in mind to get another car, her lease was up, and chose to buy an Ohio-built car - and that's her choice."
What's really hilarious is it's obvious who wears the pants in the family!!! They both sound like politicians trying to make it "okay" because the car is "built" in Ohio by a foreign company!!!
>Both he and Polly Taylor-Gerken, who ran unsuccessfully for Toledo City Council this fall, insisted yesterday that the leased Acura is solely hers by way of a Christmas gift. Husband and wife emphasized how the car was made in Ohio by American workers.
I would say his wife can give up on getting public office in Toledo by being elected! Maybe another Democrat will appoint her to something. Toledo has been hit by the losses after foreign companies had free reign for decades in Ohio... I don't think she'll get elected to council if she tries again in Toledo.
Those Chinese-manufactured sneakers cost about $2 to make and the shirt cost a few pennies, yet they sell for $150 and $50 each. Obscene profits!
Nike's net profit margin has averaged around 9% over the past 5 years. They may not spend much money to make the shoe, but they spend a ton to market and sell it. If you work for Nike, you want to be in marketing department or a pro athlete who gets paid millions to wear them. So instead of paying much to make the shoe they pay a lot to market it. Which is better? I guess it depends whether you make shoes, commercials, or swing a golf club really, really well!
Over 12% of Nike's gross sales are spent on marketing meaning $1.8 billion or so out of $19 Billion in sales. That's ALOT. Plus they earn 65% of their revenue's outside the US, so why shouldn't they make shoes overseas?
I still remember Tiger Woods getting $40 million from Nike before he went Pro. That was a LOT of shoes to sell. Anyone that pays $150 for a pair of Chinese sneakers has more money than brains. My brother buys them by the container load for 50 cents a pair with slight imperfections. Sells them to flea marketeers for a buck a pair. If the UAW made sneakers we would be paying a $1000 per pair.
Dude, by "getting slaughtered," I don't think he meant "not being able to compete in the global marketplace." It would be your fault if you get slaughtered because you didn't think to stock up on enough ammo or build that safe room secure enough.
The whole point of my original post was the professional educated women are competing with men for good paying jobs.
No need to get on the defensive. I fully support both you and your wife making your lot in life better. There is little doubt that men or women pharmacist are some of Americas best and brightest. Here too, in engineering circles, the gender as well as the ethniticity are changing.
The only part, and it sounded as such, that education was a sure thing to prosperity and employment. That is not the case if you look at some of the liberal arts degrees and even the business degrees are a dime a dozen these days. No matter how well your doing and or expect to do, always have a plan B and C and D. We are also seeing that the older professionals earn more and therefore the younger, just out of school, look more attractive.
The original post I commented on was commenting on sons vs. their fathers.
My oldest opted for chemical engineering. Offers for 80K to 85K were out there. However, he opted for better opportunity. He looked at the whole picture and made his judgment wisely. The money will come in due time. Its much better to do something that adds to your market value in the long run. Something that you want to do. If you like doing it, you may not have to work a day in your life.
Then I showed him that I, had other interests. From those other interests, I could and have generated much more income than my 4/10's weekly job. Back at the onset of my work life, I had three positions. I invested well, took much more leisure during my mid life, and could go as early as 2012. However, I might just plan to cutback my hours. The life-cycle theory in action....lol.
The only part, and it sounded as such, that education was a sure thing to prosperity and employment. That is not the case if you look at some of the liberal arts degrees and even the business degrees are a dime a dozen these days. No matter how well your doing and or expect to do, always have a plan B and C and D. We are also seeing that the older professionals earn more and therefore the younger, just out of school, look more attractive.
No arguing here. There are no guarantees. I do know people who are very successful w/o a college degree. As for plan A, B, & C. That's the key. You have to have a mind set that what looks rosy today, maybe crap tomorrow. So what will you do. Many will cry and whine that their bread and butter is gone. Others will adapt, move on to steak and potatoes. IMO, you have to have an open mind and be prepared for change, 'cause it's coming whether one likes it or not. Always has, always will.
