like UAW pricing themselves out of a job kind of greed? or wealth-redistributionist kind of greed? or my money is mine and your money is mine too kind of greed?
Pretty soon people with advanced degrees will become like day laborers. A guy in a pickup truck will pull up to a group of them standing outside the Home Depot, "I need a systems analyst, a financial manager, a pharmacist, and a programmer. I'll take you, you, you, and......you!"
There's an .mpg file I have that's just what you described. Anyone know of a way I can post it to Edmunds?
And for the most part, I think cars are one thing that have gone down in price, relative to inflation. No matter how much we whine about how expensive they are
Anything with electronics in it is probably cheaper in relative and, in many cases, absolute terms, today than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Just think of television sets, or cell phones. Remember the big, boxy portable phones of 20+ years ago?
I don't think being drawn in by falsified data really falls under due diligence. How many years did he appear to be on the up and up, with no suspicions?
He was paying people 25% and more on their investments. That should have been a red flag. I don't feel bad for those taken by Madoff. They were being greedy as well. And putting your entire portfolio in one place is not real bright. I did not go to college and know that much.
I am also fortunate to have a good Union retirement. Unlike those in the ponzi scheme cooked up by the UAW leadership. At the very least the UAW leaders should have gotten proactive when GM, F and C started losing market share to the imports. Instead of protecting their members retirements they added more out in the future. About 10 years before I retired we negotiated a separate 401K plan in addition to our Teamster retirement. So if for some reason our currently well funded Union retirement went broke We could fall back on the 401K. This was instigated by the Teamster leadership in Alaska with several of their bargaining units. The 401K was separate in a Fidelity plan that we have complete control over. The UAW leadership has let their members down for decades.
"The United Auto Workers union is prepared to take over retiree health-care plans from the three U.S. automakers tomorrow, President Ron Gettelfinger said."
I would bet there will be some rude awakenings when the gold plated plan turns into a tin pan plan.
Irresponsible higher ups are the reason behind the entire mess. No debating about it.
Sorry, but you're wrong. In the auto industry, both "irresponsible higher ups" as well as the UAW are to blame. Neither side is blameless, but neither side is 100% responsible.
I will not discuss the overall economy as this is not the forum to do it. This forum is to talk about the UAW. Let's keep it that way.
The entire Detroit auto business model eroded from greed on both sides of the structure (management and labor) and success turned into junk.
I know that we love to blame greed for just about everything that's wrong with the world, but I'm not sure that it really explains very much. Human beings have been greedy since before they learned to walk on their hind legs.
Greed is baked into us. We're all greedy, at least some of the time. I'm sure that Steve Jobs is at least a little bit greedy; his personal net worth is north of $5 billion. But we overlook Steve's greed because his company turns out gorgeous products that many of us crave.
I'd say that GM would actually be better off today if more of its top people had been greedy the way Jobs is. GM's troubles weren't caused by greed - they were caused by corporate apathy & unresponsiveness. GM failed because it turned into something resembling a government agency. Its employees developed a civil service mentality, caring more about their pensions & perks than about pleasing customers.
Almost without exception, truly successful companies are those for which the customer is the center of the universe. Their leaders sit up late at night, trying to figure out what their customers really want. GM was that way in the 50s & 60s but then morphed into a European-style bureaucracy that was mainly concerned with keeping its internal constituencies - the union & the white-collar functionaries - happy. It lost its obsession with pleasing customers, & when it lost that, it lost its competitive edge.
While GM's management hacks are largely responsible for this sorry state of affairs, the UAW's hands aren't clean. Layers of work rules made it impossible for even good managers (not that GM had many of those) to shift direction quickly in response to changing market conditions.
Companies that don't focus on what customers want deserve to die.
Just like your Teamsters did in Anchorage when they owned their own hospital there eh?
Hardly, that hospital and the rec center nearly bankrupted the Union. We sold it all including the big office complex. Now we are in a much smaller facility on Boniface. Thankfully the Teamsters unlike the UAW did not remain on the path of destruction. We invested the money in Palm Desert and have made over $400 million to date on our Indian Wells investments. Funny thing is the Teamsters hired the top finance guy from RCA, and he put the whole money making package together.
