anti-Israel, but when a neighboring country, like Iran, says that they want to annihilate you off the face of the earth, I think it is worth taking seriously, and that would justify a pre-emptive strike in my mind...why wait around for you to strike forst with the intention of wiping them out...that kind of a threat justifies an immediate response from Israel just from the position of self-preservation...
It's the right that's preventing scientific research into Stem-Cells, DNA, ect
That is an uninformed statement. Better check out Francis Collins book from the library. It may open your closed mind. He is not only one of the top DNA scientists in the World. He is also Director of the National Institutes of Health appointed by Barack Obama.
The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief is a bestselling book by Francis Collins in which he advocates theistic evolution. Francis Collins is an American physician-geneticist, noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes, and his leadership of the Human Genome Project (HGP). He currently serves as the Director of the US National Institutes of Health. In the book, Collins describes briefly the process by which he became a Christian.
Collins raises arguments for the idea of God from biology, astrophysics, psychology and other disciplines.
there are 10 rights in the bill of Rights. Then we added a bunch more. How many are paid for by others money? free speech? no freedom of religion? no pursuit of happiness? no liberty? no justice? the jury volunteers..Judges are paid free health care? the gold plated plan that the union workers at my company gets is worth $25000 a year if the worker is a part of a family of 4.
I think I was im my 30's before I even grossed $25000 a year. 24 of those 30 plus years spent in school. We can give half our population such a plan as a free right? Instead of a $25,000 per year health plan, can I just get the $2100 a month? I'll use $1500 for a 3000 sq. ft. home, 370 a month to lease a really nice car, 200 a month for a nice car for my wife, and the last 150 per month of the 2100 for phone, internet, and cable TV.
My neighbors little kids will just need to really well in college to pay the tax bill for it with maybe 45% of their income going for taxes?
Just expressing the thoughts of 51 of our senators
You are joking right on that $600 billion Military budget right? It is at least twice that!!!
While you might believe in the Libertarian utopia of no taxes who is going to pay for the Military, Police, Fire Department, Roads, Schools, in your Libertarian Utopia? The problem with your thinking, Gagrice is you want all these things for FREE!!! :P
Yes, healthcare should be a right in this country as should access to affordable education and vocational schools.
I would implement trade tariffs like our founding fathers that would help pay for this tough not to mention pay down our debt!!!
If wanting taxation with representation, removal of special interest money from politics, stoppage of the wasteful idiotic policeman of the world ideal, something more than a two party system where the same ill-gotten money owns both sides, fair trade over free for all trade, working healthcare and education, and personal liberties all links to Marx and Lenin, then you either mean some old unknown libertarians named Peter Marx and Bill Lenin, or those old reds weren't so bad. Hilarious red herring there.
It's funny that when Israeli leaders make bombastic statements, we are supposed to support it, but when Iranian attention whores blab, it's a crime - when Israel has never been held accountable for any crimes it has ever committed. And some here will support the truckloads of American taxpayer dollars to continue to be sent in that direction no matter what, while whining about unions 24/7. But I digress...
But there are a lot of insane on the so-called right who are detached from reality bible thumpers. This isn't my opinion, it is something that exists and is known around the world. It discredits the GOP tremendously. These people also like to make middle eastern wars some kind of insane crusade, and will at the same time sacrifice our own future for certain states, because of bizarre religious dogma. Why should I pay for this, how is it any better than union abuses?
We have no competitors? Look at the roads, look in the skies, look at consumer goods. We compete with developed Europe and Asia, none of whom have these dogma related hindrances. What foreign policy is mangled by religion? Our middle eastern policy.
Check your facts, per wiki:
"The population of Israel, defined by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics to include all citizens or nationals, but not foreign workers, within Israel itself and in the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, was estimated in 2012 to be 7,848,800 people, of whom 5,909,000 are Jewish"
Seems a lot more than 5% to me. But alas, that's just a tangent, I couldn't care less about Jews or Israel when it comes to labor unions.
Regarding Germany, that's just a traditional name - bears no relation to anything in the US that wears a religious title, just as "liberal" or "conservative" or "left" or "right" there is completely different from here. Germany also has church taxes - something that would never fly here, but it is more about maintaining historical landmarks than supporting a megalomaniacal religion, so it doesn't draw ire.
Well, I did paint with a broad brush, so here is what stuck out to me:
"Get special interest money out of politics and limit it to individual maximums of like $2500 dollars. Criminal penalties up to including prison time for those who violate this law along with withholding where there contributions came from."
That comes from Buddy Roemer a republican who believes special interest money has corrupted our government. Are you a one percenter roadburner???? :confuse:
That was recently attempted- with an exclusion for labor unions of course. Why not let anyone spend as much as they want- with complete disclosure?
HUH?....It was? I have followed this topic very closely and have signed a dozen plus petitions in the past year or so and everyone has not excluded union contributions. I think someone is blowing smoke up your exhaust! You will have to provide some proof if you want me to swallow that hook, line, and sinker.
"I would like to live in a society where religion is practiced at home or in church not in our schools and government. "
That would have made British and American slave owners very happy. Not to mention the segregationists. That uppity Rev. King should shut up- imagine mixing politics and religion!
Dr. Martin Luther King was not an elected leader so that is debunked. Nobody is saying you can't be vocal about your religious values as long as your religious values are not forced down mine or my kids throats! I do not see how that is connected to the British or American slave owners? :confuse: I must be missing the connection?
"Where universal healthcare (single payer) is a basic human right. A minimum wage that pays a living wage."
I think a 911 GTS 2 is a basic human right. Where do I apply?
There is a difference for wanting a basic human need and a expensive material recreational vehicle. Apples and Oranges in comparison!
"[where] unions and OSHA have a right to exist. "
They already do, I just don't want people compelled to join a union. If the unions are so great workers should be lining up to join without compulsion.
The right to organize has been attacked since the 70's and the PATCO strike destroyed collective bargaining. Air Traffic Controllers were being forced to work gobs of over time but the right wingers tried to spin it over an issue of wages. OSHA is a joke. You have pro business individuals running that show. You have the choice to not join a union in non right the work states. It's called work somewhere else. You would not want to work there if it wasn't for the hard fought victories of others.
Republican George Romney on "Right to Work" (Mitt's father)
That first bit should exist with an exclusion for nobody. Groups like the Koch cabal are no better than the unions.
Politics and religion do not work well together. Look at the insane right in this country, or theocracies elsewhere.