My oldest opted for chemical engineering. Offers for 80K to 85K were out there. However, he opted for better opportunity. He looked at the whole picture and made his judgment wisely. The money will come in due time. Its much better to do something that adds to your market value in the long run. Something that you want to do. If you like doing it, you may not have to work a day in your life.
Then I showed him that I, had other interests. From those other interests, I could and have generated much more income than my 4/10's weekly job. Back at the onset of my work life, I had three positions. I invested well, took much more leisure during my mid life, and could go as early as 2012. However, I might just plan to cutback my hours. The life-cycle theory in action....lol.
That's what it's all about. Putting yourself in a position to choose your destiny. Many UAW members at the various auto plants thought the gravy train would last forever. Plan B and C was just a copy of plan A. They put all of their eggs in one basket. Any type of education beyond HS can help with plan B or C. My SIL has a elementary education degree and lives in Michigan. She never could find a teaching job, but she was able to get a better job with a large insurance company. She makes more now than she would have as a teacher and enjoys it. She would most likely not have gotten the job w/o a bachelors degree. So it still serves a purpose. But it comes down to the person to make anything happen.
Japan has a higher per capita. They are an aged society too. Per capita is the total manufacturing GNP divided by the population. So its a per person number/metric. Your not suggesting that children get manufacturing jobs to increase this meaningless number?
I do understand what your saying and we agree more than not. However, Gary is a different story. So for the record, I do believe that globalization will be good for mankind. When the planet reaches parity (the condition where there is an equalization in prices/wages worldwide) the consumer will benefit. However, to do drastic unplanned change, might bring on some unintended results or be problematic. Disruptions and dislocations in the economy, environmental issues, and other destabaling conditions. One only has to look at what the untethered laissez faire has created. Can someone really argue that the Wall Street meltdown could not have been avoided?
Japan has a higher per capita. They are an aged society too. Per capita is the total manufacturing GNP divided by the population. So its a per person number/metric. Your not suggesting that children get manufacturing jobs to increase this meaningless number?
LOL, of course not, but I was commenting on specific industries like the steel mills that use 1/3 of the employees to produce 2/3 of the output vs. 30 years ago.
Can someone really argue that the Wall Street meltdown could not have been avoided?
Absolutely not, that was a failure on so many levels, I don't know where to start or the time to type it all out!
Lordstown workers, like Jim Graham, don’t only want the Cruze to succeed — they say they need it to.
“This car is going to be a major part of the General Motors’ backbone, and we know that we have to make this thing work,” Graham says. “We have to make it work.”
Graham is president of the other United Auto Workers union’s local chapter at Lordstown. Two years ago, both locals followed the national union into a strike against GM. Now they’re working under a contract filled with wage and work-rule concessions.
But Graham says Lordstown has always had good labor-management relations.
Or, in other words, Kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
In the '70's, people would kill for a job in Auto in the US. Today, they're dyin' to get out!
The industry's most encompassing trend is market share, and judged by that metric, the decade was not kind to General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC - particularly after the decade's final year saw GM and Chrysler endure rupturing, though brief, Chapter 11 bankruptcies.
The numbers are scathing: in 1999, GM's market share was 30.1 percent; it now is 19.9 percent. Ford has ceded a similarly debilitating amount, shedding 8.8 points from 1999's 24.5 percent to 15.7 percent market share in 2009.
Chrysler has fallen from 15 percent market share in 1999 to 9 percent this year.
precisely. UAW never realized that their interests and the shareholders' are aligned in the sense that if GM is doing poorly, UAW members' long-term interests are hurt.
Instead, those guys focused on the short term gains at the expenses of the shareholders' and their own long term interests.
Others unions have gone through such cycles and learned their lessons - the steelworkers' union for example.
"Cost may be equal but in the end the higher labor costs in the US equals less demand for labor from workers.............. Still any job that comes to the states is going to use any means necessary to improve productivity to compensate for higher wages. There is no free lunch. That usually means more machines and less workers."