I'm sure that Steve Jobs is at least a little bit greedy; his personal net worth is north of $5 billion.
Just a side note. Steve Jobs never hit a $Billion until he left Apple the first time and started making cartoons. I am sure his recent hits have been very lucrative. I have no problem with people making Zillions of dollars if their leadership produced the products that made the money. Some people hate anyone that is rich. I may be envious. Never wish them ill.
Yes, I meant in terms of the general economy. In terms of the big 3, the unions got greedy and the suits got incompetent. One side might hold more responsibility than the other, but it is probably close to a tie in who made the mess.
Irresponsible higher ups are the reason behind the entire mess.
You are giving the UAW a big pass that is undeserved. It is not only "higher ups" . Greed and corruption know no class levels. To say it is only the top 10% is really naive. Let's spread the relevant blame across ALL the levels that it is deserved.
Well, you can call it an internal bureaucracy-centric and that is indeed correct. The greed is the distilled problem. The extra verbiage aside, it's that basic instinct that drives success or failure.
That's why the act of focusing solely on the customer is the exact opposite of greed and this "giving" breeds total success. It's the pure ingredient.
UAW are greed-centric. It started as a defensive coalition that was overcome by the "G" factor. The products directly suffered for it and the GM and C did die from it (Ford is on life support with the UAW lurking). Of course, the UAW factor lives on to kill another day!
Disagree. Greed is the problem. Desire is what lifted many people out of poverty and put the middle class where it is.
Put the desire back in the cars and keep that focus instead of worrying about pampering the union bureaucracy. It's about balance....upset it and reap the result.
No. A better way of putting it is greed is desire run-amok. No matter how much you have, it's not enough.
Got $100K, then gotta have $200K cause it must be better. Got $200K, then gotta have $500K cause it must be better. Got $500K, then gotta have $1M cause it must be better.
I'm probably mincing words, but to me, greed always meant trying to get more than your fair share, something you're not entitled to, profiting at the expense of others, etc. Simply trying to better yourself, that's not greed...that's ambition, desire, or whatever.
Nothing wrong with wanting to be rich. It's how you go about it that matters.
"Got $500K, then gotta have $1M cause it must be better. "
that's essentially how capitalism works: maximize your profit. if you can get $200K, don't settle for $100K. if you can get $500K, don't settle for $200K.
when was it that you refuse a pay raise from your boss?
I think we can use greed in more than one way. The greed of the UAW workers for more than the company could afford was Bad.
GREED –noun excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions. Origin: 1600–10; back formation from greedy
Synonyms: avarice, avidity, cupidity, covetousness; voracity, ravenousness, rapacity. Greed, greediness denote an excessive, extreme desire for something, often more than one's proper share. Greed means avid desire for gain or wealth (unless some other application is indicated) and is definitely uncomplimentary in implication: His greed drove him to exploit his workers. Greediness, when unqualified, suggests a craving for food; it may, however, be applied to all avid desires, and need not be always uncomplimentary: greediness for knowledge, fame, praise.
"The greed of the UAW workers for more than the company could afford was Bad. "
even in the case of the UAW, I think they did the right thing to ask more for their members - there is nothing wrong with that. if GM shareholders don't like it, they are free to invest somewhere else where labor is more corporative.
UAW does deserve blame for not anticipating how the shareholders would have reacted and choking their members' livelihood to death.
UAW let their short term greed get in the way of their long-term interests.
And the higher ups deserve blame for not being able to change with the times and produce products seen as desireable by their market. They did a poor job at maximizing profits for investors. Of course, one side gets raked over the coals more than the other in a society taught to bend over for the top few.
Yeah! I remember a friend who had a "bag phone" back in 1988 and he thought it was so cool and high-tech! There's a "Free Credit Report.com" ad that makes fun of those old phones that were about the size of a brick.
Agreed. It's the collective greed that causes failure...not the desire to continuously improve one's position.
But if you make more than I do for the same job and you are performing at 50% and backed by the UAW "work rules", I might as well scale back to conform. Makes sense to me. Let's make sure everyone stays in line, or else!