Healthcare to a Porsche? Something off tangent again.
If a top few could have some idea of ethics and responsibility, maybe there wouldn't be a desire for unions at all. That's why they were born, after all.
I'd easily say public sector (and we have to include police, highly paid judges and their staff, and possibly even in a roundabout way, military in this) are much more a part of the picture than private sector unions. I have met very few private sector union workers - just not a big part of the modern world. Conservatives (the dumb American brand especially) always put law enforcement up on a pedestal, but won't attack their entitlements.
And if you hate unions, think for a minute why they were born.
What is lame? Did I say something wrong? Please be specific. None of our competitors are caught up in religious fanaticism to the level it is seen here, which ends up stunting us both in domestic and foreign policy. We're closer to a backwards other world theocracy than we are to anything logical. The country was also founded by many men who had some ideals and traits that wouldn't be acceptable today. Eventually, a separation "of" will become a separation "from", and it won't be a bad thing.
Well said!!! A lot of people for some reason believe that if you work hard you will be rewarded for the fruits of your labor by corporate America. That was perhaps true many years ago. Today it is about getting the product or service done the cheapest! A fair and justice wage does not enter the conscious of these executives! To believe otherwise you live in another country!
"Restore this democracy back into the hands of the people"
That is why you need to leave...this was NEVER a democracy in any way, shape or form...it was established as a constitutional republic, because the founders wanted to make sure that every person did not vote on ever issue...democracy may work on a small scale, like a commune with 100-200 people, but the larger it gets, the worse it gets...
Our founding fathers did not want corporations to buy off our elected leaders and that is EXACTLY what they are doing? Do you really have your head buried that deep in the sand?
We elect representatives to represent us in Washington...we used to have senators elected by state legislatures until the 17th (?) amendment elected senators by popular votes...we have the electoral college...if you pay attention, the entire process was designed to place buffers between the people and the government...the founders did not trust the people, per se, so they made sure that the people did not make the laws directly, or else pandemonium would result...it has worked over 200 years...may not be perfect, but it does seem to work...
It works quite well as long as you are in the 0.04% class! The other 99% are suffering now that the elites call all the shots! I have a problem with that as does the majority of the country! So perhaps I shouldn't be the one leaving!!!
As Ben Franklin said, when asked what type of government was created..."a republic, if you can keep it..."
Please stop calling this a democracy...that is the most mis-used term and teachers use it, TV uses it, and everybody uses it, and it is simply wrong...we are not a democracy, and the founders went out of their way to create something other than a democracy...
Well this republic has turned into a corporate monarchy! Our elected leaders are just puppets and the corporate masters from Obama to Boehner have strings attached to them and the 1% are pulling there strings!!!
Further, health care is NOT a right...you do not have the right, or the power, to force a doctor to treat you, and if you feel you do, you may be stealing that doctor's time and skill...you have no more right to health care than you do to steal a loaf of bread from a store because you are hungry...
Well in every other first world nation it is a right and it should be here! With employers cutting insurance and raising premiums on the working class access is becoming unattainable for many. The raise they see in there check if they get one at all is wiped out by increases in health insurance. I know like the good libertarian you are we should just "let em' die" right? The other choice is they can come see you correct after they get out of the hospital. I'm sure you will have the BK paperwork drawn up for them to sign at there bed side! Everything they worked for is wiped out! :sick:
It always comes back to you thinking that everybody else is responsible for your well-being...someone else to pay for your training, someone else to pay you while you learn a new job (yet you are quite useless to your employer), someone else to pay for your healthcare (with, of course, no premiums from you, no copays from you, everything is free and at some else's expense, never yours)...someone else to pay for your tuition...do you even have the sense of responsibility to pay for rent or utilities, or am I responsbile to pay for your lights, and satellite TV???
Now you are trying to spin my words! I have never said that someone should pay for my satellite bill, or rent, or utilities. I do believe in a first world nation the right to affordable healthcare, college/vocational schools, should be American rights. Our country would benefit greatly from a well educated workforce. There would less crime, welfare, and more business created and prosperous if we had some of my values and vision.
I am waiting to see how long before you start whining that someone else should be paying your child support, because I would be shocked if you even see THAT as your own responsibility...
That is my responsibility but I do think it should not be 50% of my net income. The state law in Texas, says 20% but I've been paying 50% for the last 2 1/2 years and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Your brothers and sisters have screwed many people like me over! I guess as long as you can suck the blood out of people like me not following the laws on the books and take that power our government has given you for self benefit why change the system, right?
Please help me understand...where did your mind become so polluted that you see everything in your life that costs over a penny as someone else' responsibility to pay???...when do you, as a free individual in this society, ever become responsible to pay for anything???...or are you so helpless and worthless that you see that the govt exists solely to pick up the tab so you do nothing except eat and breathe???
That is pretty damn funny coming from an ambulance chaser. You ridicule me for my views but you are solely dependent on redistributing wealth from others and giving it to someone else. Sometimes deserved and others undeserved but if you are any good at your job I'm sure you can manipulate the judge and jury to reward yourself handsomely! :confuse:
Please tell me why you see the need to contribute NOTHING to society but have the right to take, take, take from the prodcutivity of others???
Again that is like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? I believe everyone should contribute something. I also believe in a society where everyone has a voice. Yes even in this democratic republic. As it stands only the one percenters and there team of Liars have a voice. They exclude and manipulate the masses into believing there voice will be heard yet our two party dictatorship owned by the same suits win no matter who takes office. Being a well educated individual like yourself I would have thought that would be quite easy for you to see. I guess not! :confuse:
Well if you listen to Fixed News every day like Marsha7, you hear the same lie over and over again. I'm still waiting for Hannity and company to produce the video tape that was going to take down the Obama Administration! :P :P :P
But there are a lot of insane on the so-called right who are detached from reality bible thumpers. This isn't my opinion, it is something that exists and is known around the world. It discredits the GOP tremendously. These people also like to make middle eastern wars some kind of insane crusade, and will at the same time sacrifice our own future for certain states, because of bizarre religious dogma. Why should I pay for this, how is it any better than union abuses?
We have no competitors? Look at the roads, look in the skies, look at consumer goods. We compete with developed Europe and Asia, none of whom have these dogma related hindrances. What foreign policy is mangled by religion? Our middle eastern policy.