Nevertheless, if 200 American and some machinery are doing today what 1000 Chinese were doing last year, that's STILL 200 more of us working than were last year, making more this year, with more to spend. So next year maybe 250 people are now working at that factory because more people are working and can afford that product.
It's not fair to just point the finger at UAW. The entire career industry has collapsed. Both blue and white collar jobs have been dissappeared.
When I graduated from college in 97 (from a very good technical school), Ford and GM recruited heavily. There were long lines at their tables during the career fair. Can you imagine now? Nobody would stop by.
".....Why should Ford pay $30 per hour for workers when they can get Mexicans that are tickled to get $4.50 per hour?"
Because "we" belong here and "they" don't. Now if "they" build them in Mexico, "we" no longer have the money to buy a Ford, nor does our government have the tax base to pay for "our" retraining, as we don't have the money to either.
BTW, Gary HAAAAPPPY NEW YEEEEAR!!!!!!!!!! You old "phone guy", and Happy and Prosperous New Year to Everyone else, too :shades:
".......Is that a bad situation for labor? absolutely. Is that a bad situation for us individually? it depends. The single greatest thing about this country is that if you work hard enough, invest in yourself, you can reach your full potential."
I think the point is that now, because, as you said;
"1) it opens up the supply of vast amount of labor. When supply of something goes up, its prices go down."
No matter how hard you work, the potential is there to have your "potential" held down, because there are several people in other countries willing to do your job for way too much less.
Therefore even if you "......had done well in school, got necessary training, worked hard,".....you still end up with less capital to invest, and have a dimmer "American Dream"
Again HOW do you EARN capital if all the WORK is OVERSEAS??? Tiger was handed a check for $40 MILLION before he did a thing for them.
Most Americans want to get up go to work, do their job to the best of their ability, and go home to their little piece of God's green earth. They don't need $40 million, just a paycheck.
What they DON'T want is to keep looking over their shoulders, waiting for somebody in a foreign land to be given THEIR job, no matter how HARD they work, or how GOOD they are, just to fatten SOMEBODY ELSE'S wallet, somebody who doesn't need it.
".....The side threads about Nike and slave labor don't seem that related to the autoworkers union. "
The only point I was making is that no matter who makes the product, whether it be union here, non-union here, or elsewhere, the price of the finished good remains the same. The only thing that seems to change is the CEO's compensation, and the US workers LACK of compensation, because he (she) LACKS a JOB.
"Therefore even if you "......had done well in school, got necessary training, worked hard,".....you still end up with less capital to invest, and have a dimmer "American Dream"
Comments
If we had Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, and Porsche, I'd be damned proud too.
Darn few.
Retail pharmacists often get paid more than hospital pharmacists who must mix complex IVs and who deal with critically ill patients.
Retail pharmacists have low-paid techs do most of their work. And they do very little, if any, compounding anymore. They simply deal with the paperwork and billing and counting/matching pills. Computers tell them of drug interactions.
In the days of Apothecaries, I can understand the profession, but frankly, when we automate and digitize medical records more, the job will go by the wayside. I see no problem walking up to a Automated Counter, scanning my barcoded prescription ticket, the computer checking everything (much more comprehensively and faster than you ever can), and giving me my pills, instead of waiting around for somebody.
That's proof you can't always believe what you read in the papers or on the net. You'd be surprised how many people go to or call the RX before going to the Dr. The likes of Wag and CVS do have compounding pharmacies that serve the public and the likes of nursing homes and other small health facilities that don't have their own pharmacies, but it's true the bulk of prescriptions being filled do not require compounding. Heck, nearly 1/2 of an RX's time is used up trying to administer that mess called Medicare/medicaid.