Yes indeed, the higher ups didn't play hardball and reign in costs when they could have...they had nothing to lose then, as the problems wouldn't be seen until they were long gone. Yet another case of American management failing to grasp longterm thinking.
Just as the UAW has done...but we just get to hear that American automakers are uncompetitive because of union demands, not because of shoddy management and virtually invisible planning.
Yes indeed, the higher ups didn't play hardball and reign in costs when they could have...they had no incentive to care, as the problems wouldn't be seen until they were long gone. Yet another case of American management failing to grasp longterm thinking.
Just as the UAW has done...but we just get to hear that American automakers are uncompetitive because of union demands, not because of shoddy management and virtually invisible planning.
"but we just get to hear that American automakers are uncompetitive because of union demands, not because of shoddy management and virtually invisible planning."
the US automakers are clearly not competitive because of union demands.
I have yet to hear anyone excusing management for GM's inability to compete.
if you do, you must be living in a different universe.
".....Au contraire! My POS 2003 GMC Yukon Denali was the last GM I buy,"
While it may be the last YOU buy, $2 gas may have kept the momentum going for full sized SUV's. How many people downsized to a smaller vehicle from a full sized SUV?? How many more full sized trucks and SUV's would be on the road as opposed to smaller CUV's and cars had gas remained stable?
There is plenty of blame to go around as far as greed goes. The UAW may have priced themselves at the upper end of the spectrum, but there is NOWHERE in the USA that can compete with Mexachindian labor rates that pay $400 a MONTH instead of $400 a week.
...and this is pertinent to the UAW and the auto industry:
"Disruption is the essence of progress. Some of what was is superseded by something new. Typically the incumbent technologies and powers either fight progress tooth and nail, try to co-opt it, or try to at least manage it's pace to something they can control. When too much incumbent power is too successful at slowing progress, that progress tends to move somewhere else."
Sounds like the UAW to me, and the offshoring of manufacturing jobs.
How many more full sized trucks and SUV's would be on the road as opposed to smaller CUV's and cars had gas remained stable?
There was never a good reason for believing that gas prices would remain stable, & any company that makes stuff that runs on gasoline should have figured this out decades ago. It was obvious long before Katrina hit - that was in August, 2005 - that gas prices were heading up. Prices had bottomed out years earlier - in the 1st quarter of 1999, in fact - & rising gas prices were already an issue in the 2000 Presidential campaign. That was 5 years before Katrina.
Anyone with a 3-digit IQ could have told GM's top brass that one bad hurricane season could kick the boards out from under the market for truck-based SUVs. GM should have been ready with a line of competitive, well-styled & up-to-date cars & CUVs. Instead, the company had to fall back on a line of the least-appealing vehicles this side of the Iron Curtain.
Do I need to post the data vs. 1999??? Trucks and full sized BoF SUV's will decline in sales going forward....no return to the craze period of the late 90's early 2K.
Ford F-150 486,209 in 1999, 250,791 in 2009. Silerado 396,803 in 1999, 219,503 in 2009.
The GM Clone SUVs and the Ford SUV's will NEVER sell the same again. Yes, there will always be customers, just not a wide market ever again....regardless of the gas price because it's all about the price in today's market.
You hold the same view as the old GM management! :sick:
Sounds like the UAW to me, and the offshoring of manufacturing jobs.
EXACTLY! That's why I'm not angry with the UAW, only with the Gov't that bailed them out! You see, at the end of the day, they will have driven the manufacturing of autos to a new lower price point with much better quality and performance.
precisely. had not been for UAW, we wouldn't have the Japanese who brought us Lexus, Infiniti, Toyota and Honda, among others. and the Germans wouldn't have improved upon their quality from a near-death experience in the early 1990s. and we wouldn't have the Korean here too.
so in the end, UAW's greed worked out really well for the consumers in the long run.
It is only bad for the UAW members and GM shareholders.
had not been for UAW, we wouldn't have the Japanese who brought us Lexus, Infiniti, Toyota and Honda, among others. and the Germans wouldn't have improved upon their quality from a near-death experience in the early 1990s. and we wouldn't have the Korean here too.
so in the end, UAW's greed worked out really well for the consumers in the long run.