Check your facts, per wiki:
"The population of Israel, defined by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics to include all citizens or nationals, but not foreign workers, within Israel itself and in the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, was estimated in 2012 to be 7,848,800 people, of whom 5,909,000 are Jewish"
Seems a lot more than 5% to me. But alas, that's just a tangent, I couldn't care less about Jews or Israel when it comes to labor unions.
Regarding Germany, that's just a traditional name - bears no relation to anything in the US that wears a religious title, just as "liberal" or "conservative" or "left" or "right" there is completely different from here. Germany also has church taxes - something that would never fly here, but it is more about maintaining historical landmarks than supporting a megalomaniacal religion, so it doesn't draw ire.
Well said, Fintail..... Why should labor unions pay taxes and Churches be tax exempted when as we've seen this election cycle they are playing a huge role in our politics? :confuse:
Fintail did you see they are making a second movie about "Atlas Shrugged" the libertarian Holy book?
My brother is a restaurant manager and talks to thousands of people about politics. He can't hardly find anyone who is voting for Obama again. CNBC thinks women should forget that their husbands don't have jobs and instead vote for $10 a month worth of free birth control.
10% are unemployed...they should not vote for the current CEO of our economy. 5-8% are their wives...same
These stats under Bush: 6% are unemployed...they didn't vote for Bush 3-4% are their wives...same
There is up to an 8% swing from this alone. Then there is the high price of gas. Then there is $176 billion a year to pick up the tab for Obamacare Then there is the requirement that voters need ID
Yes, my pocketbook will be much better off with a 1%er shill taking over Barry's reign, who cries about class warfare when anyone questions the motives and actions of the top few. Move over to the politics board.
Anyone who doesn't know the realities of the Bush era ( housing based - false/mirage) economy ought to go back to school and study economics. Gas was expensive during the summer of 08, did you cry about it then?
When you grossed 25K a year, education and healthcare cost nothing compared to now. 1500 a month for a big house, in which boring flyover state? I wonder how much greater your compensation is due to the increased compensation had by unionized workers. It definitely trickles up in corporations where lower level workers are unionized and white collar workers look down upon them for some unknown reason - see automakers and places like Boeing for examples.
Our competitors subsidize and manage better ideals like healthcare and education, why can't we?
Gas was expensive during the summer of 08, did you cry about it then?
Understanding the concept of supply, demand, and speculation. I did not complain then or now. However the top Democrat in the House made it very clear she thought it was Bush and Cheney's fault. So it must be Obama's fault now. Or maybe it is the fault of the UAW for building gas hog SUVs :P
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday blamed the "two oil men in the White House," President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, and their Republican allies in Congress for gas prices exceeding $4 a gallon.
I wonder how much greater your compensation is due to the increased compensation had by unionized workers. It definitely trickles up in corporations where lower level workers are unionized and white collar workers look down upon them for some unknown reason - see automakers and places like Boeing for examples.
The reality is that unionized jobs = higher pay and benefits, but fewer workers (as most companies facing noncompetitive high union costs are outsourcing those jobs). Non-unionized jobs = more jobs kept in this country, but lower pay and benefits.
If one wants to claim they're worrying about lost jobs, then they should NOT be looking at wanting the unionization. That's a ticket to job departure.
So if one is pro-union, quit complaining about lost jobs. If one is for more jobs, quit supporting the unions.
I don't know anyone who will call Pelosi a credible voice on anything, but still...I see an awful lot of complaining about high gas prices by those who were silent in 2008. Those of us who are reasonable know that all of what ails us comes from bipartisan failure, and really the fact that the only outcome can be failure when you have two parties with the same puppeteers.
Here's how I see it - buy a guzzler, no matter your political ideals, and you forfeit your right to complain about gas prices.
Sadly, that is true so long as the endless offshoring by the treacherous class is allowed.
Companies being strangled by Unions were leaving the Midwest Long before Offshoring became popular. Many, Many companies moved South from Ohio and Illinois in the 1960s and 70s.
When you grossed 25K a year, education and healthcare cost nothing compared to now. 1500 a month for a big house, in which boring flyover state? I wonder how much greater your compensation is due to the increased compensation had by unionized workers
Sorry, but in 1977 it cost about $9000 for a year at SUNY Buf and engineering jobs paid about $15-16k. Today a yr at Purdue is $22k and an eng'g job pays close to $60k right out of college. Education used to cost more by that comparison. Both state Universities. Both highly ranked.
My increased compensation is due to 30 years of developing a skill after 20 years of education. Not some thug bargaining for me to get $88k for driving a forklift at Guide Lamp. Salaried mgmt doesn't go for working Sun for dbl time and then calling in sick on Monday to take the boat out.
Sorry, but you need to compare identical schools and tuition rates/programs and identical positions (and required education inflation - ie: lazy HR types and clueless "managers" who climbed the ladder via tenure now seem to want an MBA for everything where it was once not needed), and not only mention one factor I highlighted. The overall cost of living today is higher, which is reflected in the stagnation of real incomes in the past generation.
Salaried mgt also works no more than a forklift driver - walk out during the day for golf, "work" from home when you want, etc, and can make endless mistakes and never really be punished - look at corporate leadership in virtually any industry for proof. If it was that bad, they'd all be walking off and becoming forklift drivers.
Sadly I'm not; I've got over 15 more percent to go...
HUH?....It was? I have followed this topic very closely and have signed a dozen plus petitions in the past year or so and everyone has not excluded union contributions. I think someone is blowing smoke up your exhaust! You will have to provide some proof if you want me to swallow that hook, line, and sinker.
Maybe you should read more than the stuff Gettlefinger pulls out of his nether regions: Politico. Pertinent quote: "But the [Democratic]House bill exempts the National Rifle Association, unions and other special interests from all or part of the legislation"
Dr. Martin Luther King was not an elected leader so that is debunked. Nobody is saying you can't be vocal about your religious values as long as your religious values are not forced down mine or my kids throats!
Opponents of integration did indeed believe that Dr. King "forced his religious values" down people throats- since as a Christian he opposed segregation.. And those segregationists made the identical argument that you are making.
I do not see how that is connected to the British or American slave owners? I must be missing the connection?
Why am I not surprised? See the preceding paragraph. Christians such as William Wilberforce are responsible for ending the slave trade. They certainly "forced their views" on the slaveowners, who considered slaves to be mere chattels and not persons.
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The overall cost of living today is higher, which is reflected in the stagnation of real incomes in the past generation.