But yeah, it is getting more automated particularly with the most common drugs. But even with the automated machines (which most busy pharmacies have) a pharmacist has to fill them and check the RX before they are given to a patient. Laws would have to change for you to just go to a drug dispenser like a Coke machine (and you know the Board of Pharmacy like the AMA would fight like hell to keep that from happening, these organizations are like a Union). Like any other process, automation is being used. But so far, due to the aging population the extra capacity is being used up. If it gets the point where RXs aren't needed anymore than so be it. Things change.
My best friend is an RX at a hospital and he's paid nearly the same as a retail rx. What he isn't offered in o/t he gets in comp time, plus he 7 on 7 off with 10 hour shifts, and gets paid about $120k. Not bad for 35hrs/wk looking at hot nurses all day, LOL. Plus they gave him a $15k sign on bonus last year. But his wife makes more than him as a software engineer working out of the house.
Sure, the Rx in a retail pharmacy is usually the highest paid employee in the store, but that's where all the money is made. My wife started as a cashier for her current employer while in HS and she worked her way up and they helped pay for school. Same with most of the store managers. They started as a clerk and worked their way up. They didn't walk in w/o any education or experience expecting a $40k plus job.
Hey this is off topic. There are some union RXs in Chicago and they are part of the United Steel Workers union.
The whole point of my original post was the professional educated women are competing with men for good paying jobs. The original post I commented on was commenting on sons vs. their fathers. I just wanted to bring up the other side of the coin.
education
That is your Keynesian economics at work. Weaken the dollar to dilute high wages. The Stimulus passed this year did exactly that. No real jobs created, just print more dollars worth less. The UAW is not the creator of the middle class. They have helped in the demise of the middle class. They built up wages and hopes beyond their real value with $100,000 fork lift operators. Why should Ford pay $30 per hour for workers when they can get Mexicans that are tickled to get $4.50 per hour? The US autoworkers that believed they were worth that kind of money are losing their homes, cars, families. When the jobs started migrating to Mexico decades back, the Union should have been honest and told their people, you are NOT worth what you are being paid. The UAW is to blame, may Walter Reuther rot in his grave on that fancy UAW golf course.
Whats the thoughts on the Cadillac plan tax on the national health insurance policies? Why were they named/coined Cadillac?
Cadillac, Mercedes, Lexus, Gold Plated, it is all the same. Those plans that are too generous will be a target of the one size fits all Health Care plan in Congress. Same goes for our Senior Advantage plan on Medicare. I am expecting to see those of US on Social Security hit with big increases as a result of the deal made with AARP. That bunch of worthless scumbags want to make more money on Medigap. They could not stand the fact that Kaiser and other well run plans were cutting into their cheese. Same goes for all those retired UAW workers. If they get to keep their 100% plans they will pay a tax to equal out with the rest of US. So far the only ones that will not get nicked are Congress with their GOLD PLATED Health Care plan. I think it is hilarious. You get what you voted for. When folks that were sitting fat, dumb and happy with company paid plans, start paying $300 to $500 per month, to cover for all the illegals getting free health care, we will hear some serious screaming.
The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, as has been the case since before WWII.
So the UAW should be happy to share the jobs with Mexico.
I never said that we weren't or can't be, only that we produce more with less people vs. 30 years ago etc.
I agree, I hear people often state nothing's made here anymore and I tell them, we make tons of stuff, just not the things you buy at Walmart.
We have Corvette. Almost as good as a Porsche.
Me: Graduated in 1983 with a bachelor degree in computer science, started working for IBM upon graduation for $24K/year, bought a new Dodge Charger for about $8K because the body on my 76 Suburu had fallen apart, and had student loans when combined with my wife's was about $20K.
My son: Graduated in 2009 with a bachelor degree in engineering, started working for Cameron Intl for $60K/year, still driving a 2004 Toyota with 50K miles and should be good for several more years, has student loans of about $20K.
Based on this example, I'd say the current generation is doing better than mine. He's making almost 3 times as I did to start, has a better more reliable vehicle with no loan, and his student loans taking in to account inflation is much less than mine.