Don't forget that it was the UAW protectionism that opened the door to the Japanese marquees building luxury cars and selling them in this country. In the early 1980's, there was huge demand for small economical (and cheaper) Japanese cars. The US automakers (re: UAW) screamed for protectionism. Ronald Reagan bowed to some pressure by agreeing to "voluntary quotas" from the Japanese. Since the Japanese (mostly Honda, Toyota, and Nissan at that time) agreed to sell only x units/year in the US, they up-contented those vehicles due to the high demand. They also added bigger, higher-priced cars (like the Cressida). They also started building assembly plants in the US to be able to sell what the market demanded.
These were all rational business decisions. A market that was formerly owned by the US makes (larger cars) was encroached upon by the Japanese, due to the support of quotas by the UAW. And here we are.
"A market that was formerly owned by the US makes (larger cars) was encroached upon by the Japanese, due to the support of quotas by the UAW."
for that, I am very appreciative of the UAW. We wouldn't have been driving high quality imports now if were not for the UAW and GM and its poor quality cars would have thrived.
UAW performed a valuable function by killing the domestic automotive industry. For that, we should all thank UAW.
Yes indeed, the higher ups didn't play hardball and reign in costs when they could have...they had nothing to lose then, as the problems wouldn't be seen until they were long gone
That says a lot. Those at the top were not sufficiently tied into the success of the company to force them to make the tough decisions. Whether the company succeeded, stagnated, or fell behind, it made little difference to the CEOs/CFOs of the D3. Their compensation was pretty much guaranteed no matter what happened.
If Wagner's personnel financial success were really tied to that of GM, then he and his family should be selling pencils and apples on a street corner somewhere to get by.
Their compensation was pretty much guaranteed no matter what happened.
You could see the handwriting on the wall about 30 years ago when CEO packages started escalating out of control. I think the root of the evil is in the system of board members that sit on several boards. They all interact with a "you scratch my back and I will scratch yours" MO. The stockholders seem to be non participants in the whole procedure.
Wagoner getting the golden handshake was despicable. During his tenure GM lost $82 billion and the stock deflated by 90%. He was President and COO during the crucial UAW strike of 1998. He could have said enough is enough and cut the UAW down to proper size. Instead he kept taking the big bucks and gave into the UAW's strike demands. That was a BIG mistake and GM never recovered till they became a ward of the state. Now WE are paying the UAW guys to keep making vehicles most do not want. This country needs to stop rewarding failure.
in all fairness to wagner, he is one of the better CEOs GM has had. he got the company in reasonably good shape, and did negotiate hard against UAW.
as his personal fortune, well, you can read about his employment agreement before the bankruptcy and if that isn't sufficient to motivate anyone, I don't what else could.
the shareholders are largely to blame for this whole fiasco, in addition to our political class. We effectively allowed the UAW a monopoly on the labor supply to the big3. and they used it effectively, to their eventual detriment.
we have gotten way too comfortable for us to have that hunger to compete against the rest of the world. we blame others for our inability to compete, and we demand more than we deserve.
every great empire eventually declined because of that. I am afraid that we are repeating the history.
While it may be the last YOU buy, $2 gas may have kept the momentum going for full sized SUV's. How many people downsized to a smaller vehicle from a full sized SUV?? How many more full sized trucks and SUV's would be on the road as opposed to smaller CUV's and cars had gas remained stable?
Crying over spilt milk!
The UAW are also blind! Gas prices remaining stable?????
Now that reality is set in:
Relying 80% on BoF SUV's was like investing with Bernie Madoff.
If you really think gas prices will remain where they are, well....
You don't have to point to the sales figures. I know that the market has changed for good. My original point was that has gas remained stable, the BOF SUV market would have remained fairly stable, and that would have helped the SS GM (Titanic). It is true that GM's ignoring of the car market undermined them substantially. But I believe that had GM refinanced themselves ala Ford, then they would be in the same boat as Ford today.
Comments
Thank you.