Who might be the cause of that? Maybe the high paid UAW building cars that cost more as a result of higher pay. Higher priced homes as a result of Union carpenters, plumbers, electricians. etc.
Salaried mgt also works no more than a forklift driver
They may have been incompetent, but most of the managers over my 46 year career were on the job when I got there and still there when I left. And did not leave to play golf. Must be unique to your industry. Most put in 50 hours plus per week and got 10% over top tech base salary. The reason I never took the offers. I ALWAYS made more per year than my supervisors. And many times I made more than the top manager. I got paid for every hour I spent on the job.
lazy HR types and clueless "managers" who climbed the ladder via tenure now seem to want an MBA for everything where it was once not needed)
That was the other factor when I turned down the supervisor's job at Bell more than once. To move to the next level I would have to get at least a BA. I liked working on electronics with my hands and could not see a desirable future in mgt. I am so glad I resisted the temptation. As lot of those gungho ladder climbers at Bell got shoved out when they split up the Bell System. Timing is everything. Being at the right place at the right time.
Her hypocrisy is quite amazing! She was opposed to socialism like unions and entitlements like social security yet when her social security check came in she cashed it!!!
Opponents of integration did indeed believe that Dr. King "forced his religious values" down people throats- since as a Christian he opposed segregation.. And those segregationists made the identical argument that you are making.
JFK hated MLK. Had Hoover track his every move. I am not convinced the high ups in the Democrat Party did not have King killed. I think the guilt many Democrats carry to this day pushed them to vote for Obama. Knowing he was totally unprepared to be President of the USA. The Democrat Party was the Segregationist party since the founding of the Nation. It was not until 1967 that LBJ & the Democrats saw the handwriting on the wall and buckled under to the Civil rights movement. Which as you pointed out was largely pushed by Christian Churches in the USA. I know I spent much of my youth in the 1950s attending black churches. It was not considered smart. My parents did not care. And they were good Republicans.
Maybe you should read more than the stuff Gettlefinger pulls out of his nether regions: Politico. Pertinent quote: "But the [Democratic]House bill exempts the National Rifle Association, unions and other special interests from all or part of the legislation"
Well I'm opposed to all of the above. They should be allowed to donate but at the same limit as individuals. Currently that is set at $2,500. PACS and Super PACS should be banned. They are suppose to be seperate from the campaign yet the candidates have spoken at dinners hosted by them. So UNIONS, NRA, and other special interest groups should not be exempted from unlimited donations. As a pro union person they should be held to the same standards as everyone else.
Opponents of integration did indeed believe that Dr. King "forced his religious values" down people throats- since as a Christian he opposed segregation.. And those segregationists made the identical argument that you are making.
Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Dr. King was not an elected leader. He held no public office! He was an individual that lead a movement. That is a big difference! I dislike Pat Robertson but he should have a right to speak his views. I do not want our elected leaders to create laws based on his religious beliefs. JFK was a Roman Catholic but he kept his personal religious beliefs out of government. That is one of the many things I respect about Buddy Roemer.
Why am I not surprised? See the preceding paragraph. Christians such as William Wilberforce are responsible for ending the slave trade. They certainly "forced their views" on the slaveowners, who considered slaves to be mere chattels and not persons.
Again how is this connected to American history? What happened in the 1700's in another country like England, a country that wasn't founded on religious freedom like ours connected? :confuse:
Who might be the cause of that? Maybe the high paid UAW building cars that cost more as a result of higher pay. Higher priced homes as a result of Union carpenters, plumbers, electricians. etc.
UAW wages in a typical car during the high wage days was below 10%
Again how is this connected to American history? What happened in the 1700's in another country like England, a country that wasn't founded on religious freedom like ours connected?
Hold on just a second. You have stated you believe it is OK for the Federal government to force the Catholic Church to pay for abortion and BC. That is a DIRECT Violation of our religious freedom. It is the VERY reason we fought the revolutionary war against King George and the Church of England.
UAW wages in a typical car during the high wage days was below 10%
I would bet they made a lot more than the grocery store clerks. Even the union ones. No equality there. When the Grocery stores Union went on strike here in 2003, a top clerk was making $17 per hour. That strike lasted 4 months and they got less than the original offer. As a result of that strike new hires get minimum wage. So how did the Unions help them? Our SIL went to work for an independent grocer and has never considered going back to the Union job. She hates the Retail Clerks Union for what they did. Unions have long outlived their usefulness. Time to get rid of them. Especially the Public employee Unions that are bankrupting our cities, counties and states.
Hold on just a second. You have stated you believe it is OK for the Federal government to dictate to the force the Catholic Church to pay for abortion and BC. That is a DIRECT Violation of our religious freedom. It is the VERY reason we fought the revolutionary war against King George and the Church of England.
I agree with Obama where he exempted the church from birth control. The NUNS were satisfied with that decision. The only ones not happy with it was the Catholic Bishops (a bunch of men)....You OTOH want the Catholic hospitals exempted also and I countered that not all employees at Catholic institutions are of the Catholic faith thus they should be required. If the Catholic church who hires people of all faiths and now wants to be exempted from unions do they get exempted from that also? Where is the end to this?
I know your reason for being opposed to it is purely political and not religious as is the Church. The same goes for the Bishops. 98% of all Catholics use birth control for family planning and/or health reasons. Perhaps the Catholic Church needs to be taxed at 35% then maybe they would have a little less money to be so heavily involved in politics. They have there own house filled with child molestation's to clean up before they start preaching moral values and freedom of religion in politics!
That is amazing coming from a guy who benefited his whole life from them. It is people that have your attitude is why they are in decline. I bet you didn't have that attitude when you were working though and profiting from your union contract. The non union workers doing your line of work were living off of the Teamster coattails but obviously you can't see that. If unions are so damn bad why did you work in union shops your whole life? Why didn't you go work for the non union shop? I'm sure I'll get a lame excuse like always!
Rocky, you continue to go off on an irrelevant rant that is meaningless. If any of those women want BC they can get it free from PPH. This is purely a power play between the Church and State. Obama is a despot that needs to be deposed. He made a deal with the Catholic Bishops in good faith. They unfortunately believed the Lying little fill in the blank.
Which has nothing to do with the UAW. Who are also tyrannical in nature.
That is amazing coming from a guy who benefited his whole life from them. It is people that have your attitude is why they are in decline.