That sounds about right I'd say. When my grandpa past away a few years ago, we we're going through all his stuff (I don't think grandma threw anything away) and found his W2 from the last year he worked in 1979. That was his 43rd year at the steel mill. He made $25k. 4 years later you got an engineering degree and started out basically where he topped out. I'd say getting your degree was well worth it.
The key is education. Certainly the past year or so has been tough on many looking for a job, but those with a degree in a field that's in demand, engineering is definitely one of them. Jobs are out there. This is also a problem, as not everyone can go to school. We don't have the ability to send everyone to college and not everyone want to or is able to get an advanced degree. How we solve that problems is beyond me.
A friend of mine who's a civil engineer in Wichita, Ks was laid off last August from his employer that did a lot of work for the aviation industry. He found another job within 2 mos in Wichita and had a few other offers from different areas. Same with my BIL who was laid off in construction project management in Florida last Nov. He found a better paying job within 2 months, but had to move to Kansas City.
I think where you really see the difference is with those in the blue collar jobs. The mills and factories just don't employ the numbers they used to. In the 60's you could graduate from HS and get a livable wage at a factory somewhere (obviously this is not universal as poverty was a problem then as it is now). That factory guys son or daughter just can't expect a $50k/yr job right out of HS now. So if he or she doesn't go to college or a vocational school, they're flipping burgers, or running as cash register at the local store.
obviously no. the opening up of China and India (and global competition in general) does two things, both to the detriment of labor:
1) it opens up the supply of vast amount of labor. When supply of something goes up, its prices go down.
2) it opens up a huge demand for capital, to develop those countries. that drives up the cost of and return on capital. thus making any capital investment in the US less economically viable.
"The rich get richer, the rest make do with less. "
the rich get richer because their value add (via capital) becomes more valuable and the poor gets poorer because their value-add (via labor) becomes less valuable.
that's free market. Before the opening up of China / India, capital was really held hostage to the US and western Europe. and it was OK for labor to demand high wages because capital had no place to go.
Now, the situation is different.
Is that a bad situation for labor? absolutely. Is that a bad situation for us individually? it depends. The single greatest thing about this country is that if you work hard enough, invest in yourself, you can reach your full potential.
if you had done well in school, got necessary training, worked hard, and invested wisely, you would have benefited from the flight of capital and lived your America dream.
you didn't? tough luck.
Endless examples of products with first world labor or other world labor existing in a void of social and environmental responsibility - with virtually no price difference for the end user. It is nothing more than increasing profit margins. Please don't be silly enough to insinuate there's some kind of 'low prices' altruism at work.
The growing socio-economic gap will eventually become a straw that breaks the camel's back. If you get slaughtered? Tough luck, nobody will mourn the loss...one less wannabe globalist.
My Granddad retired from working on the railroad in 1974 or 1975, making $6 per hour. That's only around $12,500 per year, but with inflation in those days, there was a big difference between 1974/5 and 1979! I think I ran the figures once, and by today's standards it would come out to around $58K per year. I'm sure he got a lot of OT on top of that. And Grandmom worked as well, so it's not like they were depending on his income alone.
They always seemed to live fairly well though. They'd usually buy a brand-new car every 3-4 years, although it was never anything extravagant....usually something like a Ford or Pontiac. Last car was a 1994 Taurus GL. When I was a little kid I used to think they were rich, because their house had three bathrooms! :P
you are absolutely right about that. That's why you don't go to your employeer demanding a pay reduction - as a profit maximizer, you want to maximize the profit margins (aka salary) on your services.
"Please don't be silly enough to insinuate there's some kind of 'low prices' altruism at work."
no profit maximizer in his right mind will "lower' prices on his goods / services. if you did that or expected that, you have far bigger problems to worry about.
it is competition and free market that will drive down the costs of goods and services - the labor pool in China / India drop down the cost of labor globally and Mexican immigrants drive down the cost of gardeners here, for example.
the only hope of you driving down the cost of capital is to increase its supply. aka through wealth accumulation, not wealth redistribution.