Regards,
OW
like UAW pricing themselves out of a job kind of greed? or wealth-redistributionist kind of greed? or my money is mine and your money is mine too kind of greed?
yeah, you are right on the money on that one.
the sooner they realize that, the better off they are in the future.
Irresponsible higher ups are the reason behind the entire mess. No debating about it.
There's an .mpg file I have that's just what you described. Anyone know of a way I can post it to Edmunds?
Anything with electronics in it is probably cheaper in relative and, in many cases, absolute terms, today than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Just think of television sets, or cell phones. Remember the big, boxy portable phones of 20+ years ago?
He was paying people 25% and more on their investments. That should have been a red flag. I don't feel bad for those taken by Madoff. They were being greedy as well. And putting your entire portfolio in one place is not real bright. I did not go to college and know that much.
I am also fortunate to have a good Union retirement. Unlike those in the ponzi scheme cooked up by the UAW leadership. At the very least the UAW leaders should have gotten proactive when GM, F and C started losing market share to the imports. Instead of protecting their members retirements they added more out in the future. About 10 years before I retired we negotiated a separate 401K plan in addition to our Teamster retirement. So if for some reason our currently well funded Union retirement went broke We could fall back on the 401K. This was instigated by the Teamster leadership in Alaska with several of their bargaining units. The 401K was separate in a Fidelity plan that we have complete control over. The UAW leadership has let their members down for decades.
I would bet there will be some rude awakenings when the gold plated plan turns into a tin pan plan.
Just like your Teamsters did in Anchorage when they owned their own hospital there eh?
Sorry, but you're wrong. In the auto industry, both "irresponsible higher ups" as well as the UAW are to blame. Neither side is blameless, but neither side is 100% responsible.
I will not discuss the overall economy as this is not the forum to do it. This forum is to talk about the UAW. Let's keep it that way.
I know that we love to blame greed for just about everything that's wrong with the world, but I'm not sure that it really explains very much. Human beings have been greedy since before they learned to walk on their hind legs.
Greed is baked into us. We're all greedy, at least some of the time. I'm sure that Steve Jobs is at least a little bit greedy; his personal net worth is north of $5 billion. But we overlook Steve's greed because his company turns out gorgeous products that many of us crave.
I'd say that GM would actually be better off today if more of its top people had been greedy the way Jobs is. GM's troubles weren't caused by greed - they were caused by corporate apathy & unresponsiveness. GM failed because it turned into something resembling a government agency. Its employees developed a civil service mentality, caring more about their pensions & perks than about pleasing customers.
Almost without exception, truly successful companies are those for which the customer is the center of the universe. Their leaders sit up late at night, trying to figure out what their customers really want. GM was that way in the 50s & 60s but then morphed into a European-style bureaucracy that was mainly concerned with keeping its internal constituencies - the union & the white-collar functionaries - happy. It lost its obsession with pleasing customers, & when it lost that, it lost its competitive edge.
While GM's management hacks are largely responsible for this sorry state of affairs, the UAW's hands aren't clean. Layers of work rules made it impossible for even good managers (not that GM had many of those) to shift direction quickly in response to changing market conditions.
Companies that don't focus on what customers want deserve to die.
Hardly, that hospital and the rec center nearly bankrupted the Union. We sold it all including the big office complex. Now we are in a much smaller facility on Boniface. Thankfully the Teamsters unlike the UAW did not remain on the path of destruction. We invested the money in Palm Desert and have made over $400 million to date on our Indian Wells investments. Funny thing is the Teamsters hired the top finance guy from RCA, and he put the whole money making package together.
Just a side note. Steve Jobs never hit a $Billion until he left Apple the first time and started making cartoons. I am sure his recent hits have been very lucrative. I have no problem with people making Zillions of dollars if their leadership produced the products that made the money. Some people hate anyone that is rich. I may be envious. Never wish them ill.
You are giving the UAW a big pass that is undeserved. It is not only "higher ups" . Greed and corruption know no class levels. To say it is only the top 10% is really naive. Let's spread the relevant blame across ALL the levels that it is deserved.
greed is good: it is what lifted many people out of poverty and put the middle class where it is.
if we had no greed, we would have had no progress.