Rocky, I would have made a good living with or without the Union. I would be further ahead if we had not been sold out by the stinking IBEW. Probably near double the retirement I get from the Teamsters. When I hired on with RCA they were non Union. Guess what it was RCA Global that wanted the Teamsters as a Union. They never fought against it. They had technicians all over the World at the time all represented by the Teamsters. It was collusion between the Union and RCA Global. We wanted the IBEW. Those worthless B******S sold us down the river. So I lived with the cards I was dealt. I could have gone back to AT&T with my tail between my legs. I chose to work with what was there. And at times dealing with featherbedding losers was a real challenge. As Shop Steward I did not always tell the worker what they wanted to hear. After 7 years I got fed up and quit. Went to be a farmer right when that loser Carter destroyed our economy with inflation. So when that was a failure I called my boss on a Friday asking what was the chances of coming back to Alaska. He said without hesitation can you be here Monday. And I was. he was also tired of worthless Union workers. I don't Owe the Teamsters ANYTHING. They owe ME.
Dr. King was not an elected leader. He held no public office! He was an individual that lead a movement. That is a big difference!
Come on! Surely you can't be missing something so patently obvious- Dr. King's actions led to segregation being prohibited by state and Federal statutes. His religious views became law.
Again how is this connected to American history? What happened in the 1700's in another country like England, a country that wasn't founded on religious freedom like ours connected?
I guess that you honestly don't see it, do you? Who started and led the abolitionist movement in the US and Britain? Christians who believed that slavery was immoral. And their actions resulted in governmental action that ended slavery. Christian beliefs became the law of the land- and those views were "forced down the throats" of slave owners. Do you get it now?
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Why should they not be allowed to get it through there insurance that is provided to them? Just because they believe in a man written book does not give them the right to exempt every institution!!! :confuse:
The UAW is tyranny? That is laughable! Bob King is a corporatist! Sadly the old UAW is dead!
Come on! Surely you can't be missing something so patently obvious- Dr. King's actions led to segregation being prohibited by state and Federal statutes. His religious views became law.
I didn't know segregation was a recognized religion? :confuse: Again King was not an elected leader! Your theory of comparison has been debunked so give it a rest and take it like a man!
I guess that you honestly don't see it, do you? Who started and led the abolitionist movement in the US and Britain? Christians who believed that slavery was immoral. And their actions resulted in governmental action that ended slavery. Christian beliefs became the law of the land- and those views were "forced down the throats" of slave owners. Do you get it now?
The Christians in the South here in the U.S. back during the civil war weren't really Christians? :confuse: I think history would support me that 99% of people in this country were Christians, no? Not sure about England. I've really never been interested in there history despite having some British heritage (very very small amount)....Hey at least I know enough to know that the Queen of England is not the ruler like some on the right think!
Yes, I am entitled to an hours pay for an hours work. PERIOD. No more no less. You want it all handed to you on a silver UAW platter.
Well neither the Silver UAW platter or the Golden Teamster platter is out there to be had. If it is well it is a very small number who get to see it in this day in age.
Comments
Now what's the truth? Did Iran say that? No!
One man said it. The country did not say it. I bet if you took a vote in Iran, the majority would not support that threat....
continue your war mongering....
It's the right that's preventing scientific research into Stem-Cells, DNA, ect.
Soley for religious reasons.
That is an uninformed statement. Better check out Francis Collins book from the library. It may open your closed mind. He is not only one of the top DNA scientists in the World. He is also Director of the National Institutes of Health appointed by Barack Obama.
The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief is a bestselling book by Francis Collins in which he advocates theistic evolution. Francis Collins is an American physician-geneticist, noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes, and his leadership of the Human Genome Project (HGP). He currently serves as the Director of the US National Institutes of Health. In the book, Collins describes briefly the process by which he became a Christian.
Collins raises arguments for the idea of God from biology, astrophysics, psychology and other disciplines.
free speech? no
freedom of religion? no
pursuit of happiness? no
liberty? no
justice? the jury volunteers..Judges are paid
free health care? the gold plated plan that the union workers at my company gets is worth $25000 a year if the worker is a part of a family of 4.
I think I was im my 30's before I even grossed $25000 a year. 24 of those 30 plus years spent in school.
We can give half our population such a plan as a free right?
Instead of a $25,000 per year health plan, can I just get the $2100 a month? I'll use $1500 for a 3000 sq. ft. home, 370 a month to lease a really nice car, 200 a month for a nice car for my wife, and the last 150 per month of the 2100 for phone, internet, and cable TV.
My neighbors little kids will just need to really well in college to pay the tax bill for it with maybe 45% of their income going for taxes?
Just expressing the thoughts of 51 of our senators
-Rocky
While you might believe in the Libertarian utopia of no taxes who is going to pay for the Military, Police, Fire Department, Roads, Schools, in your Libertarian Utopia? The problem with your thinking, Gagrice is you want all these things for FREE!!! :P
Yes, healthcare should be a right in this country as should access to affordable education and vocational schools.
I would implement trade tariffs like our founding fathers that would help pay for this tough not to mention pay down our debt!!!
-Rocky
LMAO!!!! Exactly!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
It's funny that when Israeli leaders make bombastic statements, we are supposed to support it, but when Iranian attention whores blab, it's a crime - when Israel has never been held accountable for any crimes it has ever committed. And some here will support the truckloads of American taxpayer dollars to continue to be sent in that direction no matter what, while whining about unions 24/7. But I digress...
We have no competitors? Look at the roads, look in the skies, look at consumer goods. We compete with developed Europe and Asia, none of whom have these dogma related hindrances. What foreign policy is mangled by religion? Our middle eastern policy.
Check your facts, per wiki:
"The population of Israel, defined by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics to include all citizens or nationals, but not foreign workers, within Israel itself and in the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, was estimated in 2012 to be 7,848,800 people, of whom 5,909,000 are Jewish"
Seems a lot more than 5% to me. But alas, that's just a tangent, I couldn't care less about Jews or Israel when it comes to labor unions.
Regarding Germany, that's just a traditional name - bears no relation to anything in the US that wears a religious title, just as "liberal" or "conservative" or "left" or "right" there is completely different from here. Germany also has church taxes - something that would never fly here, but it is more about maintaining historical landmarks than supporting a megalomaniacal religion, so it doesn't draw ire.
"Get special interest money out of politics and limit it to individual maximums of like $2500 dollars. Criminal penalties up to including prison time for those who violate this law along with withholding where there contributions came from."