"The growing socio-economic gap will eventually become a straw that breaks the camel's back. "
that is already happening. 5% of the people in this country pay 30% of the income taxes and 10% of the people in this country pay 50% of the taxes and the bottom 50% of the people pay no taxes.
"If you get slaughtered? Tough luck, nobody will mourn the loss...one less wannabe globalist. "
if I let that happen to me, I deserve it - because that shows my inability to compete.
I would never whine and blame others for my own demise.
a Porsche would cost you about $3k back then so your Granddad's salary was good for 4 of them.
now, a Porsche will likely set you back $100k, give or take a few. so a comparable job today would be roughly $400K, to maintain the purchase power parity.
a big chunk of it is due to dollar devaluation against other currencies. We went from the biggest creditor to the biggest debter between then and now.
the value of the dollar is artificially boosted by others desire to hold dollar as a reserve and trade currency. When that desire goes away (as we continue to spend recklessly), well, just look at what happened to the British and the Europeans.
Well I don't know what kind of Porsche you'd get for $3k, but in 1975, they paid $5,000 for a brand-new Dart Swinger. And that same year, my Mom bought a new LeMans for $5,000. I used to own a condo that, was built in late 1973, and originally sold for about $16,000.
I know the last year my grandpa worked, he did not work much if any o/t. My grandma worked most of her life too and my mom was an only child, so they lived fairly well. Retired with a summer and winter home all paid for and my Grandpa bought his new Buick every 4 years. Grandma was in charge of the credit department for a Sears store for many years.
That 58k a year you figured is pretty close to what they pay at the mills today w/o o/t. But right now some have been making less as they are not even getting 40 hours a week. A friend of mine made $120k as an electrician at Mittal Steel in 2007 working double after double. This year he'll be lucky to make $45k as many weeks he was only able to get 32 hours or so per week. I guess grandma was a bit ahead of her time.
LOL, maybe the VW bug kind!
Well, as one wannabe globalist said to the other on the way to the guillotine, "Maybe we shouldn't have off-shored the blade manufacturing to China."
What's really hilarious is it's obvious who wears the pants in the family!!! They both sound like politicians trying to make it "okay" because the car is "built" in Ohio by a foreign company!!!
>Both he and Polly Taylor-Gerken, who ran unsuccessfully for Toledo City Council this fall, insisted yesterday that the leased Acura is solely hers by way of a Christmas gift. Husband and wife emphasized how the car was made in Ohio by American workers.
I would say his wife can give up on getting public office in Toledo by being elected! Maybe another Democrat will appoint her to something. Toledo has been hit by the losses after foreign companies had free reign for decades in Ohio... I don't think she'll get elected to council if she tries again in Toledo.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The profits from the cheap labor exploitation in foreign countries has benefitted CEOs and shareholders, not the consumer.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Nike's net profit margin has averaged around 9% over the past 5 years. They may not spend much money to make the shoe, but they spend a ton to market and sell it. If you work for Nike, you want to be in marketing department or a pro athlete who gets paid millions to wear them. So instead of paying much to make the shoe they pay a lot to market it. Which is better? I guess it depends whether you make shoes, commercials, or swing a golf club really, really well!
Over 12% of Nike's gross sales are spent on marketing meaning $1.8 billion or so out of $19 Billion in sales. That's ALOT. Plus they earn 65% of their revenue's outside the US, so why shouldn't they make shoes overseas?
"How ya fixed for blades?"
And some boxes would ship with a beer can inside, or a shoe string missing, maybe even an entire shoe missing. LOL!
hats off to those capitalists who are enjoying that fat margin.
if you think it is too good, put your capital at risk by going into the business. Maybe one day you will earn more.
You don't have any capital? tough luck.
No need to get on the defensive. I fully support both you and your wife making your lot in life better. There is little doubt that men or women pharmacist are some of Americas best and brightest. Here too, in engineering circles, the gender as well as the ethniticity are changing.