That's why the act of focusing solely on the customer is the exact opposite of greed and this "giving" breeds total success. It's the pure ingredient.
UAW are greed-centric. It started as a defensive coalition that was overcome by the "G" factor. The products directly suffered for it and the GM and C did die from it (Ford is on life support with the UAW lurking). Of course, the UAW factor lives on to kill another day!
Regards,
OW
Put the desire back in the cars and keep that focus instead of worrying about pampering the union bureaucracy. It's about balance....upset it and reap the result.
Regards,
OW
Got $100K, then gotta have $200K cause it must be better.
Got $200K, then gotta have $500K cause it must be better.
Got $500K, then gotta have $1M cause it must be better.
Nothing good or healthy about that.
Nothing wrong with wanting to be rich. It's how you go about it that matters.
that's essentially how capitalism works: maximize your profit. if you can get $200K, don't settle for $100K. if you can get $500K, don't settle for $200K.
when was it that you refuse a pay raise from your boss?
GREED
–noun
excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions.
Origin:
1600–10; back formation from greedy
Synonyms:
avarice, avidity, cupidity, covetousness; voracity, ravenousness, rapacity. Greed, greediness denote an excessive, extreme desire for something, often more than one's proper share. Greed means avid desire for gain or wealth (unless some other application is indicated) and is definitely uncomplimentary in implication: His greed drove him to exploit his workers. Greediness, when unqualified, suggests a craving for food; it may, however, be applied to all avid desires, and need not be always uncomplimentary: greediness for knowledge, fame, praise.
even in the case of the UAW, I think they did the right thing to ask more for their members - there is nothing wrong with that. if GM shareholders don't like it, they are free to invest somewhere else where labor is more corporative.
UAW does deserve blame for not anticipating how the shareholders would have reacted and choking their members' livelihood to death.
UAW let their short term greed get in the way of their long-term interests.
As for the UAW: It's documented in the 2,200 pages of work rules.
When it becomes excessive, you die. It's a universal guarantee. Ask Berni M.
Regards,
OW
But if you make more than I do for the same job and you are performing at 50% and backed by the UAW "work rules", I might as well scale back to conform. Makes sense to me. Let's make sure everyone stays in line, or else!
Regards,
OW
management and shareholders more so deserve for being too soft on UAW and letting its cost get out of control and quality go down hill.
UAW isn't the only criminal in GM's downfall but it is a criminal.
Just as the UAW has done...but we just get to hear that American automakers are uncompetitive because of union demands, not because of shoddy management and virtually invisible planning.
Just as the UAW has done...but we just get to hear that American automakers are uncompetitive because of union demands, not because of shoddy management and virtually invisible planning.
the US automakers are clearly not competitive because of union demands.
I have yet to hear anyone excusing management for GM's inability to compete.
if you do, you must be living in a different universe.
While it may be the last YOU buy, $2 gas may have kept the momentum going for full sized SUV's. How many people downsized to a smaller vehicle from a full sized SUV?? How many more full sized trucks and SUV's would be on the road as opposed to smaller CUV's and cars had gas remained stable?
"Disruption is the essence of progress. Some of what was is superseded by something new. Typically the incumbent technologies and powers either fight progress tooth and nail, try to co-opt it, or try to at least manage it's pace to something they can control. When too much incumbent power is too successful at slowing progress, that progress tends to move somewhere else."
Sounds like the UAW to me, and the offshoring of manufacturing jobs.
"Just don't automate the plant!" screams the UAW.
There was never a good reason for believing that gas prices would remain stable, & any company that makes stuff that runs on gasoline should have figured this out decades ago. It was obvious long before Katrina hit - that was in August, 2005 - that gas prices were heading up. Prices had bottomed out years earlier - in the 1st quarter of 1999, in fact - & rising gas prices were already an issue in the 2000 Presidential campaign. That was 5 years before Katrina.
Anyone with a 3-digit IQ could have told GM's top brass that one bad hurricane season could kick the boards out from under the market for truck-based SUVs. GM should have been ready with a line of competitive, well-styled & up-to-date cars & CUVs. Instead, the company had to fall back on a line of the least-appealing vehicles this side of the Iron Curtain.