That comes from Buddy Roemer a republican who believes special interest money has corrupted our government. Are you a one percenter roadburner???? :confuse:
That was recently attempted- with an exclusion for labor unions of course. Why not let anyone spend as much as they want- with complete disclosure?
HUH?....It was? I have followed this topic very closely and have signed a dozen plus petitions in the past year or so and everyone has not excluded union contributions. I think someone is blowing smoke up your exhaust! You will have to provide some proof if you want me to swallow that hook, line, and sinker.
"I would like to live in a society where religion is practiced at home or in church not in our schools and government. "
That would have made British and American slave owners very happy. Not to mention the segregationists. That uppity Rev. King should shut up- imagine mixing politics and religion!
Dr. Martin Luther King was not an elected leader so that is debunked. Nobody is saying you can't be vocal about your religious values as long as your religious values are not forced down mine or my kids throats! I do not see how that is connected to the British or American slave owners? :confuse: I must be missing the connection?
"Where universal healthcare (single payer) is a basic human right. A minimum wage that pays a living wage."
I think a 911 GTS 2 is a basic human right. Where do I apply?
There is a difference for wanting a basic human need and a expensive material recreational vehicle. Apples and Oranges in comparison!
"[where] unions and OSHA have a right to exist. "
They already do, I just don't want people compelled to join a union. If the unions are so great workers should be lining up to join without compulsion.
The right to organize has been attacked since the 70's and the PATCO strike destroyed collective bargaining. Air Traffic Controllers were being forced to work gobs of over time but the right wingers tried to spin it over an issue of wages. OSHA is a joke. You have pro business individuals running that show. You have the choice to not join a union in non right the work states. It's called work somewhere else.
Republican George Romney on "Right to Work" (Mitt's father)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLMxVgLkcU
-Rocky
Politics and religion do not work well together. Look at the insane right in this country, or theocracies elsewhere.
Healthcare to a Porsche? Something off tangent again.
If a top few could have some idea of ethics and responsibility, maybe there wouldn't be a desire for unions at all. That's why they were born, after all.
Well some on here refuse to see that! :confuse:
-Rocky
-Rocky
And if you hate unions, think for a minute why they were born.
What is lame? Did I say something wrong? Please be specific. None of our competitors are caught up in religious fanaticism to the level it is seen here, which ends up stunting us both in domestic and foreign policy. We're closer to a backwards other world theocracy than we are to anything logical. The country was also founded by many men who had some ideals and traits that wouldn't be acceptable today. Eventually, a separation "of" will become a separation "from", and it won't be a bad thing.
Well said!!! A lot of people for some reason believe that if you work hard you will be rewarded for the fruits of your labor by corporate America. That was perhaps true many years ago. Today it is about getting the product or service done the cheapest! A fair and justice wage does not enter the conscious of these executives! To believe otherwise you live in another country!
-Rocky
That is why you need to leave...this was NEVER a democracy in any way, shape or form...it was established as a constitutional republic, because the founders wanted to make sure that every person did not vote on ever issue...democracy may work on a small scale, like a commune with 100-200 people, but the larger it gets, the worse it gets...
Our founding fathers did not want corporations to buy off our elected leaders and that is EXACTLY what they are doing? Do you really have your head buried that deep in the sand?
We elect representatives to represent us in Washington...we used to have senators elected by state legislatures until the 17th (?) amendment elected senators by popular votes...we have the electoral college...if you pay attention, the entire process was designed to place buffers between the people and the government...the founders did not trust the people, per se, so they made sure that the people did not make the laws directly, or else pandemonium would result...it has worked over 200 years...may not be perfect, but it does seem to work...
It works quite well as long as you are in the 0.04% class! The other 99% are suffering now that the elites call all the shots! I have a problem with that as does the majority of the country! So perhaps I shouldn't be the one leaving!!!
As Ben Franklin said, when asked what type of government was created..."a republic, if you can keep it..."
Please stop calling this a democracy...that is the most mis-used term and teachers use it, TV uses it, and everybody uses it, and it is simply wrong...we are not a democracy, and the founders went out of their way to create something other than a democracy...
Well this republic has turned into a corporate monarchy! Our elected leaders are just puppets and the corporate masters from Obama to Boehner have strings attached to them and the 1% are pulling there strings!!!
Further, health care is NOT a right...you do not have the right, or the power, to force a doctor to treat you, and if you feel you do, you may be stealing that doctor's time and skill...you have no more right to health care than you do to steal a loaf of bread from a store because you are hungry...
Well in every other first world nation it is a right and it should be here! With employers cutting insurance and raising premiums on the working class access is becoming unattainable for many. The raise they see in there check if they get one at all is wiped out by increases in health insurance. I know like the good libertarian you are we should just "let em' die" right? The other choice is they can come see you correct after they get out of the hospital. I'm sure you will have the BK paperwork drawn up for them to sign at there bed side! Everything they worked for is wiped out! :sick:
It always comes back to you thinking that everybody else is responsible for your well-being...someone else to pay for your training, someone else to pay you while you learn a new job (yet you are quite useless to your employer), someone else to pay for your healthcare (with, of course, no premiums from you, no copays from you, everything is free and at some else's expense, never yours)...someone else to pay for your tuition...do you even have the sense of responsibility to pay for rent or utilities, or am I responsbile to pay for your lights, and satellite TV???
Now you are trying to spin my words! I have never said that someone should pay for my satellite bill, or rent, or utilities. I do believe in a first world nation the right to affordable healthcare, college/vocational schools, should be American rights. Our country would benefit greatly from a well educated workforce. There would less crime, welfare, and more business created and prosperous if we had some of my values and vision.
I am waiting to see how long before you start whining that someone else should be paying your child support, because I would be shocked if you even see THAT as your own responsibility...
That is my responsibility but I do think it should not be 50% of my net income. The state law in Texas, says 20% but I've been paying 50% for the last 2 1/2 years and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Your brothers and sisters have screwed many people like me over! I guess as long as you can suck the blood out of people like me not following the laws on the books and take that power our government has given you for self benefit why change the system, right?
Please help me understand...where did your mind become so polluted that you see everything in your life that costs over a penny as someone else' responsibility to pay???...when do you, as a free individual in this society, ever become responsible to pay for anything???...or are you so helpless and worthless that you see that the govt exists solely to pick up the tab so you do nothing except eat and breathe???