The only part, and it sounded as such, that education was a sure thing to prosperity and employment. That is not the case if you look at some of the liberal arts degrees and even the business degrees are a dime a dozen these days. No matter how well your doing and or expect to do, always have a plan B and C and D. We are also seeing that the older professionals earn more and therefore the younger, just out of school, look more attractive.
The original post I commented on was commenting on sons vs. their fathers.
My oldest opted for chemical engineering. Offers for 80K to 85K were out there. However, he opted for better opportunity. He looked at the whole picture and made his judgment wisely. The money will come in due time. Its much better to do something that adds to your market value in the long run. Something that you want to do. If you like doing it, you may not have to work a day in your life.
Then I showed him that I, had other interests. From those other interests, I could and have generated much more income than my 4/10's weekly job. Back at the onset of my work life, I had three positions. I invested well, took much more leisure during my mid life, and could go as early as 2012. However, I might just plan to cutback my hours. The life-cycle theory in action....lol.
Peace UAW
No problem, didn't mean to come across that way.
The only part, and it sounded as such, that education was a sure thing to prosperity and employment. That is not the case if you look at some of the liberal arts degrees and even the business degrees are a dime a dozen these days. No matter how well your doing and or expect to do, always have a plan B and C and D. We are also seeing that the older professionals earn more and therefore the younger, just out of school, look more attractive.
No arguing here. There are no guarantees. I do know people who are very successful w/o a college degree. As for plan A, B, & C. That's the key. You have to have a mind set that what looks rosy today, maybe crap tomorrow. So what will you do. Many will cry and whine that their bread and butter is gone. Others will adapt, move on to steak and potatoes. IMO, you have to have an open mind and be prepared for change, 'cause it's coming whether one likes it or not. Always has, always will.
My oldest opted for chemical engineering. Offers for 80K to 85K were out there. However, he opted for better opportunity. He looked at the whole picture and made his judgment wisely. The money will come in due time. Its much better to do something that adds to your market value in the long run. Something that you want to do. If you like doing it, you may not have to work a day in your life.
Then I showed him that I, had other interests. From those other interests, I could and have generated much more income than my 4/10's weekly job. Back at the onset of my work life, I had three positions. I invested well, took much more leisure during my mid life, and could go as early as 2012. However, I might just plan to cutback my hours. The life-cycle theory in action....lol.
That's what it's all about. Putting yourself in a position to choose your destiny. Many UAW members at the various auto plants thought the gravy train would last forever. Plan B and C was just a copy of plan A. They put all of their eggs in one basket. Any type of education beyond HS can help with plan B or C. My SIL has a elementary education degree and lives in Michigan. She never could find a teaching job, but she was able to get a better job with a large insurance company. She makes more now than she would have as a teacher and enjoys it. She would most likely not have gotten the job w/o a bachelors degree. So it still serves a purpose. But it comes down to the person to make anything happen.
Japan has a higher per capita. They are an aged society too. Per capita is the total manufacturing GNP divided by the population. So its a per person number/metric. Your not suggesting that children get manufacturing jobs to increase this meaningless number?
I do understand what your saying and we agree more than not. However, Gary is a different story. So for the record, I do believe that globalization will be good for mankind. When the planet reaches parity (the condition where there is an equalization in prices/wages worldwide) the consumer will benefit. However, to do drastic unplanned change, might bring on some unintended results or be problematic. Disruptions and dislocations in the economy, environmental issues, and other destabaling conditions. One only has to look at what the untethered laissez faire has created. Can someone really argue that the Wall Street meltdown could not have been avoided?
LOL, of course not, but I was commenting on specific industries like the steel mills that use 1/3 of the employees to produce 2/3 of the output vs. 30 years ago.
Can someone really argue that the Wall Street meltdown could not have been avoided?
Absolutely not, that was a failure on so many levels, I don't know where to start or the time to type it all out!