Ford F-150 486,209 in 1999, 250,791 in 2009.
Silerado 396,803 in 1999, 219,503 in 2009.
The GM Clone SUVs and the Ford SUV's will NEVER sell the same again. Yes, there will always be customers, just not a wide market ever again....regardless of the gas price because it's all about the price in today's market.
You hold the same view as the old GM management! :sick:
Regards,
OW
EXACTLY! That's why I'm not angry with the UAW, only with the Gov't that bailed them out! You see, at the end of the day, they will have driven the manufacturing of autos to a new lower price point with much better quality and performance.
Thanks UAW!
Regards,
OW not UAW
precisely. had not been for UAW, we wouldn't have the Japanese who brought us Lexus, Infiniti, Toyota and Honda, among others. and the Germans wouldn't have improved upon their quality from a near-death experience in the early 1990s. and we wouldn't have the Korean here too.
so in the end, UAW's greed worked out really well for the consumers in the long run.
It is only bad for the UAW members and GM shareholders.
so in the end, UAW's greed worked out really well for the consumers in the long run.
Don't forget that it was the UAW protectionism that opened the door to the Japanese marquees building luxury cars and selling them in this country. In the early 1980's, there was huge demand for small economical (and cheaper) Japanese cars. The US automakers (re: UAW) screamed for protectionism. Ronald Reagan bowed to some pressure by agreeing to "voluntary quotas" from the Japanese. Since the Japanese (mostly Honda, Toyota, and Nissan at that time) agreed to sell only x units/year in the US, they up-contented those vehicles due to the high demand. They also added bigger, higher-priced cars (like the Cressida). They also started building assembly plants in the US to be able to sell what the market demanded.
These were all rational business decisions. A market that was formerly owned by the US makes (larger cars) was encroached upon by the Japanese, due to the support of quotas by the UAW. And here we are.
for that, I am very appreciative of the UAW. We wouldn't have been driving high quality imports now if were not for the UAW and GM and its poor quality cars would have thrived.
UAW performed a valuable function by killing the domestic automotive industry. For that, we should all thank UAW.
That says a lot. Those at the top were not sufficiently tied into the success of the company to force them to make the tough decisions. Whether the company succeeded, stagnated, or fell behind, it made little difference to the CEOs/CFOs of the D3. Their compensation was pretty much guaranteed no matter what happened.
If Wagner's personnel financial success were really tied to that of GM, then he and his family should be selling pencils and apples on a street corner somewhere to get by.
You could see the handwriting on the wall about 30 years ago when CEO packages started escalating out of control. I think the root of the evil is in the system of board members that sit on several boards. They all interact with a "you scratch my back and I will scratch yours" MO. The stockholders seem to be non participants in the whole procedure.
Wagoner getting the golden handshake was despicable. During his tenure GM lost $82 billion and the stock deflated by 90%. He was President and COO during the crucial UAW strike of 1998. He could have said enough is enough and cut the UAW down to proper size. Instead he kept taking the big bucks and gave into the UAW's strike demands. That was a BIG mistake and GM never recovered till they became a ward of the state. Now WE are paying the UAW guys to keep making vehicles most do not want. This country needs to stop rewarding failure.
as his personal fortune, well, you can read about his employment agreement before the bankruptcy and if that isn't sufficient to motivate anyone, I don't what else could.
the shareholders are largely to blame for this whole fiasco, in addition to our political class. We effectively allowed the UAW a monopoly on the labor supply to the big3. and they used it effectively, to their eventual detriment.
fat chance.
we have gotten way too comfortable for us to have that hunger to compete against the rest of the world. we blame others for our inability to compete, and we demand more than we deserve.
every great empire eventually declined because of that. I am afraid that we are repeating the history.
Crying over spilt milk!
The UAW are also blind! Gas prices remaining stable?????
Now that reality is set in:
Relying 80% on BoF SUV's was like investing with Bernie Madoff.
If you really think gas prices will remain where they are, well....
Regards,
OW
Not that I envy that, either.