That is pretty damn funny coming from an ambulance chaser. You ridicule me for my views but you are solely dependent on redistributing wealth from others and giving it to someone else. Sometimes deserved and others undeserved but if you are any good at your job I'm sure you can manipulate the judge and jury to reward yourself handsomely! :confuse:
Please tell me why you see the need to contribute NOTHING to society but have the right to take, take, take from the prodcutivity of others???
Again that is like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? I believe everyone should contribute something. I also believe in a society where everyone has a voice. Yes even in this democratic republic. As it stands only the one percenters and there team of Liars have a voice. They exclude and manipulate the masses into believing there voice will be heard yet our two party dictatorship owned by the same suits win no matter who takes office. Being a well educated individual like yourself I would have thought that would be quite easy for you to see. I guess not! :confuse:
-Rocky
-Rocky
We have no competitors? Look at the roads, look in the skies, look at consumer goods. We compete with developed Europe and Asia, none of whom have these dogma related hindrances. What foreign policy is mangled by religion? Our middle eastern policy.
Check your facts, per wiki:
"The population of Israel, defined by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics to include all citizens or nationals, but not foreign workers, within Israel itself and in the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, was estimated in 2012 to be 7,848,800 people, of whom 5,909,000 are Jewish"
Seems a lot more than 5% to me. But alas, that's just a tangent, I couldn't care less about Jews or Israel when it comes to labor unions.
Regarding Germany, that's just a traditional name - bears no relation to anything in the US that wears a religious title, just as "liberal" or "conservative" or "left" or "right" there is completely different from here. Germany also has church taxes - something that would never fly here, but it is more about maintaining historical landmarks than supporting a megalomaniacal religion, so it doesn't draw ire.
Well said, Fintail..... Why should labor unions pay taxes and Churches be tax exempted when as we've seen this election cycle they are playing a huge role in our politics? :confuse:
Fintail did you see they are making a second movie about "Atlas Shrugged" the libertarian Holy book?
-Rocky
10% are unemployed...they should not vote for the current CEO of our economy.
5-8% are their wives...same
These stats under Bush:
6% are unemployed...they didn't vote for Bush
3-4% are their wives...same
There is up to an 8% swing from this alone.
Then there is the high price of gas.
Then there is $176 billion a year to pick up the tab for Obamacare
Then there is the requirement that voters need ID
Anyone who doesn't know the realities of the Bush era ( housing based - false/mirage) economy ought to go back to school and study economics. Gas was expensive during the summer of 08, did you cry about it then?
Our competitors subsidize and manage better ideals like healthcare and education, why can't we?
Understanding the concept of supply, demand, and speculation. I did not complain then or now. However the top Democrat in the House made it very clear she thought it was Bush and Cheney's fault. So it must be Obama's fault now. Or maybe it is the fault of the UAW for building gas hog SUVs :P
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday blamed the "two oil men in the White House," President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, and their Republican allies in Congress for gas prices exceeding $4 a gallon.
The reality is that unionized jobs = higher pay and benefits, but fewer workers (as most companies facing noncompetitive high union costs are outsourcing those jobs). Non-unionized jobs = more jobs kept in this country, but lower pay and benefits.
If one wants to claim they're worrying about lost jobs, then they should NOT be looking at wanting the unionization. That's a ticket to job departure.
So if one is pro-union, quit complaining about lost jobs. If one is for more jobs, quit supporting the unions.
Here's how I see it - buy a guzzler, no matter your political ideals, and you forfeit your right to complain about gas prices.
Companies being strangled by Unions were leaving the Midwest Long before Offshoring became popular. Many, Many companies moved South from Ohio and Illinois in the 1960s and 70s.
And those southern areas still aren't any better off.
Sorry, but in 1977 it cost about $9000 for a year at SUNY Buf and engineering jobs paid about $15-16k. Today a yr at Purdue is $22k and an eng'g job pays close to $60k right out of college. Education used to cost more by that comparison. Both state Universities. Both highly ranked.
My increased compensation is due to 30 years of developing a skill after 20 years of education. Not some thug bargaining for me to get $88k for driving a forklift at Guide Lamp. Salaried mgmt doesn't go for working Sun for dbl time and then calling in sick on Monday to take the boat out.
Salaried mgt also works no more than a forklift driver - walk out during the day for golf, "work" from home when you want, etc, and can make endless mistakes and never really be punished - look at corporate leadership in virtually any industry for proof. If it was that bad, they'd all be walking off and becoming forklift drivers.
...or Romney, or Santorum, or even Obama, for that matter.
An oxymoron in many, many cases.
Sadly I'm not; I've got over 15 more percent to go...
HUH?....It was? I have followed this topic very closely and have signed a dozen plus petitions in the past year or so and everyone has not excluded union contributions. I think someone is blowing smoke up your exhaust! You will have to provide some proof if you want me to swallow that hook, line, and sinker.
Maybe you should read more than the stuff Gettlefinger pulls out of his nether regions: Politico. Pertinent quote:
"But the [Democratic]House bill exempts the National Rifle Association, unions and other special interests from all or part of the legislation"
Dr. Martin Luther King was not an elected leader so that is debunked. Nobody is saying you can't be vocal about your religious values as long as your religious values are not forced down mine or my kids throats!
Opponents of integration did indeed believe that Dr. King "forced his religious values" down people throats- since as a Christian he opposed segregation.. And those segregationists made the identical argument that you are making.
I do not see how that is connected to the British or American slave owners? I must be missing the connection?
Why am I not surprised? See the preceding paragraph. Christians such as William Wilberforce are responsible for ending the slave trade. They certainly "forced their views" on the slaveowners, who considered slaves to be mere chattels and not persons.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Who might be the cause of that? Maybe the high paid UAW building cars that cost more as a result of higher pay. Higher priced homes as a result of Union carpenters, plumbers, electricians. etc.
Salaried mgt also works no more than a forklift driver
They may have been incompetent, but most of the managers over my 46 year career were on the job when I got there and still there when I left. And did not leave to play golf. Must be unique to your industry. Most put in 50 hours plus per week and got 10% over top tech base salary. The reason I never took the offers. I ALWAYS made more per year than my supervisors. And many times I made more than the top manager. I got paid for every hour I spent on the job.
lazy HR types and clueless "managers" who climbed the ladder via tenure now seem to want an MBA for everything where it was once not needed)
That was the other factor when I turned down the supervisor's job at Bell more than once. To move to the next level I would have to get at least a BA. I liked working on electronics with my hands and could not see a desirable future in mgt. I am so glad I resisted the temptation. As lot of those gungho ladder climbers at Bell got shoved out when they split up the Bell System. Timing is everything. Being at the right place at the right time.