And a reminder, this one is about the UAW, not other members and their initials.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/05/gm_looks_to_chi.html-
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/22/national/main555131.shtml
I love Ohio.
http://kosu.org/2009/08/after-summer-shutdown-ohio-gm-plant-reopens/
‘We Have To Make It Work’
Lordstown workers, like Jim Graham, don’t only want the Cruze to succeed — they say they need it to.
“This car is going to be a major part of the General Motors’ backbone, and we know that we have to make this thing work,” Graham says. “We have to make it work.”
Graham is president of the other United Auto Workers union’s local chapter at Lordstown. Two years ago, both locals followed the national union into a strike against GM. Now they’re working under a contract filled with wage and work-rule concessions.
But Graham says Lordstown has always had good labor-management relations.
In the '70's, people would kill for a job in Auto in the US. Today, they're dyin' to get out!
The industry's most encompassing trend is market share, and judged by that metric, the decade was not kind to General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC - particularly after the decade's final year saw GM and Chrysler endure rupturing, though brief, Chapter 11 bankruptcies.
The numbers are scathing: in 1999, GM's market share was 30.1 percent; it now is 19.9 percent. Ford has ceded a similarly debilitating amount, shedding 8.8 points from 1999's 24.5 percent to 15.7 percent market share in 2009.
Chrysler has fallen from 15 percent market share in 1999 to 9 percent this year.
No dream jobs just UAW Dreamin'!
How's that UAW career workin' out now??
Regards,
OW
The side threads about Nike and slave labor don't seem that related to the autoworkers union.
precisely. UAW never realized that their interests and the shareholders' are aligned in the sense that if GM is doing poorly, UAW members' long-term interests are hurt.
Instead, those guys focused on the short term gains at the expenses of the shareholders' and their own long term interests.
Others unions have gone through such cycles and learned their lessons - the steelworkers' union for example.
Nevertheless, if 200 American and some machinery are doing today what 1000 Chinese were doing last year, that's STILL 200 more of us working than were last year, making more this year, with more to spend. So next year maybe 250 people are now working at that factory because more people are working and can afford that product.
But Gary, they do, and I own one.
How's that UAW career workin' out now??
It's not fair to just point the finger at UAW. The entire career industry has collapsed. Both blue and white collar jobs have been dissappeared.
When I graduated from college in 97 (from a very good technical school), Ford and GM recruited heavily. There were long lines at their tables during the career fair. Can you imagine now? Nobody would stop by.
Because "we" belong here and "they" don't. Now if "they" build them in Mexico, "we" no longer have the money to buy a Ford, nor does our government have the tax base to pay for "our" retraining, as we don't have the money to either.
BTW, Gary HAAAAPPPY NEW YEEEEAR!!!!!!!!!! You old "phone guy", and Happy and Prosperous New Year to Everyone else, too :shades:
I think the point is that now, because, as you said;
"1) it opens up the supply of vast amount of labor. When supply of something goes up, its prices go down."
No matter how hard you work, the potential is there to have your "potential" held down, because there are several people in other countries willing to do your job for way too much less.
Therefore even if you "......had done well in school, got necessary training, worked hard,".....you still end up with less capital to invest, and have a dimmer "American Dream"
Again HOW do you EARN capital if all the WORK is OVERSEAS??? Tiger was handed a check for $40 MILLION before he did a thing for them.
Most Americans want to get up go to work, do their job to the best of their ability, and go home to their little piece of God's green earth. They don't need $40 million, just a paycheck.
What they DON'T want is to keep looking over their shoulders, waiting for somebody in a foreign land to be given THEIR job, no matter how HARD they work, or how GOOD they are, just to fatten SOMEBODY ELSE'S wallet, somebody who doesn't need it.
The only point I was making is that no matter who makes the product, whether it be union here, non-union here, or elsewhere, the price of the finished good remains the same. The only thing that seems to change is the CEO's compensation, and the US workers LACK of compensation, because he (she) LACKS a JOB.
hi, life isn't fair so suck it up.
that's the risk you take when all you have (labor) is an abundant commodity, unlike capital, or managerial skills.