-Rocky
JFK hated MLK. Had Hoover track his every move. I am not convinced the high ups in the Democrat Party did not have King killed. I think the guilt many Democrats carry to this day pushed them to vote for Obama. Knowing he was totally unprepared to be President of the USA. The Democrat Party was the Segregationist party since the founding of the Nation. It was not until 1967 that LBJ & the Democrats saw the handwriting on the wall and buckled under to the Civil rights movement. Which as you pointed out was largely pushed by Christian Churches in the USA. I know I spent much of my youth in the 1950s attending black churches. It was not considered smart. My parents did not care. And they were good Republicans.
"But the [Democratic]House bill exempts the National Rifle Association, unions and other special interests from all or part of the legislation"
Well I'm opposed to all of the above. They should be allowed to donate but at the same limit as individuals. Currently that is set at $2,500. PACS and Super PACS should be banned. They are suppose to be seperate from the campaign yet the candidates have spoken at dinners hosted by them. So UNIONS, NRA, and other special interest groups should not be exempted from unlimited donations. As a pro union person they should be held to the same standards as everyone else.
Opponents of integration did indeed believe that Dr. King "forced his religious values" down people throats- since as a Christian he opposed segregation.. And those segregationists made the identical argument that you are making.
Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Dr. King was not an elected leader. He held no public office! He was an individual that lead a movement. That is a big difference! I dislike Pat Robertson but he should have a right to speak his views. I do not want our elected leaders to create laws based on his religious beliefs. JFK was a Roman Catholic but he kept his personal religious beliefs out of government. That is one of the many things I respect about Buddy Roemer.
Why am I not surprised? See the preceding paragraph. Christians such as William Wilberforce are responsible for ending the slave trade. They certainly "forced their views" on the slaveowners, who considered slaves to be mere chattels and not persons.
Again how is this connected to American history? What happened in the 1700's in another country like England, a country that wasn't founded on religious freedom like ours connected? :confuse:
-Rocky
UAW wages in a typical car during the high wage days was below 10%
-Rocky
Hold on just a second. You have stated you believe it is OK for the Federal government to force the Catholic Church to pay for abortion and BC. That is a DIRECT Violation of our religious freedom. It is the VERY reason we fought the revolutionary war against King George and the Church of England.
I would bet they made a lot more than the grocery store clerks. Even the union ones. No equality there. When the Grocery stores Union went on strike here in 2003, a top clerk was making $17 per hour. That strike lasted 4 months and they got less than the original offer. As a result of that strike new hires get minimum wage. So how did the Unions help them? Our SIL went to work for an independent grocer and has never considered going back to the Union job. She hates the Retail Clerks Union for what they did. Unions have long outlived their usefulness. Time to get rid of them. Especially the Public employee Unions that are bankrupting our cities, counties and states.
I agree with Obama where he exempted the church from birth control. The NUNS were satisfied with that decision. The only ones not happy with it was the Catholic Bishops (a bunch of men)....You OTOH want the Catholic hospitals exempted also and I countered that not all employees at Catholic institutions are of the Catholic faith thus they should be required. If the Catholic church who hires people of all faiths and now wants to be exempted from unions do they get exempted from that also? Where is the end to this?
I know your reason for being opposed to it is purely political and not religious as is the Church. The same goes for the Bishops. 98% of all Catholics use birth control for family planning and/or health reasons. Perhaps the Catholic Church needs to be taxed at 35% then maybe they would have a little less money to be so heavily involved in politics. They have there own house filled with child molestation's to clean up before they start preaching moral values and freedom of religion in politics!
-Rocky
-Rocky
Which has nothing to do with the UAW. Who are also tyrannical in nature.
Rocky, I would have made a good living with or without the Union. I would be further ahead if we had not been sold out by the stinking IBEW. Probably near double the retirement I get from the Teamsters. When I hired on with RCA they were non Union. Guess what it was RCA Global that wanted the Teamsters as a Union. They never fought against it. They had technicians all over the World at the time all represented by the Teamsters. It was collusion between the Union and RCA Global. We wanted the IBEW. Those worthless B******S sold us down the river. So I lived with the cards I was dealt. I could have gone back to AT&T with my tail between my legs. I chose to work with what was there. And at times dealing with featherbedding losers was a real challenge. As Shop Steward I did not always tell the worker what they wanted to hear. After 7 years I got fed up and quit. Went to be a farmer right when that loser Carter destroyed our economy with inflation. So when that was a failure I called my boss on a Friday asking what was the chances of coming back to Alaska. He said without hesitation can you be here Monday. And I was. he was also tired of worthless Union workers. I don't Owe the Teamsters ANYTHING. They owe ME.
Come on! Surely you can't be missing something so patently obvious- Dr. King's actions led to segregation being prohibited by state and Federal statutes. His religious views became law.
Again how is this connected to American history? What happened in the 1700's in another country like England, a country that wasn't founded on religious freedom like ours connected?
I guess that you honestly don't see it, do you? Who started and led the abolitionist movement in the US and Britain? Christians who believed that slavery was immoral. And their actions resulted in governmental action that ended slavery. Christian beliefs became the law of the land- and those views were "forced down the throats" of slave owners. Do you get it now?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The UAW is tyranny? That is laughable! Bob King is a corporatist! Sadly the old UAW is dead!
-Rocky
-Rocky
Yes, I am entitled to an hours pay for an hours work. PERIOD. No more no less. You want it all handed to you on a silver UAW platter.
I didn't know segregation was a recognized religion? :confuse: Again King was not an elected leader! Your theory of comparison has been debunked so give it a rest and take it like a man!
I guess that you honestly don't see it, do you? Who started and led the abolitionist movement in the US and Britain? Christians who believed that slavery was immoral. And their actions resulted in governmental action that ended slavery. Christian beliefs became the law of the land- and those views were "forced down the throats" of slave owners. Do you get it now?
The Christians in the South here in the U.S. back during the civil war weren't really Christians? :confuse: I think history would support me that 99% of people in this country were Christians, no? Not sure about England. I've really never been interested in there history despite having some British heritage (very very small amount)....Hey at least I know enough to know that the Queen of England is not the ruler like some on the right think!
-Rocky
Well neither the Silver UAW platter or the Golden Teamster platter is out there to be had. If it is well it is a very small number who get to see it in this day in age.
-Rocky